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The Manyfaced One

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Hi James,

Was just thinking about Dragon Empires and high level foes in general. Roughly how many Void Yai Oni (including Voidlords) would you say there are operating in Golarion?

Is it closer to dozens or hundreds?

prototype00


You are mistaken. You don't have to meet the prerequisite of the first feat in the style tree either.

prototype00


2 people marked this as a favorite.

What type of bonus is the wisdom mod? Is it sacred? Luck? Something you pulled out of thin air that isn't in the rules?


The smallest most useless channel that qualifies you for channel smite/guided hand, and also becomes many more ki points through a bronze gong.

Thus allowing you to smite all enemies all the time as a Champion of Irori.

Every little helps. :)

prototype00


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
The rules tell you what you can do, not what you can't do.

You seem to be ignoring this. Everything else is fluff text, unless it says it does something mechanical. No damage or no save or die effect? It doesn't do these things.

RAW means taking the rules as written, not extrapolating some kind of "logical extreme" based on the flavor text.

prototype00


Wouldn't every attack for the dragon style / ferocity, horn of the criosphinx combo be 2.5x Str (2x for Horn of the Criosphinx, .5x for dragon ferocity, dragon style is just a way to get dragon ferocity).

prototype00


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
They don't stack, because untyped bonuses from the same source do not stack. The source in both cases is the ability 'AC Bonus'.

The counter arguement:

While both abilities may share the same name, the abilities themselves are different. One is EX, the other SU. One grants an untyped AC bonus as you level, the other grants a deflection bonus as you level.

The as you level bonus stacks, but both of the abilities are use wisdom bonus for the large chunk of the boost, which is double dipping.

Oh BNW, what are you going to do if they rule, eventually, that double dipping is totes legal? :P

Don't get me wrong, if they rule against me, I'm going to do what I've always done*.

prototype00

*Curl up into a foetal position and cry while bingeing on a tub of ice-cream and cry-whinging to Merisiel that nobody understands me.


... Is this for real? Like a real question you are asking as a DM about to inflict dickery upon his players?

In which case, I would sincerely and seriously counsel against rapidly expanding the capability of Supernatural ability outside what has been spelled out by RAW (and golly, your use of the term "RAW" shames me, a staunch adherent of it).

I know the DM is king of his own campaign, but you'll just end up no/masochistic players if you head down this dark path.

The ability will, RAW,:

1: Destroy liquids (unless you are a water elemental, creatures aren't regarded usually as liquids. Are you considered a liquid perchance? A water elemental striding, hidden, amongst us mere mortals?)

2: Destroy potions if a will save is failed.

I wish I had the link to the Penny Arcade comic where Tycho tried this on his group and lost all his players. But the comic site search function is utter rust-monster leavings, so alas.

prototype00


Petty Alchemy wrote:

You've already got a large feat list, but don't forget Risky Striker.

I've played this type of character before, though it was with pre-nerf Crane Wing and a dip into Aldori Swordlord for Dex to damage (pre-Slashing Grace).

I'm not sure how you get to share +5 AC though, unless you're going into total defense.

Your personal bonus is +2 Fighting Defensively +1 Acrobatics Ranks + 1 Crane Style + 2 Cautious Fighter = +6, thus sharing +3 to allies. Have I missed something?

I am starting to question whether the character gets enough feats to make it work.

Osyluth guile is also adding a dodge bonus when I fight defensively. That is added, isn't it?

Prototype00


Either even dex/wis for the dex build or even str/wis for the dragon style build.

Your damage suffers too much otherwise.

prototype00


Probably Dex based since he/she wants evasion to work well too.

The dex build gets pretty tanky and can deal decent damage with an agile amulet of mighty fists, a mere 4k investment.

prototype00


*Translated from Minkaian*

"... so Master Samurai, please help our village! The bandits will return tomorrow! And we will either pay them with our lives or with the food we need to survive the winter!"

I'm no Samurai, just a wandering Ronin, but what are you offering in return for my services?

"...errr ummm...*sigh* Gold and treasure we have none, all we can give is three full meals a d..

SOLD! But make it seven, no point missing second breakfast and afternoon tea!

So I'm taking a break from obsessing about the intricacies of a Monk/Warpriest (Sacred Fist) multiclass and instead turning my glare upon the other combo the ACG has thrown up, the Dashing Champion Cavalier! All of the goodness of the Swashbuckler, none of the weaknesses (or we shall see I suppose).

Paired with a Katana (highest crit there is out there) it is a good combo.

Looking for a good race, I happened upon the halfling, +Dex, + Cha, small sized so good AC, weapon shrinkage is a pain, but most of the damage dealt is going to be static (from precise strike and challenge) so no loss. Str is low, but who needs it!

Hmm, but what is this? Halflings are great at defense (cautious fighter)! Well, you need to fight defensively to get it... but Crane style goes great with that! And you need one hand free for most of the Swashbuckler stuff anyway. And with + Cha, I can stack Cha onto my AC with Osyluth guile!

