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ohako's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 633 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Isn't the ring of invisibility grossly overpriced already anyway?

'Harry, why do you keep shouting 'Obfuscato!' every three minutes? Argus Flich'll hear you for sure!'

I'll take my chances.

this is what I get for searching 'decoy ring' in just the rules questions forum. meh. I'm FAQing this anyway. I'm with you in any case: this ring isn't a unitasker, in the same way that 'expeditious retreat' is just a euphemism. I'll throw in the section on invisibility the condition, which this ring appears to grant you

Invisibility as a state of being

and again as a condition

Core Rulebook wrote:
Invisible: Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents' Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). See Invisibility, under Special Abilities.

Nowhere in there does it say you lose it if you use it. Your victim does pinpoint you if you're in melee, though.

5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Decoy Ring

The ring doesn't say what kind of invisibility you get, and the spell the ring is based on is mislead. For reference, here's the

Ring of Invisibility

which explicitly references the spell invisibility, including its limitations.

So, the question: does a decoy ring give you invisibility per mislead (which in turn references greater invisibility), or regular old 'invisibility, as the spell'?

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Decoy Ring: This ring is a thick loop of mirrorlike metal. Whenever the wearer of this ring takes the withdraw action or becomes helpless (including falling unconscious), it instantly makes her invisible for 3 rounds and creates four illusory duplicates that either run off in opposite directions or perform other plausible actions that could draw enemy attention away from her. The duplicates last for 3 rounds before disappearing, but they instantly pop out of existence if struck by an attack (AC 10) and can be disbelieved (Will DC 19). Allies of the wearer always know her true location and can freely provide aid or assistance to her.

a) the ring's power is based on mislead, which in turn acts like greater invisibility. This is the only source of consumable-free greater invisibility I've ever seen.

b) the ring is great for a melee rogue. If you can't position yourself in the perfect spot during your 'withdraw' round, and kill your target in the next 2, then you're doing it wrong.
c) illusionary duplicates! who cares! enemy-only invisibility! also ridiculous! a mislead effect contingent on dropping into negatives (ie, right when you need it)! don't provoke when withdrawing from a creature with reach! craziness!
d) the ring costs 12K gp. That's 8K cheaper than a ring of invisibility!

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Sniper Goggles: The leather strap attached to these bulbous lenses allows their wearer to fit them to his head. The wearer of these goggles can make ranged sneak attacks from any distance instead of the normal 30 feet. When making ranged sneak attacks within 30 feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak attack damage die., if only I had a consumable-free, repeatable source of greater invisibility...oh wait! the goggles cost 20K, and now they're worth it! also: call yourself GOGGALOR

Best of all, no feats! You want to play some total fruitcake build, or The Conqueror Ooze, or whatever, go for it! But some feats can make this even better

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
Parting Shot: Once per encounter, when using the withdraw action, you can make a single ranged attack at any point during your movement.

Use with a dart in the ol' spring-loaded wrist sheath. Too bad you need 4 feats before this one. Also, once per encounter? wha?

Pathfinder Society Primer wrote:

Cut Your Losses: Whenever you withdraw as a full-round action and have at least one free hand, you can pick up one unattended object or unconscious ally of your size or smaller at any point during your movement without provoking attacks of opportunity. Any additional movement performed on your turn still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.

In addition, you treat your Strength score as 2 higher for the purpose of determining your carrying capacity.


oh, you know, this is cute

Favored enemy (core races)
Favored enemy (featured races) (even though some of these are outsiders)
Favored enemy (uncommon races)

I could see that as a good compromise. Although, take favored enemy core races and find out the campaign involves infiltrating the Kitty Cat Empire or something...

how about the top halfling being a summoner, and the bottom half is a Small Eidolon?

eh, this calls for a little rules bending here, because a small eidolon can only be ridden by a tiny rider, and you can't apply the mount evolution to a bipedal eidolon. so what? take Undersized Mount and call it a day.

say you're suffering paralysis. okay, how can you get out of it?

you can take 'purely mental' actions, such as a spell with no components. So like a Stilled, Silent remove paralysis spell would work.

