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really? I can't have two arms for grappling (which avoids the -4), and another holding a dan bong (which gives you a +2, not that you're actually hitting anyone with it). That doesn't work now?
Or, how about two-handing a, I dunno, a spear, and saving an arm for Crane Style? Or Snapping Turtle Clutch? Or Archon Style?
If you're grappling someone, presumably you're doing that with two arms. You've got an arm or two free to use Snapping Turtle Clutch, right? (You're not gaining a free immediate action, you're just using a power that you otherwise couldn't use). Once you have two bad guys in a grapple, well, unless you get two grapple checks in the round, you'll have to let one of them go, I suppose. Same as if you full-attack with white witch hair.
That's a no go, really?
one concept I have kicking around is a monk who uses extra arms to
a) do funky things in combat
anyway, you can get those extra arms by putting a 2 dip into alchemist, and taking the Vestigial Arm discovery twice. Now, monk and alchemist really don't go together, but you could go mutagenic mauler brawler instead of monk, and that works out as well as can be.
alchemist (archetype??) 2/mutagenic mauler X
Here's the thing: there's nothing you can do with those extra arms when it comes to fighting that you couldn't do already anyway (Multiweapon Fighting is out, Medusa's Wrath doesn't benefit from it, etc.), except for 'one free hand' shenanigans.
I need some suggestions for what to do in a fight with extra arms that does not involve attacking with them. Like maybe grappling two guys at once, using Snapping Turtle Clutch? Or grappling with two hands and using a dan bong as well?
What are some other good ideas?
here's a q
the 'SLA ruling' allows for interesting ways of qualifying for, say, mystic theurge earlier than normal (so-called 'early entry').
people play with this for two years.
now it's gone.
or, to put it another way, why not sooner?
The Songbird of Doom: A Guide to a most unlikely tank and Mechanism of Mass Destruction (Warning: GMs will hate you)
first, love the username
second, I love this build. very nice.
third, I can see how you get 3 natural attacks (songbird starts with one, and you aspect of the beast for the other two (although I think that feat goes online at level 8, which is your first chance to take a slayer talent)) oh, I see, you don't flurry or anything, you just treat all those as secondary, and use iterative punches for your other three. got it.
fourth, so, does an Iroran paladin have to worship Irori? the ring of seven lovely colors doesn't look like it requires Shelyn worship, but those two are compatible, to a point
(So, you devoted yourself to physical perfection in part by polymorphing into a little birdy?)
Is there a way of getting a songbird familiar glued to this build? Because nothing helps a polymorph build like confusing bad guys as to which bird will kill you...
Gender? Really? Like, I have this sword here, and it can only be used by men? What kind of crazy sword is that? Is it like a woman bane sword?
(Not that the elixir of transition doesn't exist in Pathfinder, it's in the ACG, but anyway)
Screw it, let's just have a magic portcullis that only opens for dudes and call it the gamer gate.
I statted up a character I called Pirate Detective Mantis Punch, which sounds silly, but the build is trying to maximize output on the feat Merciless Butchery.
a) you get +5d6 sneak attack as fast as possible
Does it win the DPR Olympics? nope. Does it command vast arcane energies? nope. Is it both a pirate and a detective? yup.
honestly, why not just pass them around, you know, tell your summons this
'try to help out that guy on his turn'.
and then just have the other party members control some summons
share the fun, yeah?
here's a common setup
Okay, I have to choose dog or wolf as my mount, and since dog is a 4th level option, I choose wolf
The average halfling male weighs 35 lbs. Add to that a suit of 1st-level armor, let's say scale mail, adds another 15 lbs.
So, here we have an armored halfling mounted on a wolf. He's got 25 lbs to spare for things like weapons, a backpack, etc. right?
riding saddle: 25 lbs
So there's 75 lbs. Boom. Any weapons at all, and the mount is encumbered. And yeah, there's wiggle room here, it's true
a) play a female halfling, they're lighter
Still, two questions
1. To ride a wolf, do you need a regular riding saddle, or an exotic riding saddle?
FAQ clicks appreciated, if you like.
hmm, I track encumbrance, sure.
then I tried to put together a crack team of halfling wolf-riders, and guess what? exotic saddles don't reduce in weight when they go down in size. So all my poor woolvsies are encumbered :(
I guess encumbrance is okay when it makes sense for the story, but when there's a whole cavalier order set aside for just this thing and you start out encumbered? meh.
counts as for what? in UE, the weapon part of a klar is listed as a one-handed slashing weapon.
