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Pathfinder Society Member. 874 posts (875 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 5 Pathfinder Society characters.


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okay, so Cha to AC isn't as interesting as light armor? really?

Sorcerer 6/Fighter 1/EK 5

use the extra feat to grab Arcane Armor Training, and the extra feats from EK to nab Arcane Strike. Two levels off from spellcasting though.

another option would be

Sorcerer 6/Evangelist 6

which is 1 level down but nets you medium BaB (in exchange for +nothing to AC)


Socerer is a class that doesn't mind maximizing Charisma at the expense of other stats. Bard is probably the natural choice for Startoss, but bard isn't naturally SAD like sorcerer is. I like Startoss here because it's damage without being magic missile.


trying to a take a bite at the Charisma-tron again

Race: Human
Traits: Varisian Tattoo, ???
Class: Sorcerer 11/Scaled Fist UMonk 1
Feats
H: Divine Fighting Technique (Desna)
1st: Noble Scion (War)
3rd: Point-Blank Shot
5th: Weapon Focus (starknife)
7th: Startoss Style
9th: Startoss Comet
11th: Startoss Shower

1. You get mostly a sorcerer with +Cha to Init, hit, damage, and AC. Startoss for +6 to damage, and a circlet of persuasion (maybe) for +3 to hit and init.
2. Haven't decided on archetypes or bloodlines for Sorcerer. Possible choices would be Tattooed Sorcerer (for extra tattoo action) or the starsoul bloodline (the stars! they're everywhere!) or both.
3. There's a spare trait in there. Any ideas?
4. Evangelist and/or EK. Worth it?


I think you should throw the biggest things you can get your hands on. (Well, maybe just spears) And rather than focus on iteratives, you should go Vital Strike.

Ever read Nifft the Lean stories? Like in the A'rak, Nifft chucks a spear into a big spider demon thingy and kills it in one hit. He does that a bunch of times, and there's lots of mention of 'sinews' and what-not. That's kind of neat.

I bet you could make a really cool Vital Strike hurler using the Slayer class (because sneak attack and weapon styles and other to-hit goodies), and make a really good 'I throw death at it' build.


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I just got finished reading The Farthest Shore again, and one thing is obvious, at least in that universe: wizard < dragon

So, that got me thinking: what would be a good class build (martial or caster) be that could do something, by him/her/itself, about a dragon? Like, you know, a big scary one. Offense, defense, special abilities, you name it, please consider it.

I already know how to explore a dungeon. Not really sure what to do if it came to a fight with a dragon, however.


Hmm, not sure I buy the 'you're protected if you know it's coming' defense. A half-orc with Surprise Follow-Through will still 'surprise' foes when using Cleave, even if the surprise is spoilered. In this case, making your opponent's head explode with acid splash only works during the surprise round, so that's a limiting factor.


Here goes nothing

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Underhanded* (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a weapon. Furthermore, if she makes a sneak attack during the surprise round using a concealed weapon that her opponent didn't know about, she does not have to roll sneak attack damage, and the sneak attack deals maximum damage. A rogue can only use the underhanded talent a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0).

The key line here is 'concealed weapon that her opponent didn't know about'. I've always thought this meant that the rogue can't initiate the surprise round by drawing a concealed weapon (as a standard action), or brandishing an obvious natural weapon, or sniping. Instead, the rogue has to 'unconceal' a hidden weapon as a free action somehow (spring-loaded wrist sheath or a heavy wrist launcher), and then do the deed.

Text for the Conceal Spell feat, because it's looong:

Ultimate Intrigue wrote:

Conceal Spell: When you cast a spell or use a spell-like ability, you can attempt to conceal verbal and somatic components among other speech and gestures, and to conceal the manifestation of casting the spell, so others don't realize you're casting a spell or using a spell-like ability until it is too late. The attempt to hide the spell slows your casting slightly, such that spells that normally take a standard action to cast now take a full-round action, and spells that normally take longer than a standard action take twice as long. (Swift action spells still take a swift action.) To discover your ruse, a creature must succeed at a Perception, Sense Motive, or Spellcraft check (the creature receives an automatic check with whichever of those skills has the highest bonus) against a DC equal to 15 + your number of ranks in Bluff or Disguise (whichever is higher) + your Charisma modifier; the creature gains a bonus on its check equal to the level of the spell or spell-like ability you are concealing.

If your spell has a somatic component, any creature that can see you receives a Perception or Spellcraft check (whichever has the highest bonus) against a DC equal to 15 + your number of ranks in Sleight of Hand + your Dexterity modifier; the creature gains a bonus on its check equal to the level of the spell or spell-like ability you are concealing.

Since you are concealing the spell's manifestation through other actions, others observing you realize you're doing something, even if they don't realize you're casting a spell. If there is a verbal component, they still hear your loud, clear voice but don't notice the spell woven within.

If an opponent fails its check, your casting also does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and an opponent that fails its check can't use readied actions that depend on realizing that you're casting a spell or using a spell-like ability, or readied actions such as counterspelling that require identifying the spell you're casting. Spells such as fireball that create an additional obvious effect (aside from the manifestation of casting that all spells and spell-like abilities share) still create that effect, though it might not be obvious who cast the spell unless it emanates from you.

