2. Capitol: anywhere but at Stag Lord's Fort... Nah, seriously: I'd like to introduce C. the area south-east of the river crossing and D. the area east of the Candlemere lake.
Spoiler:
I don't care for the metagame argument of knowing there's no real disadvantage to the fort (and even if you'd like to include it, I'd want to include "it's boring because everyone takes it" as a counter-argument).
I think the hill and ruin aren't that much of a benefit, as they're both rather small (and even if you valued the benefit of a slightly higher visual range, that benefit is nullified by the close forest in the west and south-west), and apart from that, the strategic position isn't really thaaaat great anyway. True, there are two rivers, but only one of them really connects us to anywhere (apart from its source in the forest).
Compared to the fort, both areas C and D are better.
They're directly in the fertile farmlands.
They got rivers and lakeshores almost all around them (like 300 degrees, which means even more fishery/transportation options, plus the rivers are better, as I'll explain below).
They actually got better visual range and are easier to defend, since there's no forest that could block the view and allow enemies to sneak up (and they still got rivers/lakes as natural obstacles).
And of course they got no bad vibes. ;)
C got Shrike river (like the fort), plus the what's-its-name river that feeds the Tuskwater lake from the east, stemming from a huge reservoir near the mountains (which means better fresh water supply compared to the Skunk River).
Once we've secured that area, we can expand south of that river and still have another one as a new border.
D is situated between the what's-its-name (see above) and the border river, which leads into the River Kingdoms, possibly giving us great opportunity for trade (we don't have to like the people to trade with them, do we?).
And since it's on the Candlemere shore, we could use the island in the middle of it (watchtower? alchemist's lab with natural safety zone? ^^).
It's kinda similar to C, we'd just approach the area from the other side - it might seem more dangerous because it's closer to the border, but in the long run, it's actually much easier to defend our kingdom from there than with all the other options, because we basically only have to build up defenses once (and basically only on one or two sides).
Once we've secured and fortified the border, we can safely, freely and easily expand north, - for all other options, all the areas south of the city are basically in the danger zone.
TL;DR: I vote for area D. (But I could live with C if I had to.)
3. Neutral good.
Spoiler:
Yes, Mornaura herself is chaotic good, but NG is the middle ground for our party - and we got to have at least some laws, don't we?)
4. I want Norn to be our Ruler.
Spoiler:
I'd like to discuss that in-character, if possible. But we can also discuss it here if noone's interested in doing it IC.
5. I want to be active. RL is interfering with me quite a bit at the moment, but it'll surely get better soon.
6. Hmm... Isn't the area called Kamelands? How about Kamelot then? :P
More serious: Minhiriath ("between the rivers")? Glanntirith ("border guard")?
(I'll play around with Sindarin and try to come up with some more names with a nice meaning... Maybe something like Shieldwall of the Kingdom cause in case we're founding at D it could basically become that. Our strongpoint which defends the whole north.)
"Mhm. As much I appreciate that Erastil keeps Norn's and the poor magical beast's remains safe, I must admit I'm glad we're leaving this place... I'm feeling a bit uneasy under his vigilant gaze. Anyway, let's go find out what Kresten has achieved for us. I hope we get our friend back in a few days."
As soon as Mornaura takes damage for the first time, she'll activate her mage armor fetish. Is +3 AC (17 total) enough to prevent at least some of the damage?
"Ouch... Annoying thorns. Ionnia, would you mind healing me?"
Nah. I'd just like to note that, apart from possible metagaming on your side, we don't have a way of knowing wether the Fangberries will be in the hex next to the river crossing, or somewhere in the two rows of unexplored hexes on our southern border. ^^ So we don't know if it makes sense to travel back there.
Anyway. Whichever route the majority chooses, I'll tag along.
Well, it's not my fault you gave your amulet of natural armor to your cat, right? ^^
But since the bracers can't be combined neither with my armored kilt, nor with mage armor, you can have them if you want. :)
Trying not to care about her wet clothes, Mornaura concentrates on the bracers for a while.