So, pull the blade part off the skull? Go nuts with a blackblade and Slashing Grace. Stick it back on the skull? You're toast.
Do I have that right?
Oh, here's more fun
Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Klar:The traditional form of this tribal weapon is a short metal blade bound to the skull of a large horned lizard, but a skilled smith can craft one entirely out of metal. A traditional klar counts as a light wooden shield with armor spikes; a metal klar counts as a light steel shield with armor spikes.
Please tell me what armor spikes are doing on a shield?
1. A klar is a weapon that is also a shield.
Hmmm, you could even TWF with a single klar, without even needing to bother with Thunder and Fang. How neat is that?
A pity you can't stack bladecound with skirnir. Ah well, you can't have everything...I say mix that Conan chocolate and Elric peanut butter and go to town! I dub thee: Conric!
I'd summon one that was a puppet to my own disassociative identity disorder (ie 'I' am the eidolon, and that footstool over there casts healing spells once in a while). I have nooo idea if my eidolon would be cool doing that (especially if my alignment includes 'Chaotic').
okay, here's version 3: now with thug!
race: focused study human
1 snakebite striker brawler
the difference here is human instead of half-elf for the extra skill points (you could take Multitalented Mastery and spend your FCB on skill points, but then you're down a feat). This nets you an extra skill you can max: Intimidate. So now you can Bluff to feint and Intimidate to demoralize.
feats 1 - 12 (I'll mark non-bonus feats with a *)
So now here's what you do
and so on
a fighting fan
any further suggestions?
adamantine is less expensive than mithral by weight. If you used them as currency, it'd be 6 gp to the 1 'adamantine piece', and 10 gp to the 1 'mithral piece'.
Which leads to the question: why do mithral and platinum have the same value by weight, if mithral is way more useful?
uh...this build doesn't use slayer levels to get any sneak attack. It just needs studied target to qualify for Merciless Butchery. Also there's some nice armor and weapon proficiencies in that one level as well.
Shane, is your villain going to run a decentralized pesh smuggling network by any chance? I wonder if there's an escrow spell kicking around somewhere.
hmm, I was trying to stay within the bounds of PFS (so no vivi, no assassin), but what the heck, this build might be useful as a villain at some point. (hmm, I also have reservations about using a character that tries to be awesome at CdG as a villain against PCs)
yes. this build is all over the place. it relies on lots of multiclassing in order to get sneak attack dice as quickly as possible. Then it uses a bag more of multiclassing in order to make up for lost feats.
my current build would have 5 stunning fist attempts/day by level 9, 6 with a monk's robe. (3 monk levels (brawlers count) = 3, 6 non-monk levels = 1, Mantis Style = 1). Can I get that to go any higher?
1 snakebite striker brawler
ooh, uh, it looks like the vivisectionist alchemist doesn't really add sneak attack, it sort of stacks with rogue levels for sneak attack. So a rogue 1/vivisectionist 1 has only +1d6 sneak, not +2d6. Let's try again
1 snakebite striker brawler
at this point I have +5d6 sneak at level 7, enough to take Dastardly Finish, but I've only got 1 monk level. The rest of the build as-is is nothing but monk.
The assassin prestige class is something I hadn't considered. It certainly fits with the theme of the build, that's for sure.
Advanced Class Guide wrote:
so, if you were a single-classed slayer, you could qualify for this hideousness at, what, 17th level?
How about 9th? This build goes to 12th level, after which your GM will only let you fight oozes or robots, sorry...also, I am assuming that the bonus feat abilities you get from monk and brawler 'stack' (that is, 'bonus combat feat' is not the same as 'bonus feat'). If they don't, then knock off Dodge and Deflect Arrows.
race: half-elf (or wary half-elf, why not?)
