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The Manyfaced One

prototype00's page

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In this case I am referring to the rules governing natural attacks specifically:

Quote:
Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

- In this case you are attacking with the bite attack multiple times.

Normally if it is just a bite you have and you only attack with it once this is what governs it:

Quote:
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

If you flurry with the bite, you are attacking with it multiple attacks per round thus this applies:

Quote:
If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

(Which is 1x str bonus)

It is more a happy accident that that is also the amount of damage that flurry of blows attack do.

I might be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any provision in the ability that allows it to break the basic assumptions governing natural attacks.

prototype00


EvilPaladin wrote:
Quote:
Few people want this feat gone, although there are arguments about how far it should stretch. I am conservative...since I am full of FEAR for its survival.
I too am afraid this feat might not survive. I mean, this book has been available to subscribers for what, a week? And already there are threads suggesting 2 levels of MoMS for pouncing punches. I hope if this becomes a common option they nerf MoMS instead of pulling another Crane Wing.

Oopsie! Was that me?

In my defense, I have advocated/assumed from the start that it be unarmed only and built around that.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hmm, *looks for a "Bonus (Wisdom)" in the OGC*:

Bonus (Alchemical)
Bonus (Armor)
Bonus (Circumstance)
Bonus (Competence)
Bonus (Deflection)
Bonus (Dodge)
Bonus (Enhancement)
Bonus (Insight)
Bonus (Luck)
Bonus (Morale)
Bonus (Natural Armor)
Bonus (Profane)
Bonus (Racial)
Bonus (Resistance)
Bonus (Sacred)
Bonus (Shield)
Bonus (Size)
Bonus (Trait)

These are all the sources of bonuses as listed in the rules. If something isn't here, (and please correct me if I am wrong, the Wisdom bonus is explicitly NOT here), then it is unnamed.

Quote:
Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

The wisdom bonus is from two different classes with two different names (Armor Bonus (Su) and Armor Bonus (Ex)) and they have different effects (dodge vs deflection). They patently cannot be the same source.

I know I'm probably not convincing you, but I like showing my work. Strict RAW, the bonuses stack.

prototype00


The normal strength you would use for the flurry, that is 1x str bonus.

prototype00


Diminuendo wrote:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=385?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Qu estions-Here#19247

You can claim that JJ isn't a rules guy but you dont have to be a rules guy to see this is an unfair exploit. If your GM allows it great, but If they say no dont be supprised.

GMs can rule anything they like in their campaign, from the sky being green to wizards not having spells.

Here, I like to talk RAW.

Quote:
Just curious Prototype, how well would you say Sacred Fist synergizes with the typical Monk/Druid builds in place of/addition to the monk?

Hmmm, not great, unfortunately. Flurry is only useful for certain Feral combat training builds (like the hungry, hungry, hippo) so you could use it there I suspect.

Losing out on monastic legacy also prevents you from reaching the highest (12d8) level of unarmed damage.

prototype00


Really? Link please.

prototype00

Edit: Ah if you mean unwritten rules as stated by JJ, then hasn't he said in no uncertain terms that he isn't the rules guy and the stuff he says shouldn't be taken as da rulez?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Seranov wrote:

I was actually trying to build the same thing: Dwarven Sacred Fist Warpriest

Any thoughts? It seems like we were going in the same general direction, but you're much more experienced with building monk-type characters than I am. D:

Hey, I came to the same conclusions as you did. :) What were you looking for? Moar AC? Damage? (You could make a really wicked wis focused character with guided fist for a Sacred Fist of Irori, but then you would be giving up the damage from dragon style).

Actually, wis isn't bad. You could start with a Monk (Sensei)2/Warpriest X of Shizuru for the Katana, and then pick up crusader's flurry which turns the Katana into a monk weapon, which you can then flurry with your wis bonus as per the Sensei Insightful strike ability. Best part? Not having to take that awful Channel Smite feat to take guided hand.

Now if you are a Monk (Sensei/Hungry Ghost/Qinggong) you are rolling in the ki points and can do all kinds of funky mystic stuff all while buffing yourself as a swift action thanks to the Warpriest. Hmm, start with a gnome, and you even have Zen Koan for days!

Quote:
Question: no where in Sacred Fist does it say Flurry of Blows counts warpriest levels as Monk levels. Several other bonuses explicitly mention this. Is this just a mistake or are there rules where gaining another classes feature uses your class in place of the intended one?