Spellcraft:1d20 + 12 ⇒ (7) + 12 = 19
"Huh, seems like we got two pretty bracers of armor here. Too bad their magic can't be combined with our mage armor spells, but at least they are permanently active. Mind if I keep them?"
---
"Well, I think we're done here. Though, now that the crossing isn't blocked by a curse anymore, we might as well explore the area south of the river."
After a heavy sigh, Mornaura declares with a slight grumble in her voice, "Spirits... His name is - was Davik Nettle. Let us make sure his determination to resist the bandits beyond death will not be forgotten."
Following Dris into the hut, she adds, "Let's see if we can use any of his belongings to secure the peace of these lands, either directly or by trading them for something helpful. I guess he would've liked that, don't you all agree? Maybe we can build a small shrine here for him later."
If it's dark in there, she casts Light on her furry bracers before searching. Perception:1d20 + 10 ⇒ (10) + 10 = 20 For good measure, she takes another look with Detect Magic.
@all: sorry folks, RL is requiring lots of my time and attention atm. I'll return to more frequent posting once things have settled back down.
On topic: Well, obviously Davik Nettle (the ghoul) is waiting for us at Nettle's Crossing... ;) And since he wanted to have the body flow past him and the rivers are flowing towards the lake, we have to ride all the way up. :/ So, are we still going back to Jhod from there, then head for Oleg's? Or are we taking the short route via Bokken's?
"Shut up, ghoul, we're on the way to bringing you peace already," the witch mumbles to the wind.
I think if Norn isn't granted a resurrection or a raise dead, reincarnation is always fun....as long as you don't get whammied with an animal or something too weird.
I think we should maybe take the Stag Lords fort as our base of operations? and if we can't raise Norn...should we immortalize him in stone some where?
Well, the worst that can happen to him is becoming a goblin... :D
Regarding the fort, well... I don't want to base a future kingdom on this ruined bandit fort.
Ionnia, I know you didn't really say that, so please take no offense.
But I guess once we start using it as an operation base, and probably start dumping resources into it, someone might want to keep using it as our foundation stone.
And as I've thought about this for quite a while, I'd like to voice my opinion before we're too deep down the rabbit hole.
Here are my reasons why I don't want to use the fort:
1.) It's a ruin that can collapse anytime.
I don't know the amount of work and money it might take us to even overhaul it, but I'd say we're better off investing in a Lyre of Building and building a real stronghold.
2.) Even if it were in good shape, it still wouldn't be a great fort anyway - it's small, badly layouted, and in a strategically suboptimal place.
3.) It's a bandit fort, that has been the source of grief for these lands for quite a while, feeding on blood and gold of the people like a parasite. If that doesn't scream "bad karma", what else does?
4.) Oh, right, this reason does, too: it's sitting right on top of a mass grave with gods-may-know-how-many undead in it, who're just waiting for someone to step on the wrong stone or plow their field too deep, not to mention excavation work for cellars and fundaments.
5.) If you want to have a metagame reason in addition: I've tried hard not to spoiler myself too much in the forums, but if there's one thing that I feel like you hear from almost every Kingmaker group, it's that they took the fort as a basis for their city and kingdom - which imo makes it a really really boring choice.
So honestly, I'd rather burn and smash the place down and place a memorial on top of it, labeled "bad people will get crushed like this place". ;)
And then we search us a nice spot to give our future kingdom a fresh, clean start, without any inherited liabilities.
"Well, Kresten asked us to meet him at Oleg's. Since it'll take him a while to travel to Restov and back, and your spell grants us all the time we want, we don't need to rush there. I guess we can scout the surrounding area for remaining bandits and, what was it, fangberries, then visit Jhod and Bokken on the way north. I'd like to craft us a means of Reincarnation, just in case."
Well, it's not like we had trouble affording Raise Dead.
Hell, with all that loot, we could even buy a Resurrection for Norn, and Mornaura would gladly do that.
If all other options fail, Reincarnate via crafting a Salve of the Second Chance costs, for reasons unknown to me, mere 800 gp.
Mornaura would like the ring of protection or the amulet of natural armor.
I'd say that the mass of small coins, jewelry and trade goods can be used to compensate Restov for the material component cost of Raise Dead, if needed - as the required diamond is worth 5,000 gp and the promised 6 masterwork weapons only 1800ish gp.