1 snakebite striker brawler
this leaves you with +8 BaB, +8 Fort, +13 Ref, and +6 Will. This ain't terrible as a '3/4 BaB' class straight, it's -1 from that. Unfortunately, there's 4 levels in there where your BaB stays at +4. No one said pirate detective mantis punching bad guys was easy! Anyway, all the nutty multiclassing gets you +5d6 sneak attack by level 7.
feats 1 - 12 (I'll mark non-bonus feats with a *)
basic thing to do. Say a bad guy is standing next to you.
1 move action, make them your studied target
Or over two rounds, study the first round, and feint the second.
How's that? Any room for improvement?
Mark Seifter wrote:
Thanks for the input. I guess the decoy ring used the bracers of falcon's aim as a...decoy!
Every time something poorly written sneaks into a Paizo product, a gelatinous cube falls prone.
I think you can buy masterwork torches. They'd be, you know, masterwork. +2 to Profession (lamplighter) checks or similar. They'd still burn if you lit one on fire, though. It's a consumable melee weapon.
So, sure, I think you can buy a masterwork torch. And if it's a weapon, then you can enchant it (I remember there was some debate about this point: enchanting improvised weapons). But once you light it on fire, you've got an hour to enjoy it, I think. Kinda rough when it comes to magic items.
You know, a way around that would be to play an Asmodean magus, and enchant your torch with arcane pool points. That's halfway decent.
Perhaps you could convince a GM to let you put a burning coal into a battle aspergillum, and then you could barbecue bad guys with it...
my experiences so far. I am playing in PFS with a half-orc rogue built around the Surprise Follow-Through feat. I am multiclassing slayer for 2 levels, then it's straight rogue from then out. So far I have conquered levels 1 and 2.
1. Having lots of skill points is great. At level 1 I was missing some skills (Swim in particular), and then I was able to budget for 1 point at level 2. I can climb and swim and jump and pick locks and sneak around and be perceptive and cut down trees and eat my lunch and pick wild flowers and and and. Maybe higher levels will change this, but maybe not
2. I have really enjoyed the tactics of being a rogue. My job (so far) has been the guy to end the fight. Sure, having a munchkin-level heavens oracle around is great for messing up bad guys (or even a wizard with stumble gap), but they all have Str 7, and probably couldn't drown a kitten if they tried. Will this change at higher level? I dunno. You can't color spray everything.
3. It is not my job to save my bacon, or to be impervious to everything. I'm well-prepared, but I'm not invulnerable. Also, bards are great, but they're not great if I'm not around.
4. Why did I multiclass slayer? I didn't do it for the slower sneak progression: I did it for the armor proficiency, the weapon proficiency and the class skills. I honestly thought about taking the rogue talent survivalist until the slayer came along. Now I can rock a mithral breastplate and have decent ranks in Survival and Heal, and still get a nice perk from studied target. I could wield a greatsword if I felt like it, or not be an idiot with a kerambit or a tube arrow shooter. That's not nothing. If I had to pick something I didn't like about the rogue, it was missing useful stuff like this that other classes get for free.
5. I am prepared to do lots of different things to get sneak attack. I can flank (and have the militia trait), I'm going to be good when charging or moving (at level 6 and 10, but still), I've got Surprise Follow-Through coming online at level 4, etc. And you know, that's a lot of thought and optimizing for what I want to do. But it's also the way I want to play. If I played a beefy barbarian guy, what's the GM going to do? That barb is always going to be smacking face, so you put up some other big number to get in the barb's way. A rogue in that same slot makes the game about tactics and positioning, which is fun! It's why you don't roll dice in chess.
Let's say you're like The Ventriloquist (the Batman villain). You're a summoner, you're hiding behind or holding an eidolon, and here's what you've got
Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
Link (Ex): A summoner and his eidolon share a mental link allows for communication across any distance (as long as they are on the same plane). This communication is a free action, allowing the summoner to give orders to his eidolon at any time.
Okay, instant communication/orders across the dimension. Good for when you cast unfetter, I guess.