Now what order to take... Order of the Flame! My AC will start off pretty high anyway, might as well take something that will take some of it off, but translate it into killer damage!

And with bludering defense, my allies can benefit from around +5 to AC and CMD (from my +10 dodge bonus eventually) just from standing around me! Nice.

TL:DR

1. Halfling is a good race for Dashing Champion
2. Fighting defensively very easy for them, and very good with Crane Style/Osyluth guile.
3. Allies benefit from blundering defense (and possibly bodyguard).
4. Quite crazy damage.

Still in the thinking/planning stage, but something should come up.

prototype00


While there is nothing stopping you flavoring him/her as a Samurai, you are missing certain class abilities to actually be the Samurai alternate class.

You certainly are closer to the non-heavily armored Ronin samurai of the Chanbara films with this archetype than the samurai class though.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

No interest in the Daring Champion Cavalier version of the exact same build? With order of the flame, you can destroy all your enemies in a flash! (You better hope so at least, as your AC will be crazy low at that point).

prototype00


Jiggy wrote:
The FAQ-flagging system is supposed to be for getting clarification on genuinely unclear rules, not for convincing third-party companies that the rules really do mean what they say.

I must have missed this entry in the forum rules (unless it is something you made up not 5 minutes ago).

As I said in an earlier post (which you have ignored), it is possible to become confused over the punctuation. While it seems most people did not, it did require some inquiry.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If there is a mistake in Herolab, I don't hold it against them, to err is human and all that. They fix it soon enough.

Turns out that they might change it on the basis of the semi-colon (and my queries) so most frabjous day! 10/10 for customer engagement at the very least.

prototype00


Yeah, but if the Herolab folks can be confused, imagine other DMs having the same confusion.

Sometimes the faqs have to say something obvious when there is even a smidgen of doubt.

prototype00

*And yes, I understand at present that faqs in Paizo are a zero sum game due to the lack of staff, but have they not said that they have hired new staff for that exact purpose? I try to stay optimistic.*


12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hi all,

Like most of you, I thought that the semi-colon in the requirements for the feat Pummeling Style from the ACG, as seen in the text here:

Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike; base attack
bonus +6, brawler’s flurry† class feature, or flurry of
blows class feature

meant that the requirements for the feat were one of the below 3.

1. +6 BaB
2. Brawler's flurry
3. Flurry of Blows

However, the good folk at Herolabs do not think so. In fact they think the +6 BaB is more or less mandatory to take the feat in any circumstance.

I'm not asking you to convince me (preaching to the choir here), but could you kindly FAQ this so that Paizo provides a solid reply to this in the invevitable faqs for the ACG (and also to get them to use less ambiguous punctuation in the future).

For the proper use of Pummeling style on Herolabs!

prototype00


Undone wrote:
Seranov wrote:

You could always

Quote:

Round 1: Start the combat, enter Pummeling style stance and use a Blessing, possibly move into a more favorable position for charging.

Round 2: Enter Dragon style stance, charge and make a full attack with Pummeling charge

I mean you can also not take pummeling style and still full attack on the second round with buffs.

You're literally negating your own feats by not pummeling charging on turn 1.
EDIT: At that point you'd literally get more damage by skipping pummeling style for dragon style and not using the blessing.

It is equally viable to take one or two levels of MoMS, as Seranov has stated, there are things that you get with the one that you don't with the other. If all you want is to get FoB extra attacks earlier, well and good, take the first level only.

The fact that it takes extra turns worth of swift actions to get going as a Warpriest is something that has already come up with regards to spells and suchlike. Taking two levels of MoMS monk is unlikely to change that.

For me, I like the second level of MoMS.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Champion of the Enlightened (Champion of Irori) -- no guide, PC, or NPC

I think you missed something here...

prototype00


Undone wrote:
Seranov wrote:

The 2nd level doesn't change your BAB for Flurry (as Monk 2 gives +1 BAB), and it gives you a number of things. You also grab Toughness and +1 natural armor (or Evasion if you're not a Sacred Mountain) and +1 to all saves, on top of that prerequisite-free feat.

You're welcome to only go Monk 1/Warpriest X, but it's not a cut-and-dry better option, in my opinion.

It's not the BAB for flurry I worry about it's the # of attacks. You lose attacks at some levels.

The second and third extra attacks gotten from flurry, are to my eye exponentially worse than the first attack (since they are at -5 and -10).

If I could just have the first extra attack and full BaB -2, I'd probably be pretty happy as is.

prototype00


That's what combat style master is for. In the meantime you are probably going to swift activate pummelling style to close or if the enemy is already in your grill, you can start with dragon.


Undone wrote:


I recommend the no duration luck blessing from a power gamerie perspective I was going desna anyway. A rerolled D20 does significantly more statistically than destruction blessing.

Its not re-rolled, its roll 2 take the higher. Thats not nearly as good. You basically have to do it blind (for your first attack presumably).

Whereas destruction lasts for a minute. Thats a whole fight basically.