What won't work: lay on hands with the paralysis mercy (you need to touch with your hands)
Also no good: the feat Word of Healing with the paralysis mercy (you have to be able to speak)

So other than a heavily metamagicked up spell, or possibly a contingency, are there any other ways to pull this off?

In other words, how to unlock a 'lock in' effect?

hmm, bumping this. Is cutting someone with a sword considered 'deformation'? What if you give your opponent a beautiful scar? Failing that, how about bruising? Can you bruise someone (using nonlethal damage) and avoid deforming them?

Azoriel wrote:
Was the aim just to have an unarmored greatsword wielding paladin, or did you have something more specific in mind? If you wanted to optimize lay on hands, I'd consider a tiefling (for the favored class bonus) with the fey foundling feat. (If I could do this without taking the fiendish heritage feat, I'd make it a demon-spawn one.)

I was aiming for an unarmored paladin with a greatsword.

a) I looked at mystery cultist to get the 2nd boon faster, but that class gives up so much against the paladin that I decided it wasn't worth it. Until level 16, I'd just wear some full plate.
b) I was then looking at 'paladin-only' feats, because if you're going to play a paladin, why not go whole hog? The best of the bunch seems to be Ultimate Mercy, which nets you raise dead for cheap. That popped in the other feat pieces and the archetype choice.

Yeah, if I was really Solanging it up, I'd probably grab a level of oracle (lunar maybe?), and go Temple Guardian with the Nobility domain.

Peet wrote:
The trick with the low CON is the possibility of getting one-shotted by a crit, especially if you are taking other hits before that. At level 12 this build will have about 83 HP. Getting CON to 16 and putting FCB into hp brings it up to 119. A big jump. Since you are not planning to use a shield you will get hit fairly often, and you can only lay on hands during your action.

Good point.

Ultimate Magic wrote:
Prerequisites: Cha 19, Greater Mercy, lay on hands, mercy class feature.

So, it looks like I don't need to be level 11, just some level I can reasonably expect to have 10 lay on hands

18 cha: 4 LoH
6 levels of paladin: 3 LoH
the extra feat: 2 LoH
4th level warrior of holy light: 1 LoH

that's 10 by level 6, just in time for the feat at level 7. And without a headband even.

I liked the energy resistance because it's something different, but hit points for this character are really appealing. I think skating a 12 Con for a melee character could work with all the LoH shots.

here's a start, where next?

race: dual-talented human
class: warrior of the holy light paladin 12 (of Arshea)
favored class bonus: 4 acid resistance, 4 cold resistance, 4 electricity resistance
traits: muscle of the society, charming
starting stats: Str 18, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 18

1: Noble Scion (war)
3: Extra Lay on Hands
5: Greater Mercy
7: Ultimate Mercy
9: Radiant Charge (woof this feat is poor)
11: Celestial Obedience (Arshea)

aiming for eventually, what? swinging a greatsword without wearing armor, uh...glowing?

I like the concept of a greatsword-wielding paladin of Arshea. I like getting enough LoH shots to be able to raise dead by level 8 (level 7 with a +2 headband). I like the concept of the Cut Your Losses feat, but I'd never take it on purpose. I like the idea of the mystery cultist prestige class, but unless the level 3 boon lets you shoot death rays from your eyes it's not worth it for a paladin. So what else is good?

you can also take the feat 'Monstrous Mount', to get access to some different critters, and you can pile that on with Mammoth Rider

So, riding a Huge griffon say, or a Huge worg if you're true neutral

@kestral good point. however, this build gets flurry of cards instead of spell combat. not the best trade, but I'll take it. Dodge is a prereq for Close-Quarters Thrower. I threw that feat in because it's on the list of 'ranger style thrown weapon' feats.