If a character interacts with you long enough to attempt a Sense Motive check without realizing you have been casting spells, that character can use Sense Motive to gain a hunch that you're behaving unusually.

So. Let's say a Cha 16 rogue has the minor magic rogue talent, selecting acid splash. And the rogue also has the underhanded talent, and the Conceal Spell feat.

1) Underhanded grants a +4 on the check to conceal a weapon. I know it's not a check, but would underhanded grant +4 to the DC to notice the somatic components of a concealed weapon-like spell?

2) If this rogue successfully conceals a casting of acid splash, does this satisfy underhanded's condition of 'a concealed weapon the opponent didn't know about'? In other words, is it 'too late'?

3) Not a rules question: good gravy is underhanded circumscribed. A talent from Ultimate Combat only works with something from Ultimate Intrigue or the Adventurers' Armory? Plus, a rogue with a low Charisma can take the talent and have it literally do nothing. Is there any other ability where 'minimum 0' is a thing? Plus, only pretty rogues get to be underhanded? What does Charisma even have to do with it?


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You could make a masterwork backpack out of darkleaf cloth. Sure, it's 3/4 as expensive as a handy haversack, but it will help Strength-dumped characters, gosh darnit!


Imbicatus wrote:
You could do the same thing with four less feats by just using a weighted spear and singing.

Geez, now they just need to come out with a 'weighted elven branch totem longspear', and I'd be all set.


Here's the outline of a...well, it's not optimal

Race: Human (or Half-Elf)
Class: Bard
Feats
H: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (totem spear)
1: Weapon Focus (totem spear)
3: Two-Weapon Fighting
5: Spear Dancer Style
7: Weapon Finesse
9: Spear Dancer Spiral
11: Spear Dancer Torrent

So, something of a standard bard, but you can sing, dance, and play the spear! How you can play an aeolian spear when the holes are jammed into someone's guts is best left unanswered. The question is: what next?

a) what traits would you pick?
b) human or half-elf? Or some other way to cadge EWP for the totem spear?
c) any bard archetype call out to combine with this? I would kind of like to keep versatile performance,but other than that I'm open.
d) Spear Dancer Style I know has some problems where you take feats that don't do you any good, and then the style unlocks them for you (+Dex to hit at level 9...). Would it be a good idea, or, uh, let's stay away from 'good' and use 'better'. Would it be better to multiclass fighter in there somewhere? Maybe 2 levels?


Varisia, Birthplace of Legends wrote:
Totem Spear:Favored by the Shoanti of the Sklar-Quah, totem spears combine deadly weapons with the mournful music of Varisia’s displaced natives. The shovel-like heads of these broad spears are decorated with variously oriented hollows. In addition to its use as a weapon, a totem spear can be played using the Perform (wind instrument) skill.

Very simply: If you have a masterwork totem spear, do you get +2 to Perform (wind instrument) checks?


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so you're saying modern cows are masterwork.

Okay, so if a cow is 50gp, then a masterwork cow would be, what, 100gp? Ta~da: modern cow.


stack that sneak attack all you want. This is why the feat Merciless Butchery was switched from a swift action to a standard action. Now it's more like 'take-your-time butchery'.


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There's always Bokrug. You can turn into a typical version of...whatever its species is as early as 13th level, oracle or wizard. Elven and aasimar oracles used to be able to do it faster, but, well, you know...errata...


Oh well, it was worth a shot.


Starglim wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
Starglim wrote:
2) Bonuses to apply to day jobs must be usable for the undefined duration that extends between scenarios and must benefit either all uses of the skill, or specifically the use of the skill to earn cash. No to both.
The "You gain a +4 bonus on Heal checks" is permanent, and applies to the entire skill.
Agreed. The OP's question 2) was whether he could double the day job result by providing long term care to two people at once.

Yep. Actually, Healing Hands lets you provide long-term care to 12 people at once instead of 6. In fact, you get to double the number of people you can do any of the basic Heal check things to: first aid, treating deadly wounds, treating poison, long-term care. The only thing you don't get to double are weird edge-case Heal checks, like implanting ioun stones.

So, I know this is hard: if you have two characters with max ranks in Heal, Skill Focus: Heal, the Caregiver trait, and the Temple vanity, the both of them together earn twice the amount on Day Job checks than a single character with Healing Hands, even though the Healing Hands character can do the work of two people?

Do I have that right?

Also, restful sleep or not, if I was a wizard who wanted to replace one of his teeth with a ioun stone, I am absolutely sure that surgery would go better if the dentist dosed me with a knockout drug first. Pity there aren't rules for using poisons and drugs when practicing medicine. That's gotta make the dentist's chair a little screamy.


In order to use Heal as a Day Job, you have to have either the Temple vanity or the Faith Healer trait (and be an aasimar).

Core Rulebook wrote:
Heal: Providing long-term care requires 8 hours of light activity.

Presumably this is what you're doing when you're performing Heal as a Day Job. I presume this because the Craft and Profession skills also have a per diem use.

