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ohako's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 540 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 4 Pathfinder Society characters.


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I like mixing sensei with ki mystic. You can spend 1 ki to give anyone a +4 to a skill check, that seems nice, with inspire competence on top.

well, a weird question I guess, but I figure if silver is so nice to have around, then maybe copper, gold, or bronze would be important too?

I think I'll stick with the axe. something + plus buckler is very tempting, but it's not a sure thing.

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Imbicatus wrote:
Why not use a heavy bashing spiked shield and do both?

I know it's fluffy, but I have a hard time imagining how someone would deal precision damage with a shield. A shield is like the opposite of 'precision'.

I had an idea for a tengu free-hand fighter who would steal opponents weapons with the use of a flail. 'Mr. Magpie' (although this was pre-Crane Wing nerf)

I had a different idea for a tengu shigenju oracle of metal, just for being a fighty kind of oracle (for an all-oracle party, weirdly)

mmmm...I had an entirely different idea for a party mobbing scenarios, and it's this: a family of LG Erastil-worshipping halfling savages on wolves (all taking the traits Beast Bond and Kin Bond) (even if you stick with tengu, Kin Bond would be a very thematic trait)

1. an outrider halfling cavalier of the paw, spewing out decent teamwork feats (Coordinated Defense, Coordinated Manuevers), fun saving throw rerolls and being a mounted frontliner
2. an outrider halfling seeker oracle of nature, using the friend of the animals revelation to boost half your party's saving throws sky-high, also handles divine casting and trapfinding (curse is wolfscarred, for obvious theme and early access to greater magic fang)
3. an outrider halfling wildblooded sorcerer (fey->sylvan bloodline), taking care of arcane casting, also while mounted
4. an outrider halfling animal speaker bard, throws out inspire courage to 8 characters rather than 4, has to take the Animal Ally feat to get a wolf, and can talk to the oracle's Int 6 wolf at level 1.

Imagine going to the scenario briefing with a dead goat, and having wolves eat it while the VC tries to keep their thoughts in order.

The all-oracle party was

1. a tengu shingejo oracle of metal (fighty oracle)
2. an elf oracle of the heavens (curse blackened, the blasty oracle)
3. an aasimar oracle of life (healy oracle)
4. a halfling seeker oracle of the dark tapestry (curse deafened, the roguey oracle)

you can still totally do that with all tengu, surely.


So, I've got a choice, and all my feats are picked out already.

I'm playing a half-orc slayer 2/rogue X (eventually). Right now I'm just 1 and 1

Should I go with my trusty greataxe? Or would a sword-and-buckler combination contribute enough AC to matter?

Another question might be (because this is PFS): Are there two really good +1 armor enhancements that would be worth saving the difference between putting them both on the same armor?

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wait, why do it in space if you don't have a spaceship?

a) space is like in the Little Prince/Firefly. occasionally you'll find an interesting asteroid with something living on it, and you either kill it or steal it
b) call the area the 'Stolen Quadrant' or something
c) Reavers. also Thundercats


You could use it to really scare the crap out of an intelligent item.

You could use it to break a magic weapon easily (a non-magical weapon doesn't have the extra hardness/hit points).

Let's say you used it on the door to Moria: congratulations, you just turned a magic stone door into a stone wall? not so good...

You could kill a bunch of people on a flying carpet. Just make sure you have a snapleaf handy. Same thing with killing via pressure damage inside an apparatus of the crab. why am I suggesting this??

You might be able to enjoy the effects of drinking a potion, while using the action spent to drink it 1d4 rounds earlier. Or you might just waste a potion.

Oh, oh! You can use this to get rid of cursed items! That's cool, right?

You could kill someone's tattoo familiar, if you managed to do this while they're asleep.

there's got to be other crazy uses for it, I guess.

Any love for the In Nomine archangels and demon princes?

(fighting against a servant of Asmodeus, the Prince of the Game, was obnoxious, because the villains were allowed to metagame and we weren't...)

A brownie familiar can have its own brownie familiar!

A beast-bonded witch can grant her feats to her familiar. A brownie has a high-enough charisma for Eldritch Heritage (arcane) and counts as a 7th? level spellcaster for Improved Familiar.

Unfortunately, RAW a beast-bonded witch can't give her feats to her familiar's familiar. ::sad face::

For help getting into position, I would look at Friendly Switch.

My favorite sneak attack rider is offensive defense, but that's personal preference.

huh. that's what I get for posting advice questions when I'm not in my right mind.

