Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Plains
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Truthfully, I would normally suggest purchasing a Girdle of Opposite Gender, but there isn't a price listed for cursed items.
Personally, I think that cursed items should have a cost associated with them since even a cursed item can be useful.
Bag of Devouring? No need to dig a pit for your outhouse or keep a burn pile for all that garbage!
Cloak of Weakness and Headband of Feeblemind? Perfect for that bounty hunter that wants his target to be more compliant once captured!
Helmet of Opposite Alignment? Let's see if we can reform that Chaotic-Evil murderer!
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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Even for characters with the "Charming" trait, I wouldn't see any problem if the player declared that the character sometimes changed his/her sex via magic. I wouldn't allow the character to do that during the scenario, so the player would have to define his character's current physical gender at the start of the session, when he doesn't know yet if he'll have to influence male or female NPC (and if those are heterosexual or homosexual).
No matter what he chooses, for every NPC there's about a 50 % chance the trait will work.
But: A worshipper of Arshea who takes his religion seriously wouldn't use such a trait. As Dylos mentioned, they believe in not relying on their physical gender, but expressing their "inner gender".
Also, I agree that an item that transforms the wearer's body in any way that the wearer doesn't want should be considered cursed, especially when it comes to sexual identity. It's no mechanical effect, but it still turns the victim into something he/she doesn't want.
If the wearer does want to change that way, there's still a minor curse because he can't end the effect voluntarily.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I see what you're saying. What likely happened in development before it even got to the Pathfinder was someone realized that base item (as a "it's a curse to turn into a woman") was incredibly sexist. And as more female gamers started popping up, they simply rebranded it without much further thought. So now it just switches genders.
I'd agree that being able to buy one of these could have it's benefits. However, I think that what still defines it as a curse is that "surprise effect" as you put it.
A rod of wonder isn't cursed, because you can't pick it up and accidentally turn your friend to stone, or shoot off a fireball. You have to identify it to use it.* While getting gender-swapped doesn't have mechanical (numbers on the sheet) drawbacks, it definitely is a stick in the spokes for a lot of people.
I'd agree with Ross that making the items available for purchase would be smart; I know of at least one person that wants to get his hands on another scarab of death. :D
*Use Magic Device excluded.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Plains
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about cursed items:
"helm of opposite alignment" is a cursed item that only changes a PCs alignment - and yet is a cursed item. It's the fact that your PC is undergoing a change outside of your control that makes it a curse. It can in fact make a PC more playable... it can get a Chaotic PC passed a Hell-knight check point. Just change the PCs alignment from C/N to L/N...
A couple of points:
1. It doesn't state in the description that it only affects PCs... it states that it affects characters (which includes NPCs).2. I realize that the reason it is a curse is because you are undergoing a change outside of your control, which is what would make it effective if you are using it to rehabilitate a criminal. After all, do you think the criminal is going to want to change his ways? Can you imagine being sentenced to wear the helm and thus change a huge focus of your identity?
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I'm pretty sure it would still be seen as a curse, political corectness aside. (see order of the stick. Even though roy was happier getting his sword back than his "sword" neither is something you want to lose)
Wouldn't most women consider being turned into a man a curse? A change of gender is a pretty big deal to most people -- and doubly so if they are involved in an ongoing intimate relationship.
I'm pretty sure it would still be seen as a curse, political corectness aside. (see order of the stick. Even though roy was happier getting his sword back than his "sword" neither is something you want to lose)Wouldn't most women consider being turned into a man a curse? A change of gender is a pretty big deal to most people -- and doubly so if they are involved in an ongoing intimate relationship.
One man's curse is another man's favorite magic item.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Great Plains
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ah - actually I have run a PC that was trying to re-habilitate himself. and I have encountered persons who really would have grabbed the help to reform themselves. So in answer to "...do you think the criminal is going to want to change his ways?" I would say, sometime yes. perhaps often. In answer to "Can you imagine being sentenced to wear the helm and thus change a huge focus of your identity?" I can easily say yes, as I have had a PC that did just exactly that... and fought very hard to NOT have the helm removed (I played a "reformed" Drow in a home game once... who happened to be female and would have resisted being changed into a male character too!)