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Healer's Kit: This collection of bandages and herbs provides a +2 circumstance bonus on Heal checks. A healer's kit is exhausted after 10 uses.

So here's the masterwork tool for the Heal skill.

When you use Craft as a Day Job, the cost of the raw materials you consume/purchase while working is abstracted away. When you Craft, you spend gp on raw materials (which is 0), and finished goods come out the other end that you sell for gp. So, when you Heal as a Day Job, the cost of your raw materials (bandages, salves, herbs, etc.) is also abstracted away, and healed bodies come out the other end (and then you, uh, bill their health insurance).

1) If you buy a masterwork tool for Heal (ie a Healer's Kit), do you get a +2 on Day Job checks?

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
Healing Hands (Ex): You gain a +4 bonus on Heal checks. You may provide first aid to two people or treat two people for poison as a standard action (make a separate Heal check for each creature). When using the Heal skill to treat wounds from caltrops (and so on), treat deadly wounds, treat poison, treat disease, or treat long-term care, you may treat double the normal number of people you may treat at the same time. You may provide long-term care for yourself.

2) If the thing you're doing as a Day Job is providing long-term care, and an oracle with the Healer's Hands revelation can treat twice as many people per day, does the oracle earn twice as much gp for doing their Day Job?

This last one is only kinda a PFS question.

One of the weirder things you can do with a Heal check is to perform surgery (fleshgrafting, implanting ioun stones, etc.). A healer's kit has 'salves' in it, I'm guessing stuff like aloe vera, willow bark, and maybe some soap. For those complicated surgeries, I'd really like something a little stronger.

3) If someone trained in Heal is going to perform surgery, could they buy a dose of drow poison to use on the subject? Or, perhaps you're trying to keep someone mortally wounded from getting worse: a dose of opium to dull the pain perhaps?


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huh. that works. soothsayer's rainment plus a mnemonic vestment plus a scroll of divination. That's not going to let my character light demons on fire with my mind, but it's neat nonetheless.

I like the idea of the pre-asked questions for commune. I've often found that using that spell in a group leads to a whole session being wasted on arguing over which questions to ask.


Huh. Maybe I'll just stick to blessing of fervor.


Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Soothsayer's Rainment: For divination spells with a percentage-based chance of success (such as augury and divination), the wearer's chance increases by +5.

Okay, so, an oracle in PFS picks the spell divination, and buys this fancy chainmail. Then what?

I've played a fair amount of low-level PFS, and I can say that the party usually doesn't need a cryptic rhyme to help solve the mystery. (ie, mysteries in PFS are written so that Scooby Doo could solve them).

1. Is divination a good spell to pick for anyone in PFS, or any spontaneous caster for that matter?
2. Is a divination scroll worth 700gp in PFS?
3. For adventures written with the possibility of 8th-level oracles in mind (or nutcase 3rd-level clerics who bought seer's tea), do the writeups contain helpful (or screwy, in case of failure) cryptic rhymes that the GM can crib?

Ugh.

4. So, Horror Adventures is out, as well as all of those new occult books. What are some good build ideas for Scooby and the gang? Shaggy can be a hunter with a riding dog animal companion...then what?


So here's a thing I want to do: I want to make a character that can inspire an NPC to become a paladin by incepting them the right dream. Or, similar shenanigans like making up prophecies, inspiring a work of art, showing pictures of a subject's grave in the future, etc.

Core Rulebook wrote:
dream: You, or a messenger you touch, send a message to others in the form of a dream. At the beginning of the spell, you must name the recipient or identify him or her by some title that leaves no doubt as to identity. The messenger then enters a trance, appears in the intended recipient's dream, and delivers the message. The message can be of any length, and the recipient remembers it perfectly upon waking. The communication is one-way. The recipient cannot ask questions or offer information, nor can the messenger gain any information by observing the dreams of the recipient.

1) What sort of form can the message take? Could you deliver a symphony, or a picture, or a feeling?

2) Could a wizard disguise themselves as an angel (or, say, a burning bush) before casting dream?

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:
Dreamshaper (Sp): At 9th level, you [a dreamspun-blooded sorcerer] can manipulate the dreamscape of others, drawing forth or tampering with their subconscious minds. This power allows you to tamper with the target's memories as if using modify memory, or you may ask questions as if using speak with dead upon a corpse. A successful Will save negates the effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier, with further modifiers as the nightmare spell. You can use this ability once per day at 9th level. At 17th level you can use this ability twice per day, and at 20th, three times per day.

3) Most other effects that muck with dreams have unlimited range (see dream, dream scan, dream travel, and nightmare). Does the dreamshaper bloodline ability also have unlimited range? Or will my character always get the -10 to the target's Will save with some scissors and an easy Sleight of Hand check?

Core Rulebook wrote:

modify memory: You reach into the subject's mind and modify as many as 5 minutes of its memories in one of the following ways.

  • Eliminate all memory of an event the subject actually experienced. This spell cannot negate charm, geas/quest, suggestion, or similar spells.
  • Allow the subject to recall with perfect clarity an event it actually experienced.
  • Change the details of an event the subject actually experienced.
  • Implant a memory of an event the subject never experienced.