I think they're basically even, with the re-roll being more widely applicable and the destruction good for killing things.

prototype00


Undone wrote:


Quote:

Waited till 9th, took it as a legit feat. Tieflings can't take the Human bonus combat feat racial fcb, so just stuck that on skill points instead (which the Warpriest desperately needs, boy howdy).

prototype00

Interesting. I agree on the skill points but how do you feel on the HP with a 12 con?

I intend to play this in PFS.

Additionally what is the priorities for swift actions? You have so many. I assume first is fuse style so you can charge but after that is it just spam fervor spells/ki strikes?

Well, I'm not a fan personally of 12 con either, but with toughness coming in from the Monk of the Sacred Mountain archetype (gave up evasion, but really needed the HP), I felt a bit better about it, especially with healing from the class.

As for priorities, yeah, the style first of all, then depending on the situation switch it up. The blessing of destruction is good for a little extra damage (probably better than divine favor for that). AC you can either spam swift action owls wisdom (+4 AC before you get the headband) or go into crane style as a swift.

There are a lot of things to juggle, I guess you have to pick, say, 3 areas (crowd control/AC/damage) and use your swift actions as the situation dictates.

prototype00


Waited till 9th, took it as a legit feat. Tieflings can't take the Human bonus combat feat racial fcb, so just stuck that on skill points instead (which the Warpriest desperately needs, boy howdy).

prototype00


Sacred weapon being the name of the weapon enhancement.

prototype00


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Well for those of you who asked for it:

Lvl 1:

Old Kholsa Elds came back from the wars changed, his eyes always straying to the far horizon. In his arm he carried a male child, swaddled in bloodied banners of a dozen fallen cohorts. An instrument of Ragathiel's justice, he said. Demonspawn, others whispered.

The child, Riven ("For he was Riven from what destiny originally intended for him." said Kholsa) grew and he was blessed by his adoptive father's patron. None could deny Ragathiel's watchful gaze on his charge, just as none could deny the hellfire that burned in his eyes.

Riven lvl 1:
Riven
Oni-Spawn Tiefling Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 0)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 15, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+1 natural, +4 untyped)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Fort +3, Ref +0, Will +6
Resist fire 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee quarterstaff +4 (1d6+6) and
. . unarmed strike +4 (1d6+4)
Special Attacks flurry of blows
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 1st; concentration -2)
. . 1/day—alter self
Warpriest (Sacred Fist) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5):
. . 1st—divine favor, magic weapon
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 17, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 18, Cha 5
Base Atk +0; CMB +4; CMD 18
Feats Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike
Traits magical knack, prolong magic
Skills Acrobatics +4, Perception +8, Sense Motive +8, Stealth +4
Languages Abyssal, Common, Infernal
SQ aura, blessings, blessings (destruction blessing, good blessing), destructive attacks +1, fiendish sprinter, holy strike, prehensile tail, unarmed strike
Other Gear quarterstaff, warpriest's kit, 139 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura (Ex) The character has a strong aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Blessings (3/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Destructive Attacks +1 (Su) Touched ally gains a morale bonus to dam for 1 min.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Fiendish Sprinter 10-ft speed bonus when using charge, run or withdraw.
Flurry of Blows -1/-1 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Holy Strike (Su) Touched weapon deals +1d6 dam vs. evil foes for 1 min.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Magical Knack (Warpriest [Sacred Fist]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Prolong Magic Constant drills and preparation allow you to get more out of your innate magic. Whenever you use a spell-like ability gained through your tiefling heritage, it automatically acts as if affected by the Extend Spell metamagic feat.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) Extra unarmed strike dam, no off-hand dam reduction and don't need free hands to att.

Note: I went super generic for his starter feat (Dodge), but with a tiefling, you could pick up Arcane Strike as well, if you want to practice doing something with your swift action every round.

Riven grew to be a pugilist. With foot and fist and tail, he put paid to those that menaced the innocent while hiding his anguish from those who scorned his parentage.

But Kholsa knew of his pain. He told Riven the story of Ragathiel's infernal beginnings, and how he endured the 800 unendurable things before he was accounted the foremost of heaven's generals.

In his words, Riven found peace.

Riven lvl 5:

Riven
Oni-Spawn Tiefling Monk (Master of Many Styles, Monk of the Sacred Mountain) 2/Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 3 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +4; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +13
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 23, touch 20, flat-footed 23 (+1 armor, +2 natural, +10 untyped)
hp 47 (5d8+15)
Fort +9, Ref +5, Will +12
Resist fire 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee unarmed strike +8 (1d8+5), Flurry +7/+7 (1d8+10, 1d8+7)
[b]Special Attacks
flurry of blows, ki flurry, ki speed, stunning fist (2/day, DC 17)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +2)
. . 1/day—alter self
Warpriest (Sacred Fist) Spells Prepared (CL 5th; concentration +10):
. . 1st—bless, divine favor, magic weapon, protection from evil
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light, read magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 20, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 20, Cha 5
Base Atk +3; CMB +8; CMD 28
Feats Dragon Ferocity[UC], Dragon Style[UC], Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Charge, Pummeling Style, Stunning Fist, Toughness
Traits magical knack, prolong magic
Skills Acrobatics +8, Heal +13, Perception +13, Sense Motive +13, Stealth +5
Languages Abyssal, Common, Infernal
SQ aura, blessed fortitude, blessings, blessings (destruction blessing, good blessing), destructive attacks +1, fervor 1d6, fiendish sprinter, fuse style, holy strike, ki defense, prehensile tail, stunning fist (stun), unarmed strike
Other Gear quarterstaff, belt of giant strength +2, bracers of armor +1, cloak of resistance +1, headband of inspired wisdom +2, warpriest's kit, 639 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura (Ex) The character has a strong aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Blessed Fortitude (Su) If you succeed at a Fort save for partial effect, take none instead.
Blessings (4/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Destructive Attacks +1 (Su) Touched ally gains a morale bonus to dam for 1 min.
Dragon Ferocity +2, 1d4+5 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Fervor 1d6 (6/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Fiendish Sprinter 10-ft speed bonus when using charge, run or withdraw.
Flurry of Blows +4/+4/-1 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Holy Strike (Su) Touched weapon deals +1d6 dam vs. evil foes for 1 min.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Defense +4 (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action, to gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 rd.
Ki Flurry (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to gain an extra Flurry of Blows attack.
Ki Speed (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to increase speed by 20 ft for 1 rd.
Magical Knack (Warpriest [Sacred Fist]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Prolong Magic Constant drills and preparation allow you to get more out of your innate magic. Whenever you use a spell-like ability gained through your tiefling heritage, it automatically acts as if affected by the Extend Spell metamagic feat.
Pummeling Charge When using Pummeling Style, make Pummeling Style atk at end of charge.
Pummeling Style As full-rd act, make normal full attack or flurry, adding all dmg together into 1 hit.
Stunning Fist (2/day, DC 17) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) Can apply different conditions when using stunning fist feat.
Unarmed Strike (1d8) Extra unarmed strike dam, no off-hand dam reduction and don't need free hands to att.

Note: Lvl 5 is where you should have both Dragon Ferocity and Pummeling Charge, you can basically just take warpriest levels now.

They said Ol'Kholsa shed no tears as Riven crossed the horizon on the bleak, winding path to Mendev.

"This is where he was meant to go. Ragathiel trusted me to raise him to be a weapon of justice, and that I did. A father could ask not for a better son."

Riven lvl 10:
Riven
Oni-Spawn Tiefling Monk (Master of Many Styles, Monk of the Sacred Mountain) 2/Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 8 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +18
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 26, flat-footed 28 (+2 armor, +1 Dex, +2 natural, +2 deflection, +1 dodge, +12 untyped)
hp 82 (10d8+20)
Fort +13, Ref +9, Will +18
Resist fire 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee quarterstaff +13/+8 (1d6+9) and
. . unarmed strike +15/+10 (1d10+7) Flurry: +15/+15/+10/+10 (1d10+13/1d10+9)
Special Attacks flurry of blows, ki flurry, ki speed, ki strike, cold iron/silver, ki strike, lawful, ki strike, magic, stunning fist (4/day, DC 21), channel positive energy 5/day (DC 20, 3d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 10th; concentration +7)
. . 1/day—alter self
Warpriest (Sacred Fist) Spells Prepared (CL 10th; concentration +16):
. . 3rd—bestow curse (DC 19), dispel magic, protection from energy
. . 2nd—bull's strength (2), lesser restoration, owl's wisdom, weapon of awe{super}APG{/super} (2, DC 18)
. . 1st—bless, divine favor (2), magic weapon (2), protection from evil
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light, read magic, stabilize
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 22, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 23, Cha 5
Base Atk +7; CMB +13; CMD 39
Feats Combat Style Master[UC], Crane Style[UC], Dodge, Dragon Ferocity[UC], Dragon Style[UC], Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Charge, Pummeling Style, Stunning Fist, Toughness, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
Traits magical knack, prolong magic
Skills Acrobatics +13, Climb +18, Heal +15, Perception +18, Sense Motive +18
Languages Abyssal, Common, Infernal
SQ aura, blessed fortitude, blessings, blessings (destruction blessing, good blessing), destructive attacks +4, fervor 3d6, fiendish sprinter, fuse style, holy strike, ki defense, ki insight, ki pool, prehensile tail, stunning fist (stun), unarmed strike
Other Gear quarterstaff, +1 sacred amulet of mighty fists, belt of giant strength +4, bracers of armor +2, cloak of resistance +3, headband of inspired wisdom +4, warpriest's kit, 1,639 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aura (Ex) The character has a strong aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Blessed Fortitude (Su) If you succeed at a Fort save for partial effect, take none instead.
Blessings (7/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Combat Style Master May switch styles as a free action
Crane Style Penalty when fighting defensively reduced to -2 and dodge bonus increases by 1.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Destructive Attacks +4 (Su) Touched ally gains a morale bonus to dam for 1 min.
Dragon Ferocity +3, 1d4+6 rds Gain bonus on unarmed attacks, and you can cause opponents to be shaken
Dragon Style +2 vs sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Fervor 3d6 (10/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Fiendish Sprinter 10-ft speed bonus when using charge, run or withdraw.
Flurry of Blows +9/+9/+4/+4/-1 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once. Starting a stance provided by a style feat is still a swift action, but whe
Holy Strike (Su) Touched weapon deals +1d6 dam vs. evil foes for 1 min.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Ki Defense +4 (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action, to gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 rd.
Ki Flurry (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to gain an extra Flurry of Blows attack.
Ki Insight +1 (Su) Use 1 ki to gain Insight bonus to AC for 1 min.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Speed (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to increase speed by 20 ft for 1 rd.
Ki Strike, Cold Iron/Silver (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Lawful (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as lawful to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Magical Knack (Warpriest [Sacred Fist]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Prolong Magic Constant drills and preparation allow you to get more out of your innate magic. Whenever you use a spell-like ability gained through your tiefling heritage, it automatically acts as if affected by the Extend Spell metamagic feat.
Pummeling Charge When using Pummeling Style, make Pummeling Style atk at end of charge.
Pummeling Style As full-rd act, make normal full attack or flurry, adding all dmg together into 1 hit.
Stunning Fist (4/day, DC 21) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) Can apply different conditions when using stunning fist feat.
Unarmed Strike (1d10) Extra unarmed strike dam, no off-hand dam reduction and don't need free hands to att.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 3d6 (5/day, DC 20) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.