Agreed... some people do genuniely want to change. That having been said, we can get into a long philosophical discussion about whether or not people are capable of change, etc.
The point that I am trying to make is that for many of the "criminally minded" they would be horrified at being changed in such a matter. Can you imagine a serial killer that revels in the pain and suffering he has caused being forced to become a charitable man that spends the rest of his days trying to atone for his past deeds? From his perspective, it would seem like a horrible curse to be sentenced to help the people he once preyed on...
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
I was born in 1988 and I didn't start playing until the third grade, so ADND is as far back as I can remember. Anything before that is on you lot!
I did say "most" but not "all" people would be appalled at the idea of changing gender. Certainly most people who got an unwanted sex change out of such an item would be looking for another such item.
One question though -- a natural roll of 1 on the saving throw removes all gender from the wearer. If you voluntarily fail the save against this item (because you actually want to reverse your gender), what is the chance that this item will neuter you? Is it an automatic 1 (the least desirable result in most cases) or is it a case of still rolling the save and hoping you don't roll a natural 1?
Developer
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As far as the rules are concerned, gender has virtually no mechanical impact on a character’s effectiveness in Pathfinder*. Instead it falls into a broad category of character details that assist in telling a deeper, more vibrant, and increasingly meaningful story. You may also recognize other features in this category, such as name, hair color, backstory, and character portrait. If your character wants to dye his hair green, be a graduate from a famous academy, change his name from Bob to Bobpocalypse the Destroyer, or have a different picture to show off when doing character introductions, it is unlikely to impact the numbers that you add to dice. Just respect the re-skinning rules in the FAQ.
We want Pathfinder Society to be inclusive for everyone—in-game and out. If you want your character to transition in this way, go for it. It doesn’t cost Prestige Points or gold, and it doesn’t require a cursed item or special boon.
I recommend that barring the use of transmutation magic, if a character begins such a transition during a game, the results only go into effect at the conclusion of the scenario. That’s just to keep one from changing his or her actual gender at-will when it would be convenient.
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WAT? There MUST be rules for everything,I say! ;-)
Ask and ye shall receive.....or close enough anyway.
As far as the rules are concerned, gender has virtually no mechanical impact on a character’s effectiveness in Pathfinder*. Instead it falls into a broad category of character details that assist in telling a deeper, more vibrant, and increasingly meaningful story. You may also recognize other features in this category, such as name, hair color, backstory, and character portrait. If your character wants to dye his hair green, be a graduate from a famous academy, change his name from Bob to Bobpocalypse the Destroyer, or have a different picture to show off when doing character introductions, it is unlikely to impact the numbers that you add to dice. Just respect the re-skinning rules in the FAQ.
We want Pathfinder Society to be inclusive for everyone—in-game and out. If you want your character to transition in this way, go for it. It doesn’t cost Prestige Points or gold, and it doesn’t require a cursed item or special boon.
I recommend that barring the use of transmutation magic, if a character begins such a transition during a game, the results only go into effect at the conclusion of the scenario. That’s just to keep one from changing his or her actual gender at-will when it would be convenient.
** spoiler omitted **
In other news, this reminds me of my home game cleric of Calistria, 'Lola Chablis'. Those of you that are familiar with the musical stylings of The Kinks and the film/book 'Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil' will get the dual reference.
Hidden candy.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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As far as the rules are concerned, gender has virtually no mechanical impact on a character’s effectiveness in Pathfinder*. Instead it falls into a broad category of character details that assist in telling a deeper, more vibrant, and increasingly meaningful story. You may also recognize other features in this category, such as name, hair color, backstory, and character portrait. If your character wants to dye his hair green, be a graduate from a famous academy, change his name from Bob to Bobpocalypse the Destroyer, or have a different picture to show off when doing character introductions, it is unlikely to impact the numbers that you add to dice. Just respect the re-skinning rules in the FAQ.
We want Pathfinder Society to be inclusive for everyone—in-game and out. If you want your character to transition in this way, go for it. It doesn’t cost Prestige Points or gold, and it doesn’t require a cursed item or special boon.
I recommend that barring the use of transmutation magic, if a character begins such a transition during a game, the results only go into effect at the conclusion of the scenario. That’s just to keep one from changing his or her actual gender at-will when it would be convenient.