Casting the spell takes 1 round. If the subject fails to save, you proceed with the spell by spending as much as 5 minutes (a period of time equal to the amount of memory you want to modify) visualizing the memory you wish to modify in the subject. If your concentration is disturbed before the visualization is complete, or if the subject is ever beyond the spell's range during this time, the spell is lost.

A modified memory does not necessarily affect the subject's actions, particularly if it contradicts the creature's natural inclinations. An illogical modified memory is dismissed by the creature as a bad dream, too much wine, or another similar excuse.

4) Can you make the target aware that the 'memory' they are experiencing is a dream? As in, sure it's a dream, but that doesn't make whatever concept was imparted any less important?

5) I would like to visualize extremely complicated things such as symphonic music, a world made of paint, a city on another plane, the architectural drawings to the Tower of Babel, etc. What sort of check would it be to do that? Craft (dreamscape)?

6) What sort of check would it be to 'affect the subject's actions' as a result of one or multiple dreamshapings? Diplomacy?

Occult Adventures wrote:
Dimension of Dreams:
  • Flowing Time: Both lucid bodies and creatures visiting the Dimension of Dream with their physical bodies are subject to the flowing time trait of a given dreamscape.
Game Mastery Guide wrote:
Flowing Time: On some planes, the flow of time is consistently faster or slower. One may travel to another plane, spend a year there, and then return to the Material Plane to find that only 6 seconds have elapsed. Everything on the plane returned to is only a few seconds older. But for that traveler and the items, spells, and effects working on him, that year away was entirely real. When designating how time works on planes with flowing time, put the Material Plane's flow of time first, followed by the flow in the other plane.

7) Modify memory gives you 5 minutes to work with. In a dream, how long is 5 minutes? Could I pull off The Inner Light on someone?


1. lullaby isn't on the Sor/Wiz list, otherwise that's a good suggestion (apparently lullabies aren't part of the standard books of ancient lore')
2. I agree that sleep as a 2nd-level spell and deep slumber as a 4th level spell aren't ideal. There's the oracle mystery awesome display for knocking around the HD limit on color spray, is there something similar for sleep effects?
3. There's prediction of failure, but as a 9th-level spell I'd rather just cast implosion.


I'm liking the combination of the dreamspeaker alternate racial trait and the ancient lorekeeper archetype for oracle. Spells you take as a lorekeeper that are divinations or sleep effects are at +2 DC, once for the trait and once because the spell is a higher level. So I have need of advice for which spells to pick.

1. Which 0-level spell is good enough to want to use a 1st-level slot on?
2. What are some good spells that are

a) on the Wiz/Sor list but not on the Clr/Ora list?
b) divination school or a 'sleep effect'?
c) offer a saving throw to a target?

3. What's a 'sleep effect' anyway? Does color spray count? eyebite or scintillating pattern?


advice on how to play your 'wrong' character.

Let's say that you started out life as a paladin, heading off to battle the Worldwound. Sometime in the last 5 years, you fell, hard. Presumably when you wake up in the looney bin, you're not fallen anymore, right?


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How about ending at level 6? Think about it: every time you go down a level (in the dungeon), you go up a level in XP?

There's no reason that you need 20 ranks of something to make it worthwhile. Just make the table have really thick rows.


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Hey Lyric, you can change your song from 'seven color' to 'decoy'!

The decoy ring is unaffected by any of this craziness. 12,000gp for 2 rounds of unbreakable invisibility _whenever I darn well please_, _plus_ illusionary duplicates.

My slayer/rogue gives obeisance to the Demigod of Retconjuration, and promptly disappears (and sprays illusionary duplicates of himself everywhere).


Lorewalker, nice find. A summoner could take the Lookout feat, imbue it into a ring of tactical precision, and then hand it to an eidolon with the Bodyguard feat for an extra +1 AC.

That's not too shabby. Move and stab from a melee eidolon during the surprise round (or a 'pounce' if the surprise is in melee) might well be worth 11,000gp.


One of the common things you do in Pathfinder is the old standby 'roll Perception to see if you're surprised'. Now, an eidolon has this little gem of a power

Pathfinder Unchained wrote:
Link (Ex): A summoner and his eidolon share a mental link that allows for communication across any distance (as long as they are on the same plane). This communication is a free action, allowing the summoner to give orders to his eidolon at any time.

If one of the pair makes the check, is the other one surprised? Is a summoner making a Perception check 'take two and keep highest', or not?


I'm really digging the design of the Sandpoint Devil (carnivorous devil horse that breathes fire), and there's a mini for it and everything.

If I played an unchained summoner in PFS, could I choose the hooves evolution from Ultimate Magic for my eidolon?


So, let's say I'm playing your bog-standard 'burger truck' demon eidolon. By 12th level, I've got 5 attacks (the maximum): a tail with a stinger, some wing buffets, and the claws Lamashtu gave me. Great.