Here's this, it sounds better than pure 1-and-1 scaling: 7 levels of magus, 4 of monk, 1 of fighter

archetypes for magus: kensai, card caster
archetypes for monk: far strike
archetypes for fighter: eh, doesn't matter. mobile fighter? not unarmed.

the first feat in the pile is a non-bonus feat, if applicable

magus 1: Dodge, Weapon Focus (cards), Deadly Dealer, Skill Focus (fortuneteller)
monk 1: Precise Shot, Improved Unarmed Strike, Quick Draw
magus 2: Close-Quarters Thrower
monk 2: Point-Blank Shot
magus 3: False Opening, role dealer
monk 3: nothing! (Invisible Blade? eh...)
magus 4: Perfect Style (House of Unfolding Wind)
monk 4: Shot on the Run
magus 5: Mobility, Parting Shot
magus 6: ki arcana
magus 7: Weapon Specialization (cards)
fighter 1: Unfolding Wind Strike

how's this?


People seem to like the far strike monk archetype, although woe betide those who need to purchase a dozen enchanted daggers.
People seem to like throwing cards, but man, cards? bluh, why not just use darts?

Can we combine the two?

race: half-elf
class: card caster magus 6/far strike monk 6, interleaving classes 1-and-1, a true multiclass
traits: Magical Knack, Harrow-Chosen
stats: no clue

feats (and a magus arcana)
1: Skill Focus (fortunetelling), Deadly Dealer (bonus magus), Point-Blank Shot
2: Improved Unarmed Strike, Quick Draw, Precise Shot (all bonus from monk)
3: Dodge
4: Far Shot (bonus from monk)
5: Weapon Focus (cards)
6: role dealer (the not-an-arcana you get at card caster 3)
7: Close-Quarters Thrower
8: Shot On the Run (bonus from monk)
9: False Opening, Perfect Style (Unfolding Wind) (bonus from magus)
10: nothing!
11: Arcane Strike (I guess), ki arcana (magus arcana)
12: Improved Precise Shot (bonus from monk)

Question #1: There's a lot of slack feat choices I just busted out because it's 1 in the morning EST. How do I make this wackiness better?

If you're playing Mouse Guard, doing this denies you entry into heaven.

good game, everyone!

Inner Sea Combat wrote:
Code of Conduct: Respect the innate beauty in all things, and strive to preserve it from corruption and perversion. Never willfully cause damage to crafted objects or works of art, nor cause a creature or object to be deformed in any way.

Can you still, you know, stab a bad guy with a sword? Or does this pretty much mean you're stuck with non-lethal or non-violent attacks (grapple, trip, etc.)

Saldiven wrote:
ohako wrote:
a kitsune could take Magical Tail 3 times, and get the arcane spells requirement out of the way at level 5. I think?
In theory, yes, but I have things I'd rather have for feats, such as Skill Focus: Enchantment and the feats that allow Kitsune to change shape into virtually any humanoid form and do it as a swift action.

gee, I dunno, Magical Tail (disguise self), close enough, yeah?

a kitsune could take Magical Tail 3 times, and get the arcane spells requirement out of the way at level 5. I think?

bumpily bump?

okay, that's kind of funky

a counterfeit mage sanctified rogue of Picoperi, duel-wielding a signature wand and a blowgun (a 'wand of darts')

not where I was thinking, but a cool idea nonetheless.

So, the favored weapon of the empyreal lord Picoperi is the blowgun. He's sort of a demigod of jokes. Like if Kobal from In Nomine was a good guy.

