There is a thorn in my side gamers. The ever elusive epic beasts these days roam free, with no real heroes to keep them in check. Where are all the epic bard tales of late of all powerful beings hunting down such beasts and confronting them.
Well, with the birth of Pathfinder and the preference to cap out at 15th level characters, what is to happen with those amazingly powerful and famous monsters/beings out in the world now? Do we just leave them as a distant memory recalled only in knowledge checks? This pains me and for someone who has run a game up to 16th level I do understand the pain and energy required to take on the last quarter of the score of levels for a character. This is pretty much epic level play these days due to its elusiveness and rarity. Well, what if we simplify it. There are no hard Paizo produced Pathfinder adventures for 15th - 20th level that I have been able to find so I am thinking of an alternative. I want to experience these 'epic' encounters and beasts/monsters and will DM it if needed.
I propose that instead of a continued adventure path which is hard to GM, the PCs undertake a trial named Trophies of Ascension. At 15th level, characters may undertake a trial. They travel to an ancient monastery not devoted to any particular deity and rather the entire pantheon of gods. Due to this, they channel power from an infinite and immortal pool of powerful energies which affords them divining powers among other powers. These all powerful titans, the immortal monks facilitate the trial. The trial is a to collect trophies from beasts/monsters and return them to the monks. This trial will take you from 15th to 20th level and if you succeed you will ascend mortality and become an agent of your deity. However, bound to the restrictions of the titan immortals, you will root out more creatures for future trials or locate and guide candidates to take the trial. Your choices after ascension are in your deities favor and to your deities benefit.
This effectively removes the complexity of writing an actual campaign but still gives you access as a party to encounter some famous and infamous foes. I know this doesn't cater to all who lover character development above all else as not following an adventure path may seem slightly hollow to some but it's not going to be to everyone's liking.
This is an opportunity to take a beloved character, retired at 15th level and see it progress to an ultimate state.
Feedback please.
Sounds like a great idea.
I'd be interested in writing a character for this.
I am soooo in!
Given that I've never played above level 9... I'd love to give it a go! Is anyone keen to run through as a Fighter/Wizard/Cleric/Rogue, or will we just run with whatever?
I'd suggest you do a loose round-robin DM method. You could get a stable of characters here and then when a particular DM has something they want to run, they drop a note saying something like "I need 4 heroes to go after the Ancient Wyrm of Pendregast. Who is in?"
You'll want to establish the Point Build, race boundaries, build limits, and starting cash from the get-go. I'd suggest you say NO to ARG race builds (too easy to Munchkin) and Gestalt builds... it's an easy cheat to break your 15 level concept.
This is just interest and feedback. If i decide to go ahead i will outline the specifics for classes but yes. I somewhat agree with Twigs, the simplicity of no multiclass and traditional party build is preferred. This is more focused on facing uncommon epic beasts with limited roleplaying on occasion but still. If I were to compare it to anything, it would be a classic dungeon crawl to the boss encountering problems, minions etc.
Feedback is good. Not just a hands up.
Storm, I will be keeping PCs limited as you suggested cause that will alienate those types of players who just want to break the game and quite frankly if players like that sit at my table, I tell them straight to piss off before I rock them. Pet hate. Say no to wankers. I like your suggestion of round-robin as I am sure there are a few GM's who would like to take a stab at this due to the simplicity of design. I would welcome submissions to the thread of GM's that would like to participate.
Is it chars you have actually played with? Xavier here is 4th level but will be EPIC by 15. So would Varrel from my Crimson throne game.
I would like to think people have PCs around that level they wish to take to lv20. The epic scenes painted in my mind from the high end of the Age of Worms campaign immortalized my wizard Pew in my mind. But I am not going to limit it, that's the players choice.
I'd be up for a Round-Robin style thing. Could be a lot of fun. I don't have a character in mind (well, I do, but I think Twigs should stay in my home game where he belongs), but I'd like to get a chance to play a Fighter-type Dwarf and a high-end wizard or cleric at some point.
Perhaps we could hunt Linnorm in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings. Could make for a nice self contained adventure as someone claims the title of Linnorm King and marches on home with the head in tow. If we're running in Golarion I can think of no better trophy.
Not sure how any character I've played would fit, to be honest. My characters tend to be really, really mundane. I've played more carpenters than I have dragonslayers. I'd probably just come up with something more appropriate, and I've wanted to play a dwarf for my entire roleplaying career...
On that note, what monsters has everyone here always wanted to go toe to toe with? I'll never forget my first dragon, but I've never once fought a giant in my life, or any demons or devils beyond Imps and Quasits despite actually PLAYING a game in hell. (I suppose there was a single Erinyes that we charmed to our side but it's still somewhat depressing that I've fought a bear made entirely of gums and teeth but not a succubus.)
