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Well, if everything happens by the grace of God, then an awful lot of bad things happen by the grace of God. Not only, for example, was the tyrant king by the grace of God, but the rebellion that overthrew him also did so by the grace of God. In which case, grace of God doesn't really mean anything. It says nothing about whether something is good or bad or whether you should oppose it or not.
The expression "by the grace of God" is pretty much exclusively used of good things. Think of it as the positive aspects of a doctrine of divine providence (e.g., God hasn't allowed the Queen to die of natural causes or at the hands of a rebellion yet).
Taking that viewpoint "kingship by the grace of God" is largely irrelevant. In reality, an awful lot of horrible people claimed to be ruling by the grace of God, along with some good ones. And there weren't regular miraculous signs or overthrows of those claiming to do so.
It depends on what you mean by "irrelevant." Is it relevant whether there should be a change in government? No. Is it relevant to whether the ruler was a good ruler or a bad ruler? No. Is it relevant to whether there are real-life parallels to D&D cosmology? Yes.
On the meta level, what's "Lawful" and what's "good" are subjective, determined by the GM (and/or the players and/or the game/setting designer). Within the gam world it's not subjective.
Exactly my point. Within the context of the game world, they are what the GM, designers and players say they are. Similarly, but separately, the GM, designers and players say just how much OOC knowledge is known to the character--for example, what sort of afterlife there is, or if there is a Nine Hells or a Seven Heavens. Just like in real life, Christ either is the only-begotten Son of God or he is not--and this is a separate issue from whether any person believes it to be so.
And in the process, you ignored the one I made, hence why I believed you had missed it. ;P
Paladins are not mere partisans of ideals, though. Part of the trope is that paladins are partisans of objectively superior ideals—that everything is not relative, but that they've embraced Truth and Right more fully than others, and are an example to them.
That assumes OOC knowledge again. From an objective point of view, there is undoubtedly some party here on earth who have an objectively superior set of beliefs and ideals. But objectively knowing what those are requires knowledge and a lack of error in our thinking that no one on earth possesses. When we set up a paladin's code as holding to "objectively superior ideals," what we are saying is that we, the DM, gamers and designers, believe those ideals to be objectively superior (which is in itself a subjective judgment that may or may not correspond to the objective truth).
If we want real-life parallels, paladins as partisans of ideals still makes sense, because we cannot be strictly objective in our value judgments.
If they're receiving spells from said deities? I'd say yes.
That assumes that real life works in exact parallel to D&D mechanics, which is not what I said. If we believe miracles happen (and I do), then supernatural things still happen and we can't reduce our worldview to the modern rationalist, materialistic, empiricist Western worldview, which is what many do when they presuppose that someone isn't Queen so-and-so by the grace of God.
I wasn't aware that everyone who spoke here did so from that particular weltanschauung. As a practicing Roman Catholic, I reject it, if not utterly, than certainly as deserving of predominance.
We agree on that point then. But 1) our characters may not be objectively able to say that Queen X is literally queen by the grace of God--it largely depends on how we want to play the game and 2) who is to say that, in real life, Queen Elizabeth II isn't Queen of the United Kingdom by the grace of God, literally? In fact, from a Christian worldview, nothing happens except by God's allowance--including Queen Elizabeth's birth to her parents and her holding the throne.
I just find Buckley a bit of a pompous ass. ;)
That's funny, considering that he was Roman Catholic too. Have you ever met him? He was widely regarded as a very friendly man.
You're all kind of missing the point of my post. I was responding to StrangePackage's statement:
When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world — "No, you move."
That sounds remarkably similar to the statement Buckley made in The National Review:
A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it.
From what I gathered from StrangePackage's post, he was saying that paladins are partisans of their ideals. But the way he phrased it reminded me very much of another partisan of ideals, whom I quoted.
We tend to contrast D&D fantasy with the real-life modern world, but we do so with out-of-character knowledge when we talk about things like an NPC or PC being queen literally by '"the grace of God"/the gods'. Would our characters be any more aware of the supernatural than human beings here on Earth often are? We might say, 'Yeah, but the supernatural is make-believe,' but we reveal our own rationalistic, empiricist modern Western worldview when we say such things.