I'm going to go eat some soup

Say I'd like both Eldritch Heritage and Deific Obedience. As far as I can tell, the only way to take both of these with but a single Skill Focus feat is Eldritch Heritage (undead), because that bloodline keys off of Knoweldge (religion).

Which, you know, it's not bad as bloodlines go, but I think I'd rather have the 'heavenly fire' power from the Celestial bloodline than the 'grave touch' power from Undead, if I wanted to be an Evangelist of Sarenrae.

other dumb things you can do with Pummeling Style? 'if you hit' riders

Stunning Fist (combine with MoMS and Mantis Wisdom to negate the to-hit penalty from flurrying)
Dazing Strike
sneak attack riders (slow reactions, offensive defense)
touch spells that get blown if you miss, I guess

Clustered Shots is still a great way of landing that AMS arrow, I suppose

@Imbaticus man, a ranged weapon for just that 10%...well, it's not like I'm not spending money on stuff I'd need on chances smaller than that (looking at you, potion sponge of touch of the sea

@Jeraa when does acid splash get up to bow range?

this is basically: should I have a traditional missile weapon in my EDC?

the setup: I've got a rogue character with a greataxe. For ranged attacks I'm reliant on the daggers and alchemist's flasks in my bandoleer, as well as a spring-loaded wrist sheath with a dart in it.

So, if there's a bad guy outside my melee range, I free-action switch to holding the greataxe in one hand, move and draw or move and swift draw whatever, standard throw it, free action go back to holding my greataxe two-handed. (2 free actions, 3 if drawing the dart)

If I had, say, a shortbow, here's what happens: free action drop the greataxe on the ground, move and draw the bow, free action draw the arrow and load the bow, standard shoot it. If I want my greataxe back, I have to spend time either going back to where I dropped it (I do not justify tying a greataxe to a two-foot elastic), move action to pick it up, move action to put away the bow, etc. (3 free actions, lots more move actions involved in weapon switching)

In other words, if I'm primarily a melee fighter, can I stick with throwables?

UltimateEquipment wrote:
Smoke Arrow: This arrow is actually a specially-shaped smokestick that can be fired from a bow. It trails smoke as it flies, and creates a 5-foot cube of smoke where it strikes. It otherwise functions like a normal arrow in terms of damage, range, and so on.[/b]

Okay, this makes a smokestick effect in a single 5 foot cube. Presumably there's nothing about 'tagging' an enemy with one of these, so let's assume that the smoke does not follow a struck target.

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
Smokestick: This alchemically treated wooden stick instantly creates thick, opaque smoke when burned. The smoke fills a 10-foot cube (treat the effect as a fog cloud spell, except that a moderate or stronger wind dissipates the smoke in 1 round). The stick is consumed after 1 round, and the smoke dissipates naturally after 1 minute.

So, a smoke arrow creates a teeny tiny fog cloud, only it's made of smoke and not fog, and it only lasts 1 minute.

Core Rulebook wrote:
Fog Cloud: A bank of fog billows out from the point you designate. The fog obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can't use sight to locate the target).

So, if two creatures are in the fog, and they are standing right next to each other, they have a 20% miss chance. If they are separated by a square, then it's total concealment. A broader question, and I guess this is the scope of my question is: what if one creature is standing in the fog, but right on the edge, and another creature is outside the fog? Who sees what?

Here is a postulate

1. There is a rogue with the feats Rapid Shot and Shadow Strike. She is armed with a shortbow, and has a smoke arrow and a regular arrow.
2. There is a Medium-sized enemy creature 30 feet away from the rogue (so, within sneak attack range).
3. The rogue takes a full attack, shoots the smoke arrow at the creature, and hits it. Now there is a 5-foot cube of smoke in the enemy's square.
4. The rogue shoots the second arrow at the target.

What happens? Here's what I think, but I may well be wrong

1. The creature is within the bounds of the smoke, and the rogue is more than 5 feet away. Therefore, the rogue is totally concealed from the creature. A synonym for 'total concealment' is 'blind', so the creature is blind with regards to the rogue, and the rogue gets sneak attack.
2. The creature is within the bounds of the smoke, but is within 5 feet of the edge of it (as any creature would be). The creature is concealed, but not totally, from the rogue. If the rogue hits with her second arrow and beats the concealment check, then she gets to apply her sneak attack damage (thanks to Shadow Strike).

So, in other words, the vision of both the rogue and the enemy creature are impacted in different ways. If the enemy creature takes a 5-foot step backwards, so that the smoke is between the rogue and it, then they would both have total concealment against each other.

