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Pathfinder Society Member. 790 posts (791 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters.


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Hey Mark, whenever you get the chance.

I understand that there's been a lot of water under the bridge re: covert spellcasting, the idea that a caster could cast a spell and not have others notice, even if the spell had otherwise no obvious effect (charm person and detect thoughts being two contenders here).

a) what's your take?
b) I can't ask the next obvious question (about Ultimate Intrigue), so let me try this one: does the availability of covert spellcasting affect the 'general understanding' of law-and-order in a typical Golarion city?

That is, I'm pretty sure there isn't a law against casting spells in public in, say, Absalom, but presumably casting any spell in front of a shopkeeper would be grounds for calling the guard (in case the spell was charm person). Is my understanding wrong?


Imbicatus wrote:

Other than the fact that there is no way anyone would give away a sun orchid even under the effects of charm person, you got most of the ways to conceal casting. Vigilante warlock play test could do it.

Also note that even having a silent,still spell via meta magic or psychic components can still be easily detected by an observer.

I was not alleging differently. Apparently you have to dull the senses of the observer, rather than obfuscate the behaviors of the actor.

It strikes me as odd that the signature ability of the mesmerist (that hairy eyeball) is genuinely undetectable, but to get useful covert non-combat benefit out of it, you need the services of a talented accordionist instead.


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I know this has been done to death, but I'm just trying to make sure about the limits of this whole 'concealed magic' thing. Again.

Let's say someone's opened up a shop that sells sun orchid popsicles, and they go for a million gp each. And let's assume that adventurers are going to try to crack that nut with all sorts of whammy powers, and further let's assume that the shopkeeper isn't some sort of vampire plant robot that can shrug off mind-affecting effects, but is trained in Spellcraft. The shop is well-lit.

(Note to self: stat up a ghoran vampire who's got a chip on his shoulder against vegetarians)

An enchanter wizard walks in, and casts a Still, Silent charm person. The shopkeeper notices that magic is being used and instantly triggers the laser chainsaws. Right?

A mesmerist walks in, and begins a whammy with hypnotic eye. The shopkeeper doesn't notice, because, no save, the mesmerist can keep the shopkeeper from noticing her use of that power. She then casts charm person, which because of the psychic magic rules doesn't have any verbal or somatic components to begin with. The shopkeeper finally notices that, and pushes the laser chainsaw button. Right?

A patched-up mesmerist walks in, activates her hypnotic eye, and proceeds to try the implant suggestion part of the new occult skill unlock for Diplomacy. She pulls off the ungodly DC in part because of her Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Persuasive, and Voice of the Sibyl feats. Here you go, have a popsicle! Right?

A demon-blooded tiefling abyssal sorcerer walks by, having taken the following feats: Fiend Sight, Fiend Sight, and Silent Spell. She proceeds to cast deeper darkness and silence on herself outside the shop, then she walks in and casts a Silent charm person. Here's a popsicle for you, wherever you are. Right?

A rakshasa-blooded tiefling rakshasa sorcerer walks in and casts charm person straight off, but quickly passes it off to the shopkeeper as detect fraudulent sun orchids or something. You can't be too careful these days, with all these mountebank adventurers running around. How about a popsicle, then. Right?

A bard with the Spellsong feat shows up. During conversation about the weather and the sun orchid crop, he whips out his bongo drums, and proceeds to attract the attention of Shelyn with a divine Perform (percussion) check. The shopkeeper does not notice that a charm person was also being cast. And here's my last popsicle for you. Right?

a) are there any other ways people can think of to cast a spell covertly in any way?
b) do all of these examples function (or not function) as I have described?


geekgumbo wrote:
As those abilities seem to be purely physical, would a shapeshifter (kitsune with appropriate feat), owner of hat o disguise, etc, get those bonuses essentially free if they take a form with those traits?

I doubt it. If the spell doesn't grant it, you don't get it. Which is weird, because a kitsune rocking Realistic Likeness can get a +10 to Disguise himself as a person with the Overwhelming Beauty trait, but they don't get Overwhelming Beauty themselves.


Torbyne wrote:
As a side note, good luck surviving the "gentle" affections of a 20 ton death-bot.

