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The Manyfaced One

prototype00's page

1,181 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.


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Ah, thats pretty good then. It probably goes on the same tier as Saurian Shaman due to you being able to miss out on Natural spell (eventually, you can retrain it or something).

prototype00


Deadmanwalking wrote:
A Goliath Druid can use compsognathus form to scout stealthily. Or pteranodon form to fly. Still lacks a tiny flying form, but it's not completely screwed on either front.

So as to keep the guide as simple as possible, I will opt not to cover 3rd party resources, if that is all right. I had thought the Goliath druid was Pathfinder core, but evidently not.

Quote:

Inspired by this guide i actually decided to create a Nagaji Druid Fist of Fury!

However my character is joining the campaign at level 4 and so doesn't have all of its stuff. At first i thought i would take straight druid to have wild shape straight away but that doesn't actually seem to make me very tough, would it be smarter to go 2 in Druid, 2 in Tetori Monk then return to druid after that? Also what feats should i take at low level?

You probably want a level of Tetori Monk (for Improved Grapple for free), and then 3 levels of Naga Aspirant (so you can go Naga at 6th level with a pick of Shaping Focus at 5th level, delays Natural Spell to 7th level, however, ah well).

After you take your 4 levels of Naga Aspirant, revert to Monk for the next 5 levels to pick up Greater Grapple for free.

As to low level feats, it would be mostly the same combat feats that most monks druids will take (Weapon focus (Improved Unarmed Strike) etc, as you can effectively fight other opponents around you while grappling anyway. I actually don't have any specific advice for this, anyone else want to chime in? Grabbing style will be useful, but a high level pick.

By the by, thanks for the patience with the guide, I am enjoying my holiday so far, but there will be a stretch where I am on the road, so we'll see about putting a bit more in then.

prototype00


pathfinderOGC, right? They don't have the rights to official Pathfinder god names, so they sub in stuff. Bronze Gong is Irori's specific channel foci, it would be strange if his worshippers couldn't use it.

prototype00


Ooh, I'll check it out. Sorry the guide has been slow, DA:I has been claiming the lions share of my time.


Stir wrote:


Yeah, pretty broken. Probable nerf-bait?

Eh, I don't know. They faq-ed it less than a year ago. They obviously thought the Feral Combat Training feat wasn't good enough.

prototype00


Stir wrote:


Wow, lotsa very interesting ideas!

But (there's always a but) I'm a little uncomfortable with your take on Feral Combat Training:

'treat all of them as your Unarmed Strike with regard to feats, Magic Items, Magic Spells etc and damage (if your unarmed strike damage is higher) ... '

Here's the feat description:

"Feral Combat Training (Combat)

You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature."

I read the last part of the Benefits section as '... as well as effects of feats that augment ...' (I think my two added words 'of feats' are strongly implied). A more liberal reading would take 'effects' to include spells and/or items that augment unarmed strike. I can't see how a class feature (i.e. the scaling of damage with unarmed strike) can be considered an effect. Also note that other weapons which can be used in a monk's FoB do not have scaling damage.

I'm looking forward to your completed guide!

Hey, I don't blame ya, I thought that was a bit of a stretch too, until this faq:

Quote:

Feral Combat Training and Unarmed Strike Damage: Does this allow me to use my monk unarmed damage with the selected natural attack?

Yes. The feat says you can apply "effects that augment an unarmed strike," and the monk's increased unarmed damage counts as such.

Crazy, huh?

prototype00


Papa-DRB wrote:

Yea, but as a Druid 7 (strong jaw) / Monk 10 (at max in the campaign I am prepping for), a monk does 1d10, more likely a step down from that.

I do not understand what you mean by "damage progression". What damage progression?

-- david

Monk 10 + Monk's Robe = 15 levels (2d6 damage) + Monastic Legacy (3 extra monk levels from 7 levels of Druid) = 2d8 damage

With Strong Jaw and Huge Wildshape, thats 8d8 damage, which isn't bad. You have to be lvl 20 for the 12d8 damage unfortunately.

Quote:
Also, I would dispute prototype00s last statement. Behemoth Hippopotamus + Rageshaper (bestial aspect) + Improved Natural Attack + Strong Jaw + Cloak of Fangs. And, as an afterthought, Improved Vital Strike and Furious Finish.

