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Lets use the proper terminology here, which should clear things up.
Beast Shape III is an Actual size increase. You are actually becoming a huge creature.
Strong Jaw is an Effective size increase, you deal damage As If you were two sizes larger...
According to this line in the faq:
However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).
They (as you so kindly provided the proper terminology for, Diego) Explicitly work together.
That's good advice - hadn't considered Power Attack via Quinggong. Does that satisfy the pre-req?
Yes, but apparently only when you activate power attack. For a build that will be using Rhino charge every round, I'd say pick up Power attack legit.
Also, does a Warcat officially count as a feline for purposes of this build?
It is apparently a legit animal and has CAT in its name. I don't know what else you could ask for?
I hashed out a build, and it was mostly like yours except for the following:
1: I took Multiattack at 7th and Feral Combat trining at 5th. Janni Rush and Janni Style I took as bonus style feats so that I didn't have to bother about pre-reqs. (Dragon style and Janni Style are really enough to carry you in this build)
2: I picked up Power attack as a bonus Qinggong feat/power, using that to qualify for Improved Bull Rush and Rhino Charge at 12th level (had to leave Horn of the Criosphinx for 13th level), charging every round is really good for this character.
That said, well done on a streamlined and well made build.
Just take the "Catfolk Exemplar" feat (sub out Toughness for it), this grants you the Sharp Claws Racial Trait which gives you always on claws.
Warcat is the only huge feline out there, but it doesn't have rake attacks, so choose to be huge or to be large as a dire tiger with rake claws.
Edit: Ever considered Improved Bull Rush/Rhino Charge? It lets you ready a charge (which you can pounce and full attack on, and proc Janni Strike).
1. Pounce at a target (full round action)
Ed Reppert wrote:
... Not the Justice or Truth part? There are entire paladin concepts that revolve around one or the other.
But hey, who am I to say what you think a paladin should or should not do.
I just know by the book:
1. Irori's alignment does not bar paladins.
And thus far, if you will excuse my bluntness, the only argument you have been able to provide is board hearsay.
Seriously, please drink the water, horse.
Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. I was wondering the other day about Paladins of Irori. ISTR reading somewhere that being neutral wrt good and evil, Irori doesn't much care about the good end of that spectrum. I don't remember whether I read it or just inferred it, but I came away from that with the impression that Irori does not support paladins. Also, I see no mention of paladins in Irori's entry in Inner Sea Gods or Faiths of Balance or Champions of Balance. OTOH I seem to remember a thread on the messageboards somewhere which asserted that Irori does support paladins. Besides, it would seem odd, at least, for a character to use "paladin of somebody else" to meet the paladinish requirements to become a champion of Irori. So what's the real skinny? Reference, please. "Of course Irori supports paladins" isn't much help. :-)
Just reference Paths of Prestige Under Champion of Irori. It specifically talks about a subset of Irori adherents that "focus on embodying and promulgating the virtues of hard work, discipline, and devotion to the cause of justice, truth, and he pursuit of perfection."
No need to refer to a random thread on the board, the answer is in the Prestige class description.
A couple of things:
1. This is a build, as in a specific set of criteria coming together to make a character. It is showing the power of the Champion of Irori with the best combination possible.
2. I did make a guide, listing 16 different races. Its here.
Also "your guide is not worthy" I am trying to decide whether to be amused or annoyed at the undeserved trolling. A bit of both, I think.
Better unarmed strike damage (Monastic Legacy requires Still Mind), the ability not to be knocked prone or moved from spot (requires lvl 4 Monk of the Sacred Mountains), Toughness (its a nice bonus feat for a 2nd level Monk of the Sacred Mountain).
Earth Elemental is all right, but I prefer the DR 10 of planar wildshape (requires animal form) to the DR 5 of Earth Elemental. Allosaurus also has better attack options (pounce/rake) than the Earth Elemental.
As far as buffing is concerned, best Druid spells (GMF, Strong Jaw) are in place by lvl 4 spells. No need to kill yourself for spells that aren't directly related to "Tankiness"
P.s. BaB wise, the Mnk 4/ Druid 8 has exactly the same to hit as Druid 12 and a better to hit than Mnk 1/ Druid 11.
I'm partial to my basic Druid/Monk Split. At lvl 12 it works out to:
Druid 8 (Saurian Shaman/Lion Shaman) / Monk 4 (MoMS, Monk of the Sacred Mountain)
With Monastic Legacy, you hit as an 8th level Monk (1d10) and if you are wildshaped into something Huge, then it does a pretty decent 4d8 damage (8d8 if you are casting one of your two castings of Strong Jaw).