Eh, beats the lasers and chainsaws side of things. Nothing an impossible sorcerer can't handle.

So, if a creature fails its save against unnatural lust, then it should also be affected by your trait or obedience or what have you. Right?


Torbyne wrote:
Q3: What about it? the spell clearly states how it functions. I am not sure what you are trying to find out here..

Let's say a Charming but impossible sorcerer casts unnatural lust on a robot, with the object of affection being the sorcerer. Does the sorcerer gain the bonus from Charming?


[GOOFY 'EXISTENCE OF SEX' WARNING À LA THIS AMERICAN LIFE]

Ultimate Campaign wrote:
Charming: Blessed with good looks, you’ve come to depend on the fact that others find you attractive. You gain a +1 trait bonus when you use Bluff or Diplomacy on a character that is (or could be) sexually attracted to you, and a +1 trait bonus to the save DC of any language-dependent spell you cast on such characters or creatures.
Bastards of Golarion wrote:
Overwhelming Beauty: Your wiles are particularly potent against people who share a race with you, as your beauty is often held up as a symbol of perfection. The DC of your mind-affecting effects increases by 1 against creatures that have at least one of the same subtypes as you.

There's also the obedience boons for both Calistria and Arshea, which I don't need to get in to.

Oh! Also the seducer's eyes spell, and the super-overpriced headband of seduction.

Question 1: If you have both traits, would the DC boosters stack if applicable?

So, let's say you have a grab-bag of these effects, and you're also a competent shapeshifter (alter self, disguise self, both, you're a doppelgänger, etc.) So you don't share a subtype with a target, or your natural form isn't one that's naturally attractive to your target.

Question 2: If you're in an, let's say 'applicable' shape, would you then get these sorts of bonuses?
Question 3: What about if you successfully pull off an unnatural lust spell?
Question 4: Eh, more of a stupid advice question. Any way anyone can think of to pull off seducer's eyes on a recalcitrant wand (via Use Magic Device)?


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Oh hi, Cave Druid calling: when do we get anything at all from turning into an ooze other than its natural attack?


hmmm

race: half-elf
class: unchained monk 9/internal alchemist 3
traits: Mutant Eye (legal in PFS!), Mordant Heritage
20 point stats
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 8

going for a four-armed, three-eyed kusarigama-wielder with Snake Style

or something

feats
monk1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes, Skill Focus (Sense Motive), ???
alch1: --
alch2: Vestigial Arm, Extra Discovery (Vestigial Arm)
monk2: Improved Grapple
monk3: Snake Style
alch3: --
monk4: Snake Sidewind, some ki power
monk5: some style strike
monk6: Snake Fang, Improved Trip
monk7: --
monk8: Improved Critical (kusarigama), another ki power
monk9: another style strike

kind of a rough sketch, and kind of magic-item-heavy (I'd love it if there was a alchemist-discovery-using magus archetype), but it's got a little promise.

any help with the concept would be appreciated. no, I haven't read through Occult Adventures yet.


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two levels of alchemist dip, that and a feat net you two vestigial arms. you probably only need one, but two looks cooler

the rules say the arms don't give you any more attacks or actions than you already had. so fine. you can TWF with light crossbows no problem, it's just that firing one-handed nets you a -4 to the attack. the extra arms negate the -4 penalty, and help with reloading.

you also get +Dex mutagen, which might be nice, and a few cool extracts, which is also nice. another feat buys you 'explosive missile', something you can use to load alchemist bombs onto crossbow bolts (though it's a standard action, not awesome)


anyone thinks it's weird that the halfling goes up to the shoulder of the others? like, is that a permanently enlarged halfling?


::pours one out for Web Fiction::


blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, instead of choking dust, or sneezing powder, you're just going to throw fistfulls of cocaine at people?

let's say a dragon is about to breathe fire on you. Before it exhales, it has to inhale first. That's when you nail it with your marching powder (or 'lizard-nip') bomb. Bam! flame goes just everywhere.

Or how about from the dragon's perspective? What do you think all those 'gas' breath weapons really are?

The real question is, how come drug bombs aren't an option in Champions of Corruption?


how about ghoran blood? They are racially delicious...