Can you tell your eidolon, as a free action, 'Say threat X to this guy, and menace him by shaking your fist thusly and stamping your foot in such-and-such manner'? Who rolls the Intimidate check, the summoner, or the eidolon?
Or, to put it another way
Let's sat that the link ability is one step up from a wizard's familiar's empathic link, such that emotion and language can be perfectly transmitted. Can an eidolon perfectly mimic that communication to others?
cool. thanks for the item list. none of those are really good for an eidolon with Bodyguard, other than possibly wasting a ton of money on a pricey benevolent bracers of armor. Still, thanks for the list.
...try searching the word 'helpful' on this forum...
Helpful either gives you a +3 on aid another results (not checks), or +4 (if you're a halfling or your eidolon was adopted by one).
Traits are worth 1/2 a feat.
Is there a feat version of Helpful?
hmm, I ran this a while ago. As written, kind of lame. I spiced it up by (no kidding) writing a 'forest tile random generator' in Java and building the terrain 'on the fly'. Forests as written give enemies a lot of chances to get cover or concealment.
I think a chase would be fun, certainly (mixing chase with combat), or running it like 'beat the boar across some obstacles three times and drive it into a spike pit'. Sounds like you've got some good ideas already.
sounds like you need a bard. also sounds like interesting races are open. hmm...how about an Ifrit bard using Fire Music?
fire elemental sorcerer 1/bard 7, take Fire Music and summon monster spells
a) your summons get to be the front line/flank buddies
So, I'm plotting out spell selection for a summoner that really relies on the eidolon as a physical melee combatant using natural weapons (shocker).
There are a bunch of spells that mimic the effect of magic items, especially the big 6.
Pro using magic items
Pro using spells
let's lay the apples and oranges on the table
amulet of mighty fists - magic fang or greater magic fang
1. Is it always better to use spells to mimic the big 6, and keep the magic items for yourself? Or the reverse?
I just wrote up a summoner myself. Not, like, some wacky blood summoner of doom and fluffy bunnies. Just a summoner. And no weird spell choices or anything, really. Kinda neat, you know, haste as a 2nd-level spell, a big green eidolon...fun!
hmm, maybe it depends on the breath weapon?
I could see a cold breath working, sure...but not an acid breath. Like maybe fire could be okay, but not, say, some sort of poison gas or little shards of crystals or whatever.
So, I'd say, 'it depends'
shows what I know. I figure you'd want to see what you're doing when setting up a flaming barrier of death. great!
oh, one more fridged summoner question
5. If you're a small summoner hanging out in a backpack or a familiar satchel or what-have-you, are you considered adjacent to your eidolon? And just like 'you're mounted, so you're in all 4 squares', are you also in all 4 squares if you're in a backpack?
teamwork feats, eidolon-specific feats, etc.
Hi Mark, here's another pile of happy little rules questions.
You may wonder why I'm asking you these (in addition to posting in the real rules forum): it's because my 'occasionally every other Thursday' times to actually play Pathfinder are with your old PFS crew in Boston. I figure asking you first will probably be better than trying to hash it out at a table where the slot is 3.5 hours anyway. I don't really know if your take is given any weight there, but it doesn't hurt to assume that.
Dumb questions about the decoy ring
1. Do you get invisibility as the spell, or regular old invisibility? i.e, does it pop when you attack or not?
Dumb questions about small summoners
1. Can a large eidolon carry a small summoner in a scaled-up backpack? Is this considered squeezing? Aside from squeezing penalties or not, is the summoner restricted from any action? (A backpack that's sized for a Large character might be 2'7" x 2'6" x 2'6", which is big enough to hold a halfling, but small enough that the halfling's head pokes out).
a) you're stuffed in a big familiar satchel, and can't see out of it.
Does that work?
Diego Rossi wrote:
I'm on the fence on this one actually. A reasonable dude would say, 'Some of these are illusionary duplicates'. I think just thinking that is enough interaction to warrant a save, and I don't think you save against them one at a time, you save against all or none.