Not that I know of.

prototype00


Previously admitted printing mistake.

Congratulations! You now have a piece of gaming history. :)

prototype00


Apocalypse Cow wrote:


My worry is just a pouncing 7 attacks (focused into 1) with 1.5x str dmg. Outside of the perma-banned Synthesist archetype- was something like this normal before?

Eh, 7 attacks, thats only at around level 16, and the casters are throwing around 8th level spells. Is hitting 4 times worth an 8th level spell?

Basically, it doesn't allow you to make more attacks than you could normally make, just allows you to skirmish with it. The crit thing is nice, but if it is unarmed only, it isn't a concern until higher level.

Also, mistake, its 2.5x Str Mod with Horn of the Criosphinx on a charge.

prototype00


Don't forget, double wis bonus to AC! :)

I love this multiclass combo. Gives you back flurry too. ^_^

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So those of you who have the ACG or who have been reading the forums know about Animal Soul, a feat that lets you be affected by magic that usually only affects our four legged friends. Which ones are worthwhile?

Glad you asked! (*-**** scale, NA if awful/not applicable)

1st Charm Animal, 1st Calm animal, 2nd Hold Animal, 3rd Dominate Animal, 2nd Animal Trance, 6th Share Skin - NA

Why would you let yourself be affected by this?

5th Animal Growth - ****

Gold standard for self buffing, +8 to Str, +4 to Con, +2 Natural Armor, -2 Dex, +1 size category

3rd Anthropomorphic Animal - *** or NA

Might have promise if you can use it while wild-shaped. Otherwise, pretty useless.

2nd Reduce Animal - **

Eh, interesting. I thought of it for my druid to solve the problem of T-Rex can't fit through doors, but polymorph rules nix that.

2nd Carry Companion - ***

Basically makes you a small statue that can be carried around sneakily. Good for covert stuff. Hope that you don't get dropped!

5th Raise Animal Companion - ****

You can be raised from the dead for 4000gp less! Nice!

1st Shield Companion, Companion Mind link, 3rd Bleed for your Master, 3rd Hunter's Friend - NA

Unless you are someone else's animal companion, doesn't apply to you

2nd Wartrain Mount, 2nd Animal Purpose Training - NA

Hopefully you already know all this stuff!

4th Atavism - ****

Ooh, nice! Advanced simple template gives +2 bonus on all rolls, including damage rolls and special ability DCs, a +4 bonus to AC and CMD, and +2 hit points per HD. If you aren't high level enough for animal growth... *Actually this would affect druids that have wildshaped, while animal growth wouldn't, thats nice.*

2nd Scamper - ***

Short buff to boost your combat acrobatics use. Not too bad.

2nd Sea Steed - ***

Nice 10min/lvl buff to make you perfect for aquatic campaigns.

4th Sea Stallion - ***

Buff for you and the guy who is riding you. (Wait, that sounded wrong...)

3rd Sky Steed - *

Why would you need this instead of Fly or Wind Walk at the same level? And its a Paladin spell, even worse!

2nd Companion Life Link - *

This is basically Deathwatch? Meh.

2nd Shield Companion - *

Basically Shield Other, for animals.

5th Awaken - NA or ************

This is so stupid good that it is either going to be errataed out or DMs will ban it. If your DM allows it, the right thing to do would be to read out the spell description to him before he makes the mistake.

And there you have it! Treats for everyone!

prototype00


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite.

So, what if I told you that the class most complimentary to the Monk in the ACG is not the Brawler (gosh no, never mix Brawler and monk*), but the Warpriest?

Specifically the Sacred Fist Archetype. Here are the pros:

1. It gives you flurry, which if you traded it away for something from monk (such as going MoMS, highly recommended by the way!) is basically free full BaB attacking, nice!

2. Wisdom to AC twice. No two ways about it, the wisdom to AC stacks by RAW (one is from an Ex ability and one is from a Su ability and both are unnamed, the very definition of things that stack). This is worth it by itself to dip monk.

3. Spells and Swift action buffing from Warpriest. While boosting that wisdom, why not boost your spells/day and your ability to cast them?