How about the counterfeit mage archetype? Or there's always the underground chemist for your 'sciency rogue' needs.


huh. interesting. the fabricate spell is legal, but you cannot use a Craft check to make nice things with it (unless you're a poisoner rogue or an alchemist, in which you can, but you can't sell the output poisons).

good to know. May I say it seems weird that crafter's fortune helps with Day Job checks, and fabricate doesn't?


So Alf and Beth are in the Pathfinder Society, and both of them are gnome dressmakers.

Alf is a 9th-level gnome rogue. He's got 16 Int, max ranks in Craft (clothing), has obsession: Craft (clothing), and has taken Skill Focus (Craft (clothing)). He's got a +20 to his check, so after a hard day at the dungeon, he comes home, takes 10 on a Day Job check, and earns 75gp.

Beth is a 9th-level gnome transmuter. She's also got a 16 Int, max ranks in Craft (clothing), has obsession: Craft (clothing), and has taken Skill Focus (Craft (clothing)). She also has a +20 to her check, but she's also got fabricate twice per day. She could, with one spell, turn 90 cubic feet of linen into courtier's outfits.

One square yard of linen costs 4gp. Presumably that means you need approximately 2.5 square yards of linen to make a courtier's outfit (4*2.5 = 30 / 3). The internet tells me that's not enough for a Medium-sized creature, but it might do for a Small one. 90 cubic feet equals 30 cubic yards. I don't know how many square yards of linen you'd need to make a cubic yard, but let's pretend that linen is one inch thick. So 30 cubic yards of linen = 1080 square yards of linen.

1080 square yards of linen costs 4320 gp (this is enough to make courtier's outfits for 432 gnomes). Casting fabricate once (and selling 432 outfits) grosses you 12960gp, or 8640gp net.

Can a skilled wizard use the spell fabricate while making her Day Job check?

(also, uh, is my math wrong?)


Pathfinder Unchained wrote:
Eidolons and Alignment: Generally, the summoner controls the actions of his eidolon, even during combat, either through verbal commands or through the link ability, but this does not mean that the eidolon is a puppet that follows every command without question. Eidolons have been known to refuse actions that are against their ethoses or alignments (subject to the GM’s discretion) and are quick to chide the summoner about such requests. In addition, should the action of the summoner cause a shift in alignment such that the summoner’s alignment is more than one step away from the eidolon’s, the eidolon refuses the call of the summoner (although the summoner can still use his summon monster class feature). If the summoner manages to restore his alignment, the eidolon returns to his service.

We'll see about that!

You can't change your own alignment: if you do, your eidolon leaves.
If you put a helm of opposite alignment on yourself and you purposefully fail the saving throw: same thing, sayonara eidolon.
If someone else ties you up and sticks you with the whammy hat, and you fail the save honestly: Does your eidolon stick around?
If, under any circumstances, your eidolon ends up wearing the whammy hat: Does your eidolon stick around?
If you hand your eidolon an intelligent magic item with an Ego score that then dominates your eidolon: Does your eidolon stick around?
planar binding: At 16th level (ugh, and only at 16th level), a summoner could planar binding an unhappy eidolon. Would that work?

a) would any of these methods work to cajole or force an eidolon more than one alignment step away from you to remain in your service? Or, could these methods be used and then you can go about seeking redemption yourself?
b) does anyone have some better ideas about getting around the eidolon alignment restriction?


Feral Combat Training does the same thing for a natural weapon.


I think a time dragon (or any other dragon for that matter) would be very leery of reincarnate, at least unless they had a way to fudge the roll to go back to being a great wyrm time dragon, rather than an elf or something.

now I'm imagining what would happen if a party of PCs uncovered a fossilized time dragon. Inside its mouth is an adamantine plate with Common writing on it describing the situation. They resurrect it, and then get pulled along on some crazy adventure in the future.