I could also step into the GM chair for one of our next monsters. :)
Well Twigs, anything, anywhere is possible. I am thinking different planes as well as it is quite easy to do such when the Titan monks have the control of the travel aspect. I will be selecting from multiple sources. Tome of Horrors, Pathfinder Bestiary 1,2,3, Converted D&D 3.0 manuals. I know that's not specific but hey.
Oooo, this'd be the perfect place for my 13th level green draconic sorcerer. All I'd have to do would be to bump him a couple levels, and gear up!
If you decide to run the game, I'd love to get in.
Definitely interested and always always always wanted to go after a tarrasque but never got a chance to. I would KILL (pun intended) to get into this game if it were to happen.
I'd put in my life oracle (see profile, boosted to level 15) for this for fun.
Could there be a better hunter than a ranger and/or gunslinger ;-) Very interested, indeed ;-)
Hunting for sport might blow. But, as part of some plot, story, scenario with moral justification , I'd be in with a Summoner.
So far, interest seems to be enough that I will start pondering and fleshing out my thoughts more with regard to style and the plot/theme. Might even start planning the first encounter.
I will get back to the thread soon with PC creation boundaries.
Definitely interested, and I agree with the round robin style. This way, anybody who wants to make a PC can, and when a GM needs a group, a call goes out.
One thing I would strongly suggest implementing, would be a way to make sure as many different PCs join a particular hunt as possible. This way, the same two or three PCs don't keep getting picked.
Also,
I think this could be, if desired, a really fun way to utilize the Immortal rules by Upper_Krust. They would certainty help create a feel of true epicness, even before level 20.
Okay, I propose this, considering Monkeygod's response.
The round-robin was with regard to GM's, not so much players as the objective is the the PC to reach 20th level.
I am happy to write up the base of this system but it will only have sanctioned Pathfinder rules and content in it. This will include the background information regarding the monks as well as the specifics of the trial system.
If PC interest continues to build on this system in this thread, then I would expect other Game Threads to start up using the 'Trophies of Ascension' system. I don't wish however to put aside PCs in my thread. I will take them through to 20th level if they survive.
Sorry about that. The way Stormraven made it sound it seemed to be both to me.
Sort of like a help wanted type of deal. I decide I want to run a hunt vs a Pit Fiend Barbarian so I come to the recruitment thread and go "Hey, I need me 4 or 5 PCs to take down this menace"...
At least that's how I read it...
Sounds interesting, I have a Barbarian, I'd love to see at that level as well as a Druid that I loved playing and would enjoy taking to truly high level play.
Bish Bosh loads of dosh, Im in for a penny in for a pound mate, 15th level Tel leaf that's what ya needs mate, go a nabbing them beasts like.
Sorry about that. The way Stormraven made it sound it seemed to be both to me.
Sort of like a help wanted type of deal. I decide I want to run a hunt vs a Pit Fiend Barbarian so I come to the recruitment thread and go "Hey, I need me 4 or 5 PCs to take down this menace"...
At least that's how I read it...
I understand what you mean entirely but that couldnt work in a single game thread as I am sure they would be run concurrently. Also, in separate threads GMs could share their around their encounters which can be modified for the required CR.
I'm going to be using maptools with Flickr.com for maps aswell. I find it works well and my current PCs enjoy it.
Upto 5 PCs per party
Roles required:
Combat (Melee/Tank)
Healing / divine caster
Stealth / skill mastery
Arcane caster
No third-party content for Player Characters
Abilities - 20 Point buy (High Fantasy)
No Stat reduced below 7 or raised above 18
Apply racial modifiers after all points spent
Races: Core Races only
Classes: Core / Base / Alternate / Prestige including Archetypes
Starting wealth at 15th level = 240 000gp
Let me ponder Psionics GSV.
I think I am in also. I just ran a gauntlet(Arena style combat) with 13th level characters recently. As soon as one of the PbP games ends as a GM will be available as an alternate GM for this one. I don't know exactly when that will be though. I am guessing with the next month or so, which really is not that bad since my high level fights in the gauntlet took about a week to resolve.
PM me directly if you wish to GM. I will email you the base info when complete. And that way I can keep a log of GMs when we get enough players to fill another group.
Twigs, here. I've begun to put a fighter-type together and would also be keen to play Bastagar, my Arcane Trickster, again, depending on what the party needs.
I would LOVE to jump is as a mystic thurge here. Level 15 means 3 wizard 3 cleric and 9 mystic. So many spells so little time.
Or rogue turned shadow dancer.
As a Gm of a few years I would like to propose something to the players here. Ever heard of Tomb of Horrors? Temple of Elemental Evil? These are legendary amongst the Gaming community. The whole design for me as a GM is to take my players to the next level after completing a long running adventure arc. Even in rote adventure paths I introduce threads to lead to the last 5 levels if Life doesn't get in the way of the game. I understand the test of godhood theme well. I played an elven fighter/wizard well beyond level 20 in Second edition and have run games starting off at level 19. The difficulty past level 15 is how do you deal with characters who can lay waste to entire villages with a few well places spells or abilities? How do you deal with the Paladin who can smite a Pit fiend into oblivion in one blow? Well, Tomb of Horrors was this at it's best. We used to call it the adventure where old PC's went to die.
