Mage Armor (spell) and Bracers of Amor... do they stack?

[Lord Tsarkon]

First of all... sorry for bringing this up... but I haven't played Dnd in 10 years... back when 3rd edition came out (really ruined the hobby for me with those horrible rules)..

I came back because of Paizo and Pathfinder... and Pathfinder fixed alot of the problems I had with ole 3rd edition (but some things drive me crazy like Horse Stats)..

..anyways I understand how bonuses stack and do not stack... but I"m still confused if Mage Armor Spell can stack with Bracers of Armor

PS.. I've tried to use SEarch but it came up with lots of Bracers of Armor stacking or not stacking with regular armor... not the Spell Mage Armor..

Thanks in advance

[Gallo]

Lord Tsarkon wrote:

First of all... sorry for bringing this up... but I haven't played Dnd in 10 years... back when 3rd edition came out (really ruined the hobby for me with those horrible rules)..

I came back because of Paizo and Pathfinder... and Pathfinder fixed alot of the problems I had with ole 3rd edition (but some things drive me crazy like Horse Stats)..

..anyways I understand how bonuses stack and do not stack... but I"m still confused if Mage Armor Spell can stack with Bracers of Armor

PS.. I've tried to use SEarch but it came up with lots of Bracers of Armor stacking or not stacking with regular armor... not the Spell Mage Armor..

Thanks in advance

No. Both provide an armour bonus.

[Roshan]

Lord Tsarkon wrote:

First of all... sorry for bringing this up... but I haven't played Dnd in 10 years... back when 3rd edition came out (really ruined the hobby for me with those horrible rules)..

I came back because of Paizo and Pathfinder... and Pathfinder fixed alot of the problems I had with ole 3rd edition (but some things drive me crazy like Horse Stats)..

..anyways I understand how bonuses stack and do not stack... but I"m still confused if Mage Armor Spell can stack with Bracers of Armor

PS.. I've tried to use SEarch but it came up with lots of Bracers of Armor stacking or not stacking with regular armor... not the Spell Mage Armor..

Thanks in advance

Unless specifically saying it does stack no two bonuses of the same type stack. AC, Stat, to hit, damage, all of them, If ANY bonuses are the same you take the highest one (the exception to the rule being dodge bonuses to AC, these stack).

[Lord Tsarkon]

thanks for the quick responses...

So that would mean the Shield spell would not stack with a Shield (buckler?)

[Apotheosis]

Lord Tsarkon wrote:

thanks for the quick responses...

So that would mean the Shield spell would not stack with a Shield (buckler?)

Right, and for the same reason.

[leo1925]

What the others said.

[IkeDoe]

Just remember that the Shield spell is a force effect and thus increases your touch AC against incorporeal attacks (magic/mundane shields or armor don't).

[gourry187]

just to clarify they do not stack however, if those spells were to be cast, the subject of the spell would take the higher bonus to the AC type ... correct?

[Maxximilius]

gourry187 wrote:

just to clarify they do not stack however, if those spells were to be cast, the subject of the spell would take the higher bonus to the AC type ... correct?

Correct.

Same bonuses don't stack, only higher apply.

[Grick]

gourry187 wrote:

just to clarify they do not stack however, if those spells were to be cast, the subject of the spell would take the higher bonus to the AC type ... correct?

One thing to keep in mind with the Bracers of Armor, is that if a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities.

For example, if you are wearing +1 Heavy Fortification Energy Resistance Bracers of Armor and then cast Mage Armor, the spell has a higher AC value than the bracers, so the bracers completely stop functioning, including the fortification and resistance.

That's different from, say, wearing +1 Heavy Fortification Energy Resistance Padded Armor then casting Mage Armor. You'll get 4 AC (from Mage Armor) but still get the Fort and Resist from the armor. The only part that doesn't stack is the armor bonus (+4 from spell overlaps the +2 from the armor).

[Lady-J]

would bracers of armor that just have special abilities like forification stack with mage armor though?

[Jeraa]

Quote:

would bracers of armor that just have special abilities like forification stack with mage armor though?

Bracers of armor can't just have special abilities. They must also have at least a +1 armor bonus first, the same as regular magic armor.

Quote:

Bracers of armor must have at least a +1 armor bonus to grant an armor special ability.