A simple beginning build would be as follows:

1. Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 1: Free Feat - Pick up that flurrying and go to town. Full BaB for the win!
2. Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 2: - Fervor, for great justice!
3. Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 2/ Monk 1: Dragon Style / Pummeling Style - Fuse those Styles! Fuse them!
4. Warpriest 2/ Monk 2: Pummeling Charge - Basically the apex of your 1st 5 levels
5. Warpriest 3/ Monk 2: Dragon Ferocity - So much damage!

Later you can pick up Janni Style (double the unarmed damage when you charge) and Horn of the Criosphinx (Double the strength! Well more accurately 2.5x the Strength). And probably style master, since you are going to get a couple more style feats for free.

I'd mostly keep going with Warpriest levels, since you get ki points and spells from it.

prototype00

*Well, actually it might be good, but I haven't given it much thought.


Hmm, or for a Scout Rogue, a much easier way than dazzling display/shatter defenses to get a foe flat-footed for a full attack.

prototype00


My money is on MoMS 2/ Warpriest (Sacred Fist) X

prototype00


Hmm, I'm wondering if all the attacks made by someone using pummeling charge are regarded as being made on a charge? Would they all benefit from Janni Rush for example?

prototype00


David knott 242 wrote:

I think he gets the wisdom bonus just once, but the class level based parts of the bonuses should stack since one is a deflection bonus and one is untyped. Note that if you take enough Sacred Fist Warpriest levels, you will have no use for a Ring of Protection.

Why would the wisdom bonuses not stack? They are both unnamed and originate from different sources.

Prototype00


Shizuru with a katana is the gold standard for some. Especially if you multiclass monk for a hungry ghost.

Prototype00


Redblade8 wrote:
prototype00 wrote:

I've been thinking quite a bit about the Sacred Fist Archetype recently, both because it has good synergy with monk multiclass (2x wis to AC, gives you flurry if you gave it up for MoMS or Sensei).

I'm no great shakes at other stuff, but monk stuff I'm pretty decent at, and the Sacred Fist Archetype is a great divine empowered monk (good job Paizo, its basically all I wanted).

prototype00

Prototype, I'm a bit too scattered to think clearly about it right now, but do you think there's any way a Sacred Fist makes for an alternate/easier entry into Champion of Irori?

Ghorrin Redblade

Requires Still Mind, unfortunately, which is a Monk only preserve. Also doesn't get Channel Energy until 4th lvl, which is not as good as a cleric dip.

prototype00


I've been thinking quite a bit about the Sacred Fist Archetype recently, both because it has good synergy with monk multiclass (2x wis to AC, gives you flurry if you gave it up for MoMS or Sensei).

I'm no great shakes at other stuff, but monk stuff I'm pretty decent at, and the Sacred Fist Archetype is a great divine empowered monk (good job Paizo, its basically all I wanted).

prototype00


JoeJ wrote:
prototype00 wrote:
Eigengrau wrote:
prototype00 wrote:

15-20 crit chance with improved critical/keen for the katana, damage based entirely off dex. I'm sure thats not terrible.

prototype00

You're absolutely right, that's perfect for the class features. Does it fit the flavor? Not really for the European Swashbuckling type.

Well, you're not Inigo Montoya then, you're Sasaki Kojiro Ganryu, I see them both as the panache-y fencing types (as opposed to Musashi, who was a real Kill You Dead Samurai and/or Ranger type).

prototype00

But what if I want to be Inigo Montoya?

Then whats stopping you from using the best Rapier fashioned by mortal hands? Are you not the student of the Best Swordsmen the world over? Will not Count Rugen die with your taunt ringing in his ears?

Are you not the WIZARD OF FENCING, undefeatable in this world of the blade?

prototype00


Eigengrau wrote:
prototype00 wrote:

15-20 crit chance with improved critical/keen for the katana, damage based entirely off dex. I'm sure thats not terrible.

prototype00

You're absolutely right, that's perfect for the class features. Does it fit the flavor? Not really for the European Swashbuckling type.

Well, you're not Inigo Montoya then, you're Sasaki Kojiro Ganryu, I see them both as the panache-y fencing types (as opposed to Musashi, who was a real Kill You Dead Samurai and/or Ranger type).

prototype00


15-20 crit chance with improved critical/keen for the katana, damage based entirely off dex. I'm sure thats not terrible.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, one is from a supernatural source (SU) and grants deflection bonuses in addition to the wisdom bonus and the other is from an Extraordinary source (EX) and grants dodge bonuses in addition to the wisdom bonus, so its a bit hard to argue that they won't stack since they come from the same source.