Sure, but some differences between this and the druid:

1. The druid an stay in his form for the entire day, Polymorph and Beast Shape last for a minute per level

2. The Druid can cast his spells thanks to Natural spell (so versatility)

3. The druid can also do this trick, behemoth hippo is all right, but the carnivorous crystal is better.

prototype00


So a 20th level monk does 2d10 unarmed strike damage (works out to 3d8 in damage progression terms). If you have feral combat training, your claws/slams/bite/whatever does that much damage now.

If you are a huge creature, your unarmed strike is also huge, so 6d8 damage.

If you can cast Strong Jaw, thats 2 more size increases, so 12d8 damage (which is incidentally what a 20th level Colossal Monk would be doing).

No weapon (except for the Carnivorous Crystal's slam attack) will do as much damage as that. And that is the source of the Druid/Monk's power.

prototype00


Tetori, as the bonus feats and abilities are better.

Maneuver Master lets you tack on a maneuver for free onto a full attack, but if that maneuver is to grapple, you either lose the full attack, or you can't straight off pin (because you've used your standard action already during the full attack).

prototype00


Lune wrote:

Mmm... I think I may have just broke something.

I have potentially two questions.

1. Does Feral Combat Training work with Pummeling Style? I read the errata to both and I believe it does.

2. Assuming the answer to 1. is a "yes" ... did I just make the Conquerer Ooze build top the DPR meters?

Being able to charge, full attack with a flurry of uberslam, free action trip and do everything else that slam can do (stunning fist, etc) seems very powerful. Very. Powerful.

PS. Welcome back, prototyp00!

Its good, I personally prefer the max damage Greater Vital Strike damage with Furious Finish. 500ish damage in a single hit deals with DR quite effectively too, I find.

prototype00


Emperor Point wrote:
This seems like an interesting character concept but doesn't sound like it would be great at low levels. Is there any advice for what you might do at low level?

Two hand a Shillelaghed Quaterstaff enlarged by the growth domain or cast enlarge person via the strength domain for 3d6 + 1 + 1.5xStr (I recommend 18 strength so 12?)

That's what I did.

prototype00


Oterisk wrote:
I think you might have missed the Dragon Style feats in your actual feat section. Was this intentional? I know you actually comment on it in other places, but it's curiously missing from the feat section.

Ah, I must have missed that, embarrassing. I'll get to it when I need to take a break from Dragon Age.

Quote:

Could one of your builds be a fairly simple Druid (Saurian Shaman) / Monk build?

Final character level will be 17.
Saurian Shaman does not get Wildshape till Druid 6.

I am just wondering what levels to take in what order,

That's easy! (Because I'm playing one.)

1 monk -> 6 levels of Druid (rush for that huge wildshape) -> 1 more level of Druid (For Strong Jaw) -> Any combination of Monk or Druid.

But I'll put the build in the guide.

prototype00


You could just download it? Its a pdf.

prototype00


Mark Seifter wrote:

An intriguing question. It depends on two things.

1) Is ordinary vision an extraordinary ability? Because you definitely lose darkvision and keen senses. One would assume you would lose regular vision too. I mean, from where do you see? However it may not be the case depending on that question.

2) Is blindsense considered a "lesser version" of blindsight? If so, you would at least get blindsense, though you still can't target things you aren't touching and have a 50% miss chance, so that isn't perfect.

Neither of these is clear, though I'm slightly inclined toward the strict answers being Yes and No, but I could go either way on it.

Thanks very much for the reply, I do feel sorry for all the potential players who wanted to play the archetype but are automatically struck blind by its most iconic ability.

However the issue has been faq-ed enough on the forums that the Design Team will attend to it in due course, so I am content to wait upon that.

prototype00


The immunity to fatigue is probably the important component from Martial Artist, not the "can be any alignment".

prototype00


Actually I just realized that Hunter lets you use a lesser echoing metamagic rod with Strong Jaw instead of an echoing one. That's something at least (you'd to store those off body when you Wildshape and shift into something with opposable thumbs and a voice).

prototype00


Hello Mark, Hope you enjoyed Turkey Day!

Just wanted to ask a quick question. Say a 10th level Druid with the Cave Druid archetype Wildshapes into an ooze as per their class ability:

Quote:
A cave druid gains this ability at 6th level, except that her effective druid level for this ability is equal to her druid level –2. She cannot use wild shape to adopt a plant form. At 10th level, the cave druid can assume the form of a Small or Medium ooze as if using beast shape III, and at 12th level that of a Tiny or Large ooze as if using beast shape IV (treating the ooze as if it were a magical beast without a natural armor bonus). When in ooze form, the cave druid has no discernible anatomy and is immune to poison, sneak attacks, and critical hits.

