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The Manyfaced One

prototype00's page

979 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Would not greater magic fang do just as well as an amulet of mighty fists?

Save the money.


I present to you:

Batter McShieldbash!


Batter Mcshieldbash 2: I know how the rules work, really!

9d6 damage per hit at 12th level. Enemy is a quivering frightened mess.


Level 6 for Rangers, which is the class I would choose for this build.


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Can't argue with the numbers either, its the best weapon to dual wield.


Might I suggest something with a lot of attacks, good accuracy and two keen scimitars (so ranger probably) with the Butterfly Sting feat


Power attacking Barbarian with a Scythe.

That x4 critical will be one shotting things into your teen levels.


Norrin, Shinji, Sahan, this is in game talk, so please don't read this thread!

So, for those of you who are familiar with Dragonball and Yu Yu Hakusho (Ghost Detectives), I was wanting to inject a little mano-a-mano into the Ruby Phoenix Tournament. There are two ways I could go about this:

Dragonball method: EVERYONE IS YOUR FOE! FIGHT TO BE THE STRONGEST UNDER HEAVEN! Basically this would pit everyone in the tournament against everyone else, in brackets, culminating in the final fight. PCs will for sure fight against PCs in this.

Yu Yu Hakusho method: Team fights. There are teams but the fights are one on one, team against team. If you defeat the entire other team (or they forfeit) then you progress to the next round. If you defeat your enemy and still feel frisky, you can fight the next member of the opponents team, or you can forfeit and pass the baton onto your next team member. I'm actually leaning towards this one.

Of course I am going to keep the ship to the tournament fight with 4 teams of mooks in the beginning from the manga :)

What do people think? Madness? Greatness? Both?

Lay it on me, I can take it!


Edit: My players are just starting Book 3, so I've got a bit of time yet before they enter the stage of history.

Powerful size does exactly zilch for your natural attacks. Believe me, I would have noticed if it did.


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Streamofthesky, BigNorseWolf, Jiggy, Blackbloodtroll, Kazumetsa (though I haven't seen him much these days), Ravingdork, Gorbacz, James Risner, Ohako a couple of times. Probably more to list, I'll add some if I think of more.

I know we don't agree all the time (especially on the subject of monk levels for a druid build :P), but I respect your opinion (really, I respect others opinion too, but these are the folks I interact with the most).


Edit: Imbicatus, 666bender (your replies are almost haiku!), Rynjin, Tels (how could I forget!), williamoak, Rynjin, Abraham Spalding (I'm just stealing from you now, Tacticslion! :) )

TOZ I am familiar with, but haven't interacted with very much, our system mastery interests must not coincide much. Nice to finally make your acquaintance in this thread, though.

I suspect me and Mikaze are also travelling in different thread spheres as I'm pretty sure I've never interacted with that poster.

You are certainly denied dex, but I wonder if you are flat footed as you are aware of potentially hostile individuals in the area.


You get armor profs from the Enlighted paladin anyway (light armor, but thats the best you can still use the Enlightened Paladin abilities in).

What do the Sohei and Brawler add to this?


Did you have her build at the moment? Knowing how her character looks like now, we can give suggestions.


Edit: Actually, just tell us what her race, stats and feat choices are.

Here is the "Enlightened Paladin" (The OGC site can't use Paizo terms like Irori, hence they use other names.


A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature. For example, a fighter could not be both an armor master and a brawler, since both archetypes replace the weapon training 1 class feature with something different.


Both archetypes stack and their interaction is quite synergistic, so I don't see the decision here.

For Hungry Ghost, just think about it as trading away stunning fist for the ability to suck the life-force of your foes later.


May I suggest the Iroran Paladin Archetype?

1: Charisma Mod to AC (this can be an aura thing, really) in light armor
2: Can sense other characters like him (with a ki pool)
3: Unarmed strike like a monk
4: The ability to power up in combat (personal trial)


lemeres wrote:
The best unarmed monk in terms of raw damage? The sohei.

I respectfully disagree. The best pure unarmed monk in terms of damage is a Catfolk, or Human with Racial Heritage (Catfolk) monk with the Nimble Guardian Archetype.

Being able to self buff and turning yourself into a dire-tiger gives you the following:

1: 5 natural attacks on a charge, 4 of them claws.

This is great as with feral combat training, you are basically doing 4 unarmed strikes at full BaB, and you can tack on dragon style e.t.c.