What sorts of hijinks can you get up to with a blowgun? Looking for feats, spells, magic item properties, poisons, tactics, you name it, that lets you pull pranks (or at least non-lethal mayhem) with a blowgun.

so sad, the aasimars and tieflings have all gone home. How now to early-access the mystic theurge? Magical Tail!

race: kitsune
class: ecclesitheurge cleric 2 (of Picoperi), wildblooded sorcerer 3, mystic theurge 7
domains: Trickery (primary), Chaos (secondary)
bloodline: Celestial (Empyreal)
stats: Str 7, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 13
1: Magical Tail
3: Magical Tail
5: Magical Tail (this gives you misdirection, which fulfils the arcane prestige class requirements)
7: (off the rails here) Point-Blank Shot
9: Precise Shot
11: Weapon Focus (blowgun)

1. Access at 3/2. Not the best by planetouched standards, but good nonetheless.
2. A mix of prepared and spontaneous casting.
3. 5th level arcane and divine spells.
4. SAD casting (Wisdom)
5. Sorta kinda on-theme (holy trickster foxman of heaven!)

1. 3 feats
2. All the other weird cons that you get with a mystic theurge
3. Race does not come with a +Wis bonus.

Some questions

1. Any improvements to the general concept? I hadn't seen Magical Tail mentioned in a mystic theurge guide, is that good to go?
2. What to do with the feats at 7, 9, and 11?
3. Picoperi's favored weapon is the blowgun. Okay, so how to make that great? The only poison that seemed on-message was bloodroot, and that still deals Con damage. What kind of poisons, tricks, blowgun powers, whatever, would be good for the demigod of jokes?

hmm, you used an interesting phrase twice back there 'potentially elastic'. What does that mean, if a thing is 'potentially elastic'?

If you wanted a power in the game like what FCT might do, how would you write it to avoid potential elasticity and vagueness?

Mark Seifter wrote:
good stuff

Fair enough. Thanks for taking the time.

Hi Mark,

Here are a bag of white-haired witch questions. Feel free to quote the Wizard of Oz at me instead of answering them.

1. Is the free grapple attempt you get after hitting with that the 'grab' monster power?
2. If it is grab, then does the size of grab-able targets increase as your hair gets longer, or only if your size increases?
3. Are the constrict, trip, and pull riders swift actions or free actions?
4. When you grapple with your hair, is that performing a combat maneuver with a weapon, for the purposes of Weapon Finesse? (and, say, adding the bonus from an amulet of mighty fists to your grapple check?)
5. Here's a scenario that depends on yes to the last question

a) a white-haired witch with Weapon Finesse get +Int to CMB when initiating a grapple with her hair, and (hopefully) gets +Dex to her CMB when maintaining the grapple.
b) let's say her grappling target turns the tables on her. She gains the grappled condition (where she didn't have it before).

Can she still use +Dex to grapple? Or does she now need to use +Str? If she decides to attack with her hair while grappled, and succeeds on her grapple check, is the grapple condition on her effectively broken? (because she's using her hair and not her limbs anymore)

6. If you grapple a creature at range, the target is forced to move adjacent to the witch. Does this movement provoke attacks of opportunity, and if so, from who?
7. A witch isn't grappled when grappling with her hair. Even though the target is forced to move adjacent to her after the grapple is initiated, she's not forced to stay adjacent, is she? Could she move away from the target? If so, how far?
8. A witch casts a touch spell while grappling someone with her hair. Can she discharge the spell automatically? Can she discharge it by using the constrict special ability?
9. At what point are you forced to release a grapple? When you use whatever action you'd otherwise need to maintain it, or at the end of your turn having not maintained it?
10. Can a white-haired witch tie up a pinned target with her hair? If so, what does that mean for the witch, in terms of movement and conditions?
11. A white-haired witch's hair is unsunderable. Does that mean that 'hair ropes' used to tie someone up are unbreakable? Could a sufficiently high-level witch weave a short rope bridge out of their hair? with the appropriate craft check, I guess
12. A white-haired witch/monk multiclass with the feat Feral Combat Training can attack with her hair more than once a round. Can she grapple or constrict more than one target with a full-round attack?
13. The special section of the Feral Combat Training Feat refers to a monk's flurry of blows special ability. Will Feral Combat Training enable a witch/brawler in the same fashion?