Note: Just a lvl 10 build for those who are interested. I am unimpressed by the extra Style feats, because you have to take extra skills (which the Warpriest has very few points of) to qualify for them. I took something situationally useful (Crane style) and will probably continue on the feat path. In this case, Combat Style Master really is a must.

At 30 AC I must note that double wis to AC really doesn't seem to be as much of an issue as others were saying.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Lloyd Jackson wrote:

"At dawn, the cultist of Ragathiel drags one of the screaming orc children to the edge of camp. Suddenly, the cries cease. Walking back to the fire, the tiefling confronts him. What the hell was that? Giving the matter some thought, he replies A power up."

One wonders if this is actually the case for Ragathiel followers (I know its a joke, but just wondering all the same). Sure, the boon requires you to kill an evil-doer (doer, not thinker), but most followers of Ragathiel are chivalrous knights, Lawful Good chivalrous knights at that.

They probably are reasonably pleasant and polite individuals that have trained their entire lives to KILL THINGS. Much like members of special forces I would imagine.

I figure either they act as executioners as part of their Obedience in times of peace or during war, well the opportunities there for practicing the Obedience are probably daily.

prototype00


On all the others, AWESOME! (Hell's Rebels I'm especially looking forward to, the House of Thrune has had a good face crushing due for a while, and I'm just the PC to do it!)

On the fanservice thing, I say I'm all for equality. As many Bishie's as the ladies want (and throw in some barbarians in loincloths for variety), and chainmail bikinis and Seonis for us fellas.

(Maybe just split the art budget in 3, a third each for male fanservice, female fanservice and backgrounds/others).

prototype00


Eh, I'd rather not rely on a horse to be awesome.

prototype00


Even if they have full BaB when they flurry, and have full BaB when they charge due to pummeling style (basically full BaB all the time)?

prototype00


Ah, right, the guided enhancement allows you to use your wis bonus to hit. Sorry, my mistake. I thought it just allowed you to use it for damage.

Man, no wonder they don't allow it these days. :)

prototype00


What? No, Sensei allows you to use your wis to hit without wasting a feat on Channel Smite. (It allows you to use your wis with Monk weapons, and Crusader's Flurry makes the scimitar a monk weapon).

prototype00


Yeah, no doubt. Herolab doesn't list it since it isn't a PF (ish?) resource, but you can just tack on your wis mod to the damage there.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So I was trying to build something similar yesterday using the chassis of hungry ghost/sensei monk and Sacred fist warpriest.

The idea was to use a super high crit weapon (I was fishing for the katana and Shizuru (to get the repose domain), but the feats don't fall easily into place (EWP is a drag), so I advise scimitar instead with Seranrae.

Start with a super high wis (as you say) and a decent strength. Might have to pull some shennanigans to do that. Middle Aged Aasimar with Touch of Immortality might be better for that (to start with a 20 wisdom that is).