DM_Blake wrote:

a) That's entirely up to the GM; there are no rules to cover it that I know of. I'm inclined to say no - obviously this Time Travel thing is meant to be rare and special. Great Wyrms are rich enough to afford hundreds of resurrections and/or contingency spells, so if that would reset the counter they could just suicide to get three more time trips which would trivialize this rare and special ability.

b) Again up to the GM. None of the things on the Wish spell's list of what it can do cover recharging such a rare and special ability that is limited to the lifespan of the (nearly immortal) dragon, so it falls under the bottom part of the spell that says "You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment, at the GM's discretion.)"

However, since the GM (dragon) is making the wish and the GM is arbitrating the wish, it's like roleplaying with yourself. So just decide if it works (or for bonus points, decide that it partially works with "perverted intent" that makes Time Travel awkward or unpredictable - could be an interesting adventure hook if the dragon needs to send the PCs on a quest to "fix" its broken ability).

I dunno, I think it's a pretty epic quest if you have to go looking for a sacred reliquary containing a chopped-off time dragon claw to true resurrect in order to save the world somehow.

Yeah, I don't know if a PC could ever get their hands on great wyrm time dragon powers by themselves, so it is kind of 'rules-lawyering with yourself', but so what? The Rules forum doesn't always have to be about how to polymorph into Bokrug or what have you.


My Self wrote:
ohako wrote:
b) can a time dragon recharge the hot tub with a wish?
Hot tub?

sorry, referencing the movie 'Hot Tub Time Machine'


This is about the time dragon

Bestiary 4 wrote:
Time Travel (Su): Up to three times in its life, a great wyrm time dragon can travel to any point in time, taking with it a number of willing creatures equal to its Charisma modifier.

a) if a time dragon uses all of its time travel uses, dies, and comes back to life by any means (raise dead, resurrection, clone, etc.), does it gets its uses back?

b) can a time dragon recharge the hot tub with a wish?


Can the time dragon use wish to recharge one of its time travel shots? How about clone or, heck, raise dead?

I say build a campaign around an evil wizard that manages to actually summon the Oliphaunt of Jandeley for some reason, and the time dragon has to help the heroes try again and again to stop the wizard.

How's that?


I'm not a fan of mint myself. Tom's of Maine makes a nice cinnamon 'n' clove toothpaste that's my gristle of choice.

this is, what, #2 for Ms. Frasier? so we've got a 1 and a 6.

So, let's do this

In Hell's Bright Shadow
The Sixfold Trial
I dunno, uh...Realm of the Fellnight Queen
The Harrowing
Wardens of the Reborn Forge
Divinity Drive

how's that? that's an AP I'd play.


So, fine, the moon has a gigantic racial penalty to Stealth. okay folks, in Pathfinder

a) how much damage can you do to yourself if you stare at the sun?
b) can an aerial rogue use the sun as a source of concealment against a grounded target on a sunny day?

the answer I got to this one, not surprisingly, was that the sun had an astronomical (ha ha) penalty to perceive it, so no dice.

which is it? can you see the sun and the moon or can't you?


uh, did the errata change anything about the aasimar's weird 'I can push undead around with light by using my Strength score' (Channel Force), or the weird 'I qualify for a feat at a level I can't take it' thing (Angelic Wings)?


Grab a fighting fan? Heck, grab two.


Back in the dear dead days someone grouched at me because my pseudonym was hard to pronounce. they pronounced it as 'ohako', so I've stuck with that ever since.

As for my lack of avatar picture, well, the image I use for everything else is the Japanese flag crossed with the Danish flag (so, a meatball with an off-center cross in it). It looks a lot like the Smash Brothers logo. That's my personal mon, so i'm not interested in using any other. Wouldn't feel like 'me'.


aw, I hate to break it to you, but the writing is on the wall, yeah?

and don't claim they don't know about this particular shenanigan, there's a search feature tied to the Advice forum, for Nethys's sake!

hey! [i]strong jaw[i] is in the APG, let's talk about how there's no upper damage limit on what it can do.

The question is not: are there, let's call them 'ripe targets', in other books?

The question really is this: knowing what we know about how and when Paizo uses the errata-hammer, can they mess with the different parts of the Conqueror Ooze at all anytime in the next, let's say two years?

Or to put it another way, anyone got anything good left over in the APG that's worth flaunting?