I think 13 is a witchy number of questions on the subject, don't you?

While you'll still need to use Animal Ally, may I suggest the animal speaker archetype? You get to talk to your AC, very handy.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

uh, here's a silly question: can you use the feat Improvisation instead?

Advanced Race Guide wrote:
Improvisation: You gain a +2 bonus on all skill checks for skills you have no ranks in. Furthermore, you can use all trained skills untrained.

lemeres wrote:

I would get power attack in there somewhere. I am unsure of the exact nature of how the 1 natural weapon rule interacts with feral combat training and flurry...

But there is a rule that you get 1.5x STR (or Int, in this case) and power attack damage when you only have 1 natural weapon. So if that carries over, you are getting a ton of extra damage across your whole flurry of blows/brawler's flurry. x3 power attack across your fake TWF- plus, you hit as hard as a 2 hander, which is great for DR.

I know it is hard to fit into your build, but it seems worth it.

Oh, another method- Magus. You have to spend an arcana to get your spell strike to work with hair, but it is an option. So 1 natural attack+ 1 spell strike + 1 (haste- various ways to get it). Again, your hair hits like a 2 handed weapon, so this is still fairly good. Add in the nova power of magus, and you are set.

Pretty sure the flurry +Str to damage rule overrides the 1 natural attack rule. It's +Str to damage (or in the WHW's case, +Int) across the board, no modifiers. Plus I'm pretty sure that even if you do get +1.5xStr to a natural attack, you're only getting a -1/+2 trade with it, not -1/+3.

It's an idea that I hadn't considered. I'm not entirely sure that I want to trade attack bonus for anything, but it's certainly an idea.

for a while now, my default idea of making an awesome white-haired witch revolves around 2 ideas

1. figuring out a way to attack more than once a round with your hair
2. having a good base attack bonus

all while still being good at, you know, spellcasting. This more or less dictated trying to use the Eldritch Knight prestige class. Here's a build

white-haired witch 4/sohei monk 1/white-haired witch 1/eldritch knight 6
traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
patron: Strength (for divine favor)
1: Weapon Finesse
3: Weapon Focus (hair)
5: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Feral Combat Training (hair)
7: Boar Style, Boar Ferocity
9: Boar Shred
11: Greater Grapple, Weapon Specialization (hair)

however, I recently turned my eye to the evangelist prestige class, because

a) this way you get longer hair, strangling grappling, and divine power
b) the above build means you need to be lawful alignment (to satisfy requirements for sohei), and the original movie the Bride with White Hair is very much a Calistria sort of deal. Here's a new build

white-haired witch 3/snakebite striker brawler 2/evangelist of Calistria 7 (aligned class: witch)
traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
patron: Strength
1: Weapon Finesse
3: Deific Obedience (Calistria)
4: Improved Unarmed Strike
5: Weapon Focus (hair), Feral Combat Training (hair)

Note: Feral Combat Training with brawler's flurry is probably okay, but I'm not 100% convinced it's kosher

7: Boar Style
9: Boar Ferocity
11: Boar Shred

1. You lose the grapple feats. Not a huge loss, because you still have a crab familiar, extreme flexibility, a brawling haramaki, and your amulet of mighty fists (grappling with a weapon is beautiful)
2. You lose Weapon Specialization.
3. You gain divine power.
4. You can use a mithral buckler
5. You lose 1 level of spellcasting.
6. You gain all the boon goodies. Calistria's aren't terrible, but saving finale or a Cha-based rainbow pattern does you no favors
9. Your base attack bonus (at least at level 12) is the same: +8

...I think this build is worth it. What do you think?

So, say I'm a witch evangelist of Calistria. I get saving finale 3/day (as long as I fulfill my obedience). Is there any way I can use it?

I'm not Lemmy, but how about Feral Combat Training?

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Thanks to the brawler's martial training class feature, Feral Combat Training's Special section can read like this

Ultimate Combat plus Advanced Class Guide wrote:
Special: If you are a [brawler], you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Does martial training also give you this?