Hmm, here is a 10th level character I mocked up:

Sylar
Male Aasimar Monk (Hungry Ghost Monk, Sensei, Qinggong Monk) 6/Warpriest (Sacred Fist) 4 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Advanced Race Guide 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 0; Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 0)
LG Medium outsider (human, native)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +21
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 36, touch 31, flat-footed 33 (+2 armor, +2 Dex, +3 natural, +1 deflection, +1 dodge, +17 untyped)
hp 82 (10d8+20)
Fort +13, Ref +10, Will +19; +2 vs. death, +2 bonus vs. enchantment spells and effects
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 keen ki focus scimitar +17/+12 (Flurry +18/+18/+13) (1d6+5/15-20) and
. . unarmed strike +15/+10 (+16/+16/+11) (1d10+3)
Special Attacks inspire competence +2, inspire courage +2, flurry of blows, ki flurry, ki speed, ki strike, cold iron/silver, ki strike, lawful, ki strike, magic, steal ki, channel positive energy 5/day (DC 20, 1d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 10th; concentration +10)
. . 1/day—lesser age resistance
. . —barkskin (self only, 1 ki)
. . —scorching ray (2 ki)
Warpriest (Sacred Fist) Spells Prepared (CL 6th; concentration +14):
. . 2nd—lesser restoration, owl's wisdom (2)
. . 1st—bless, divine favor (2), moment of greatness{super}UC{/super}, protection from evil
. . 0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, light, read magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 26, Cha 10
Base Atk +7; CMB +12; CMD 41
Feats Crusader's Flurry[UC], Dazing Fist, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Lingering Performance[APG], Power Attack, Punishing Kick[APG], Weapon Focus (scimitar)
Traits heirloom weapon (proficiency), magical knack
Skills Acrobatics +15, Linguistics +12, Perception +21, Perform (oratory) +13, Sense Motive +21
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Celestial, Common, Daemonic, Elven, Gnome, Infernal, Sylvan, Tien
SQ advice, aura, blessed fortitude, blessings, blessings (good blessing, repose blessing), fervor 1d6, gentle rest, holy strike, immortal spark, insightful strike, ki defense, ki pool, maneuver training, mystic wisdom, scion of humanity, unarmed strike
Other Gear +1 keen ki focus scimitar, scimitar, belt of physical perfection +2, bracers of armor +2, cloak of resistance +2, headband of inspired wisdom +4, 3,820 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Advice (14 rounds/day) (Ex) A sensei's advice is identical to bardic performance (using oratory), allowing him to inspire courage at 1st level, inspire competence at 3rd level, and inspire greatness at 9th level, as a bard of the sensei's level, usable a total number of rounds
Advice: Inspire Competence +2 (Su) +2 competence bonus for one ally on a skill check.
Advice: Inspire Courage +2 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Aura (Ex) The character has a strong aura corresponding to his deity's alignment.
Barkskin (self only, 1 Ki) (Sp) Self Only. Costs 1 ki point to activate.
Blessed Fortitude (Su) If you succeed at a Fort save for partial effect, take none instead.
Blessings (5/day) (Su) Pool of power used to activate Blessing abilities.
Crusader's Flurry May use flurry of blows with deity's favored melee weapon
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Dazing Fist (DC 23) You can daze an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Fervor 1d6 (10/day) (Su) Standard action, touch channels positive/negative energy to heal or harm. Swift to cast spell on self.
Flurry of Blows +12/+12/+7/+7/+2 (Ex) As full-rd action, higher BAB and combo unarmed/monk wep as if two-weapon fighting.
Gentle Rest (Su) Touched living foe is staggered 1 rd (8 rds if undead). Sleep if already staggered.
Holy Strike (Su) Touched weapon deals +1d6 dam vs. evil foes for 1 min.
Immortal Spark You gain +2 to saves vs death.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Insightful Strike (Ex) At 2nd level, a sensei may use his Wisdom bonus in lieu of his Strength or Dexterity on attack rolls and combat maneuver checks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. This ability replaces evasion and the bonus feat gained at 2nd level.
Ki Defense +4 (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action, to gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 rd.
Ki Flurry (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to gain an extra Flurry of Blows attack.
Ki Pool (Su) You have a ki pool equal to 1/2 your monk level + your Wisdom modifier.
Ki Speed (Su) Use 1 ki as a swift action to increase speed by 20 ft for 1 rd.
Ki Strike, Cold Iron/Silver (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as cold iron and silver to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Lawful (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as lawful to overcome DR.
Ki Strike, Magic (Su) If you have ki remaining, unarmed strikes count as magic to overcome DR.
Lingering Performance Bardic Performances last 2 rds after you stop concentrating.
Magical Knack (Warpriest [Sacred Fist]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Maneuver Training (Ex) CMB = other BABs + Monk level
Mystic Wisdom (Su) At 6th level, a sensei may use his advice ability when spending points from his ki pool to activate a class ability (using the normal actions required for each) in order to have that ability affect one ally within 30 feet rather than the sense
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Punishing Kick (Push 5', 7/day, DC 23) You can push or knock down an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Scion of Humanity Count as a human for any effect related to race. Pass as human without using disguise.
Scorching Ray (2 Ki) (Sp) Costs 2 ki points to activate.
Steal Ki (Ex) If you confirm a critical or reduce a living enemy to 0 HP or less, restore 1 Ki point.
Unarmed Strike (1d10) Extra unarmed strike dam, no off-hand dam reduction and don't need free hands to att.
Warpriest Channel Positive Energy 1d6 (5/day, DC 20) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.