And get this, they qualify naturally for improved natural attack. So bump them up even higher, damage wise.

2: Large Size

+4 to strength and +4 to natural armor is hard to argue with, and guess what, with large size, your unarmed strikes just increased their damage again!

So TL:DR, more unarmed strikes at higher BaB than a normal monk would get, higher damage unarmed strikes (not stopping at 1d8 like the Sohei, and you can buff it with improved natural attack)..

And you're a giant tiger. Just putting that out there.

Or you could just give in to the dark side and become a Monk/Druid like I keep suggesting to everyone. :)


Secret Wizard wrote:

She picked the wrong class.

If you want to be a combat druid, you need to either - a) give up companions for a strong combat domain (i.e. Battle, Rage), b) use Wild Shape to take advantage of the sheer size bonus, c) multiclass.

An alternative is to be a Saurian Shaman, but she loses her choice pets.

A good multiclass option however is Roughrider Fighter. It will give her really good abilities, tons of feats (which allow her to take Horse Master to make her Wolf level with her Fighter levels) and she gets weapon proficiencies to boot.

@prototype00 wolves grow to large at level 7.

I wouldn't have said it quite so strongly myself, but yes, nothing in the druid class lends itself to mounted combat except for the presence of a loyal animal companion.

Though if wolves do grow, I suppose that isn't bad, but almost any other class can make use of that with Animal Ally and Boon Companion.


What race is she? I'm not sure you can ride medium creatures into combat if you're medium yourself. Which nixes the wolf idea until you can get animal growth, and even that is temporary (minutes/level).

Does your friend know that as an 8th level character, she can do 4d8 per attack when wildshped into the appropriate form (Behemoth Hippo) and that translates easily to 8d8 with vital strike?


Has she decided to completely not use Wild Shape then? That is where a druids melee capability mostly comes from.


Edit: If she wants to play a mounted character with a buff animal companion, Cavalier works a lot better. If she wants a mounted character with spells, Summoner is the best at that IIRC.

Roast Pork Belly with crackling, don't mind if I do. Yum!


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Hi Everyone,

My name is Troy Mc... I mean Prototype00 and you might know me from such threads as "Way of the Angry Bear: Bear Fisted Fighting", "Way of the Angry Bear II: Is that Allosaurus doing Tai Chi?" and "The Conqueror Ooze".

But those were all build threads, and I was wondering if people would be interested in a guide to the process of dealing 12d8 - 14d8 damage with your unarmed strikes and biting people's heads off in the process?

I gather there is some opposition to the dilution of the awesome of the Druid with the supposed suck of the monk, but I believe this is a combination where the total is definitely more than the sum of its parts.

What do you guys think? Should I start drafting?


I wrote a guide for this at some point, where was it...?

Ah, here it is

Slightly out of date in that Crane Style isn't quite as good as it used to be, but still serviceable I think.


nthrun5000 wrote:

my two cents on the topic:

1. Make a new weapons by size chart, make it thorough, from Fine to Colossal. Do not allow dice sizes to exceed the chart. Have it cap off. Size increases, shapeshifting, it can get pretty absurd, pretty quickly.

2. Change Improved Natural Attack to be identical to the new size chart. Don't have INA and the size chart in contradiction like they are in 3.5

So what would large/huge/gargantuan/colossal monks (whose "weapon damage" i.e. their unarmed strikes) do when they reach lvl 16 (lvl 11 with a Monk's Robe) and their base weapon damage exceeds that of every other weapon published?


I wonder what happens in PFS? :)


Ubercroz wrote:

Also, important note, when you are getting enlarged you are not "moving."

You are changing size categories. Moving is pretty strictly described in the rules, to wit:

Movement in Combat: Generally, you can move your
speed in a round and still do something (take a move
action and a standard action).
If you do nothing but move (that is, if you use both of
your actions in a round to move your speed), you can move
double your speed.
If you spend the entire round running, you can move
quadruple your speed (or three times your speed in heavy
armor). If you do something that requires a full round, you
can only take a 5-foot step.

CRB page 192 of the 2nd printing. Again this section was not changed in later reprints.

Movement means either taking a move action for the purposes of moving, or a 5 foot step.

There are also clear exceptions to the "you cannot end your movement in another creatures square" rule. Look at someone riding a mount.

I, for some reason, prefer to site to the book rather than the PRD.

So you can end your "enlarge" in someone's square then? Is that what you are saying Ubercroz? Is that or is that not squeezing at that point?