The trade goods (and misc adventuring gear) might also come in handy later - when we want to develop our mine.
Could we please resolve things chronologically next time? Or don't you all think that it' getting a bit chaotic right now? ;)
When Drispeera talks about ways of dealing with the bandits, Mornaura nods to her. "I haven't liked the idea of having to decide the fate of those... poor, stranded people, misled by the promises of the Stag Lord. But now that he's gone, so is the easy excuse. I agree on telling every bandit what happened here and giving them the choice between redemption through work and..." she needs to breathe deeply before she's able to continue, "and a quick death."
---
The next day, the witch listens to Akiros' speech.
"You know... I guess both Kresten and Oleg would like to have someone who can help them monitor the repentants. As you know most of them, you can surely be of great help, leading yourself and them to a better life."
When Mornaura sees Kaeso stand shaking after he has just executed the Stag Lord, she gets up, walks over to him with a few slow steps, and puts her hand on his shoulder.
"'tis alright. You know you got every right to do it... This world is a better place without him, and , you're right about the river," the witch says softly and shows him a crooked smile.
Well, I think we don't necessarily need that much of a skill monkey.
We got the knowledges, spellcraft, perception, survival/tracking, heal, sense motive, handle animal and charisma-stuff pretty well covered already, and we got spells to help out with stealth.
My recommendation would be to search for someone who can disable traps - the rest can be left up to the new applicant.
Thanks for mentioning Ionnia's Gentle Repose in-character. :) The spell doesn't explicitly mention Reincarnate, but it works for that too, doesn't it?
"Ah, good, Gentle Repose does make things easier for us, assuming Restov can be convinced to send a scroll. Well, I guess getting a chance to continue your life in another body is better than not getting a chance. We can keep that in mind as a last resort."
Mornaura's face lights up as she regains confidence. Bowing down to Norn, she says, "Hang on, my friend, we will save you."
The operation Saving Private Ryan, er, Saving Paladin Norn will succeed!
"I feel that Norn is far from ready to leave this world behind," the witch states with strange certainty, and starts to look at her companions one after another while she goes on.
"Of course, Raise Dead would be a better option... But, my friends, you may not know that time is of utmost importance in such matters of life and death. We only have a few days before Norn's soul will be out of reach for the magical powers we can hope to get hands on. I don't know if a scroll from Restov can reach us in time.
We don't know if the spring at the temple is of any help at all, it's far off from Restov and not that easy to reach, so we shouldn't head there. Besides, since a god will not be bound by the limits of mortal magic, we can still go there if all other means fail.
So, again, I suggest we head to Bokken's hut as fast as possible. It's much closer to Restov, we can ride there with Kresten, and I'm sure I can create a fetish to Reincarnate Norn with Bokken's supplies."
Turning to Kresten, she says "Kresten, if you are able to bring us a scroll of Raise Dead or an even more potent spell in time, that's great and we owe you - and I for one would be more than willing to trade as much as necessary of the belongings of the late Stag Lord in exchange. But if it doesn't work out..." and she turns back to her companions once more, "we should take the option that might not be perfect, but reliable, instead of hoping for the goodwill of a god."
When the battle ended, Mornaura climbed down from the tower, her face a pale granite mask that shows fierce determination - only at a closer inspection her eyes betray her grief.
Upon passing by Drispeera who was talking to her companion, the witch mumbled something - something along the lines of "...good boy? Sure, starting an unnecessary fight that led to a dead companion qualifies as good..." - and then a second time when she passed Kaeso - this time it sounded like "I would torture him to death myself if only I knew Norn wouldn't like it...". But apart from that, she remained quiet. She cowered next to Norn, stroking his hair and ignoring what happens around her.
---
Taking 10 on Spellcraft and Knowledge (geography) (and maybe (arcane) and (nature), if necessary) in the mean time...
---
When Akiros presents the old druid, Mornaura looks up for the first time again - besides breathing and apathetic stroking and maybe some words mumbled to herself, it's actually the first visible motion for the whole time.