If I could tell my illusionary duplicates anything, it would be this: move in the same square. Either they would be able to react to getting hit by having one of them pop and the rest make ouchie noises, or if they blur a little it ends up just looking like mirror image (which can't be disbelieved).
The biggest tell the illusions are fake is this guy.
'Hey, I just saw this rogue with a greataxe run off in four different directions, where did this invisible rogue with a greataxe come from?'
Let's say I'm a small halfling being carried around in a backpack by my large eidolon. And, say, I'd rather have the eidolon be my 'face' instead of me. Is there any way other than the spell ventriloquism (and, I suppose, the synthesist archetype) to make it seem as if the eidolon is talking instead of me?
As for your questions, yes, 4 gold, and they need to squeeze to fit in (I would also give them total cover any turn they spend inside the bag, partial on any turn they stick their head up)
Hmm, how about using a sized-up familiar satchel? A regular one fits a Tiny creature. Would one subjected to enlarge person be able to fit a Small creature? (with no squeezing even?)
the smallest possible halfling weighs 27 lbs, and is 2'8" tall. IRL, you can get personal 'baby backpacks' that let you carry teeny little people like this. Anyway...
A Pathfinder backpack can hold 2 cubic feet of material. That's 2' x 1' x 1'. That's probably not enough space. So, let's scale it up. Since a creature's height doubles and weight goes up by a factor of 8 when they go up a size category, let's say that works for the backpack being carried by someone enchanted by enlarge person.
So, an enlarged backpack can carry 16 cubic feet of material, or 4' x 2' x 2'. A halfling definitely fits in this space.
1. Can a bipedal eidolon carry and wear a properly sized non-magical backpack?
Hmm, if it is squeezing, you could make a Large-sized backpack with a volume of 2'7" x 2'6" x 2'6" (this is just about half a square's worth of volume) and still get 16 cubic feet. That leaves our halfling with just about enough space to poke her head out of the bag and cast a spell or two.
Yup! You get three rounds if you get knocked unconscious, but only two if you withdraw first. However,
You could use the feat Cut Your Losses to grab something during your withdraw round.
Imagine two rounds of +sneak attack damage, the opponent is denied Dex, and you get an additional +2 to attack. Now imagine this with a pair of sniper goggles.
The other thing is this: you're not actually unseen. Put on a ring of invisibility, and no one knows you're there, at least for 3 minutes. Use a decoy ring, and there's four illusion copies of yourself running around, acting like idiots. Seriously, why four copies? That's like a huge tipoff that they're fake.
'Hisss, I thought I turned this poor shlub to stone, but now there's 4 of him running off in different directions....ahh...I think I'll just swing my hammer around where I thought I stoned him.'
Isn't the ring of invisibility grossly overpriced already anyway?
'Harry, why do you keep shouting 'Obfuscato!' every three minutes? Argus Flich'll hear you for sure!'
I'll take my chances.
this is what I get for searching 'decoy ring' in just the rules questions forum. meh. I'm FAQing this anyway. I'm with you in any case: this ring isn't a unitasker, in the same way that 'expeditious retreat' is just a euphemism. I'll throw in the section on invisibility the condition, which this ring appears to grant you
and again as a condition
Core Rulebook wrote:
Invisible: Invisible creatures are visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its opponents' Dexterity bonuses to AC (if any). See Invisibility, under Special Abilities.
Nowhere in there does it say you lose it if you use it. Your victim does pinpoint you if you're in melee, though.
The ring doesn't say what kind of invisibility you get, and the spell the ring is based on is mislead. For reference, here's the
which explicitly references the spell invisibility, including its limitations.
So, the question: does a decoy ring give you invisibility per mislead (which in turn references greater invisibility), or regular old 'invisibility, as the spell'?
Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Decoy Ring: This ring is a thick loop of mirrorlike metal. Whenever the wearer of this ring takes the withdraw action or becomes helpless (including falling unconscious), it instantly makes her invisible for 3 rounds and creates four illusory duplicates that either run off in opposite directions or perform other plausible actions that could draw enemy attention away from her. The duplicates last for 3 rounds before disappearing, but they instantly pop out of existence if struck by an attack (AC 10) and can be disbelieved (Will DC 19). Allies of the wearer always know her true location and can freely provide aid or assistance to her.
a) the ring's power is based on mislead, which in turn acts like greater invisibility. This is the only source of consumable-free greater invisibility I've ever seen.b) the ring is great for a melee rogue. If you can't position yourself in the perfect spot during your 'withdraw' round, and kill your target in the next 2, then you're doing it wrong.
c) illusionary duplicates! who cares! enemy-only invisibility! also ridiculous! a mislead effect contingent on dropping into negatives (ie, right when you need it)! don't provoke when withdrawing from a creature with reach! craziness!
d) the ring costs 12K gp. That's 8K cheaper than a ring of invisibility!
Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Sniper Goggles: The leather strap attached to these bulbous lenses allows their wearer to fit them to his head. The wearer of these goggles can make ranged sneak attacks from any distance instead of the normal 30 feet. When making ranged sneak attacks within 30 feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak attack damage die.
...man, if only I had a consumable-free, repeatable source of greater invisibility...oh wait! the goggles cost 20K, and now they're worth it! also: call yourself GOGGALOR
Best of all, no feats! You want to play some total fruitcake build, or The Conqueror Ooze, or whatever, go for it! But some feats can make this even better
Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
Parting Shot: Once per encounter, when using the withdraw action, you can make a single ranged attack at any point during your movement.
Use with a dart in the ol' spring-loaded wrist sheath. Too bad you need 4 feats before this one. Also, once per encounter? wha?
Pathfinder Society Primer wrote:
oh, you know, this is cute
Favored enemy (core races)
I could see that as a good compromise. Although, take favored enemy core races and find out the campaign involves infiltrating the Kitty Cat Empire or something...
how about the top halfling being a summoner, and the bottom half is a Small Eidolon?
eh, this calls for a little rules bending here, because a small eidolon can only be ridden by a tiny rider, and you can't apply the mount evolution to a bipedal eidolon. so what? take Undersized Mount and call it a day.
say you're suffering paralysis. okay, how can you get out of it?
you can take 'purely mental' actions, such as a spell with no components. So like a Stilled, Silent remove paralysis spell would work.
What won't work: lay on hands with the paralysis mercy (you need to touch with your hands)
So other than a heavily metamagicked up spell, or possibly a contingency, are there any other ways to pull this off?
In other words, how to unlock a 'lock in' effect?
hmm, bumping this. Is cutting someone with a sword considered 'deformation'? What if you give your opponent a beautiful scar? Failing that, how about bruising? Can you bruise someone (using nonlethal damage) and avoid deforming them?
Was the aim just to have an unarmored greatsword wielding paladin, or did you have something more specific in mind? If you wanted to optimize lay on hands, I'd consider a tiefling (for the favored class bonus) with the fey foundling feat. (If I could do this without taking the fiendish heritage feat, I'd make it a demon-spawn one.)
I was aiming for an unarmored paladin with a greatsword.
a) I looked at mystery cultist to get the 2nd boon faster, but that class gives up so much against the paladin that I decided it wasn't worth it. Until level 16, I'd just wear some full plate.
Yeah, if I was really Solanging it up, I'd probably grab a level of oracle (lunar maybe?), and go Temple Guardian with the Nobility domain.
The trick with the low CON is the possibility of getting one-shotted by a crit, especially if you are taking other hits before that. At level 12 this build will have about 83 HP. Getting CON to 16 and putting FCB into hp brings it up to 119. A big jump. Since you are not planning to use a shield you will get hit fairly often, and you can only lay on hands during your action.
Ultimate Magic wrote:
Prerequisites: Cha 19, Greater Mercy, lay on hands, mercy class feature.
So, it looks like I don't need to be level 11, just some level I can reasonably expect to have 10 lay on hands
18 cha: 4 LoH
that's 10 by level 6, just in time for the feat at level 7. And without a headband even.
I liked the energy resistance because it's something different, but hit points for this character are really appealing. I think skating a 12 Con for a melee character could work with all the LoH shots.