So if I become an Allosaurus, a Huge Diosaur, a tiny bird perching on a branch 10ft above me could cause me to either:

A. Squeeze because I can't push it out of the way.
B. Stop transforming altogether if there isn't anywhere else to go.

I think I've hit a wall of suspension of disbelief here.


So assuming I move before I wildshape (using up my move action), which takes precedence, the squeezing or the automatic shifting?


So assuming I move before I wildshape (using up my move action), which takes precedence, the squeezing or the automatic moving out?


So according to the combat rules:


Ending Your Movement

You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

So what happens if a druid wildshapes into a large/huge creature and one of the squares he now occupies is occupied by an ally? By an enemy? Are there any rules (I'm sure there are) that I'm missing that address this?


Corvino wrote:
There are also no good ways for a wildshaped Druid to apply Dex to damage (that I know of, please enlighten me), while there are many and obvious ways to apply Str.

Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile), costs 4k and adds dex to damage with finesseable (all natural weapons are finesseable) weapons.


Huge Air Elemental, +6 size bonus to Dex. (Also +4 bonus to Str, for the lols).


James Risner wrote:

Fester can cast Strong Jaw:
Cave Druid 7/Fighter 1/Flowing Monk 1/Ranger 2
Wolf Domain Improved Trip
Vital Strike from Fighter 1
Combat Reflexes from Monk 1
Ranger Natural Weapon Combat Style = Improved Natural Attack
Feral Combat Training Slam
Natural Spell
Shaping Focus
Weapon Focus Slam
Panther Style/Claw/Parry (run around provoking and killing them before they take their AoO)

Is Fester a Conqueror Ooze? :)


Strong Jaw is a 4th level Druid Spell, (3rd level ranger, The Samsaran can poach it at a lower level with Mystic Past Life), which makes all your natural attacks (and unarmed strike, presumably), deal damage as if they were two sizes larger.

It is probably fair to say that it is the strongest spell in the natural attacking druid's arsenal, too bad the duration is minutes per level, you'll want to cast this in combat.


Since you want to be a combat heavy druid, may I say the opposite of Blakmane and Dip into Monk?

Spells are nice and all, but a level of monk will give you wis to AC and improved unarmed strike (and probably improved grapple as a bonus feat, very useful for druids).

Or, you could take Two levels of the Master of Many Styles archetype and pick up Dragon Style and Dragon Ferocity for free.

With the right feats (weapon focus (claw) and feral combat training (claw) and the right shape (dire tiger), you can have a wildshape that does Strength and a half damage on 4 claw attacks at full BaB (you also get a bite, but seriously, who's counting at that point?).

With Strong Jaw, you can deal 6d8 + Str and a half damage (thanks to feral combat training making your unarmed strike damage sub for your claw damage).

You don't even lose any WS levels with the Shaping Focus feat!

For wildshaping druids, a few levels of monks makes everything better I feel.


So, mistaken first step, its 7d8 damage, not 7d6.

So 7d8 -> 14d8 (Strong Jaw)

and thats it, as enlarge doesn't work on you as per the Polymorph rules:

Transmutation wrote:
In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

So unless you can find a Supernatural ability that lets you grow larger, you are a bit out of luck.

So the vital strike feat line ends in greater vital strike, x4 damage dice.

So thats 14d8 x 4 = 56d8 while greater vital striking.

If you use furious finish while doing this, you deal 448 base weapon damage (+ whatever other static mods you have) and are fatigued.

Unless you have 5 levels of Martial artist monk, which grants you immunity to fatigue.

The 5 levels of MA monk will also allow you to take Feral Combat Training (Slam), which, yes, allows you to flurry with your 14d8 slam attack (if you had strong jaw cast).

Since the highest damage I have been able to get on my Monk/Druids otherwise is 12d8, the ooze wins that particular battle, but it is harder to pull off (more classes involved if you want to be a barbarian).

Really, this is all spelled out in Ohako's build, so go read that if you want to see how it all comes together.


Except that at 8d8, you are basically doing more damage than any other natural attack in the game?


Improved natural attack doesn't apply to unarmed strikes specifically (as stated in the feat), so that is a shame. Herolab will make the calculations for size and Strong Jaw, but it doesn't replace the claw damage with the unarmed strike damage if you have feral combat training, I've found.