"A conservative is someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop, at a time when no one is inclined to do so, or to have much patience with those who so urge it." --William F. Buckley, Jr., Mission Statement of National Review
Faren "Untranslatable" wrote:
Hopefully a high average Charisma doesn't mean that we'll all be insufferably self-confident and incapable of working as a team. ;P Too many captains and no crew, so to speak.
Don't forget SS, AK ;P
I think I'm going to go with the weapon master fighter, though I may multi-class later into a diviner. That said:
Alarien Amankiir - elf female fighter (weapon master). An elven noble of the minor House Amankiir, Alarien is a student of the longsword yearning for adventure and a chance to see the world beyond the forests of Kyonin. So far, her 'adventures' have consisted largely of guarding caravans, the most recent of which recently arrived in Xer from the River Kingdoms.
I had been assuming she stayed naked. :P
What can I say? She might have a bit of an exhibitionist streak. Although maybe describing it as kneeling or crouching would have fit my mental image better; the emphasis was supposed to be on the cat-ate-the-canary smile enhanced by her lack of concern with human social taboos.
Sure. You're out in what, the Seattle area? I imagine the job market is a lot better for librarians out there than here in Indiana, where we have one of the top LIS schools in the country (Indiana University) servicing a slowly declining population.
And no, no openings for a librarian at the library I'm at.
Public, though I'd rather be in an academic one. The library I work at has a really bad problem with juvenile delinquents, too--we used to have a contract with a security company that staffed us with a lot of off-duty police officers, and now our in-house security is a reserve sheriff's deputy/chaplain, and we're still trying to hire a replacement for the second one, who joined the Army as a combat engineer.
I saw the alternate racial traits for Dræven and had to look them up on d20pfsrd. I was amused to note that it is possible to have the Darkvision alternate trait, which makes you susceptible to light-based dazzle effects...and also to be immune to light-based dazzle effects with the Lightbringer trait, since they replace different of the standard racial traits.
From my perspective, there really isn't an 'opposite side' to the 'Mwangi bloc.' There's just a couple of more-or-less isolated individuals, plus the Mwangi.
Ansha's connection to Kieran is kind of overshadowed by his connection to Tebati, so I tend to put Kieran in the 'Mwangi bloc,' as does Ansha--after all, there's already a trust issue between the two of them from their shared backstory. But he is one of the characters that bridge the intra-party factions, though, so the character often ends up moderating disputes and being the voice of reason.
Jakob does seem the most isolated in the group, but part of this is that the character and Qhude had a parting of ways, and Jakob seems inherently paranoid. As a result, I have a hard time imagining a positive connection for an incoming character to Jakob. Maybe a friend from his days in Absalom, but it seems like Jakob has little good to say about anything or anyone Sargavan, so it's hard to see a childhood friend or family friend or anything like that.
I don't know that it would be all that much of a stretch. Sargava does have a small minority of elves (there were even a handful--besides Zesaste--in Freehold), so it wouldn't be unheard-of for an elf to join the army. S/he could also be a member of the aforementioned mercenary company.
...Oh no, an elf? :P After Freehold, we don't trust elves on principle. And if he's a childhood friend of Ansha, we definitely wouldn't welcome him. Qhude doesn't even trust Ansha at this point.
Who's this "we"? ;P
The dysfunctional personality and racial dynamics of this group mean that there will likely be several people who distrust the newcomer regardless of what race and background he ends up with. Tebati and Qhude wouldn't trust an elf, Jakob likely wouldn't trust anyone, Ansha would only trust an elf. If the character were Mwangi, it would just add to the already-weighted dynamic of the Mwangi faction in the party. If the character weren't Mwangi, I imagine there would be at least one Mwangi supremacist who wouldn't trust him; but as someone whose character isn't Mwangi, it can feel like the Mwangi characters in the group often act as a bloc.