** spoiler omitted **
So, now that there is an actual elixer of permanent gender change, and thus a cost and rules for gender change is it still free to change genders between scenarios?
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Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver
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If a character has the Charming trait, though, this could change things game to game. +1 bluff & diplomancy to members of opposite sex.
"I look female in this scenario so I get a +1 to my feint against the thug!"
Then, later on...
"I look male in this scenario so I get a +1 to diplomacy when talking to Shiela Heidmarch!"
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If a character has the Charming trait, though, this could change things game to game. +1 bluff & diplomancy to members of opposite sex.
"I look female in this scenario so I get a +1 to my feint against the thug!"
Then, later on...
"I look male in this scenario so I get a +1 to diplomacy when talking to Shiela Heidmarch!"
"Sorry, this thug is asexual."
Charming isn't opposite sex, it's people who are or could be sexually attracted to you.
Also, Sheila is married. "You're not her type" The charming trait is very much GM fiat.
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I personally think the existence of the elixir really trivializes the seriousness of this real-world gender issue by including it. Furthermore the cost of such a thing should be much much higher akin to the Thuvian elixer since it causes a permanent change.
Really disappointed this was included.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I have transgender friends who play Pathfinder, and June's comments about gender being trivialized are spot on. I would hope people would take this more seriously instead of just trying to make light of it and gain some bonus when it's advantageous to them. How nice it would be for my transgender friends if they could just drink a potion or cast a spell and be who they are.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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I don't think that many people would take the elixir to gain a +1 bonus to Diplomacy. Personally, I don't feel that the item is offensive. Yes, it makes it very easy to change something about yourself that, in real life, is extremely difficult. However, RPGs have a long-standing tradition of asking what one would do when something difficult becomes easy. You might say that taking ranks in a knowledge skill trivializes education, or that the ease of gaining physical attributes in Pathfinder trivializes the long journey to physical fitness. Instead, we make those things fairly easy in-game. Why? Because we are bound by our physical selves in the real world, and it kinda sucks. That's why we're playing a role-playing game.
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I'll happily offer to cast polymorph any object on any who require such a change!
I can usually be found at either my residence in Absalom's Petal District, the Palazzo di Incantatari, my palace on Akiton, on the mountains outside Arl, or in the Deep Lodge.
Best to make arrangements with my seneschal, Mitsuko.
For gender changes within the same type and race, the duration should be permanent!
As a fey being, I think everyone should explore both genders - it's very enlightening and freeing.
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My opinion, and this comes from a member of the GLBT community but not as someone who is transgender, is that a potion that changes gender is no more offensive to Transgender individuals than a spell that regrows limbs, cures blindness or another miracles effect is to those who suffer from those disabilities. In real life, all of these things are huge deals. Losing a limb, going deaf or being born with a deficiency can be waved away in a fantasy setting by visiting a local cleric or alchemist and dropping a handful of gold. Why not being transgender?
...also, I am not trying to suggest that being transgender is in some way a handicap or disability. It is 3:00 AM and I just can't think of a better way in my sleep deprived state of putting that.
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I personally think the existence of the elixir really trivializes the seriousness of this real-world gender issue by including it. Furthermore the cost of such a thing should be much much higher akin to the Thuvian elixer since it causes a permanent change.
Really disappointed this was included.
I think it perhaps is a "trivial" cost matter for the adventurer type. One who has bags full of gold and throws it at any problem. Now if you are just a turnip farmer in Golarion, who would like to transition, then that would be a totally different matter. It will require selling a lot of turnips and not spending money on anything else and then likely never reach the goal.
Just like say in our world someone may want to transition, but there is no way thy can get together the real money it costs to do so. Hopefully that point makes sense and I don't sound like a jerk.
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I personally think the existence of the elixir really trivializes the seriousness of this real-world gender issue by including it. Furthermore the cost of such a thing should be much much higher akin to the Thuvian elixer since it causes a permanent change.
Really disappointed this was included.
I have to ask you this then?
Does the existence of Cure Disease trivialize the real world medical crosses? The legendary epidemics of polio, malaria, smallpox, and the Black Plague?