Does this make sense? Or does the total concealment ability of fog cloud only work if there are at least two squares of fog, and not just one?

I like the feat Charge Through for the movement goodness. Basically you can override one enemy (and use Trample if you've got a hoof), while your rider can use Spirited Charge on something else.

I don't think you really need Improved Natural Attack if you're riding around on a Huge griffon, for instance.

Generally you're not supposed to take more tan one trait in the same category, much less the same one twice.

In other words: this wizard's words aren't _that_ clever

There are exceptions to the rule that all hidden weapons can only be drawn as a standard action.

Items in a wrist sheath (dagger, dart, wand, or ammo) can be concealed and drawn as a move action.

Items in a spring-loaded wrist sheath can be concealed and drawn as a swift action (although that's still too slow for the surprise round unless you're a bandit rogue, apparently).

A sleeve holster (from the ACG) allows someone with a not-very-well-concealed-at-all coat pistol or hand crossbow to draw that weapon as a move or swift action. I think basically you need to cover the weapon with baggy clothing (which incidentally nets you an extra +2) in order for it to count as concealed.

All three of these items reside in the 'sleeve' or 'wrist' of the bearer. As does the tube arrow shooter.

The tube arrow shooter was originally published in Ultimate Combat, but that book does not illustrate what this item looks like.

Here are basic restatements of my original question, which I do not believe has been answered:

a) can a tube arrow shooter be hidden in a sleeve such that it is intended to be fired from that position?
b) what sort of action is it to 'release the fastener', and does that action actually fire the weapon?
c) can a tube arrow shooter be hidden somewhere else on the body, or perhaps in the hollow pommel of a hafted weapon?

I thought of this when designing my Pirate Detective build, but

MoMS 2 (taking Pummeling Style and Mantis Style, and getting Stunning Fist for free)
Brawler X

is really mighty, yeah?

The Pummeling Style lets all of your attacks pool into one, so that if any one of them hits, then that's a successful Stunning Fist hit, yes? Pummeling Charge adds movement to this combo, and Mantis Wisdom even makes it so that all of your attacks in the pummel get a +2 to hit (offsetting the TWF penalties).

So the unarmed damage from the MoMS and the brawler don't stack. Ah well.

a) does this combo work?
b) what else would make this combo shine?
c) does being blinded protect against a mage's mirror image? :)

I think this is the first time I've ever done a bump, so...bump?

::shrug:: I'm not entering the DPR Olympics here.

Is your average barbarian a pirate _and_ a detective?

arrr, the game is ahoy, me matey!

I dunno. My GM once made up this weapon called 'The Sword of Worth'. It didn't do anything, except

a) you had a -4 to wield it
b) you were encumbered wielding it
c) it wasn't cursed, but it would only work if you used it as your primary weapon

Well, one character decided to use it, and promptly realized that it was terrible and he was going to die horribly (or maybe he did die horribly, one of the two). Anyway, here's what the sword would have done:

Every other level, the penalty for using the sword went down by 1. Once you put the sword down and were done with it, for every level you used it, you had actually gained +1 Strength.


I think the sword's fine, actually. Just change '1/week' to '1/eon', and have the sword disappear after you use it. That'll do!

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So, someone on the PFS forum was flying the banhammer flag over the following feat

Advanced Class Guide wrote:

Merciless Butchery:Your talent for slaughter lets you dispatch helpless opponents before they can recover.

Prerequisite(s): Dastardly Finish, sneak attack +5d6, studied target class feature.

Benefit: As a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, you can attempt a coup de grace against a cowering, helpless, or stunned opponent that you have designated as your studied target.

So, you know, the idea goes move: study a target, standard: hit him with a Stunning Fist and land the stun, swift: kill him with a coup de grace. I chimed in saying that maybe it's not something you could make a PFS character out of easily, here's a sample build, etc etc.

Here's the best result I could come up with, assuming that rogue sneak attack and slayer sneak attack don't stack (if they do, then you can probably trade 3 levels of slayer for 1 level of rogue, and take Killing Flourish as an endcap).