Are they automatically blind because oozes have no eyes and they don't gain the Ooze's blindsight ability as per the Wildshape rules?

Thanks for the help,

prototype00


Its not bad. Some of the spells I want as a druid I get as a lower level as a Hunter like Strong Jaw (but due to worse spellcasting progression, you get it at lvl 7, just the same as a druid).

Mostly the many good Druid archetypes are marginally better than the one Feral Hunter Hunter archetype.

Its a choice thing, really.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So small update this time (was slightly ill this weekend), I've finished the Style feats and put in the skills.

Traits will be next.

Enjoy!

prototype00


Nothing to add except Have you considered the Daring Champion archetype of the Cavalier? Except same abilities as the Swashbuckler (well the ones you are looking for at any rate), better HD and challenge damage.

prototype00


Nyaa wrote:
Would it be possible to write builds first and place them at the beginning of the guide?

To what end? Those who are new to this kind of build would like to see the basics laid out first, I feel. Also, traditionally, most guides have their builds after the exposition.

Quote:
There are quite a few guides on both Monk and Druid, and all Druid guides follow Optimization Commandment №1.

For general optimization, sure. "Thou shalt not give up Caster Levels" is useful. For optimizing something specifically (in this case unarmed strike/natural attack damage), some sacrifices have to be made.

Also, I'll let you guys in on a secret. Best druid self buffing spells? You get by lvl 4 (Strong Jaw). A Druid/Monk can happily take 10 levels of druid (for Huge Elemental Wildshape with Shaping focus) and still not feel inferior to his more casterly brethren.

Of course for those of you who want 9th level spells, there is a build that gets that and 8d8 unarmed strike damage too, fret not.

prototype00


How do the Elementals see then? They don't have eyes either. Druids shifting into Elementals must be, by default, blind then.

prototype00


Since you give up Unarmed strike and Unarmed Strike damage increases, I am not inclined to view it favorably.

prototype00


For those of you who are looking forward to the builds, I'll get to them after I finish up with the feats and magic items. I have a couple in mind, worry not. (I've been making this kind of character since the 3rd edition days, after all)

Quote:
I'm definitely interested in more info about why not brawler...martial flexibility is awesome, full BAB from the get go for all situations (not just when flurrying or using CMB/D) is very nice, and the ability to wear armor for those levels before you actually shift adds some serious versatility.

Your points are valid. Most of the work I have done has been on Monks, Brawlers have only been out a couple of months. The wisdom synergy as you said is a big one. Also, Brawler archetypes are, from what I can see, apart from the Mutagenic Mauler (and that one has its own problems) not synergistic with shifting at all. (Nothing stands out like the MoMS or the Maneuver Master).

Also, the lack of Monastic Legacy is a bit rankling for a multi-classed unarmed character.

As I said previously, I will touch on the Brawler in the guide after I am done with feats and skills.

prototype00


Sorry for the misunderstanding, I had every intentions to have it as part of Guide to the Guides, I just wanted it in a bit more finished/polished state before I put it up for inclusion, that's all.

prototype00


Secret Wizard wrote:
Quote:
Also- horn is best when you dip MoMS, and grab pummeling style and dragon style. Dragon ferocity adds a bonus equal to 1/2 your str score, so it should stack with horn's x2 str (plus, dragon style eases charging). Because people who get in your way do not deserve faces. But don't quote me on any of that (well...other than the quote found in general replies..), since bonus stacking is always a bit iffy.
el no stacko
prototype00 wrote:

Hmm, well, I put the question to Mark Seifter and he had this to say:

Quote:
It looks to me like nothing changed. Just as before, it still definitely doesn't forth with Dragon Style's increase to 1.5, and it may or may not work with Ferocity depending on order of operations. So it'll depend on the GM's ruling of order of operations.

So if it worked to give you 2.5x Str to all attacks in the past, it will work to give you 2.5x Str even now.

prototype00

El si stacko.

prototype00


Cevah wrote:

Found another...

Way of the Angry Bear 3: Bear Fisted Fighting
Discussion

/cevah

-_- I kind of wanted to post this myself once I was done updating the guide. Ah well.

prototype00


Tels wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
You can only charge as a standard action when you are limited to a standard action. When I say limited I mean "external forces". You choosing to take a standard action is not what is meant.