Now I am not saying I want to obliterate characters. I am saying that I would want to waltz in as a near diefic servant of some greater power to hire the PC's to recover the Sword of Kas or maybe even one of the fabled Dragon Orbs. Beast hunts and Epic monsters sounds exciting, but if you would like a side adventure in which you risk it all to kill a CR 25 Lich or a CR 32 Ancient Wyrm Undead Dragon? Maybe a trip into the world scar....who knows. When you are looking at the gap from level 20 to 21 the whole game changes.
But I'm in with a 15th level 75 year old Wizard Ala Gandalf or Elminster...Hey don't knock'em those two are the reason we have gaming to start with.
But I'm in with a 15th level 75 year old Wizard Ala Gandalf or Elminster...Hey don't knock'em those two are the reason we have gaming to start with.
Rysil, I got lost in that post. What was your actual proposal?
Having finished work and had time to read your post again Rysil, I think your basically implying what I have already suggested. I don't intend on just running combat encounters by any means. Players will need to make their way to the end boss for the said trophy. Instead of an ultimate goal a couple levels, I would like to give the players 5 levels of game play without writing out a specific adventure path. Merely a string of trophy bosses in their own settings/dungeons/environs that will entail combat/hazard or obstacles/puzzle/randoms/RP or story/traps /combinations encounters. If they gain the trophies then this allows them the gift of Ascension. It will take time and it's time I am happy to spend. Dungeon design, encounter building and tactics it will all take time.
Upto 5 PCs per party
Roles required:
Combat (Melee/Tank)
Healing / divine caster
Stealth / skill mastery
Arcane casterNo third-party content for Player Characters
Abilities - 20 Point buy (High Fantasy)
No Stat reduced below 7 or raised above 18
Apply racial modifiers after all points spent
Races: Core Races only
Classes: Core / Base / Alternate / Prestige including Archetypes
Starting wealth at 15th level = 240 000gp
Do you expect us to post characters here, to PM them, are you going to open a new thread for recruitment or something else?
One other thing Intelligent items yes/no?
Right now this is information regarding what will be required. I am at no point ready to accept or critique PCs. When I am ready, I will ask for submissions. If you wish to submit a PC to me however, feel free to PM me.
GSV.
Psionics - No (3rd Party)
Intelligent Items - Yes
Follow cost capping on PC creation.
Below are your allowable budgets in percentage of your starting wealth.
(starting wealth 15th level 240 000gp)
magic items. Most rings, rods, and wondrous items fit into this category.
standard nonmagical gear for the character. This category can also include jewelry, gems, or loose coins that the PC might have on his person.
Thanks for the help with gear. It's easy to cross the line there.
Color me interested as a player. I would like to keep this alive and if you have a contact list of people your collecting for interest please add me to it.
I'm building encounters when able outside of work and my twin bubs needs.
Sorry for segmented posts. I just have to get stuff down when I can. Will post in full when done.
I would love to get in on this! This alias is for a lvl 11 Bard (Dervish Dancer) who was a blast to play until the campaign fizzled. He would easily fit your skill master slot and I would easily rework his spells for less role play and more buffing if needed. Please consider me if this becomes a recruitment :-)
Follow cost capping on PC creation.
Below are your allowable budgets in percentage of your starting wealth.
(starting wealth 15th level 240 000gp)** spoiler omitted **
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I'd like to see a bit more flexibility in these spending allotments. E.g, as a life oracle it's silly for me to spend 30% of my cash on 'offensive weaponry'. My time would be spent buffing, debuffing, healing, and summoning monsters when I want to do damage. It would not be smacking things with my +3 mace of elemental nova.
Also where your percentages equal up to exactly 100% there is no wiggle room.
I'd like to propose something more like:
Weapons: 40%
Protection: 40%
Magic: 35%
Consumable Magic: 15%
Other gear: 5% (I doubt anyone will spend 12k gold on mundane gear, so it can stay at 5%)
So these numbers say you can spend up to that % of starting wealth, but don't have to spend that much.
I don't really care about the exact numbers if you want to put forth different values though.
HP Question
MAX HP for first level, average + 1 for the other 14?
I'm really quite interested in this idea. Ive been RPGing for decades and never played high level games. I'll throw some ideas around so I'm ready when you are.
this would be helpful so i know what to expect from my RL carrion crown game, at least in terms of endgame combat.
@Mlungisi
Budget
My budget is firm with the only exception below.
The gear budget includes coins and gems etc. This is the part of the budget you may use to top up other categories of equipment but note you will still be required to buy gear as I will be referencing your gear list.
HP
Max at 1st and minimum half at new levels.