Pirate Detective Mantis Punch
race: dual minded half-elf
traits: Elven Reflexes, Killer
stats: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 7

1 snakebite striker brawler
2-7 slayer (+1 Str)
8 inner sea pirate (+1 Str)
9 sleepless detective
10-11 master of many styles monk (here you switch your alignment from Neutral to Lawful Neutral)
12 snakebite striker brawler (+1 Wis)

1 Alertness, Improved Unarmed Strike (bonus brawler)
2 --
3 Dazzling Display, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike) (bonus slayer, from rogue talent weapon training)
4 --
5 Killing Flourish, Monastic Legacy (bonus slayer, from ranger combat: faithful combat: Irori) (you're never going to be great at demoralize, but at least it's there)
6 --
7 Multitalented Mastery, Spring Attack (bonus slayer, from ranger combat: faithful combat: Irori)
8 --
9 Dastardly Finish
10 Stunning Fist (bonus monk), Mantis Style (bonus monk)
11 Merciless Butchery, Mantis Wisdom (bonus monk)
12 Pummeling Style (bonus brawler), Two-Weapon Fighting (bonus brawler)

You get
* +9 BaB
* 1d8 unarmed strike (hmm, Monastic Legacy may not be worth it)
* +5d6 sneak attack
* 6 shots of Stunning Fist (7 if you wear a monk's robe)
* make a target fatigued by your stun (well, Mantis Wisdom has other benefits)
* Stunning Fist save DC of 20 (not bad)
* +2 studied target
* +Wis to AC (although you're better off with a brawling chain shirt)
* keep a light pick of the appropriate metal in your hand for really nasty coup de grace crits.
* Pummeling Style + Stunning Fist...that's worth a different build all on its own!

What do you think?

do the sneak attack dice you get from slayer and rogue stack?


a) a tube arrow shooter is made out of metal
b) a tube arrow shooter shoots bamboo shaft arrows
c) weirdly, a pack of bamboo shaft arrows comes in a different tube made out of a larger hunk of bamboo
d) Uh, bamboo is a kind of grass, but it's kinda like wood, I guess

Can you make a bamboo shaft arrow out of darkwood? The price for 10 would be...66gp.

e) a bamboo shaft arrow is a foot long, and deals damage in melee as an improvised spiked gauntlet

Is a darkwood bamboo shaft arrow equivalent to a wooden stake?

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I had an idea for a kapenia dancer (magus archetype)/shadowdancer build.

Hmm, maybe just go with kapenia dancer/bladebound for a magic talking scarf...

I saw someone had posted a sweet paladin/shadowdancer. No sneak attack there!

hmm, let's build him out

race: half-elf
1st slayer ???
2nd slayer ---
3rd slayer ???
4th snakebite striker brawler Improved Unarmed Strike, ---
5th rogue Multitalented Mastery
6th sleepless detective ---
7th inner sea pirate Dastardly Finish
8th master of many styles monk Stunning Fist, Mantis Style
9th master of many styles monk Mantis Wisdom, Merciless Butchery

at this point your BaB is +5, yuck, better finish with a full-BaB class

10 slayer -- (I checked if Stunning Fist is anywhere useful in the lists of combat styles, it isn't: 10th level for faithful combat (Irori))
11th slayer Killing Flourish (walk up to a guy, kill him, and spray bits on all his friends!)
12th rogue strong impression talent, I guess??

bottom line: there isn't a way to get Stunning Fist and a high-enough sneak attack at a low enough level for this to be a thing. ah well.

and no, not profession (oldest), sheesh!

If I'm in a big town, I can contract with a wizard to cast some spell. Great. Here's what I'd like to do.

1. I have a kerambit.

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
kerambit:This small, curved pull dagger has a metal loop at the base of its handle, allowing it to be secured with a pinky or worn on a string tied in the hair. While relatively small, the curved blade can create brutal wounds. Easily concealed (you gain a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a kerambit on your body), it is a favorite weapon of ninja and assassins.

2. I would like to conceal it in my hair (or in a wig that I then attach to my scalp with alchemical glue), like as a ring on the end of a braid that's secretly a slip knot. Tug the little ring on the end (standard action), ta~da, I'm armed. I've no idea if there's any sort of scenario where my standard 'covered in weapons' clothing would be disallowed or inappropriate, I just believe in preparing for any eventuality.

3. The thing is, I haven't trained in Sleight of Hand at all, so presumably I can't conceal any weapons if I tried. I'd probably just end up stabbing myself in the eye. That's no good.

a) Can I buy the services of an expert (presumably a 'hairdresser of Norgorber') to hide the kerambit for me?
b) I could spend a prestige point and get '+4 on any skill check'. Presumably the two guys who are aiding me on my Sleight of Hand check have Sleight of Hand themselves. Couldn't they just braid it into my wig for me (and they make the check, or take 10, rather than me)?