Now, at 19th (!) level, I'll have 7 attacks maximum, and let's say I mostly want to preserve my burger truck allure (so, no tentacles, no extra arms if I can help it, etc.). What options do I have?

As far as I can tell, the best option would be a gore attack and a bite attack (costing 3 evolution points). And the nice part is there are a number of creatures that already do this gore-and-bite routine: a bunch of dragons, gargoyles, and even some types of demons. So that sort of combat is well-established.

However.

When I think about what sorts of appendages I'd like to wiggle at people in order to hurt them (uh, for physical hit point damage, at least), if I had a choice, I'd rather not use my actual head. I'd much prefer, say, to use my legs instead. For one thing, they're longer. For another, if I happen to be 12 feet tall during a moment of duress, I'd much rather step on some do-gooder halfling than bend down and bite him. Somewhat undignified, I might say.

Question 1: Could I (an unchained eidolon) take the hooves evolution from Ultimate Magic? Could I take other evolutions from pre-Unchained books (other than the APG)? Could my summoner learn spells that are summoner spells but don't appear on the unchained summoner list in Pathfinder Unchained (such as the best one, lesser infernal healing)?

Question 2: Can a bipedal eidolon (with only one limbs [legs] evolution) take the claws evolution on their feet? Every other biped (in the hardcover bestiaries at least) with 'feet claws' have them listed as 'talons'. If you can take 'feet claws', would they just be talons instead of claws?

So a single head can hold a gore attack and a bite attack.

Question 3: Can other combinations of 'one appendage two attacks' work as well? Even though there are no creatures in bestiaries that do this, would tail slap-and-sting work? Or claws-and-slam?


Yeah, so, I guess I'm not often inspired to make a Pathfinder character out of a video game character, but this character was so weird, I had to give it a try.

So there's this game Sadame for the 3DS, and it's basically a hack-and-slash through Sengoku-era Japan, only all the historical figures are either demons, undead, or have mecha-suits. And there's 4 classes: samurai, monk, ninja, and 'rogue'.

The rogue is weird. She wields ranged weapons (bows, crossbows, guns) and a polearm, and she's got a ton of buff spells to boot. In theory she's based on Izumo no Okuni, who supposedly founded the art of kabuki. Nice job if you can get it! I'm thinking more of a 'polearm bard' myself. How's this for a build

Izumo-chan
Female elf bard/fighter

Levels and Feats

1/Ftr 1: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (elven branched spear)
2/Brd 1: --
3/Ftr 2: Two-Weapon Fighting, Spear Dancing Style
4/Brd 2: --
5/Ftr 3: Elven Battle Training
6/Ftr 4: Elven Battle Style
7/Ftr 5: Weapon Style Mastery
8/Brd 3: --
9/Brd 4: Elven Battle Focus (+Int to damage: neat!)
10/Ftr 6: Spear Dancing Spiral (useless!)
11/Ftr 7: Elven Battle Torrent
12/Ftr 8 Spear Dancing Reach

And of course there's a giant bag of feats I want to stuff in there: Combat Expertise, maybe Weapon Trick (polearm), etc. So many feats, so few slots.

So, 2/3 a fighter, 1/3 a bard (typical for a slash-em-up), with two kinda complementary fighting styles. 2nd level spells, a little bardic music, and probably a lot more skill points than your average fighter.

What do you think? Any advice? Would you take the 'kabuki rogue' in a different direction?


I was poking through all the combat style feats recently, and there's a big chunk of unarmed styles, and a few styles that focus on other stuff (mostly from the Melee Tactics Toolbox).

I realize this is like 'the one true feat chain' for natural attack eidolons, but is there a style chain for 'appendages'?

Like, 'if you hit an opponent with attacks from 3 or more different limbs/appendages in a round, X happens'. Anything like that at all? Aside from lots of damage, I mean.


heh heh. sounds good to me. Open sexuality is one of those sins that's only sinful if you think it is.

Say a worshiper of Calistria seduces a married cleric of Erastil. Well, the cleric probably loses his powers, and now his marriage is on the rocks. Now let's say the same Calistrian seduces a married cleric of Arshea. Nothing happens! Well, if the Arshean is Lawful, that might be a Chaotic act (breaking marriage vows, if strictly monogamous, which would be weird for an Arshean, but Lawful Arshean clerics are already weird), but it's not an Evil one.

Pretty cool, huh? One ethos sees the act as sinful, the other does not. Isn't polytheism fun?

I'm surprised there isn't a 'Rasputin-like' sect somewhere in Golarion, where the clerics or other religious do weird or gross things in exchange for spiritual enlightenment. See Kapalika for a possible example. Maybe that's one way to play a Neutral cleric of Rovagug.

Anyway, one angle for a 'House of Welcome' to be less Calistrian and more Arshean is to check out the movie The Sessions. Makes it less about the exchange of money and more about the act, yeah?


Let's say I want to play a summoner whose eidolon acts as a bodyguard

a) Any way to give that eidolon the Arcane Strike feat? Gloves of arcane striking would certainly be handy (and also the feat itself is a nice boost for an eidolon to using a swift).
b) Are benevolent bracers of armor worth it, or should the eidolon just stick to mage armor? Is there a way to 'enchant' mage armor with an added effect?
c) A bit of a side question: any way other than a feat, evolution points, lesser bracers of archery, or a 10,000gp white pyramidal ioun stone to give an eidolon a ranged weapon proficiency?