There's been a lot of...interesting things happening with errata lately, mostly having to do with, say, 'disoptimizations':

no more crazy Divine Protection, no more Slashing Grace/spell combat, no more magus/precise strike swashbuckler deed, no more useful Merciless Butchery, no more Constitution casting from half-orc witches, you get the picture.

However, one naughty little minx has escaped the banhammer thus far: prototype00's Conqueror Ooze. The ability (admittedly at 10th level) to punch as hard as a fireball, multiple times per round.

This build depends on the following things staying safe

the Cave Druid archetype keeping its wildshape intact, from the APG
the Carnivorous Crystal monster keeping its punch damage, from Bestiary 3
Feral Combat Training staying classy, from Ultimate Combat
the spell beast shape III not having a punch damage limit (it's got a 'size limit', which is safe when modeling real-life animals, not oozes), from the Core Rulebook (although other polymorph spells in later books would probably need to be altered as well)

Errata policy as we understand it: errata comes out when a hardcover gets reprinted. Right?

Now, each of these books (except the CR) has already been errata-ed once, so they're all on their second printings. In addition, the APG has the old summoner class in it, which might be difficult to reprint as-is. The Core Rulebook is probably an evergreen, but it's been printed 6 times, and the last time was two years ago.

I think the chances for a reprint/errata affecting the Conqueror Ooze are slight. But then again, in the current climate, that's like saying 'It's been raining so hard, it's got to lighten up sometime'.

What do you all think?


you know, I just thought of this

so, Perform (legerdemain), versatile performance would be (Bluff, Sleight of Hand). Yeah, why isn't that in the CR?

I was also thinking of Perform (puppetry), because then you get ventriloquism, bunraku puppets, Sesame St, etc, but then I figured that would go under Perform (act) (because Avenue Q went on Broadway)

so, I guess the question is this: Are there missing Perform subskills with unique Versatile Performance combinations?

Is doing card tricks Perform (comedy) or Perform (legerdemain)?

Is being a muppetteer Perform (acting) or Perform (puppetry)?


the Spin Kick style strike is great for a monk/rogue combination

a) spin kick, flat-footed, deal sneak attack, throw a Stunning in there for good measure
b) if the stun lands, the rest of your attacks are also targeting flat-footed AC, with an extra +2 on top.

how's that?


BadBird wrote:

Monk1/ Sorcerer 4/ Disciple may cost you 1 BAB, but you're also getting spells like Haste and Heroism and Greater Magic Weapon sooner and at full CL. It's arguably the more powerful way to go, particularly if you want to compliment your fists with the ability to throw a mean Scorching Ray.

Speaking of no-save spells, if you really want to make your silver ancestor proud, consider:

Crossblooded Sorcerer: Draconic(silver)/Elemental(cold).
Traits: Magical Knack and Wayang Spellhunter: Fiery Shuriken or Scorching Ray.
Feat: Rime Spell.

You can now turn any elemental spell into a cold spell; you cast spells at full CL and get a big damage boost on cold spells; you can apply Rime spell to any cold spell; you can apply Rime Spell to your chosen trait spell for free. There are no saves involved.

Scorching Ray can become Rime Ray and entangle targets, dropping their attack and defense for you.

Fiery Shuriken can become Rime Shuriken for entangling, and if you cross it with the Opening Volley feat and throw your shuriken with swift-actions as you fight, you can seriously buff some of your attacks while you break enemy defenses. Attacking a target that was just hit with a Rime Shuriken is a net +6 to your attack with Opening Volley and entangled.

Ooh, I really like fiery shuriken + Opening Volley. That is a great way to set up a Stunning Fist. I like it.

I think Rime Spell + fiery shuriken (or, say, obsidian flow) would be a great addition to the Dazing Spell + grease + an acid power component trick. I think that's more for your standard sorcerer though.

Nice ideas!


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
I am not tracking your thought process here.

It sounds like OP wants a 'caddy' for spoilery thing 1, or have a soap opera of inter-minion bickering at every table they sit at?

That's what I'm taking from it, but I could be mistaken?

Brilliant but pessimistic take on it, really. My thoughts were along the lines of Susan Sto Helit, Quoth the raven, and the Death of Rats.