If any other source of armor provides an armor bonus greater than the bracers, all of the bracers magic shuts off, special abilities included.

[Gisher]

That's quite a necro.

To your question, Bracers of Armor have the following statements in their description.

UE wrote:

If the wearer receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning.

So no stacking.

Edit: Ninja'd by Jeraa.

[Lady-J]

dang was hoping to just get like a +1 heavy fortification bracers of armor and then use mage armor to boost ac by 3

[_Ozy_]

Use a +1 armored kilt of fortification.

[Gisher]

_Ozy_ wrote:

Use a +1 armored kilt of fortification.

Yes, or Mage Armor with +1 heavy fortification Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial armor. Both of those armors have 0% Arcane Spell Failure which I'm guessing you are trying to work around.

Also keep in mind that you can add Fortification to shields, too. Mithral Bucklers, for example.

[Lady-J]

unless monks can wear harmaki or silken armor and still get their wis to ac they would be a no go

[Gisher]

Lady-J wrote:

unless monks can wear harmaki or silken armor and still get their wis to ac they would be a no go

No good for Monks, I'm afraid. I thought perhaps you were working on a Wizard-type character.

[Lady-J]

Gisher wrote:

Lady-J wrote:

unless monks can wear harmaki or silken armor and still get their wis to ac they would be a no go

No good for Monks, I'm afraid. I thought perhaps you were working on a Wizard-type character.

barbarian with a 2 level monk dip but was looking at a template that gave me at will mage armor (self only) ill still take the template but will choose a different ability than the at will mage armor tho

[Scrapper]

Bracers of Armor are actually created with the spell Mage Armor as part of it's creation, so in effect it's a permanent AC set Mage Armor spell, so only the better of the two effects function.

[_Ozy_]

That has nothing to do with it. If bracers didn't have the specific words restricting the stacking, it would work.

The actual spells used to make magic items are pure fluff with regard to the item abilities, and can be bypassed with a mere +5 to the craft DC. Especially since you can add non-enhancement enchantment abilities to the bracers which have nothing to do with the mage armor spell.

[Ravingdork]

As has been said, bonuses of the same type do not stack. Howevere, there are exceptions to this rule: Dodge bonuses, racial bonuses, circumstance bonuses (from different circumstances) and untyped bonuses all stack with themselves and with other bonuses.

You can find the rules for them in the Magic Chapter of the Core Rulebook and the Designing Spells section of Ultimate Magic (of all places).

Bonus Types: Usually, a bonus has a type that indicates how the spell grants the bonus. The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don't generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works (see Combining Magical Effects). The same principle applies to penalties—a character taking two or more penalties of the same type applies only the worst one, although most penalties have no type and thus always stack. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

Some of the more common bonuses follow:

• alchemical bonus
  
• armor bonus
  
• charisma bonus
  
• circumstance bonus
  
• competence bonus
  
• constitution bonus
  
• deflection bonus
  
• dexterity bonus
  
• enhancement bonus
  
• dodge bonus
  
• inherit
  
• insight bonus
  
• intelligence bonus
  
• luck bonus
  
• morale bonus
  
• natural armor bonus
  
• profane bonus
  
• racial bonus
  
• resistance bonus
  
• sacred bonus
  
• shield bonus
  
• size bonus
  
• strength bonus
  
• wisdom bonus
  

I'm sure there are more than that out there as well.

Bracers of armor don't stack with mage armor because both the spell and the magical item both provide an armor bonus. When you have two armor bonuses, you only take the higher of the two, though the lower of the two is still in effect.

For example, if you had bracers of armor +2, and an ally cast mage armor on you, you would have an armor bonus of 4, not 6. However, if an enemy mage cast dispel magic on you, ending the mage armor effect, you would still have your +2 armor bonus from your bracers.

[Letric]

Grick wrote:

That's different from, say, wearing +1 Heavy Fortification Energy Resistance Padded Armor then casting Mage Armor. You'll get 4 AC (from Mage Armor) but still get the Fort and Resist from the armor. The only part that doesn't stack is the armor bonus (+4 from spell overlaps the +2 from the armor).

Are you telling me I can get Hamaraki paying almost nothing and getting all the good things like Fortification and then cast Mage Armor and benefit from both the AC bonus from Mage Armor and the abilities of my Hamaraki???