The feat, Rhino Charge, is a special exception.

Rhino Charge wrote:

Prerequisites: Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, base attack bonus +5.

Benefit: You may ready a charge, though you may only move up to your speed on the charge.

Normal: Charging is a full-round action and allows you to move twice your speed.

Maybe Wraithstrike is replying to Cap. Darling and not myself?

prototype00


Just a Mort wrote:
Can the conqurer ooze kill everything in 1 shot, assuming no strongjaw up? Furious finish requires you to be able to rage cycle( and probably some way to regain rage). I think I ran the calcs before, you can't 1 hit everything cr appropriate unless buffed with strongjaw and using furious finish. Without either you cant? Assume a long long dungeon crawl...no way you're going to be able to have strongjaw up all the time.

Well, Strong Jaw is a big part of the calculation, yes. I would, for preference, save it for the big battles (you get to cast it around 2-3 times per day, at higher levels I would invest in a 4th level pearl of power).

You still can flurry of blows with a 7d8 slam though, so you're not completely helpless when it is not up.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cap. Darling wrote:

But Rastlov going before or after you is meta knowledge and it would not go in my game. No one take turns in Real battle.

And i still Think the Can only take a standard action criteria is fulfilled in a ready action.

Fair enough, Cap. Darling, we shall disagree as equals.Please enjoy your game then, as I will be sure to endeavour to enjoy mine.

Quote:
Don't forget Rhino Hide armor for the extra 2d6 damage.

Did not enter my considerations as I have Monk/Druid on the brain currently, but I'm sure it is useful for a lot of builds.

prototype00


You get extra attacks (like for rake on a charge) also, Horn of the Criosphinx and Janni Rush for double Strength bonus (x2.5 with Dragon Ferocity) and double Unarmed Strike damage both trigger on a charge.

prototype00


A charge is normally a full round action, as per the core rules. You can only charge as a Standard action if there is No Way for you to take a full round action. As a GM, of course you can make all the rule changes you like, but RAW, you are implementing the rules incorrectly.

As to readying the action, it could be "I know that Rastlov went right after me previously. This time, when I see him acting, I'll put my own plan into action to co-ordinate our efforts". There you go, no abstraction required.

Even the most Iron Fisted DMs should have no problem with that logic.

prototype00


So you take a Move action to move away, and ready (as a standard action) a charge (as allowed by the Rhino Charge feat). Then when your readied action triggers, you charge (and you can also move up to your speed as allowed by the feat) right up into your targets grill.

prototype00


After much work, I have finally completed the feats section. *reaches shakily for the coffee*.

prototype00

Scratch that, still have to do the Style feats *sigh* -_-


Why couldn't you ready "When the next person in the initiative order acts." Then you go right before the next person acts, which is still effectively your initiative? Or does that break the rules:

Quote:
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character.

The rules as I read them don't seem to specify "When next person in Initiative Order acts" (and it could be an ally, for sure), as a non valid triggering condition.

prototype00


So a lot of nice things trigger off charge. Rhino charge allows you to ready a charge (standard action).

Would it then be legal to:

1. Charge someone (maybe getting a full round attack thanks to pounce)
2. Next round, move away, either taking an attack of opportunity or tumbling
3. Ready a charge condition : "anyone acts"
4. Charge the same target again, full attack
5. Repeat next round.

Prototype00


Oterisk wrote:

I think it also might be good for you to hit on a few different classes. You need to take a look at the Brawler and the Hunter. The Feral Hunter gains wildshape, the Brawler gains extra feats you can just tack on a couple times a day for extra fun, and allows for a low Wis build (technically you could get by with a 12) and pick up light armor with the wild enchant on it at higher levels. The other thing I like about the brawler is the access to fighter feats. Weapon Versatility + Feral Combat Training is a wonderful feat for those that transform into anything with multiple natural weapons.

I've got a build that might be interesting for you. It takes a while to get going, but it's pretty cool.

Human Feral Hunter 2, Master of Many Styles 1, FH2, Dragon Disciple 4

1. Racial Heritage (Kobold), Scaled Disciple
3. Improved Unarmed Strike, Dragon Style, Stunning Fist, Dragon Ferocity
4. Outflank
5. Shaping Focus
7. Weapon Focus (claw)
9. Feral Combat Training (claw)

From here you can take more monk or Dragon Disciple for Dragon Form if you like.

The Hunter Animal Focus ability is good, I've said as much in the Guide under the Feral Shifter Druid archetype description.