I admit, PFS is a cooperative game in which no character should hog the spotlight (unless the other players let him), and character introductions should be brief (my all-time favorite, 'My character's armor is olive oil'). But think of the narrative possibilities of such a combination: say the spoilery thing is lawful (I have no idea if this is true), and your eidolon is chaotic. They could combine for the 'angel on one shoulder, devil on the other shoulder' schtick really badly.

So let's say that giving the spoilery thing to a familiar is a mistake. A raven couldn't wield it, and there's probably no way you'd want to send an Improved Familiar into melee (unless you were one of those familiar archetypes with high hit points).

So then I'll ask again: is there a 'good' choice of eidolon subtype to wield the spoilery thing, or at least a choice that offers the GM an interesting narrative hook (if they choose to take it)?

Kinda related: I'm trying to find where it says that you can only have one combat helper (familiar, AC, or eidolon) at a time. Any help there? Maybe a character whose eidolon is aided by a protector familiar would be interesting in the same way as the spoilery thing.


Oh yeah, so it does. I can't take Power Attack and Arcane Strike at 1st level. Hmm. Power Attack happens to be one of the draconic bonus feats, so I'll just slot that in there, and grab Toughness at 1st or something. Good catch.

Elemental Fist (in a 'limited form') can be taken by a character with Dragon Ferocity, yes?


So, I read that there's a certain scenario in which the PCs can get a boon that offers a chance to purchase

Spoiler:
an intelligent item

So, I'm thinking: if giving the GM a cool hook to 'share' the role-playing that your character gets to do, can we give the GM a crowd?

My question, a two-parter

a) Is there an unchained eidolon subtype that is particularly harmonious with the spoilery thing? Is there an unchained eidolon subtype that would be a hilarious counterpoint to the spoilery thing? Or perhaps a subtype that the spoilery thing can

Spoiler:
dominate?

b) Is there a great build that will allow a crow familiar (or an improved familiar) to use the spoilery thing in combat?


I'm really bad at coming up with character name taglines. Think like a sk8rboy with natural silver-plated elbow pads and knee pads


so, there's all kinds of dragon disciples, the most prominent of which (barbarian/sorcerer) became a class all by itself. Here's a different take on the prestige class. The idea here is

a) that you use your claws until you run out of charges, then switch to punches for the rest.
b) since you get mage armor, you might as well use it
c) that picture of the monk/dragon disciple from the 3.5 DMG

Just don't depend on spell DCs for much. That doesn't seem too hard

race: human
class: unchained monk 3/sorcerer 2 (silver draconic)/dragon disciple 7
stats (20 points): Str 16, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 13
traits: Arcane Temper, Martial Manuscript

I was hoping to use the eldritch scrapper archetype for the sorcerer, but the martial flexibility that you get doesn't get boosted by blood of dragons.

feats (bonus feats marked with *)
sorcerer 1: Arcane Strike, Power Attack, Eschew Materials*
unchained monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike*, Stunning Fist*, Dodge*
unchained monk 2: Deflect Arrows*, Dragon Style
unchained monk 3: ki pool!
sorcerer 2: Dragon Ferocity
dragon disciple 1: --
dragon disciple 2: Toughness*, Elemental Fist
dragon disciple 3: --
dragon disciple 4: Dragon Roar
dragon disciple 5: Improved Initiative*, eh...Great Fortitude*?
dragon disciple 6: Riving Strike
dragon disciple 7: dragon form!

Ending stats

Str 22, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 14
Base Atk: +9, right on the 3/4 BaB track.
Spells: 7th level spellcaster. You miss out on the spell fear (which you would otherwise earn). big whoop.

how's this? any suggestions?


welp, this build is toast. Merciless Butchery sucks now (ACG errata makes it a standard action, not a swift). I guess my job is done.

kinda makes me wonder if there's ever going to be errata for the cave druid. I guess they'd have to reprint the APG to do that, except there's a whole new summoner class in PU now. I think it's safe (heh heh).


So, thinking about taking levels in eldritch scrapper sorcerer leading in to dragon disciple.