Oh lookie, a half-orc slayer2/unchained rogue X

How does it work?

1 Slayer 1: Improved Initiative
2 URogue 1: sneak attack +1d6
3 Slayer 2: Power Attack, Ranger Combat Style: two-handed style: Cleave
4 URogue 2: rogue combat trick: Surprise Follow-Through

aside from my crap will save, this is a great beginning. I have a natural attack too, and unless I'm standing still for some reason, I tend to want to try and Cleave bad guys instead of trying to bite them. Mooks trying to gang up in tight quarters happens pretty frequently. better still: if I can flank the first cleave target, then I can maybe sneak attack both

5 URogue 3: more sneak attack, that finesse thing so I have a backup if I take Strength damage, and Step Up

wanna mess with a flanker or other 5-foot shenanigans? Step Up is the way to go! Beautifully versatile, can help set up Cleaves

7 URogue 5: Press to the Wall

Now try and find a situation where there are two bad guys adjacent, and one of them isn't threatened by anybody else but is standing in front of a pillar or wall. Can't be that hard. Plus there's no 'roll to feint' garbage to get your flank bonus either. You can just flank with trees all day long.

9 URogue 7: Vital Strike
11 URogue 9: All-Consuming Swing

So I blew all my cool tricks to get lots of bonus feats early, and now I can't really afford going in to Cleaving Smash. Plus, +11 BaB on a mostly rogue is a mostly no-go. I'll take this instead.


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I don't know the math vs. not the math. Here's my thing on why 'noticing the sun' matters, and why I think in the rules a gelatinous cube falls prone.

Scenario

A traveler on a grassy plain, sunny day. A half-orc rogue, using a potion of fly, a pair of greater sniper's goggles, and a longbow, wants to sneak attack the traveler. How to do so with the tools at hand?

You can't use Stealth, because there's no cover. You can't really surprise the traveler, because let's say he's wary of strangers. The rogue does not have a source of invisibility.

Sub-scenario 1

The traveler looks up at the sun and is instantly blinded. The sun is very hard to miss. The rogue knows this, and flies between the traveler and the sun, and so is always invisible to the traveler. Sure, the rogue's shadow passes across the traveler's eyes, but the traveler is still blind if the rogue is far enough away. Thus, the rogue is a death machine.

Sub-scenario 2

The traveler looks up at the sun and fails to notice it, because of goofy rules involving distance and Perception. Because the traveler cannot see the sun, the only source of light, the traveler is thus sightless. The half-orc gets to within 60 ft. of the traveler and sneak attacks at will.

Either the sun isn't obvious and is therefore not there to protect the traveler, or the sun would blind you if you looked at it (which then provides a source of invisibility for the rogue). Except that 'blinding yourself by looking at the sun' is not listed as a hazard anywhere in the Pathfinder rules.

QED: A gelatinous cube falls prone.


lesse, you've got

a) a cleric of Asmodeus
b) an inquisitor of Zon-Kuthon
c) an antipaladin
d) a hellknight armiger
e) a dhampir necromancer
f) a tiefling rogue

that seems like a good crew of heroic rebels to me!

It's not like 'good' guys have to answer the call to 'liberate' Kintargo. I think bad guys beating up other bad guys works just as well (kinda more realistic when you see how nasty recent civil wars have been)

I don't really know much about Hell's Rebels. Would it be a major re-write to either feature evil vs. evil through the whole campaign? (Or, enough of the campaign to root out the 'real' rebels and go back to being official bad guys after book 3?)


Mark Seifter wrote:
Matrix Dragon wrote:
It makes sense to me. If you go unconscious or get dazed while flying you are technically still in control of the spell, you just aren't telling to to keep you in the air. It says that it takes concentration to fly after all. Seriously, do you expect a 3rd level spell to have a protective safety cushion against every possible downside or counter?

The main thing is that there is a Fly check required each round with a requisite action to take that check. Nothing in the fly spell indicates that you can ignore Fly checks (indeed, if you could, it should be perfect maneuverability and/or there's no reason to give a bonus on them for the magic making it easy). Of the conditions mentioned here (dazed, stunned, and paralyzed), dazed and stunned clearly prevent all actions and thus prevent the action to make the Fly check. As Entryhazard points out, only paralysis was really in contention, since it could theoretically be a purely mental action. However, paralysis gives you 0 Dexterity, so you can't make Dex-based skill checks, of which the Fly check to stay aloft is one.

All that being said, I'm not convinced that making Fly a new Dex-based skill and making maneuverabilities basically not matter if you have ranks (compared to 3.5) works better than either the old system or an even-more streamlined version (when the clumsy dragon has 20 ranks and is more maneuverable than the hummingbird, I scratch my head a bit), but given how the Fly skill works, the fact that action denial makes you fall follows.