As for the Feral Hunter, it isn't bad. The spontaneous spellcasting to get into DD is an interesting trick, and this would be a pretty decent build. Personally I like some of the Higher level monk abilities (and defintely higher level monk unarmed strike).

I'll add in a portion in the Class section to talk about other classes like the Brawler or the Hunter when I'm done with the feats.

prototype00


Just a Mort wrote:

Would Cornugon smash and Hurtful feats be good for the Conqueror Ooze?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/cornugon-smash-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/hurtful-combat

Power Attack combined with Vital strike, make free intimidate check, and wail on the bad guy again. Problem is you cannot dump cha(or need to get intimidating prowess to make up for it). I think it is worth while since not many would survive 1 vital strike and 1 standard hit form the Conqueror Ooze. However it means the use of your swift actions, so no using of qinggong true strike.

I like your work btw :D

I like what Cornugon smash does, but Charisma is our dump stat so our Intimidate is never going to be very high. Its a good idea, but you have to take more feats (like the one that gives Str to intimidate) to make it work, and the FoF is already feat starved.

Besides the idea behind the Conqueror Ooze is to kill everything in 1 hit. ;)

Quote:

I've been considering a build somewhat like this and trying (for flavor reasons, as well as for strength boosts) to incorporate Mutagenic Mauler levels. Have you considered anything like that? I was thinking of a mix of monk and brawler in place of what would normally be occupied by monk levels, but the inability to use natural weapons with Brawler's Flurry really has me hesitating.

Also, excellent guide! This is one of my favorite character types, and I shall be watching eagerly for updates.

Imbicatus has the right of it. Lack of opposable thumbs and equipment in most forms to make mutagens also kind of sours it for me.

prototype00


Hi Everyone,

I have updated the guide with about half of the feats I was going to look at (there are too many Combat Feats, seriously). I'm pretty certain that I've missed some synergy or misgraded some feat here or there. If you do see something you think should be changed, let me know!

prototype00


thegreenteagamer wrote:
If the main thing you want is unarmed strike and shaping, why not use brawler instead of monk?

I'll address that later in the guide, suffice it to say, it isn't awful but for four points:

- Feral combat training doesn't work with Brawler's flurry (due to the wording of Feral Combat Training)
- None of the Brawler archetypes actually do anything for this build
- No Wisdom Synergy (which you'll need as a Druid anyway)
- No existing tricks to up unarmed damage (like Monk's robe, which doesn't work for Brawlers and Monastic legacy)

Avoron wrote:

Looks nice.

One thing: this FAQ lets an Eagle Shaman take the form of a Huge Roc with wild shape. While this might not be the best option, it lets you get a bite/talon/talon routine at level 6 with flight and grab, so I think it's definitely worth considering.

Ooh, that changes things, its about as good as the Lion Shaman then (flight vs rake). I'll update the guide.

prototype00


Hello Everyone! I have updated the Guide with my thoughts on the Druid and it's archetypes. The next section will be feats, then spells, then magic items and builds.

prototype00


Wildshape should allow you to qualify for Final Embrace (IIRC, you lose the benefits of the feat when you are not in Naga form).

prototype00


LN basically means that you have an internal code of conduct and you follow it to the letter.

I'd basically make up three tenets that represent this code and follow them obsessively.

For example my Strength Obsessed LN Monk(MoMS)/Druid(Saurian Shaman) has this:

1. There is strength in Nature, learn from it and respect it.
2. Your foes deserve your best, hold nothing back.
3. Those who teach you and those you teach are family, treat them as such.

So pretty easy to follow, quite different from the societal norm while still being an internal compass to guide actions.

prototype00


Heck, flavour your form however you like, as long as it grapples like a Naga, thats all that matters.

I'm working my way through the Druid section now, I've decided to replace Monk/Druid Multiclass in my guide with Fist of the Forest or FoF for short.

Rolls of the tongue better, I feel, no objections? (And thanks for the idea Efreeti.)

prototype00


Well, there's two basic routes.

1. Straight druid + Tetori ) with Shaping Focus to make up the 4 multiclassed Monk levels.
- Final Embrace Feat line to get double damage to constrict
- Normally, the best Wildshape forms don't get constrict (Allosaurus for example), so get an Anaconda Coils belt
- Kill things.