Here's Eldritch Scrapper

Advanced Class Guide wrote:

Martial Flexibility (Ex): At 1st level, an eldritch scrapper gains the brawler's martial flexibility class feature, using her sorcerer level as her brawler level for the purposes of uses per day. The scrapper treats Arcane Strike and Combat Casting as combat feats for the purpose of this ability.

...

This ability replaces the sorcerer's bloodline powers gained 1st, 9th, and 15th levels.

and here's the relevant bit from the dragon disciple

Core Rulebook wrote:
Blood of Dragons: A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.

The question is in the title: Is the Eldritch Scrapper's Martial Flexibility a 'bloodline power', because it replaces regular bloodline powers?


Ultimate Combat wrote:
Mantis Torment: You gain one additional Stunning Fist attempt per day. While using Mantis Style, you make an unarmed attack that expends two daily attempts of your Stunning Fist. If you hit, your opponent must succeed at a saving throw against your Stunning Fist or become dazzled and staggered with crippling pain until the start of your next turn, and at that point the opponent becomes fatigued.

or, more simply (although at min 12th level instead of 9th)

Pathfinder Unchained wrote:
Stunning Fist (Ex): At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This condition replaces stunning the target for 1 round, and a successful saving throw still negates the effect. At 4th level, the monk can choose to make the target fatigued. At 8th level, he can make the target sickened for 1 minute. At 12th level, he can make the target staggered for 1d6+1 rounds. At 16th level, he can permanently blind or deafen the target. At 20th level, he can paralyze the target for 1d6+1 rounds. The monk must choose which condition will apply before the attack roll is made. These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature fatigued by Stunning Fist cannot become exhausted if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.

and then...

Core Rulebook wrote:
Gentle Rest (Sp): Your touch can fill a creature with lethargy, causing a living creature to become staggered for 1 round as a melee touch attack. If you touch a staggered living creature, that creature falls asleep for 1 round instead. Undead creatures touched are staggered for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Ultimate Combat wrote:
Domain Strike: When you gain this feat, choose one domain-granted power that you can use to affect no more than one opponent. If you make a successful unarmed strike against an opponent, in addition to dealing your unarmed strike damage, you can use a swift action to deliver the effects of the chosen granted power to that opponent. Doing so provokes no attacks of opportunity.

Can a character with Mantis Torment and Domain Strike tied to the Repose domain put a living creature to sleep (for 1 round) with one hit? Or, to put it another way, can this character activate Domain Strike after they learn if the 'Torment Punch' was successful?

Good night, sweet prince!


Yeah, you want the evil part, make the devil blood or unholy water only available if the caster does something evil to get it. If you have Eschew Materials, it means you're making your soul produce devil blood, which is also bad for you...


Tsutsuku wrote:
ohako wrote:
So how does this stack up against the original? What feat would you choose for level 11? Or would you go ancestral weapon half-elf and forgo Skill Focus (Intimidate)? (or find a way to keep that feat, or Dauntless Destiny?)

Definitely pick up EWP with the half-elf alternate trait, having a finessable reach weapon at early levels will keep you out of trouble and there's better ways to bump your intimidate. Consider the Extremely Fashionable trait for maximum rogueness.

Other feats to consider are Piranha Strike, which is power attack for finesse builds, and Improved Initiative for getting the sneak attacks started early. I almost hate to mention it after you just carefully removed the charisma, but Intimidating Gaze is good for making your intimidates stick during boss fights.

Piranha Strike does look nice, but I don't think you can use it with a branched spear (it says 'light weapon'). Works with unarmed strikes though, probably something to consider over Phalanx Formation. Intimidating Gaze is really bad, worse than the Inspired trait by a lot.

Okay, if I go Ancestral Arms for the alt racial trait, I'm thinking Elven Reflexes and something intimidaty for traits.

Step 1: Walk up to a bad guy, and kick him for nonlethal.
Step 2: If you hit, make a demoralize attempt. If you beat the DC by 0, then the duration of the demoralize is 1d6+1.
Step 3: If you get a 3 on damage, you can trade in those 4 rounds for one round of frightened. If you have domain strike, activate it at that point (causes staggered for 1 round).
Step 4: Now your opponent is frightened and possibly staggered. Take an AoO when they walk out of punching range, and another when they leave spear range.