Sylar can steal ki on a crit and buff his allies with his "bardic music". Also has a good range of buffing spells to choose from (castable as a swift action) and ki abilities (barkskin for even more AC and scorching ray for some ranged punch).

Also, the Super AC and To hit from being a wisdom focused character.

prototype00


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:


1: Wasn't it decided you would get your wisdom to AC twice? Can't get both at 18 unless I drop another ability. Which I might do, but am always leery about having multiple low abilities.

It totally does add to it twice. But for non wis focused builds (which can get insane AC!) I tend to enjoy just evening out Str and Wis. I'm also just used to picking Versatile Human and getting +2 to two stats of my choice.

Quote:
2: Herolab wouldn't let me pick Dragon Ferocity for the Warpriest style feat. I haven't had time yet to look through the books and figure out why. I don't have People of the Sands for Horn of Criosphinx.

Yep, because Dragon Ferocity isn't technically a style feat (only the first feat in the tree is a style feat, the other two are combat feats). In my build, I picked Dragon Ferocity as a legit feat choice after raising acrobatics to 5.

Quote:
3: Didn't notice that it didn't list them. I took Good and Luck.

Not bad picks, I suppose. The summoning thing will come in useful (good outsiders are pretty beefy and good at buffing). I'm liking Travel as well but luck is pretty darn solid.

Quote:
4: I'm not definitely sold on Angel Blood and Angel Flesh. But I do like having resist 7 to all 4 energy types. And I am told Scion of Humanity lets me take human favored class bonuses which would net me 2 more combat feats by level 12.

Nice Catch! I didn't realize that there was a way that Sacred Fists could get bonus combat feats. That makes all kindsa stuff possible.

Quote:
5: Spells were just a quick skim through of what seemed interesting. I don't usually like prepared casters, but at least that makes immediate selection not very crucial. But does greater magic weapon work with unarmed strikes and doesn't the warpriest already get something for that? I will go look look back at that in a little while.

Greater Magic weapon will work with unarmed strikes, and the Warpriests lose their weapon buffing stuff to pick up all the punchy stuff in the Sacred Fist archetype.

prototype00


More like the Warpriest (Sacred Fist) was the "More Monk" here, or were you asking something else?

prototype00


Hmm... looks reasonably solid, some questions.

1: Why the super high wis and so so strength? (They can both be around 18 I figure at your level)

2: Why not pick up dragon ferocity instead of other style feats? With mroe strength you could do more damage. (Also, why no Horn of the Criosphnix pick, you are obviously from the region).

3: Which blessings did you take from Kurgess? I'm actually getting less sold on Strength due to the Enhancement tag, it doesn't stack with most things.

4: I'm not sure I agree with your feat choice in general, there are a couple of filler feats (Angel X). Were there not better choices (Like Horn of the Criosphinx)?

5: Spellwise, why not pick up greater magic weapon for your 3rd level slot, one casting lasts basically all day at your level and saves you money and item slots.

prototype00


w01fe01 wrote:
combat style master feat...its another feat, but can make it free action and you always start in one style.

Combat Style Master is even better than that, as it allows you to switch in other style feats as a free action. You are going to get free style feats anyway, might as well take some for utility.

prototype00


So shopping around for good deities to use, keeping in mind that the character has to be lawful and within one step of the deity...

Firstly for my money these are the best Blessings:

1. Strength: flurry of blows with half your level worth of bonus to every attack, woo hoo!

2. Destruction: You do how much bonus damage? For one whole minute?!!

3. Liberation: Freedom of movement from 1st level? Sweet! (Pity almost none of the lawful gods have this)

4. Protection: Small buffs to AC and saves, but it is a sacred bonus, which is super rare.

5. Luck: It is basically a roll twice and take the better roll, that lasts forever (or until used). Pretty nifty. The 10th level ability also screws opponents in basically the same way.

6. Repose: Auto sleep, no save (with quicken blessing). nuff said.

7. Travel Blessing: Low level is all right, but high level is teleport 20ft. Seriously, that is good!

8. Trickery Blessing: Mirror Image and Improved invisibility? Who died and made you the best blessing around?

9. War: Not bad small buffs that last for a minute. High level is meh, better if you can soak non-lethal damage.

Kurgess NG (Luck/Strength/Travel), Nivi Rhombodazzle N (Luck/Trickery), Chaldira Zuzaristan NG (Trickery/War) seem pretty all right... I'm probably missing some (but Kurgess probably is the stand out here).

prototype00


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Charender wrote:

As a general rule, you can only gain a bonus from a particular stat once no matter how they are typed.

Gaining wis and dex to damage, yes.
Gaining dex to damage twice, no.

Where is this "general rule" stated? I've looked earnestly for it in all the publications.

I have seen however seen the "unnamed bonuses from different sources stack rule".

prototype00


In this case I am referring to the rules governing natural attacks specifically:

Quote:
Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

- In this case you are attacking with the bite attack multiple times.