Ultimate Combat plus Advanced Class Guide plus squinting wrote:
Special: If you are a [brawler], you can use the selected natural weapon with your [brawler's flurry] class feature.

okay, my question is more or less the same, but I want to ask it a different way.

Here's my years-old white-haired witch build

white-haired witch 5/sohei monk 1/eldritch knight 6

You take Feral Combat Training (hair) in order to full attack with your hair. Fine. Relatively well-understood. Here's a new concept

white-haired witch 3/brawler 2/evangelist 7

Same base attack bonus at the end, and you get one level less of spells, but the good bit is more reach and for a Strength-patron witch, divine power. Not to mention whatever boon and the evangelist goodies.

You still want Feral Combat Training (hair), but the catch is you don't have flurry of blows: you have brawler's flurry.

Very simply: does this work?

So here's an idea

1. Get a familiar. Say, a crab.
2. Buy some platinum cipher rings for XX gp

Now, cipher rings are made out of wood, and cost 10gp for two. The platinum rings you need for shield companion cost 50gp.

3. Use alchemical glue to stick one of the rings to your crab. Don't glue the cipher bits shut while you're at it.
4. Write a chalk message in code somewhere where bright young adventurers can find it.
5. Have your familiar go find these adventurers (preferably while they're staring at your coded chalk message).

So, how much do platinum cipher rings cost?

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Here's a question: where is the love?

1. How come there is no oracle mystery of love?
2. How come no spiritualist's phantom's emotional focus is love (a la the movie 'Ghost')?
3. How come there is no witch's patron of Love? (u, I dunno, if Glinda was actually a nice person, maybe that would be her patron?)
4. I have no idea what a 'love bloodline' would look I'm not going to ask that question...

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I have just started playing a little with a character like this. He's going to be an Arcane Trickster. He is going to have the Coax Information Rogue Talent and a Mask of Stony Demeanor, which gives you a +10 on Bluff Checks to Lie.

He'll make heavy use of Disguise, and Change Self, and you won't even know he's there.

He'll Vanish a lot and cast ray spells: ranged touch attacks vs. flatfooted AC with Sneak Attack Damage.

"Sir, could you take off that weird mask? I think you're trying to lie to me."

"No I'm not."

nicholas storm wrote:
Narrow frame is a feat for your companion, not PC. You can get one combat teamwork feat from combat trick.

maybe I just want to be really skinny!

::goes and eats one of those ding-dong cupcake things::

good catch

okay, trying to do this with pack tactics without retraining

1: Mounted Combat
H: Combat Expertise
3: Nature Soul
5: Animal Ally
7: Pack Flanking
9: Pack Tactics
11: Narrow Frame

then the slayer talents could be

2: TWF
4: ???
8: ???
10: GTWF
12: ???

3 slayer talents clear, but you do basically get to flank whenever you want. Maybe take combat trick (Precise Strike) for an extra +1d6? If there's some nutty way to gain a teamwork feat as a slayer talent, you could pile them on with this combo.

claudekennilol wrote:
ohako wrote:

Huh. So, say, you had a daring champion cavalier with Spirited Charge, they could triple (with a lance in one hand, naturally)

a) their regular weapon damage
b) their challenge damage
c) their precise strike damage (assuming a daring champion has a 'swashbuckler level')


Anyway, good point, something else should go there instead of Spirited Charge. How about Narrow Frame then Boon Companion?

Precise Strike damage isn't multiplied on a crit, either.


Precise Strike (Ex):

At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or onehanded piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn’t multiplied on a critical hit.

The Spirited Charge multiply isn't a critical hit. If it was, heck, I'd pile on a ton of those 'critical' rider feats onto it. Precise Strike is multiplied on a lance charge, or a spirited charge, or both.

nicholas storm wrote:
you might be better off taking pack tactics (from Advanced Class Origins) instead of depending on the vanguard ability. Pack tactics gives all of you teamwork feats to your animal companion (but it doesn't benefit from those feats; only you and your companions do).