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
tube arrow shooter:This weapon consists of a small metal tube hidden within a sleeve; the tube holds a short, spring-loaded bamboo shaft. You gain a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a tube arrow shooter on your body. Releasing the fastener allows the spring to force the arrow out. Once a shaft is fired, the tube must be reloaded before it can be used again. Reloading a tube is a full-round action, or a standard action if the wielder has the Rapid Reload feat.

If I conceal a tube arrow shooter (that is, if I declare that the weapon is 'hidden'), do I have to draw it as a standard action? And then, holding this tube in my hand, fire it with another standard action?

Or, as the text implies, can I conceal it merely by draping the sleeve of some poor wizard's robe over the underside of my wrist, and thus I could fire it from that position?

why I ask

Ultimate Combat wrote:
Underhanded* (Ex): A rogue with this talent gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a weapon. Furthermore, if she makes a sneak attack during the surprise round using a concealed weapon that her opponent didn't know about, she does not have to roll sneak attack damage, and the sneak attack deals maximum damage. A rogue can only use the underhanded talent a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0).

In other words, if you can use a concealed weapon without having to, you know, actually draw the thing before you use it (and you have this furshlugginer talent and are suave enough to use that in conjunction and your target fails his Perception challenge), then you could actually deal max sneak damage.


So, uh...

a) It looks like I discovered a new rogue talent

Make Rogues Sad, Part XXVIII
Once per day, instead of dealing sneak attack damage, you can make a free sunder attempt against an opponent's held weapon. If this manuever succeeds, you may add 1 point of damage per die of sneak attack dice you would otherwise have rolled had you decided to stab your opponent in the kidney. If this manuever fails, you become prone, and, oh, covered in grease.

RPG Superstar, here I come!

b) you can sneak attack swarms of any size if you're wearing a swarmbane clasp. Go for the (thousands of) eyes, Boo!

DethBySquirl wrote:

A one level dip in Swashbuckler would let you Finesse both of them, though dual wielding isn't the best for a pure Swashbuckler.

Wazikashi is a decent offhand, since it's basically a short sword with a higher crit range.

Oh, I see. Use Slashing Grace to make sawtooth sabres count as piercing, and then Swashbuckler Finesse lets you use Weapon Finesse with them.

That other way to Weapon Finesse sawtooth sabres, man, I could cut tomatoes with the rules sliced like that (or something).

wakizashi is good, yeah.

While it's not defensive, a sica woulld be good for my concept (+1 to hit dudes with's situational, but I'll still take it).

The reason I'm going with TWF with a dueling sword in the main hand is for Improved Two-Weapon Feint and Dueling Cloak Adept: basically, a dueling sword is the best weapon to feint with. If there was such a thing as a 'double dueling sword' I'd use that. But, there isn't.

Here's the setup

a) a rogue two-weapon-wielding an aldori dueling sword and a swordbreaker dagger steps up to a bad guy with a sword.
b) the rogue knows what she's doing, and executes a Two-Weapon Feint on the bad guy using the dueling sword (and a cloak). The bad guy is now going to take a sneak attack from the swordbreaker dagger
c) the rogue tries to sunder the bad guy's sword

1. The bad guy is denied his Dex to AC. Can he take an AoO if the rogue does not have Improved Sunder?
2. The rogue can deal sneak attack damage to the bad guy. Can she also deal sneak attack damage to his sword as well?

So, I have this idea in my head of a tengu dual-wielding an aldori dueling sword and a sawtooth sabre...that seems neat, but the sabre can't benefit from Weapon Finesse, which I would kinda want, what with a big Dex investment to pull off TWF!

Are there any weapons that give you a bonus for wielding it in the off-hand, or if you happen to be using Combat Expertise or fighting defensively or what have you? A light weapon would be best, and something esoteric that happens to be sword-like or dagger-like would be even better.

Some kind of parrying dagger or main gauche?

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Sword cane pistol does B and P.

Not a valid option for Blackblade.

Now, a Dagger pistol, may, or may not.

Ultimate Magic wrote:
A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane.

I did check, you know!

You know, I also checked, and it looks like you can combine bladebound with myrmidarch, and shoot shocking grasps at bad guys with your gunblade.


hmm, so, okay, an axe musket black blade is weird, because it's either sometimes a two-handed firearm and a one-handed melee weapon.

how about a sword cane pistol black blade? A sword cane can be a black blade no problem, and it's always a one-handed weapon. seems fine to me: the black blade is intelligent and gets enchanted, etc, and the gun part isn't and doesn't (unless you pour money into it)

is there an archetype or power that lets you put spell storing on bullets?