So for me they stack, but I'll faq it as well.

prototype00


Hmm, there is a lot to be said for Monk (Hungry Ghost/Qinggong) / /Warpriest (Sacred Fist) *Shizuru for the repose domain*.

You get to flurry at your full BaB (so you're basically an unarmored fighter with spells), 2x wis to AC (2 different sources, one is Ex with dodge bonuses and the other is Su with deflection bonuses).

Ack! You lose your katana proficiency, so you'll have to drop a feat on EWP (Katana).

Ah well, a lot to like.

prototype00


Hmm, would the Sacred Fist Warpriest archetype flurry of blows and increased unarmed damage stack with levels of monk I wonder...?

prototype00


So 4 levels of hospitaler to qualify for guided hand and then transition into CoI, its great if you have the patience for it (or start at a higher level)! Otherwise, looks fine, where is your cloak of protection +5 for basically unbeateable saves?

Oh, and Crane's wing isn't as good these days, but you'll still take it so you can fight defensively with Osyluth guile. Le sigh. (Dude, where is your Osyluth Guile?)

prototype00


Which archetypes did I mention that trade away Still Mind? I thought I was careful about that. If I included any that was a mistake.

Prototype00

Oh wait, sorry you meant mention the ones that trade it away? I was rather banking on people reading the pre-reqs themselves and making the right decision (lazy I guess)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, with the upcoming release of Unchained, more sacred cows like this can be led to the slaughter as far as I am concerned.

You won't miss them when they're gone.

prototype00


Its another level of 0 BaB with some 1st level spells to show for it. AC will be okay due to sidestep secret. Your party is definitely going to have to carry you for a bit.

prototype00


The damage will be mostly with your smite (though with 30 points, you can certainly pump strength a bit) and with Eldritch heritage (orc) to boost strength.

Low gold will be a problem, since Ring of Ki Mastery and being unarmored will both be gold intensive. I'm not quite sure how to fix that.

prototype00


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:

I have a mini-conqueror-ooze build that gives some new options to a casting druid.

Cave Druid 5/Bbn1/Druid X
07 natural spell
09 Vital Srike
11 Furious Finish
15 Improved Vital Strike
Taking the cave domain will give you the ability to give yourself darkvision in 1 hour increments and tremorsense at 6th(7th).

The conqueror ooze (much as I would hate to admit it), works just as well without monk levels as it does with. If you find some other way to rage-cycle, then more power to you.

The monk just happens to allow you to flurry with the 21d8 slam attack, (which isn't nothing) and adds some base land speed.

prototype00


Taenia wrote:

One way I would turn this around, can you use enlarge person spell on a wild shaped druid. The polymorph rules say,

"In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell."

A druid's wild shape ability is supernatural and not a spell. I think it may be the same logic flipped around.

That is a fair question, Taenia, one that I don't have the answer to. Personally I hope it works for theorycraft reasons, but fair enough if it doesn't.

prototype00


insaneogeddon wrote:
Just a life observation mind you - Bullies are bullies no matter how they skin it with farcical attempts at philosophy or verbosity.

*sigh* Look, if there are any ruffled feathers or hurt feelings for either yourself or Chris van horn or David Bross, then I am sorry and I sincerely apologise. I've not been called a bully many times in my life (or any time that I can recall save this one), but if you say so, I believe it and you (or they) deserve an apology. Not that its a defense, but your initial post was quite derogatory, and perhaps that set my teeth on edge.

The issue is I feel the points you all are trying to raise are more rule questions (should the ooze have a 7d8 slam? Should the slam damage be based on a su or ex ability rather than as part of the natural attack itself?) than advice question (and Advice is a theorycraft forum, make no mistake. Stuff comes out of here that makes all DMs wish that they were wearing their brown pants).

Please post as many times as you want in the rules forums so that you can to get the issue faqqed. (though I have not seen that many, or any since this thread, so I had logged it as not a concern.)

With that I conclude my argument with you, and wish you a good summer.

prototype00


Thats fair enough, wraithstrike, and the RAW supports it, really.

prototype00


Did you pop in to defend the viewpoints of two posters who had graciously bowed out of the thread when I politely asked them to take non RAW arguments elsewhere (Not least a bloody year ago?!)