Cons: Belt is expensive and takes up +Str slot

2.Nagaji Naga Aspirant + Tetori
- Naga wildshape allows you to take the final embrace feat line without having constrict (it in fact gives you constrict)
- Lots of nice arcane Spells that are not normally

Cons: You don't get higher Wildshape forms and the Naga is only large.

The halfling Underfoot adept is mostly for tripping.

prototype00


lro wrote:
Interesting, trex with a katana you say? ;) Actually tried to make something similar myself a few years back, a hippotamus with crane style. Sadly that druid got crushed by his own snake before his prime. :p

... Is this some kind of sexual innuendo? If so, I shall have no part of it. ;)

Treemystic wrote:
This is very interesting, I have been wanting to make a grapple based character for a while but the damage has always been kind of low for me.

Was your grappler a pure monk or druid? What you basically want is Constrict at this point, and 12d8 or 8d8 unarmed strike damage with Greater Grapple and Rapid Grappler which allows you to make 3 grapple checks per round which equates to potentially 72d8 or 48d8 damage (plus static mods).

boring7 wrote:
Are you saying we have the right to bear arms?

Ha! Better than the right to arm bears (or T-Rexs for that matter, Just say No, man.).

prototype00


Hello James,

Small query, and apologies if it has been asked in the past. I understand that adventurer demographics will vary from region to region, but what is the frequency of those of Adventuring Persuasion in Avistan and Tian Xia? (Is there a difference?)

Also what proportion of society would have PC class levels? Is it over 50%?

Thanks so much for the reply.

prototype00


6 people marked this as a favorite.

So as promised some months ago, I have started working on a guide to effectively multiclassing Druid and Monk to make the most scary Unarmed combatants in Pathfinder.

So far, I've covered the introduction and the Monk class and all the archetypes (whoo boy, that took longer than I thought it would).

The next step will be covering the Druid class and archetypes, then I'll move onto feats, magic items and probably three example builds (The Mauler, The Crusher and The Conqueror Ooze).

As always with my guides, I welcome your comments and suggestions.

prototype00


Hello Mark, hope you are having a good week.

A small question I wanted to ask concerning Feral Combat training, if I may?

So according to a recent faq, if you are a monk and you have feral combat training with a natural attack, you can apply your unarmed strike damage to the natural attack. I.e. if your unarmed strike damage was 1d8 and your claw damage was originally 1d4, and you had feral combat training (claw), your claw damage would become 1d8.

Now if you had Improved Natural Attack (Claw), would that 1d8 damage that the claw is now doing be adjusted to 2d6 as if you were one size larger as per the Improved Natural Attack feat description?

Thanks so much for the answer (whichever it might be).

prototype00


This thread is for brainstorming making the best Nimble Guardian for tearing things up with 4 claw attacks at 9th level at full BaB (with multiattack, that can be full BaB -2 + full iterative unarmed strike sequence.)

So Nimble Guardian is a pretty good Racial Monk Archetype for Catfolk, but they have really bad stats for it (mostly the -2 wisdom).

Fortunately, you can take Racial Heritage as a Human or a Half Orc (Half Elf too, but they don't really bring anything to the party.), and here at least you have a better stat arrangement.

Lets enumerate some basic build goals:
1. Feral Combat Training (Claws) which requires...
2. Weapon Focus (Claws)

So the problem here is that you can't take Weapon Focus (Claws) until you actually have functional claws. *Something Neither Humans or Half Orcs Have*, but Racial Heritage (Catfolk) allows you to take the Catfolk Exemplar feat and one of the options is to get two primary 1d4 claw attacks. Interesting.

So Humans can:
1. Pick Racial Heritage (Catfolk) and Catfolk Exemplar (Claws) at 1st level, pick up WF (Claws) at 3rd and Feral Combat Training at 5th. As a side benefit, two 1d4 + str attacks is probably better than your one unarmed strike at 1st level.

or

2.rock Dual Talent and delay all feats after Racial Heritage by 2 levels.

Half Orcs can take Toothy as a Racial trait and have a sweet three primary attack routine (but only from 3rd level, which is the earliest they can take Catfolk Exemplar). But it becomes slightly redundant at 7th level when you can turn into a Dire Tiger for an hour at a time.

Or they can take Sacred Tattoo, and with Fate's Favored thats +2 to all saves at 1st level, which coupled with monk saves is pretty good.

So what say you, Advice board? Good entry or best entry? (just kidding, if you know a better Nimble Guardian entry/build, please tell me, I'm not proud.)

prototype00

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