Okay, here's a human rogue who tries to abuse Shatter Defenses, all while being ~~scary~~

race: human
traits: Shoanti Tattoo, Veteran of Battle
stats: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8
class thug/scout rogue
human bonus: Bludgeoner
1st: Enforcer
rogue 2: minor magic (acid splash)
3rd Sap Adept
rogue 4: major magic (vanish)
5th: Sap Master
rogue 6: weapon training (earthbreaker)
7th Intimidating Prowess
rogue 8: weapon trick (Dazzling Display)
9th: Shatter Defenses
rogue 10: hunter's surprise (again!)
11th: ??I dunno, Improved Critical (earthbreaker)??
rogue 12: skill mastery (probably Acrobatics, Intimidate, and two others)

If you don't beat someone to death doing nonlethal damage using an earthbreaker, then you either shake them for a whole combat, or inflict the frightened condition a ton of times, or just pull of Shatter Defenses a whole lot.

Hmm, I should make a 'ohako's guide to the melee rogue' or some such. That'll be fun.

it lets you dodge the damage from that high-level thundercaller who's throwing around 3 sound bursts a round...

Zathyr wrote:
ohako wrote:


1st Weapon Finesse
2nd combat trick (Two-Weapon Fighting)
3rd Combat Expertise
4th combat trick (Two-Weapon Feint)
A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once. You could, however, grab the Finesse Rogue talent for weapon finesse. Makes level 1 rougher, but it's only level 1.
Advanced Player's Guide wrote:


A paragon of mobile swordplay, the swashbuckler is a rogue who focuses almost exclusively on honing her skill at arms and perfecting daring acrobatic moves and elaborate flourishes that border on performance.

Martial Training (Ex): At 1st level, the swashbuckler may select one martial weapon to add to her list of weapon proficiencies. In addition, she may take the combat trick rogue talent up to two times. This ability replaces trapfinding.

Daring (Ex): At 3rd level, a swashbuckler gains a +1 morale bonus on Acrobatics checks and saving throws against fear. This bonus increases by +1 for every 3 levels beyond 3rd. This ability replaces trap sense.[/b]


Actually, a couple of edits to that build

a) go half-elf. then your traits can be Dueling Cloak Adept and Elven Reflexes (and you don't really need Improved Initiative, which you're not going to ge anyway)
b) tactics-wise, take the scout archetype as well. Then when you move (and sneak attack), you use Combat Expertise, and when you don't move (and sneak attack via a feint), you use Two-Weapon Fighting (you'll still get a +1 to AC if your feint goes off)

Now I have to go gin up that Shatter Defenses build using the trait that gets you proficiency with an earthbreaker. hmm....

Hmm, okay, so I have my strength rogue concept. Let's see about building this Dex rogue concept, yeah? A two-weapon Dex fighter using a cloak, an aldori dueling sword, and a, oh, I don't know, a dagger in the off-hand. Let's make her a swashbuckler rogue, for the bonus martial weapon and taking extra combat tricks for stuff

race: human or half-elf
traits: dueling cloak adept, inspired (helps with feinting Bluff)
bonus feat: exotic weapon proficiency (aldori dueling sword)
bonus martial weapon: tube arrow shooter
1st Weapon Finesse
2nd combat trick (Two-Weapon Fighting)
3rd Combat Expertise
4th combat trick (Two-Weapon Feint)
5th Gang Up
6th weapon training (Aldori dueling sword)
7th Slashing Grace (Aldori dueling sword)
8th underhanded (deal maximum sneak damage when sneak attacking using the tube arrow shooter)
9th Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10th hunter's surprise (surprise! you're screwed...)
11th Improved Two-Weapon Feint
12th opportunist? offensive defense?

the basic routine is that you feint with the sword, then sneak attack like crazy with your other 3 attacks, plus you've got Gang Up and underhanded for more nasty tricks. this is pretty nice, I must say, although the feat list is super-tight. Let's see about stats

Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 12

That's not bad. Get some light armor on that, maybe boost Cha with a headband to be underhanded twice a day. Plus a human gets 10 skills a level is nice. Get your Dex to attacks, AC, damage, Initiative, etc.

How about a tube arrow shooter?