Hmm. Here's a question

1. Let there be a character with maximum ranks in Fly and the trait Wisdom in the Flesh, targeting Fly. Fly (for them) is now a Wisdom-based skill.
2. Let that character be paralyzed mid-flight.

Does the character fall down?


I don't know if this is for PFS for not. If it isn't, go cram Deceitful and Cunning Caster in there. If it is...wait for Ultimate Intrigue :(


@Nohwear That paragraph in the ubran hunter archetype is really strange

a) I don't know if this matters, but swans and camels are vicious bastard animals. I don't really understand how an urban hunter can make one of those look non-threatening. Maybe hairstyling? The right mouthwash?

So, a bystander watches someone's pet swan bite someone's head off.

b) an urban hunter can 'calm' the bystander with a Handle Animal check? they're not an animal, how does that work? the hunter rubs menthol on the bystander's tummy?
c) what does it mean to 'calm' someone, anyway? Like, does the swan have maximum ranks in Intimidate and the Dreadful Carnage feat and the hunter needs to keep everyone calm?
d) What about that hunter's tiefling witch/barbarian buddy cackling and evil eyeing all those bar mooks? How would you calm someone who saw that?

@Kevin yeah, I saw that thread. a) the banhammer (and the thread) predate the recent 'all spells are shiny' FAQ, and b) I figure I'd actually put forth the concise argument that was asked for.


I've never done this before (advocating a PFS legality issue), and there might be a format or template I'm missing here, but here goes anyway.

We now know (thanks to a recent FAQ) which spells are noticed by onlookers, and which aren't (answer: all are noticed, even without noticeable components).

I have always wanted to pull off the 'these aren't the droids you're looking for' scene from Star Wars, but under the recent FAQ, I basically can't (with a few exceptions).

Here are all of the PFS-legal exceptions I can think of

1. A rakshasa bloodline sorcerer could pass off a charm person as an innocuous spell, but only if innocuous spellcasting was seen as otherwise harmless.
2. A 9th-level sandman bard.
3. A (presumably non-sandman) bard using the Spellsong feat.
4. Someone casting a spell with only somatic components (deaf oracles say hi) and the feat Secret Signs.
5. A Dawnflower Dissident, although to get charm person with this build you'd need to be a separatist cleric with the Charm domain (and thus to qualify for the prestige class you'll need another way to cadge scimitar proficiency), or a juju oracle (of Sarenrae...weird)

So there's five different ways where casting spells in front of onlookers without their knowledge is already legal in PFS. If the goal is to prevent covert casting, that catbag has sailed.

So let's talk Cunning Caster for a minute. It's a way to cast spells covertly, only it requires a successful Bluff against everybody in the room, and there are big penalties for using components of any kind. And let's also say that it's pretty obvious which character would be an optimized user of Cunning Caster: the mesmerist.

So here's a list of optimizations that a mesmerist gets to using Cunning Caster

a) Cha-based spellcasting, which gives a bonus on Bluff checks (and opposed Cha checks while using charm person)
b) a built-in bonus to Bluff checks
c) hypnotic stare, which gives a penalty to a target's Will saving throw (and possibly also Perception checks)
d) psychic spellcasting, which forgoes verbal and somatic components completely.

Suffice to say, they'd be good at it. So here's my arguments.

1. There are already a bunch of ways to covert cast. Cunning Caster doesn't stop those ways that are already out there.

2. Mesmerists do not have any other good options for covert spellcasting. All the other options (even Secret Signs) rely on classes or abilities that aren't the mesmerist. And don't forget: there's language in the hypnotic stare feature that prevents the stare's target from being aware the stare is happening. Why is that language even there, if there are no built-in class features or legal feats that can take advantage of that? What are they supposed to do: ~look into my eyes, yes, that's it, aren't my eyes very pretty?~

3. It's still two rolls. Let's say you're a barbarian, and you want to smash a bad guy's face with a hammer. So, roll to hit. Say you're a wizard, and there's something about the shape of that column finial that seems familiar. So, roll a knowledge check. Almost all of the things PCs want to do to affect their environment are one roll to do (or fail). There is a reason why using feint to sneak attack is such a bad idea. So you feint? Fine, you still have to roll to hit, with a 3/4 BaB class against a giant with a monster natural armor bonus anyway. Same with casting defensively: you don't do it unless you have to. Nobody likes those odds. I'd say the only saving grace of phantasmal killer is that the effect of its target failing the two saving throws is so powerful: they die. No other spell with two rolls would possibly be worth it.

4. I got one more: telempathic projection, charm person's psychic kid brother. How is this spell even usable unless you can cast it on the sly? Even with the no-save ability, unless you covert cast you're going to instantly bring your target to a hostile attitude if they see you casting. What's a +5 bonus going to do when you've effectively just flipped the table?

So, I'm all done. Maybe Cunning Caster will be made legal, or maybe we just get to wait for Ultimate Intrigue. Or maybe we get to wait for Ultimate Intrigue to find an updated version of Cunning Caster that's also PFS-banned. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


For completeness sake, I'll also note that the feats Cunning Caster and Subtle Devices from Heroes of the Streets can give a caster a skill check to pass in order to cast covertly.