If so, good show! I applaud your reading comprehension!

prototype00


I see your point, Taenia, but that doesn't change the fact that the whole effect, RAW, is a supernatural ability, and not a spell.

Like would it be subject to spell resistance, do you think?

prototype00


So in the case of when it is in the natural attack alone (like say for Immortal Ichor) then it would be fine?

prototype00


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hi All,

If I polymorph into a creature that deals stat drain/damage with their natural attacks, do I get to do the same?

Also, if I used vital strike, would I be able to do double that stat drain/damage?

prototype00


Taenia wrote:

If you take the Eagle Domain you get to very useful spells for your Ooze, Fly and Overland Flight.

This can mitigate a majority of the movement problems associated with the Ooze and let you take the fight to sky with Flying Ooze.

Druids already get the quite excellent Air Walk spell, and as stated below, the Growth subdomain has quite a bit more to add to the mix than just the ability to fly (like the ability to one-shot Treerazer with 672 damage in a single Slam).

Quote:
Also Bestiary 4 had the Immortal Ichor a medium ooze with a 6d6 Slam that also does 1d3 Wis Drain (yes drain) and a 20' fly speed. Little less damage but with vital strike it could do 2d3 wis drain if you want to make your GM go HUH? Also had Acid and Electricity immunity and Cold Resist for when you get to Beast Shape 4 with your Ooze.

I'm curious as to whether the drain is included as part of the "damage" of a natural attack as pertains to Beast Shape spells. (or polymorph spells in general) It is something I might raise in the rules forum.

Concerning the Growth Subdomain I defer to Imbicatus' argument.

Quote:
RAW, it's a supernatural ability, not a Spell-like or a Spell. RAW, you can use growth while polymorphed. I have no idea if that was intended, I can see arguments for it either way. Personally, I think it SHOULD work, as the growth domain is limited, and you have very few uses per day of being larger.

Its a Supernatural ability that mimics a spell, thus it is not considered a spell/spell like ability and can be used on a polymorphed creature.

prototype00


Aww, your GMs no fun then. :p

Prototype00


Jade Regent does a good job transitioning from medieval swords and sorcery to Viking sagas (with some added eastern spice) to northern (ie North Pole literally)wilderness/First Nations myth making all culminating in an epic struggle for the heart, soul and throne of fantasy Japan.

That's some road trip.

Prototype00


Ever consider the "hungry, hungry hippo" build? It revolves around massive damage with a single attack using the behemoth hippo's 4d8 bite, which becomes 16d8 with greater vital strike (or 32d8 with strong jaw, or guaranteed 256+ static mods damage with rage cycling and furious finish)?

Prototype00


17 people marked this as a favorite.

Hmm, Advanced Class Guide with rare cover printing error?

Hold onto your copies, people. Could become a collectible in 20 years. :)

prototype00


Except for this little bit in the Enlarge person description:

Quote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

There is no other magical effect that increases size for the conqueror ooze (the carnivorous crystal is a medium ooze), so this would affect it no problem (not being a spell that increased size).

prototype00


I appreciate your enthusiasm Dinosaur!

Though it does seem that there are only a few of you who wanted a guide.

Ah heck, I've been meaning to do it anyway, and I've got a couple of hours of plane journeying ahead of me, so might as well fill them with something.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You are completely right Imbicatus, the Growth subdomain power only acts like enlarge person, and isn't actually a spell.

Hmm, well thats the final piece of my Conqueror Ooze puzzle:

Base Damage - 7d8
Strong Jaw - 14d8
One Actual Size increase - 21d8
Greater Vital Strike - 84d8
Furious Finish - 672 damage + static mods. (Probably ends up around 700+)

One hit TKOs on Treerazer and The Tarrasque, two hits for Cthulhu.

Not bad.

prototype00


That is a good catch except for the part where it affects you like the enlarge person spell.

Prototype00


So while under the effect of a polymorph effect, you aren't affected by spells/spell like abilities that affect size.

Are there any Su effects (supernatural) effects that a PC could feasibly get that increases size then? My cursory examination has not revealed any.