Planar Wildshape makes sure that you have continual DR 10 vs either good or evil (I'd choose good personally, as most of enemies aren't likely to have holy weapons unless something has gone off the rails)in animal form.
Lvl 4 Monk of the Sacred Mountain means you can't be moved or knocked prone, which is jolly useful as a Tank. (You have to remain in the same square, but with 15ft reach, this actually isn't much of a chore)
Stats would be like:
Versatile Human (Shapeshifted into Allosaurus):
Str 26 (+2 From lvl, +6 from WS)
Feats would be:
Lvl 1: Improved Grapple (1st), Dragon Style (Monk Bonus)
Reasonably good at all levels. Has druid buffs and a decently leveled pet dinosaur.
As voideternal says, you can't charge and vital strike at the same time.
An outcome of the new faq on standardizing increasing damage dice is that the 7d8 base of the carnivorous crystal actually becomes 16d6 with 2 size increases, not 14d8. (16d6 is roughly equivalent to 12d8).
So while the Conqueror Ooze is still the best DPR, it shares that slot with every other build to get 12d8 unarmed strike/natural attck damage.
Its advantage is it gets there quick, basically lvl 10 to be flurrying with 12d8 strikes, as opposed to the lvl 20 most other builds have to be.
Plus ca change...
Your druid PC dreams of a beast rippling with scales, teeth and muscles. In their dream, they and the beast clash in almost euphoric violence, and they inevitably meet their end amidst slashing claws and crushing jaws.
In the waking world, everything looks so insignificant next to the life or death struggle taking place by night.
Will they be able to master their totem-monster before the primal beast masters them?
(Saurian Shaman in-character reasoning).
May I direct you to the document covering Polymorph type spells of the Transmutation subschool and the pertinent line:
In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.
6th for Lion Shamans, 8th for other Druids.
Just made a thread for advice on a mauler and I wanted to ask if horn of the cryosphinx works on claws with feral combat training?
The scary thing here is that it doesn't seem the feat is limited to unarmed strikes, as long as both his hands are empty, claws, bites, and talons all benefit, RAW from Horn of the Criosphinx on a charge.
These Claw Blades will be useless for you when you wildshape. You want to make more natural attacks, not revert to making iterative attacks with a weapon (which is what claw blades give you)
The armor bonus from chain shirt of brawling will be equally scuttled until you get the wild property, but the brawling should remain. +2 is nice, so I'd keep those.
You are a medium character. The Totem transformation does what it says on the tin. You cannot use the natural attacks from the totem transformation at full BaB if you use the claw blades.
When you reach character level 7, (Monk 1/ Lion Shaman 6) you can wildshape into a Huge Warbeast, mentioned upthread, which is proabably (though one can argue the 4 claws on a charge for the dire tiger might be equal) the best wildshape form you can take.
Yes, though your natural attacks are at huge penalties until you have Multiattack, if you want to take that unarmed monk strike.
I'm not so sure about PFS legal as I don't play PFS and don't know about their rules and exceptions. Perhaps someone else will chime in?
On the level breakdown, I have been trying to make one, but run into the problem that the multiclass takes too long to mature (around lvl 15 or so, I think) since you want Greater and Rapid grapple as well as decent unarmed damage.
I'll see what I can do, but the mauler is probably the more PFS ready variant of the FoF.
Your unarmed damage would be that of a first level Monk, 1d6. I recommend you two hand a quaterstaff and magic it up with Shillelagh.
Chris Rivers 682 wrote:
How do you manage dungeons? Being Huge could be a problem.
Most dungeons I've noticed in published adventures are built to accomodate at least large creatures (don't want to have a cave without a dragon in it, I suppose).
I have lamented that normal human sized doors are a druid's most dire nemesis in the past.
I'm no authority, really. I just wait for the faqs. The table variance on what you can get away with seems to be quite high, so I mostly just assume most things merge and armor bonuses don't function.
2. Have you seen the Canopy Creeper? I ran an encounter with this thing against my party. I am thinking that the reach must be intended to not be what is written... otherwise, um... Combat Reflexes please!
Ooh, good find. 4 of the same attack (vine tendrils) would also work well with feral combat training (though how you would get weapon focus vine tendril before level 12 does put a damper on wildshaping.)