She focuses on the old man, but remains quiet until Kresten has finished. With a voice that sounds like it originates in a place far away from the late Stag Lord's fort, she says:
"I know how to... bring Norn back. Old man, is it within your power to Reincarnate our fallen companion? If yes, do it. Maybe we can spare you some grief in return. If not, I have another plan."
Turning to her companions, she continues:
"If the druid is of no help, we have to get Norn to Bokken's hut as soon as we can. I'm sure that he has the magical materials that I need to create a fetish which allows me to Reincarnate Norn. I will not let him down."
From her covered position in the tower, Mornaura glares down at the Stag Lord, forming her anger and sadness into an almost palpable stream of magical energy.
"Make him suffer, guys," she growls with a voice that's not quite her own.
Using her Evil Eye hex to reduce his AC by 2 for 8 rounds, DC 16 will save to reduce the duration to 1 round.
Crap, I forgot the "cannot use sight to locate" part of concealment. Alright, so Mornaura will do the following:
Mornaura can't see clearly what happens below, but catching a glimpse of the tall figure stalking through the mist and hearing the horrible sound of an arrow penetrating armor and flesh - yet again - is enough to know that something bad happened, even before the Stag Lord's taunt.
"Oh dear Spirits, why do you forsake us?", she moans, then shakes her head for a moment, desperately trying to ignore the horrible feelings clenching her intestines. She starts concentrating on the otherworldy powers flowing through her body, reaches out for the Stag Lord's mind, but can't make him out in the fog. Gritting her teeth, she hustles back into the cover of the gate tower, then dismisses her Obscuring Mist spell.
PS: So... The Stag Lord got IUS (couldn't have taken an AoO otherwise) and moves through a) Bingo's threatened area without provoking or b) a stone wall? I hate that guy. :P
Oh dear... Didn't know the Stag Lord got Improved Unarmed Strike. :/
Hmm, now that Dris mentioned Bingo... Shouldn't the Stag Lord provoke an AoO from Bingo on the way to his shooting position? IMO, on the ground floor map, the square below Norn is clearly blocked by the stone wall. So, between that wall and the wooden one, the Stag Lord could only move through the square above the "B" of the Owlbear (the square in which Norn stood in map 13/14). And moving from that square to his position in map 17 should provoke from Bingo, right?
Anyway, assuming the Stag Lord is still alive one way or another...
Mornaura can't see clearly what happens below, but catching a glimpse of the tall figure stalking through the mist and hearing the horrible sound of an arrow penetrating armor and flesh - yet again - is enough to know that something bad happened, even before the Stag Lord's taunt.
"Oh dear Spirits, why do you forsake us?", she moans, then shakes her head for a moment, desperately trying to ignore the horrible feelings clenching her intestines. She concentrates on the otherworldy powers flowing through her body, forming and focusing them until she sends them out, reaching for the Stag Lord's mind. "You better sleep now so that we can end this quickly - otherwise I'll make sure you are wide awake while you die slowly..."
Okay, it's really more like: Please fail your save against the Slumber hex - otherwise this battle will become even more messy. ;)
Urgh, that's brutal... While I really really dislike metagaming, let me make an exception for Norn once. Kaeso, if you don't mind me giving you
advice:
you're the only one who can save Norn - by making that attack not happen. For example, you could try tripping him (can't use a bow when you're prone) or sundering the bow.
Hustling out of the tower and half way over the bridge, Mornaura almost falls off when she looks down and realizes with horror that Kaeso is more than seriously injured.
"Kaeso! Oh Spirits, why? We can't lose him! Ionnia, don't let go of him, I'll cover you. And someone needs to take care of the former gate guard soon - his slumber doesn't last for long."
She casts Obscuring Mist, enshrouding the whole entrance area.
Growling disapprovingly, Mornaura spins around, leans out of the tower entrance and casts Web on the second floor. She tries to include all three bandits in the target area, anchoring the Web on the walls of the ruin and the rugged edges of the broken floor.
After that, she pulls the torch out of the holder and checks on Kaeso.
DC 17 - do they even get to make one, prone and sleeping? ^^
Oh Spirits of these lands, please help us, as I don't want this become a carnage...