So say you're a druid with improved unarmed strike, which allows you to deal 1d4 damage. You wildshape into an Allosaurus (huge dinosaur). You don't lose that unarmed strike, and in fact since you're huge now, it does damage as if its 2 sizes larger - 1d8 damage.

Woo hoo, right? woo hoo?

But hey, put on a monk's robe and that piddly 1d8 damage is now 2d8 damage, not too shabby...

And cast the spell Strong Jaw, thats 4d8 damage, rocking!

Of course, you could just take 3 levels of monk, and deal 8d8 damage on an unarmed strike (or on your natural attacks with feral combat training).

10 lvls of monk would allow you to deal 12d8 damage with your unarmed strikes.


So say I'm immune to the deleterious effects of alcohol (-2 to all checks due to sickened) due to a cracked gambodge nodule ioun stone. By RAW do I still benefit from the intake of alcohol due to the drunken master archetype for the monk?


Shouldn't this be in Homebrew?


Instead of Caravan Encounters, you can have actual encounters, they really are quite easy to convert.

In the second book, try to have the NPCs show up to help at key moments (Shalelu as a counter sniper when Hekja ambushes the party, Koya with her poison antidotes when the party gets the Hemlock, Sandru when business negotiations need to be made, Ameiko to lend her bardic music in a particularly hard fight, that kind of thing.)

Otherwise you're going to go a long time without seeing them.


Is it within the rules to go to negative strength? I thought the absolute minimum was 0 for stats (and then bad stuff happened).


...Nobody likes the Allosaurus? Best Huge Pouncing Shape in Pathfinder currently.


Ah, very nice idea about the Magatama and Prayer Beads, I think that fits perfectly. I'll post something here when I have it statted out.

Yeah, I like the 1 Royal house as well, it fits Japanese mythology having the Imperial family be all descended from Shizuru. What is your reasoning behind not waning Ameiko to be the Chosen One?


So I am running Jade Regent for the following characters (so Trent, Sam and Edd, if you are reading this, please shoo!):

prototype00's Jade Regent campaign:
I'd like to use this post (and your replies) to iron out potential issues and basically make the campaign more mine (as opposed to just following the rails).

The heroes are:

Norrin Shee - Tien Paladin of Sarenrae and group leader

Shinji Nakamori - Half Elf Samurai and son of the imposing Tsutamu Nakamori (Tsutamu of course is the name of the Samurai protector of the Amatatsu)

Sahan Poshman - Gnome Summoner Dilettante - WWSD? The most impulsive thing possible in each situation, of course!

Rasmus Sorn - Adopted son of Enderaki Sorn and Martial Artist who is desperately trying to ignore the savage dreams of claw and teeth (Monk/Druid (Saurian Shaman))

And while I am keeping the main thrust of the story the same, I have made a couple of changes (and here they are for your perusal/critique and advice) to make the story stronger in my opinion.

1: I have, as homage to the Imperial Regalia of Japan, made three artifacts the Amatatsu seal/mirror of Shizuru, the Sword Kusanagi (taking the place of Suishen, I couldn't resist) and the Jade Blood of Tsukiyo (the Magatama from Japanese lore, though I have not been able to come up with powers for this one, help please!).

2: Said artifacts are intelligent, and quite a bit more powerful than minor artifacts, but this has no in-game effect, as the items have to tamp down on their power so as not to be noticed by the Five Storms.

3: There is one ruling family, the Amatatsu, of which Ameiko is the last. I know a lot of people are ambivalent about this, but I feel it fits the theme better (i.e. returning the last Empress to the throne, more gravitas). For the Well of Demons, I was planning to have them be failed Emperors and Empress of Minkai. Ameiko has to get the approval of one of the previous Emperors/Empresses, but the only ones available are Shigure (who wants his body back) or the failed rulers of Minkai from the Well of Demons (who all want something evil/nasty from the party).

4: Each member of the party has a magic item (worth 4000gp) earned from the vault under Brinewall Keep as advised by the adventure. To make it doubly portentous, each of these items is inhabited by a kami, a heroic soul from Minkai's history summoned from beyond the veil to lend their aid in Minkai's hour of greatest need.

The Armor of General Benkei - +2 O-Yoroi armor belonging to the General who broke the back of Anamurumon's human army

The Ruby choker of Torako - Flaming Amulet of Mighty Fists belonging to Torako Hige, the peerless huntress, both scourge and savior of Minkai when the Oni first attacked.