This is possible by level 2, 3 for the domain strike. hee hee!


Can a half-elf gain proficiency with an elven branched spear by taking the trait Heirloom Weapon?


alright, let's try to tighten up this bad kicker here and see if we get any better

race: plain jane half-elf
class: unchained thug rogue 5/unchained monk 5/inquisitor of Pharasma 2 (Repose domain)
stats Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10

feats (and other choices)
1 thug Enforcer, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Weapon Finesse (use a sap for level 1)
2 monk Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes (grab a longspear, just in case)
3 inquisitor Domain Strike
4 monk Dodge (you don't have free hands if you're holding a longspear)
5 monk Mantis Style
6 monk ki power: ki range
7 monk Mantis Wisdom, style strike: spin kick
8 thug rogue talent: combat trick: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: elven branched spear (if you can convince a GM to let a half-elf gain this proficiency with the Heirloom Weapon trait, pick something else here)
9 thug Mantis Torment
10 thug rogue talent: combat swipe (grants Improved Steal)
11 thug Phalanx Formation?, skill unlock: Intimidate
12 inquisitor

Okay, let's unpack the changes

1. remove dependence on Cha. Dauntless Destiny is a really poor way to use an immediate action.
2. switching to Domain Strike instead of Sorcerous Strike. The best domain choices for this build are Chaos and Devil, but

a) Taking the Chaos domain is hard for a monk without switching alignments (varisian pilgrim cleric is one way around that)
b) The Devil domain can reduce saving throws as a swift action, which might not be fast enough to affect a saving throw against Stunning Fist
c) The Repose domain power can do mean things to an undead, while Enforcer and Brutal Beating won't
d) The Repose domain power gives a status (staggered) that has a representative on one of those condition cards.

Giving 4 conditions to a bad guy in one hit can be challenging for a GM. Putting down condition cards (with little skulls for round timers) will help alleviate the challenge.

3. Going inquisitor for a little dip adds some nice treats, including +3 Fort and 12 skill points instead of 4. Maybe some of those points can go to UMD for activating that wand of mage armor you'll need now.
4. Switching the level order means that you get to stagger on a punch at level 3, where you'd only sicken at level 3 if you had sneak attack. Taking the rogue levels later means you won't deal as much damage early on, but you'll always have a chance to use brutal beating on your spin kick.
5. Here's a thing you can do if you can't full-attack target

a) walk up to a bad guy
b) attack them with a non-lethal foot.
c) if you hit, use Frightening (or the Intimidate skill unlock) to frighten the bad guy
d) the bad guy moves away from you. If they do so clumsily, you might hit them with a kick or a hit from a spear (or both).
e) once you have oodles of money, get yourself a +1 sticky elven branched spear, and try to steal things as they run away from you.

So how does this stack up against the original? What feat would you choose for level 11? Or would you go ancestral weapon half-elf and forgo Skill Focus (Intimidate)? (or find a way to keep that feat, or Dauntless Destiny?)


Cap. Darling wrote:
Yes, yes, yes and the hair is a natural weapon with somthing very close to grab i dont Think you get weapon enhancments and stuff from the AoMF and stuff to that so i would say no to that.

So you're saying that if you grapple someone with a magic whip then you get the whip's bonuses, but if you grapple someone with white hair (and you scrubbed greater magic fang shampoo into your head that morning), that you're out of luck?


Oh nice, so there already are known exceptions to the standard list.

This means the answer is 'Yes, these', and two of them are basically called out already

a) A 13th-level polearm master can bull rush with a polearm. The polearm can be an elven branched spear, so you can use Weapon Finesse with that.
b) Someone with Shield Slam doesn't even have to roll CMB to try to bull rush with a shield. If you are so inclined, you can use Weapon Finesse with a light shield.


Kahuna, you need to lighten up.


Korlos wrote:
Net Maneuvering lets you make drag and reposition maneuvers with a net. Net Trickery lets you make dirty trick maneuvers with a net.

Yep! That's another example exactly. You can't use Weapon Finesse with a net in melee, but a magic net may (according to the answer of the question) give the wielder its enhancement bonus to these maneuvers.

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