"Be ready to catch him," the witch whispers down to Ionnia and Norn.
She waits until Jeb has come out under the tower, then leans over the parapet just far enough to get a good look at him. She prepares to use her slumber hex on Jeb after he has reached and addressed her companions, when it's their turn to answer him, so that the other bandits don't wonder why he's silent.
Mornaura sneaks into the tower and crouches below the parapet (and the torch), so that she can't be seen from the guards outside.
She crawls into the corner closest to Kaeso, peers over the railing and whispers: "Pst, Kaeso. Tower clear. Maybe you can lure the bandit away from the gate?"
Alright, let's see... Dris is messaging Bingo, Kaeso and Norn, right?
Can we assume that Norn and/or Kaeso tell Ionnia what's up (and that Mornaura heard that)?
I mean, Mornaura watches the fort anyway, but I think we should make sure Ionnia isn't the only one who got no clue about what's happening inside.
The witch leans over the wall and tries to get the attention of her companions without alerting any of the bandits.
"Psst! Dris is fine for now - no need to assault yet. I'll try to clear the tower for you," she whispers down.
Now that the bandits have returned to their posts and seemingly calmed down again, Mornaura crawls towards the gate tower and prepares to use her Slumber hex if she happens to find a bandit inside.
Stealth:1d20 + 2 ⇒ (20) + 2 = 22
If we were acting in combat initative now, I'd say move action to crawl, standard action readying the hex (or using it once there's a target), and repeating that until Mornaura is inside the tower, alone or with a (hopefully) knocked out bandit. ^^
PS: I've rephrased the part of my former post that has been halted to watch Dris.
Crouched down on the walltop, Mornaura observes what's happening below.
Waving down to her companions outside of the ruin, she tries to signal them that they can stay calm.
She waits for the bandits to return to their posts and calm down again, then starts crawling towards the gate tower and prepares to use her Slumber hex if she happens to find a bandit inside.
If we were acting in combat initative now, I'd say move action to crawl, standard action readying the hex, and repeating that until Mornaura is inside the tower, alone or with a (hopefully) knocked out bandit. ^^
Okay. I meant the surface of the top of the wall (the coping). Does the wall seem structurally intact, so that Mornaura could walk/balance on top of it somewhat easily (by taking 10, hopefully), or is it missing chunks and crumbling to pieces when you try to step on it?
"Well... I don't see a safe, quiet way in from up here. There must be a ladder or stairs in the building somewhere..." the witch whispers down to the huddle.
"So you're going to head down the stairs and around the building? Maybe I can cover you from up here."
@Nel: How thick is the wall Mornaura is lying on? On the map, it looks like almost 5 ft...?
What's the surface like? Does it look like Mornaura could walk on it without too much risk of falling or making noise?
Oh well, if it helps you stop feeling offended by everything I write because you don't like the tone you're reading into it, I'll try to phrase any further remarks regarding something you write as questions to Nel.
In the mean time, could you please try to do some of the following things?
1.) Stop forgetting that English is a foreign language for me - I've said multiple times that I don't mean to sound offensive, and that you're free to ask if something is unclear.
2.) Read my entire post instead of picking parts out of it.
My "wall of words earlier had a presumptive and disrespectful tone"? See the PS of the post you're referring to: "I don't want to offend anyone or start a discussion. [...]" I've merely been posting my grasp of the situation, and the tactical considerations that seemed to result from that. I didn't say anything like "don't do that" or even "it's totally stupid to do that".
3.) Stop feeling offended by everything I write because you don't like the tone you're reading into it.
---
Drispeera D'Lith wrote:
Really Mornie? Snarking at Ionnia all night for making noise, and then yelling across the entire fort, instead of waiting for Norn or Kaeso to tell you where we are? Yeesh. Usually you're smarter than that.
Seriously, Dris?
Complaining about my posts supposedly lacking respect and courtesy, two minutes after you post that? oO
I posted the explicitly whispered question when it seemed like Dris wanted to levitate (I'm going to quote myself here) "over the wall and down towards the sleeping bandits" more or less directly in front of Mornaura. Of course she wouldn't have tried to contact Dris on the way she took now... She couldn't even, because she couldn't see anything - there isn't even a line of sight to the sphere levitating out of the tower and down to the ground.