Ultimate Equipment wrote:
tube arrow shooter:This weapon consists of a small metal tube hidden within a sleeve; the tube holds a short, spring-loaded bamboo shaft. You gain a +2 bonus on Sleight of Hand checks made to conceal a tube arrow shooter on your body. Releasing the fastener allows the spring to force the arrow out. Once a shaft is fired, the tube must be reloaded before it can be used again. Reloading a tube is a full-round action, or a standard action if the wielder has the Rapid Reload feat.

a) the weapon is naturally concealed (clearly a rogue has one arm with a cold iron spiked gauntlet lashed to it, and the other has a long sleeve tied to your shoulder)

b) you can fire it as a regular attack without having to draw it
c) as a downside, this doesn't work so good for a knife master, and you still need a high Cha to get this to work (nor can you spend ki or panache or anything else to recharge your uses).

I'd take this and shoot ghosts in the eye with it, but my rogue has a Cha of 8, and you need at least a 12.

the build I'm using is actually a multi-class slayer/scout rogue.

a) I like what the slayer does, but
b) I want more sneak attack

feats to start

1 Improved Initiative
3 Shadow Strike
5 Surprise Follow-Through (pulling Power Attack and Cleave through my first rogue talent and slayer talent)
7 ???
9 ???
11 ???

I'm not exactly looking for build advice in terms of class levels, or even for this specific build. I'm looking for feats that would help any melee rogue do their job better.

Zaythr, Gang Up is the kind of thing I'm looking for. Nice find! Although I can't use it for my specific build (going the Power Attack route, with an Int of 8), it's still something that's up the right alley. That +1 flanking trait is nice too.

...probably one of the feats I'm going to end up taking is Iron Will...

I'm looking for feats that help with positioning, help with flanking, help enable more and better chances for sneak attack, help with putting a rogue in the right place at the right time.

Some suggestions already

Improved Initiative
Shadow Strike
Improved Feint
Step Up (I don't like the chain because Following Step is so weird)
Nimble Moves
Friendly Switch - This one is from Seekers of Secrets, and it lets you 5-foot step into an ally's square (as long as the ally switches places with you). Perfect for tight fighting conditions.

What others would you suggest?

I've had a build kicking around for a loooong time for a Strength-based 2-handed rogue. Basically, a rebuttal of the D&D 4th Edition rogue.

race: half-orc (my favorite)
class: scout rogue 12

1st Improved Initiative
3rd Cleave
5th Surprise Follow-Through
7th Furious Focus
9th Vital Strike
11th All-Consuming Swing (these last two are new, but I like them for what they do)

rogue talents
2nd combat trick (Power Attack)
4th offensive defense
6th iron guts
8th weapon training (greataxe)
10th hunter's surprise
12th opportunist

So, a good (for a certain value of good) melee strength rogue, who can sneak attack with a greataxe while moving, charging, or just plain saying so.

Now that the slayer is out there, it's clearly something to make doing rogue-y combat things better. You get better attacks, better hit points, better saves...and less sneak attack.

Color me weird, but I like sneak attack. I like the idea of being in the right place or doing the right kinds of things, and getting a massive damage payoff in melee.

So, while I really like the gifts the slayer gets, I kinda want more rogue stuff added to that mix. Here's a variant of my dearly beloved axe murderer that goes slayer/rogue straight down the middle

1 slayer Improved Initiative
2 rogue sneak attack +1d6
3 slayer ranger combat style (two-handed: Power Attack), Shadow Strike
4 rogue combat trick (Cleave)
5 slayer sneak attack +2d6, Surprise Follow-Through
6 rogue sneak attack +3d6
7 slayer Vital Strike, unknown slayer trick???
8 rogue offensive defense
9 slayer All-Consuming Swing
10 rogue sneak attack +4d6
11 slayer sneak attack +5d6, ranger combat style (Furious Focus), unknown feat???
12 rogue unknown rogue talent???

I get better saves, more BaB, more weapon proficiencies (hooray tube arrow shooter!), the feat Shadow Strike made it in early (always a plus), and I give up some skill points, +1d6 sneak attack, the scout's grab-bag of extra sneak attack powers, and hunter's surprise. not a bad trade by any means.

Some questions

a) I haven't slotted in a slayer talent at 7th, a feat at 11th, and a rogue talent at 12th. Any suggestions?
b) I don't have to take my ucky class skill traits to get Heal and Survival anymore. What are some good traits for this build? (except Reactionary, thanks)
c) another option, I guess, is to forgo tranfinding entirely and go with the skulking slayer rogue archetype. There's a smorgasbord of powers here, but the ones I care about are underhanded manuevers and bold charge (combine with scout). So, if I'm flanking already, what does a dirty trick get me that plain old sneak attack damage doesn't? It's possible also to take the faithful combat (Besmara) combat style and get Improved Dirty Trick without needing Combat Expertise first. Is this any good in a straight multiclass?

oh, here's another question: can you apply a dose of holy weapon balm to a flask of holy water?