[Ravingdork]

Letric wrote:

Grick wrote:

That's different from, say, wearing +1 Heavy Fortification Energy Resistance Padded Armor then casting Mage Armor. You'll get 4 AC (from Mage Armor) but still get the Fort and Resist from the armor. The only part that doesn't stack is the armor bonus (+4 from spell overlaps the +2 from the armor).

Are you telling me I can get Hamaraki paying almost nothing and getting all the good things like Fortification and then cast Mage Armor and benefit from both the AC bonus from Mage Armor and the abilities of my Hamaraki???

Yes, however, that is restricted in the case of bracers of armor; from its description:

If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities.

[Gisher]

Letric wrote:

Grick wrote:

That's different from, say, wearing +1 Heavy Fortification Energy Resistance Padded Armor then casting Mage Armor. You'll get 4 AC (from Mage Armor) but still get the Fort and Resist from the armor. The only part that doesn't stack is the armor bonus (+4 from spell overlaps the +2 from the armor).

Are you telling me I can get Hamaraki paying almost nothing and getting all the good things like Fortification and then cast Mage Armor and benefit from both the AC bonus from Mage Armor and the abilities of my Hamaraki???

Yes, and the +4 from Mage Armor is a Force Effect so it works against incorporeal attacks which, without Ghost Touch, a Hamaraki doesn't.

[Letric]

That Is awesome!!! I didnt know it worked that way. Is there any faq validating this? I dont think my DM Will allow it honestly.

It does seam a cheap way to get over AC and special abilities really cheap

[Ravingdork]

Letric wrote:

That Is awesome!!! I didnt know it worked that way. Is there any faq validating this? I dont think my DM Will allow it honestly.

It does seam a cheap way to get over AC and special abilities really cheap

It's really not that great in the long run when you could have +10 or more to AC from better armor.

[Zedth]

Bracers de Amor? (bracers of love?)

:-P

[Letric]

Ravingdork wrote:

Letric wrote:

That Is awesome!!! I didnt know it worked that way. Is there any faq validating this? I dont think my DM Will allow it honestly.

It does seam a cheap way to get over AC and special abilities really cheap

It's really not that great in the long run when you could have +10 or more to AC from better armor.

Yes, but as a wizard i dont care much about armor but i do about special abilities AND having free armor from mage armor.

[Alderic]

I always wondered what happened with +2 Bracers (with some extra abilities on them) worn with a magical armor that gave a +2 bonus as well, along with other abilities.
Since the AC bonus is the same, which one is going to work ?

There is also Magic Vestment for those that want a +1 armor with several abilitis on top but don't want to give up AC completely.

[Jeraa]

Alderic wrote:

I always wondered what happened with +2 Bracers (with some extra abilities on them) worn with a magical armor that gave a +2 bonus as well, along with other abilities.

Since the AC bonus is the same, which one is going to work ?

By RAW, both still function normally. Except the armor bonuses don't stack. Only if one source grants a higher armor bonus does the other shut off entirely.

[_Ozy_]

Now that is what I call a loophole! :D

However, it's the armor bonus, not the enchantment bonus that is compared.

[James Risner]

Wasn't there a post by a Dev in a previous armored kilt thread that said a +1 (pick a special) armored kilt wouldn't provide the special if the armor the kilt is on is more armor bonus?

[Alderic]

_Ozy_ wrote:

Now that is what I call a loophole! :D

However, it's the armor bonus, not the enchantment bonus that is compared.

Yep, I was comparing for example +2 Bracers to +1 Padded/Quilted. Both have a total armor bonus of +2 (which of course won't stack) but both could have special armor properties, and the special rules for the bracers don't mention what happens if you have the same armor bonus from another source...

I was just curious if there was a FAQ out there already, couldn't find it.

[James Risner]

Dev saying ignore plus specials for armored kilts when wearing other armor with plus specials.

Don't think of an kilt as a separate piece of armor, more like you are creating a new type of armor with the combination

[Stuffy Grammarian]

_Ozy_ wrote:

it's the armor bonus, not the enchantment bonus that is compared.

"Enchantment" is not a bonus type in PF. "Enhancement," however, is.

[_Ozy_]

^^^ correct, thanks.