Normally if it is just a bite you have and you only attack with it once this is what governs it:

Quote:
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls.

If you flurry with the bite, you are attacking with it multiple attacks per round thus this applies:

Quote:
If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

(Which is 1x str bonus)

It is more a happy accident that that is also the amount of damage that flurry of blows attack do.

I might be wrong, but there doesn't seem to be any provision in the ability that allows it to break the basic assumptions governing natural attacks.

prototype00


EvilPaladin wrote:
Quote:
Few people want this feat gone, although there are arguments about how far it should stretch. I am conservative...since I am full of FEAR for its survival.
I too am afraid this feat might not survive. I mean, this book has been available to subscribers for what, a week? And already there are threads suggesting 2 levels of MoMS for pouncing punches. I hope if this becomes a common option they nerf MoMS instead of pulling another Crane Wing.

Oopsie! Was that me?

In my defense, I have advocated/assumed from the start that it be unarmed only and built around that.

prototype00


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hmm, *looks for a "Bonus (Wisdom)" in the OGC*:

Bonus (Alchemical)
Bonus (Armor)
Bonus (Circumstance)
Bonus (Competence)
Bonus (Deflection)
Bonus (Dodge)
Bonus (Enhancement)
Bonus (Insight)
Bonus (Luck)
Bonus (Morale)
Bonus (Natural Armor)
Bonus (Profane)
Bonus (Racial)
Bonus (Resistance)
Bonus (Sacred)
Bonus (Shield)
Bonus (Size)
Bonus (Trait)

These are all the sources of bonuses as listed in the rules. If something isn't here, (and please correct me if I am wrong, the Wisdom bonus is explicitly NOT here), then it is unnamed.

Quote:
Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

The wisdom bonus is from two different classes with two different names (Armor Bonus (Su) and Armor Bonus (Ex)) and they have different effects (dodge vs deflection). They patently cannot be the same source.

I know I'm probably not convincing you, but I like showing my work. Strict RAW, the bonuses stack.

prototype00


The normal strength you would use for the flurry, that is 1x str bonus.

prototype00


Diminuendo wrote:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=385?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Qu estions-Here#19247

You can claim that JJ isn't a rules guy but you dont have to be a rules guy to see this is an unfair exploit. If your GM allows it great, but If they say no dont be supprised.

GMs can rule anything they like in their campaign, from the sky being green to wizards not having spells.

Here, I like to talk RAW.

Quote:
Just curious Prototype, how well would you say Sacred Fist synergizes with the typical Monk/Druid builds in place of/addition to the monk?

Hmmm, not great, unfortunately. Flurry is only useful for certain Feral combat training builds (like the hungry, hungry, hippo) so you could use it there I suspect.

Losing out on monastic legacy also prevents you from reaching the highest (12d8) level of unarmed damage.

prototype00


Really? Link please.

prototype00

Edit: Ah if you mean unwritten rules as stated by JJ, then hasn't he said in no uncertain terms that he isn't the rules guy and the stuff he says shouldn't be taken as da rulez?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Seranov wrote:

I was actually trying to build the same thing: Dwarven Sacred Fist Warpriest

Any thoughts? It seems like we were going in the same general direction, but you're much more experienced with building monk-type characters than I am. D:

Hey, I came to the same conclusions as you did. :) What were you looking for? Moar AC? Damage? (You could make a really wicked wis focused character with guided fist for a Sacred Fist of Irori, but then you would be giving up the damage from dragon style).

Actually, wis isn't bad. You could start with a Monk (Sensei)2/Warpriest X of Shizuru for the Katana, and then pick up crusader's flurry which turns the Katana into a monk weapon, which you can then flurry with your wis bonus as per the Sensei Insightful strike ability. Best part? Not having to take that awful Channel Smite feat to take guided hand.

Now if you are a Monk (Sensei/Hungry Ghost/Qinggong) you are rolling in the ki points and can do all kinds of funky mystic stuff all while buffing yourself as a swift action thanks to the Warpriest. Hmm, start with a gnome, and you even have Zen Koan for days!

Quote:
Question: no where in Sacred Fist does it say Flurry of Blows counts warpriest levels as Monk levels. Several other bonuses explicitly mention this. Is this just a mistake or are there rules where gaining another classes feature uses your class in place of the intended one?

Not that I know of.

prototype00


Previously admitted printing mistake.

Congratulations! You now have a piece of gaming history. :)

prototype00


Apocalypse Cow wrote:


My worry is just a pouncing 7 attacks (focused into 1) with 1.5x str dmg. Outside of the perma-banned Synthesist archetype- was something like this normal before?

Eh, 7 attacks, thats only at around level 16, and the casters are throwing around 8th level spells. Is hitting 4 times worth an 8th level spell?

Basically, it doesn't allow you to make more attacks than you could normally make, just allows you to skirmish with it. The crit thing is nice, but if it is unarmed only, it isn't a concern until higher level.

Also, mistake, its 2.5x Str Mod with Horn of the Criosphinx on a charge.

prototype00

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