Now, even if we were to ignore all that, there still remains one issue: whispering equals yelling now?
Whispering, the very same thing Dris has been doing all night to feed the Message spell, much of it while being within spitting distance of a bandit (and definitely more quiet than the supposed half a dozen castings of the spell in between) equals yelling now?
---
PS: Just because there might be half a dozen ways by RAW that someone could've done something doesn't mean they can just state that they did something they haven't mentioned before, does it? Nel? ^^
I'm "presuming" that we're playing along the RAW as long as Nel doesn't say anything else, that the map is correct as long as Nel doesn't say anything else, and that things that have been described once don't change as long as Nel doesn't say anything else. That too much?
Some time ago, you explicitly told me I shouldn't assume Dris doing anything - that's what I've been trying to do. Now you want me to assume that she repeatedly casted a spell while being close enough to a guard who could've heard her...?
PS: I didn't correct you, I just explained why Mornaura won't react.
Perception:1d20 + 6 ⇒ (5) + 6 = 11 Is that enough to notice the sphere of darkness floating over the wall and down towards the sleeping bandits, contrasting with the moon-lit sky (with low-light-vision)? If so:
"Psst. Is that you, Dris...?," Mornaura whispers in the direction of the floating sphere of darkness.
In my understanding, the three sleeping guys aren't actually "down" anywhere. Our map is a map of the upper floor, right?
The "room" where the bandits are sleeping is (more or less) on the same level as the battlements/towers. On the first picture we got of the fort, you can also see on the small lateral picture, that the towers aren't higher than the center ruin.
So, from your position, you actually have to go UP (to get over the wall of the center ruin), then down again, and then you're back on the same level.
Now, why am I posting this?
The reason is that "Meet you there" might not be that easy to achieve. The, let's say, not-so-stealth-friendly-armored people, can't climb over the wall like Mornaura because they'll probably make a lot of noise.
They will probably head down the stairs and along that side of the building.
But, firstly, we don't know yet if there's an entrance on that side - on our map it doesn't look like it - so they might have to go all the way around and past the tower on the other side, and secondly, even if there is an entrance into the center building, they're down on the ground floor - we don't know what's going on down there yet, and they'll need to find a way up again.
All that without making too much noise.
PS: I don't want to offend anyone or start a discussion. Just want to make sure we're all on the same page about the current wheres and whats of our situation. :)
PPS: @Dris: Sadly, the message spell targets only one creature per level (spell targets are chosen when you finish casting the spell and can't be changed later on). Hence Mornaura didn't know about the guard in the other tower until Bingo told her, and doesn't know about your current plans. I meant to add that Mornaura can see Dris and Bingo moving in and that she'll whisper to you anyway, but actually she can't - low-light-vision doesn't help to pierce your darkness SLA. ^^
Still lying on top of the wall seperating the bandits from her companions, Mornaura quietly takes out the wand of cure light wounds and reaches down with it.
"Alright, Ionnia. Kaeso, I don't know if I ever make it back up here once I got down, so would you please step over here for a moment?"
When he does, she'll touch him with the wand and activate it to heal him. "There you go. Feeling better?"
Afterwards she'll stow it away and watch the sleeping bandits again.
@Kaeso: CLW heals you for 1d8 + 1 ⇒ (6) + 1 = 7 HP. It should get you back to full HP in any case, since the zombie hit was no crit, iirc.
"Psst. I'm fine, Ionnia, thanks. If you want to conserve your powers for later, we can heal Kaeso with the wand," Mornaura whispers.
"Norn, Kaeso, there are three sleeping bandits on the ruined floor behind this not very comfortable wall. Dris and Bingo are taking care of the guard in the last tower on this side."
"What? Well, thanks for notifying," the witch hisses down. She shifts around on the wall, trying to find a somewhat comfortable position, and continues to observe the sleeping bandits.
I'm readying my slumber hex again - if one of those guys wakes up, I try to send him back to dreamland immediately.