Does the existence of the Heal spell trivialize the real world problems of insanity, paralysis blindness, deafness and the other issues it cures? Does the very existence of Paladins trivialize disease and suffering they cause?
Or is it possible to remember that this game isn't meant to be a pattern for how we deal with our real world lives? That down to earth it's primary purpose is some harmless escapist fun? And that the real world issues of LGBT go beyond mere sex/gender binaries? That there are such issues that no Elixir can bypass?
You make some valid points, I guess we'll see if it ever becomes an issue.
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That new Elixir of Sex Shift seems really interesting, though. I've been trying to map out ways to make use of it in PFS. Whether it be helping disguise my character, or to mess up an enemy by way of "Beguiling Gift", or just to have one handy in the bizarre off-chance it would ever be relevant in any situation.
It can also help your female characters stave off becoming victim to the inevitable, "I hit on hot girls because it's what my character would do!"
At least, those are some of the applications I can think of.
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Oh, I had a question, though.
Let's say I use the Elixir of Sex Shift on myself, but I remain the changed sex at the end of the scenario. Now Rules-as-written for the elixir state that the change is permanent.
Question is: Would this require me to denote this on my chronicle sheet and/or have the GM sign off on it?
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Is the change considered a "condition" that has to be cured or make your character unplayable? If you are hit by a polymorph and become a squirrel, you have to fix that. I'm not making a statement regarding the morality or sociological/psychological impact of a sex change, just evaluating it strictly from a mechanical/rules standpoint.
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Is the change considered a "condition" that has to be cured or make your character unplayable? If you are hit by a polymorph and become a squirrel, you have to fix that. I'm not making a statement regarding the morality or sociological/psychological impact of a sex change, just evaluating it strictly from a mechanical/rules standpoint.
No. A previous post (i can look it up if you don't believe me) said you could freely change your gender even without this item, so I don't see how using this item to do something you could previously do for free would count as a condition to be cleared.
Or in other words, it matters about as much as hair color.
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I had no idea one could change their gender whenever they wanted. I guess it's an option the people don't consider often, if at all. Usually, when someone makes their character, especially if they are "porting" a character from an outside source, they intend on keeping the gender as it is.
I suppose items like the Elixir can potentially help players in-quest with no permanent repercussions, or the need to purchase another elixir to switch back.
I, personally, will probably keep tabs on my character's current gender if I resort to using such items myself.
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I had no idea one could change their gender whenever they wanted. I guess it's an option the people don't consider often, if at all. Usually, when someone makes their character, especially if they are "porting" a character from an outside source, they intend on keeping the gender as it is.
I suppose items like the Elixir can potentially help players in-quest with no permanent repercussions, or the need to purchase another elixir to switch back.
I, personally, will probably keep tabs on my character's current gender if I resort to using such items myself.
darlin', the times Ah've needed to be another gender Ah've always relied on the spell Alter Self... and a hat of disguise...
But that usually costs extra...
In this Organized Play campaign, there's no way to buy a girdle of opposite gender. There's no way to get an NPC to cast a polymorph spell on your character, that lasts past the end of the adventure.There is one scenario where you can specifically permanently gain the effects of this item, which are to be noted on the sheet as a "boon" of sorts. I've seen two gnomes swap genders the two times I encountered the scenario.
What one? i know at least one character that needs to play it
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I had no idea one could change their gender whenever they wanted. I guess it's an option the people don't consider often, if at all. Usually, when someone makes their character, especially if they are "porting" a character from an outside source, they intend on keeping the gender as it is.
I suppose items like the Elixir can potentially help players in-quest with no permanent repercussions, or the need to purchase another elixir to switch back.
I, personally, will probably keep tabs on my character's current gender if I resort to using such items myself.
darlin', the times Ah've needed to be another gender Ah've always relied on the spell Alter Self... and a hat of disguise...
But that usually costs extra...
Ah, however, my dear, the Elixir is another avenue to alter gender; especially for those who do not cast spells. This does not necessarily make the Elixir better than Alter Self + Hat of Disguise. It's just another option. ^_^
I can't wait to see what kind of fun I can have with ANY of the ACG Wondrous Items.