Hmmm, I don't actually have the book, but to my eye, it seems the Unchained monk probably makes a much better single class choice, but a much worse multi-class choice (which is unfortunately my preference, Monk/Druid multiclass).
On the other hand, I bet the new unchained monks make excellent Champions of Irori. Instead of going more levels in paladin, you can load up on Monk levels for extra ki abilities (powered by the CoI's channel-energy to ki alchemy). Am I right?
I actually really like the faq. Previously, the entire size/damage system was up for discussion and there was confusion about what stacked and what did not.
Now except for inevitable corner cases like shield spikes (which should get resolved soon to everyone's satisfaction, hopefully), it is much simpler. You have one actual size increase and one effective size increase and that is the limit of it. For those of you worried about damage, you can still get 12d8 damage per swing out of that, so I personally am not too broken up about it.
I on the other hand heartily endorse this faq as it is how it has always made sense to me. Thank you, faq team!
I'm glad my 12d8 unarmed strike Monk/Druids and 14d8 Unarmed Strike Conqueror Ooze still work exactly as planned. :)
Dragon Style says this:
Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
And thus only applies to the first iterative.
Dragon Ferocity says this:
Benefit: While using Dragon Style, you gain a bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls equal to half your Strength bonus. When you score a critical hit or a successful Stunning Fist attempt against an opponent while using this style, that opponent is also shaken for a number of rounds equal to 1d4 + your Strength bonus.
And thus applies to all unarmed attacks.
Horn of the Criosphinx says this:
Prerequisite(s): Base attack bonus +6 or monk level 6th.
Benefit(s): Whenever you make a successful charge attack while wielding a two-handed weapon in both hands, add two times your Strength bonus to the damage roll.
Normal: A character wielding a two-handed weapon adds 1-1/2 times her Strength bonus to damage rolls.
Special: A monk can use this feat as long as he is wielding a two-handed weapon or both his hands are empty.
Note: A monk can take any of these feats as bonus feats at the indicated levels. To benefit from the feats, monks must have both hands free and capable of delivering an unarmed strike.
And doesn't specify that it only applies to the first attack. Where would you get that idea? If a monk got pounce from some other source (say, wildshape), he would get this benefit on all his unarmed strikes, would he not? Even sans pummeling style and just normal iteratives?
So Ram, say a Warpriest (Sacred Fist)/Monk (MoMS) has janni style/rush, dragon style/ferocity, Pummeling Style/Rush and Horn of the Criosphinx, you'd be all right with them dealing:
2.5x Str damage on all attacks (Interaction between Criosphinx and dragon ferocity, ignoring the 1.5x str damage from dragon style)
2x unarmed strike damage on all attacks (Janni Rush wording,nothing specifies that it is only the 1st attack that benefits)
on a full attack that applies the combined damage vs DR (thanks to Pummeling Style/Pummeling Charge)?
Just checking to see if I have understood right.
When he woke up the fight was already over...Exploiting Underhanded / Sap Master / Always Threatening
You can get Arcane Strike with the True Strike Spell like ability from the Qinggong Monk.
No huge felines, 9th level Nimble guardian is for Rake, which grants you two extra Claws on a pounce.
Its not the powerhouse a Monk/Druid is, but you get to play one of the most powerful Single Classed Monks out there.
For the Naga Aspirant Druid Archetype, which gets this ability:
Does the Druid's wildshape ability progress past this point (i.e. do they gain huge animal wildshape?)
... 20th level monk damage is 2d10. Its what I based all my calculations on.
Also the monk gets to full attack at the end of a charge, thanks to stuff like pummeling charge or pounce (in Allosaurus form).
Also if I am not mistaken, the value for powerful charge (4d10 in the case of the Tricerotops) is the amount of damage that you deal on a charge, and is not added to the base 2d10 damage.
So yes, I think my monk does a lot better (potentially 5x12d8 attacks versus a single 4d10 attack on a charge) but takes longer to get there.
Ah, you could do a single 12d8 gore on a charge as a Tricerotops with Strong Jaw on, thats not bad.
To Chaosguy, If you are going lion shaman, then you are going to have to be happy with 6d8 at most as there aren't any huge cats. Only Dinos have huge pouncers.
To Derek, Wildshapes lasts for hours per level, Natural spell allows you to cast during wildshape. With 2 Wildshapes at 8th level, for example, you can be in wildshape for 16 hours per day, which is basically all the time.