Nice catch! I guess...that means I wouldn't need to use the Vanguard archetype to grant my AC Pack Flanking, I just need to find space for one more feat. Hmm. That's actually an awesome feat, but it presents a problem

1. earliest you can take Animal Ally is 4th, but it's effectively 5th.
2. Pack Tactics and Pack Flanking aren't combat feats, which means it's hard to get both before 9th level.

Is there any way to get Animal Ally at exactly 4th level? That way you could be online at 7th, and all the time too, no 1/day silliness.

Huh. So, say, you had a daring champion cavalier with Spirited Charge, they could triple (with a lance in one hand, naturally)

a) their regular weapon damage
b) their challenge damage
c) their precise strike damage (assuming a daring champion has a 'swashbuckler level')


Anyway, good point, something else should go there instead of Spirited Charge. How about Narrow Frame then Boon Companion?

The Dragon wrote:
Spirited charge doesn't work like that. Only doubles stuff that'd be doubled on a crit.

really? where does it say that?

Core Rulebook wrote:
Spirited Charge: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).

Here goes.

A vanguard has both tactical teamwork feat sharing, and sneak attack

Advanced Class Guide wrote:
Pack Flanking: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

So here's a build

race: human
class: vanguard slayer 12
feats and slayer talents all mixed up

1: Mounted Combat
H: Combat Expertise
2: Tactician, taking Precise Strike
3: Nature Soul
4: Vanguard's Bond
5: Animal Ally, getting a horse
6: Ranger Combat Style TWF, taking Two-Weapon Fighting
7: Pack Flanking
8: Ranger Combat Style TWF, taking Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9: Ride-By Attack
10: Ranger Combat Style TWF, taking Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
11: Spirited Charge
12: Tactician 2/day

1. as long as you're riding your horse, you get flanking for free once or twice per day.
2. You have, what, +4d6 sneak attack
3. And you get 6 attacks
4. And if, Norgorber forbid, your foe is somehow far away from you, you can use Spirited Charge and get +8d6 sneak attack on your one hit

How's this?

EDIT: Adoptive Parentage replaces the bonus feat, oops

hmm, okay, let's try a full feat list

stats: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 14
(the Int 8 will be offset by the 6 skill points coming from Evangelist)
might take the Courageous trait over Indomitable Faith for RP reasons
3 FCB points go into Knowledge (religion), the other 2 to hit points

1: Weapon Focus (rapier)
H: Fencing Grace
1B: Weapon Finesse-ish
1B: Precise Strike (the teamwork feat)
3: Deific Obedience (of Erastil)
5: Combat Reflexes
7: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
7B: Battle Cry (the cavalier bonus feat 1 level late from entering evangelist)
9: Improved Critical (just barely!)
10B: Seize the Moment (1 level off bonus teamwork feat)
11: Iron Will

bump Diplomacy every level
use 3 FCBs to get Knowledge (religion)
Once you get 5 skills per level, put them into
Knowledge (history)
Knowledge (nobility)

let's see: the standard challenge damage, precise strike damage, +Dex damage, monster diplomacy powers, a little CLW, and summon nature's ally V at 11th level. time to put on a cape!

what do you think?

hmm, Diplomacy is the associated skill of the Infernal bloodline. Eh, perhaps Improved Eldritch Heritage is not so good for this character!

Be my buddy, or suffer hellfire! nah...not so much...