The Scimitar of Emir Saladin bin Ackbar bin Solaire - +1 keen Scimitar belonging to the Emir of Qadira (and paladin of Sarenrae) who rode to the rescue of Minkai during the first Oni war with his troop, the Brotherhood of the Sun. *More on this later, becomes a plot point*

The Rope Belt of the Nameless Master - Belt of Giant Strength +2 belonging to Tian Xia's greatest Martial Arts teacher.

Basically, each member of the party is arcane bonded (as the class ability) to one of these items and can increase it's abilities with money/time. Having a Kami mentor also helps to introduce the Eastern ambience early and to explain feat picks and spells picked up.

5: Instead of running the entire House of Withered Blossoms from the Forest of Spirits, I am going to replace the first half (2/3s?) with the Ruby Phoenix tournament, for the Ruby Phoenix vault holds the Magatama (where Rokuro Kaijutsu/Amatatsu Tsutoku left it for safe keeping). The Five Storms know and have sent their own team, (basically the last two encounters of the Ruby Phoenix tournament - Gomwai, the hobgoblin monk and his ogre-mage companions backed up by the Sisters Wu, two tiefling scions of the Five Storms).

6: I would like to change slightly the ally gathering in Tide of Honor:

- Instead of three ninja clans, one ninja family, with the ailing Grandmaster presiding over a fractured group, one half following the daughter, who wants to remain loyal to the Amatatsus and the other half following the elder brother, who wants to join with Oni Mask.

- The Emir Saladin and the Brotherhood of the Sun never returned to Qadira but stayed in Minkai to guard against further threats. In time, they morphed into a wandering priesthood (basically the traditional Sohei monks, mounted and swathed in cloth) viewed with suspicion by the Minkaiin crown. The ruling family of this group was descended from the Emir (who was bethrothed to a Minkaiin Princess).

Anamurumon, seeking revenge as a Wind Yai, subtly inserted his bloodline into this family, leading to the eventual birth of twins, one monstrous and one fair. It was then that Anamuruom, leading the imperial troops of Minkai (for he had gained the ear of the Emperor Shigure) struck and killed the ruling family in an attempt to kidnap the twins. He only succeeded in seizing the tiefling child, as the other was spirited away by loyal Brotherhood members.

The tiefling child grew up to be the Jade Regent we know, the other child is Norrin Shee, the Paladin PC, left at the Cathedral of Sandpoint for his protection. *Dun dun dunnnn!*.

The Brotherhood of the Sun could be a good ally, if they could be rescued from the Imperial army's vicious attack.


Ah, but here is the great bit, unless you are playing a synthesist, every point you put into the melee stats is a point less you have for spellcasting.

Coupled with mid-bab and mid-HP and mid-armor, this makes Summoners only about as good as a cleric with no healing spells (clerics are about as good as buffing as summoners are).

So you can concentrate in an area which you will be at best, mid tier, or you can concentrate on your strong point, your Eidolon and buffing, and be a squishy little weak point.

I wonder why DMs don't see this?

Synthesists are a whole other issue, I might consider limiting access to that class, but Vanilla summoner certainly isn't problematic.


What I don't understand about this DM attitude is the fact that the Eidolon has one glaring weakness, The Summoner.

In my game, the Eidolon is a beast, and will regularly tear things up with alacrity. But it manages to go down every tough fight. Why? The summoner gets targeted eventually and goes down, and then the Eidolon will disappear.

I guess it helps that the summoner is a gnome and looks the weakest physically of the group, but still, thats the tactic I've never seen mentioned.


So even though the spell far exceeds the full frequency of the poison (6 rounds after exposure, presumably immediate onset), the saves still have to be made after the 6 hours are up?


So I've just been poisoned by Deathblade:


Type poison (injury); Save Fortitude DC 20

Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds

Effect 1d3 Con damage; Cure 2 consecutive saves

And being a druid, I cast neutralize poison on myself before the second incubation. That lasts for 6 hours in my case. When the 6 hours are up, am I hit by deathblade again, or has it passed?


Hi James,

A very good morning to you, I was just looking at the Shelyn writeup where it says


Shelyn is in a unique position among

the deities in that everyone loves her and
wishes to please her...

And then goes into the various ways that the different deities might want to pay court. I was just wanting to know if this applied to ascetic deities as well, such as Irori, and what form the affection of a deity who disdain's worldly connections might take.

There is probably a religious text involved somewhere here. The 99 temptations of the Master or something.


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