Prototype00


Kyudoka wrote:
1. I am thinking you can 'manufacture' any incidents you want during the AP because the Five Storms (and Amumurumon in particular) are such masters at manipulation. Maybe even have one of the 'caravan' npcs be a planted informant. No reason not to up the paranoia level for the players :)

Quite true. I'm thinking of making Prince Batsaikhar's first minister Chua a Five Storms Oni (an ogre mage probably). That way, he can lead the party astray, while whispering corrupting advice to the Prince.

Quote:
2. Historically (there's an ironic term), ninjas gave up all family ties when they were taken in by a clan. The ninja clan became their 'family'. So Miyaro could be a favoured student of the ninja grandmaster or maybe she's highly respected amongst all the ninja. I do like where you're going with this idea!

In this case, I am going with the Basilisk ninja clans, like the Iga and the Koga (who were historical as well!), who sure enough, took in the poor and destitute to train into fearsome stealth warriors, but at the top was a talented bloodline that provided the leadership.

In Minkai, as with all things in Jade Regent, this is falling into chaos, as the Ninja Grandmaster was poisoned (and is currently slowly dying) by Oni-Mask, his son fallen in with the Jade Regent to seek revenge on the oni mask ninjas(not knowing that oni-mask is an appendage of the Regent), and the grand-daughter, loyal to their previous masters, the Amatatsu Emperors seeking out rumours of a lost heir returning to claim her inheritance.

Perhaps the unwitting Gaijin have it in their power to right the things that are out of order? (I figure the Amatatsu Seal might be able to heal the Grandmaster, but what if Oni-Mask decide to attack at the inopportune moment?).

Quote:

3. I like where you're going with this, though I have gone a different route myself. You're leaning towards that Star Wars feel, too. Doesn't this AP just cry for that? Onis, fiendish blood, foreigners, allies, rebels and all the other factions just call for betrayals, spies, informants and help from unexpected places. A truly epic story arc in the making. I can't wait to run this AP :)

I'm thinking Norrin needs to find out early on that Amumurumon is her father, just for the pathos and to give her a campaign quest :) Don't forget to have rumours and cut scenes detailing just how much of an evil bad a** her father is...

Thank you, I must say this is my favorite AP, for all that I'm putting in a couple of improvements.

I was thinking that Norrin might find the truth of his heritage in drips and drabs (I've had oni foes commenting that he had the "Blood of the Founder" and ask why he fights them, as well as the spirit of Kusanagi commenting that his blood is tainted.), culminating in the big reveal in the part of the House of Withered Blossoms that I'm leaving in (the last two levels, mostly) *though I haven't figured out how to reveal it to him as yet... I'm leaning towards Munasukaru taunting him with the knowledge. *

prototype00


Hmm, just updating with more changes I am considering...

1. The Oni are master manipulators, why not have them stoke Prince Batsaikhar's desire for one of the NPCs (or PCs), and stage an ambush on the last day of the feast after he has been turned down? A stand-off of sorts with a level appropriate encounter of Ordu-Aganhei's finest (mostly mooks, Batsaikhar is a bit of a blow-hard, but with the bodyguard Izume being a legitimate threat).

2. With the slightly reduced role of Miyaro as a guide to the forest of spirits, and the possibly increased role of the ninjas in the Tide of Honor book, perhaps she could be the daughter of the Ninja Grandmaster? In which case, her interference would be non-lethal, as she strives to subdue her wayward brother/sister ninja, before the party kills them. PCs who can speak Tien hear the ninjas refer to her as Ojou-sama before they are knocked unconscious.

3. Seranrae is the goddess of mercy and compassion, why not make the dark oni blood of the PC (Norrin Shee, the paladin of Seranrae) part of a redemptive story? The half-fiend daughter of Anamurumon could clash with the Emir Saladin, attempting to free her father, only to be redeemed by his/Seranrae's compassion. They wed, and the tainted blood flows within the bloodline of the leader of the "Warriors of the Sun"

Even more reason for the native Minkaiains to be suspicious of them! (leading to Emperor Shigure to order a purge of their numbers, a purge that Anamurumon, in his guise as first minister, was more than happy to carry out)

a: They are strange foreigners.
b: They practice a sun worshipping religion that is distinctly not Shizuru, the heretics!
c: Their leadership is said to have demonic features!
and of course d: They are powerful warriors and might be a powerful faction that opposes the throne of Minkai, it doesn't help that they seem to adhere to their own agenda (oni slaying) that sets them apart from the rest of Minkai.

As usual, I am interested to hear your thoughts.

prototype00

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