So, holy weapon balm can be applied (as a standard action) to 10 pieces of ammunition. The balm lasts for 1 minute. Any undead or evil outsider takes an extra 2d4 (possibly an extra 1d4 on top of that) if it gets hit.

So, it's sort of like holy water that you can grease your weapons with. Okay...holy water you can use once (5 times in theory with a battle aspergillum), and you deal 2d4 damage. A stack of arrows that you balm up can be used by other party members and you get that +2d4 damage chance 10 times.

My question: really?

Oh! Here's a real rules question. This stuff makes nonmagical arrows act as magic vs. incorporeal undead, but it also makes magical arrows act as ghost touch arrows. If you balm up nonmagical arrows, and fire them with a magical bow, do they gain ghost touch?

Pupsocket wrote:

what does this mean?

Pupsocket wrote:
The archetype specifically requires you to be able to sneak attack the target in the first place. Swarms are immune to sneak attack, as are creatures with the incorporeal subtype (if you're not using a ghost touch weapon).

1. If the chemist wears a swarmbane clasp, and is somehow invisible, then

1a. can he sneak attack a swarm with an alchemist's fire?
1b. Does the swarm's vulnerability multiply the sneak attack damage?

2. If the chemist melts a ghost salt weapon blanch over a holy water (it counts as a weapon), can he then
2a. throw the holy water at the wraith and have it hit?
2b. sneak attack with it?

So, the underground chemist is a rogue archetype (WAT?) from the ACG, and I have a few questions about the archetype, and I suspect that most of the 'PFS-strict' answers here are 'no'. But, I'll ask anyway...

The underground chemist gets three interesting powers, and while I would quote the rules, they're not anywhere online yet-ish, so I'll summarize.

At level 2, instead of evasion, the chemist can draw alchemical items like they were weapons (so you can use Quick Draw, draw while moving, etc). Also they get to add their Int modifier to splash damage.

At level 4, instead of a rogue talent, they can sneak attack with a splash weapon, but only once per round.


1. Can an underground chemist draw any sort of bottle with Quick Draw, or just an alchemical item? Like, a potion of cure light wounds maybe?
1a. What if there was an zombie nearby, and I was thinking of maybe throwing a cure potion at it, could I Quick Draw it?
1b. What if I pour out the water in a flask of holy water (which is a thing you can do), fill the empty flask with a cure potion, could I Quick Draw that?

2. So, with Quick Draw, I can throw as many alchemist's fires as I have iterative attacks in a round. Fine. What about alchemical weapons that you don't throw, such as bottled lightning? Can I draw and use two of those in a full attack?

3. Can I sneak attack any creature with a splash weapon? Like,
3a. a swarm with an alchemist's fire,
3b. or a fire elemental with a liquid ice,
3c. or a wraith with a holy water?

4. Is there any way to use a non-melee alchemical weapon at mêlée range without provoking an AoO? Like, could I glue an alchemist's fire onto the end of a longspear and flank someone with that?

5. What about magic items that mimic splash weapons, such as a necklace of fireballs or a successfully used haunt siphon? Can I draw those quickly and/or sneak attack with them?

6. Is there any way of setting the timer on a fuse grenade? Or perhaps knowing what the timer is, so I can time my throw just right? I just love the thought of sneak attacking someone with a grenade...

EDIT: I remembered it as 'unlicensed chemist'. It's really 'underground chemist'. This explains why my search-fu was poor

huh. is this for RotRL? well, it doesn't have to be, I guess.

I thought about putting a two-horse carriage into a run with chase cards, but I couldn't think of a way to accurately model a skill challenge undertaken by two creatures tied together.

Here's what I did recently in RotRL

spoilers, I guess:

1. The PCs have parked their horses-and-carriage in the ruins of the servants quarters.
2. One of the PCs goes outside to find the horses surrounded by dozens of evil ravens. At that moment, the horses bolt
(at this point, I ditched the carriage and made the game one of rescuing horses from the carrionstorms)
3. I used the chase cards from packs 1 and 2 to make a somewhat convincing chase where the PCs could either run after the horses or fight/get pecked by carrionstorms (who could move freely). Trouble was I randomized the cards, and a really difficult one was at the top, so the PCs just fought birds mostly. Also carrionstorms suck.

So, you could have a chase where the PCs are trying to rescue something or someone while also engaging in a running fight with an enemy who has superior mobility. How's that?

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