Sadly, those feats aren't currently PFS-legal, whereas the others are

the list for covert casting any spell (not just elixir of love), as it stands today

a) the rakshasa bloodline (for sorcerers)
b) the sandman archetype (for bards)
c) the Spellsong feat (for non-sandman bards)
d) the Secret Signs feat (for deaf oracles)
e) the Dawnflower Dissident prestige class (for, wow, separatist clerics of Sarenrae with the Charm domain or juju oracles who worship Sarenrae)
f) the feats Secret Caster and Subtle Devices (for practically anybody)


try playing a rogue? sure, you can still kill the whatever, but to do it really well, you have to move around, get into a flanking position, worry about flanking from somewhere else...

I find it's pretty exciting. Then again, I don't get to play very often.


FLite wrote:
More amusingly, you can ask your GM if your eidolon can use you as a masterwork tool prop ("surely you wish to aid the hero of the crimson tower" gestures at summoner)

I do like that one the best, although the eidolon I have in mind is going to have a hard time referring to its summoner as anything other than 'medicine chest', 'healer's kit', or 'utility belt'.


Let's say you're playing a summoner who's really really shy, and an eidolon who isn't (and who has taken ranks in social skills).

Now let's say you get a chronicle sheet that gives you a bonus to a social skill based on some in-game interactions during the scenario (+2 to Diplomacy vs. Aspis Consortium tengu, +2 to Intimidate vs. Ulfen humans living in Sargava, whatever).

The summoner has no interest or ability in using social skills on any NPCs, much less bluffing left-handed one-eyed genies from Nidal. Can the eidolon gain the benefit of the chronicle instead?


Uh, I switched my PFS Strength-based slayer/rogue to a slayer/urogue. Pretty easy decision, actually. Does it matter to me that I've got an option I'll 'never' use?

I dunno, how many times in my career am I going to take Strength damage from poison, or from a shadow, or get hit with a ray of enfeeblement? I like the idea of just busting my kerambit out of my hairdo and just going to town with that. Sure, it's not greataxe damage, but it's still competitive.


Uh, hey, @mdt, I quoted Ultimate Equipment right there. It says you can use two materials when making an item, but only the prevalent material applies.

So, what does 'prevalent' mean?

If the darkwood is more prevalent, does that mean that if I add cold iron to the stabby part of the spear, it won't cut into a demon?

If the cold iron is more prevalent, does that mean that if I take a weight of iron, and another weight of cold iron (of equal volume), and put them on a scale, that the cold iron will weigh more?

(An aside, does a darkwood spear have the special properties of a wooden stake?)

Now consider an urgrosh. It is perfectly legal to make the axe head of an urgrosh out of cold iron, and probably legal to make the spear haft (and, I guess, the point) out of darkwood. It weighs 6 lbs, and you can chop up demons into kindling with the axe head.

Now take this perfectly legal urgrosh, chop the axe head off and glue it onto the other end, and you sorta have a halberd if you squint. Which material is more prevalent?


hmm, I wonder a little about the effect the feat is intended to have: you cast a spell (or use a magic item) and nobody notices. Great if you want to maintain invisibility using a ring of invisibility, that's for sure!

Still.

A character can walk around invisible, or magically disguised, or just using Stealth. You're effectively hiding your identity. Effects like Spellsong and Secret Caster exist, which make the same thing happen: nobody knows where the spell came from.

I think that an invisible or disguised caster (or just someone who wanted to be sneaky) would definitely want this feat, because it fits in with everything they're already trying to do: that is, to crack an encounter without using combat.

There's a spell I'd like to cast in a social situation: telempathic projection. If my target or my target's friends saw the casting or noticed the spellcasting, I'd probably be attacked, on the presumption that the spell could be charm person or fireball. How exactly can I use this spell in a social situation if I'm not sneaky about it?

Cunning Caster and Subtle Devices should be legal for PFS, or spells that aren't applicable in combat should be removed from the additional resources.


???

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Weapons and armor can be crafted using materials that have innate special properties. If you make a suit of armor or a weapon out of more than one special material, you get the benefit of only the most prevalent material. However, you can build a double weapon with each head made of a different special material.

A spear: 2 gp.

A cold iron spear: 4 gp.
A darkwood-hafted spear: 362 gp.
Tip it with cold iron: 362 * 2 = 724 gp (or possibly you don't double the masterwork component, so 300 + (62 * 2) = 424 gp)

A spear weighs 6 lbs. A darkwood spear weighs 3 lbs. A cold iron spear can be used to hurt a demon when you stab it with the pointy end.

If you stick a cold iron point onto a darkwood spear shaft, and you stab a demon with it, do you pierce the demon's damage reduction? If you do, does the spear suddenly gain 3 lbs of weight?


Okay, so far so good. Consensus holds that I can bluff the guards into not noticing the casting, and then I can get away with various spells that aren't totally obvious.

One more question before busting out the kitsune mesmerist with a snake familiar: would psychic spells, without metamagic, still incur Bluff penalties for using thought and emotion components?

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