So, after my 'where is the love?' post about the OA spiritualist phantoms all being Grouchy Guses, I decided to try and figure out what would make a good peaceful hero-type

race: silver tongued human
class: daring champion cavalier 5/evangelist of erastil 7
cavalier order: blue rose
traits: Patient Optimist, Indomitable Faith
abilities: meh Str, high Dex, decent Con, dump Int, low Wis, decent Cha

so, massive crazy diplomancy: two chances to shift a creature from hostile to friendly

1: Weapon Focus (rapier)
H: Fencing Grace

now what? what are good feats (combat, teamwork, or otherwise) for someone who wants to be friends with everybody?

yeah, I think someone's right on the money with the skill selection, and either a bard with Spellsong or a Rakshasa sorcerer is the way to go to disguise/hide spellcasting

maybe go with Combat Expertise/Improved Feint, and kill people with a twilight knife in combat.

LazarX wrote:
ohako wrote:

This is feedback of a general nature. Therefore, into the Rules Discussion forum go I. I suppose my question is this: are there nice emotions a phantom can be based off of? (Love being a perennially underserved favorite of mine)

In Thassilonian sin magic terms, zeal is the 'positive' reflection of sloth. Since sloth is traditionally a 'deadly sin', that makes zeal a good thing. Although the zeal phantom does seem a little OCD, perhaps.

You seem to have a mistaken view of Thassilonian sin magic. Sin magic was not an evil perversion of good, but more like an evil perversion of something that was a bit less evil. (Xin wasn't exactly an Arthurian nice guy.) When Xin created the Runelord of "Love" it was more in the spirit of Orwell's "Ministry of Love". Just as we use the term "Peacemaker" for a missile carrying atomic warheads. It's probably a key reason why the Runelords he created as lieutenants, went rogue so quickly... they were the same kind of ambitious bastard he was.

It seems that the intention of the spiritualist is that the Phantom is essentially a spirit kept from moving on because of it's dark baggage, it's meant to give the class a grounding in a horror theme.

I personally think it's a refreshing change from EVERY OTHER pet class in the game, a "pet" that's not your slavering loyal lapdog, or a reflection of your psyche, or your best buddy. Something that clearly has it's own agenda and it's not a nice one.

Sin magic goop aside, I like your use of 'dark baggage'. I'm so glad someone brought that up.

So, let's say that Whoopi Goldberg is a spiritualist and Patrick Swayze is her phantom. What is Patrick Swayze's emotional focus? It's not one of playtest ones, that's for sure.

James Jacobs wrote:
This forum is for general discussion of the playtest process, announcements, and updates. If you have feedback of a general nature, not necessarily tied to actual playtest feedback, please post that feedback in the Rules Discussion forum. All feedback tied directly to actual playtesting should be posted in the Playtest Feedback forum.

This is feedback of a general nature. Therefore, into the Rules Discussion forum go I. I suppose my question is this: are there nice emotions a phantom can be based off of? (Love being a perennially underserved favorite of mine)

In Thassilonian sin magic terms, zeal is the 'positive' reflection of sloth. Since sloth is traditionally a 'deadly sin', that makes zeal a good thing. Although the zeal phantom does seem a little OCD, perhaps.

So, please forgive me, but I'm just looking through all the phantom choices, and here's what we got


1. Okay, so, these look a little like thassilonian magic schools (4 negative, 1 positive). All well and good. Maybe that's the idea, and the final book will have all 7 (although if OA is a hardcover, what, the Lust phantom will be called the 'dancing hall' phantom).
2. The second thing out of my head is this quote

Yoda wrote:
Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

Uh, basically, where is the spirit of love? And, okay, I know the game is Pathfinder, not Oubliettes and Ogres, but there's seriously a lot of negative emotions to use to beat up bad guys: whatever happened to the opposite end of the scale?

Yes, I suppose one could play an inquisitor of Love, but a) there's no 'Love' inquisition, and b) a lot of the inquisitor's powers involve being grouchy at people.

For that matter, why no 'love' oracle mystery? Surely love is mysterious, just as much as nature or metal, right?

there are some magic items that boost your CMB, there's gloves of something something, some sort of bracer, and sticking a particular ioun stone into a wayfinder. There's also now the spell 'extreme flexibility'. You can also get a crab familiar somehow.

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