Interesting discussion I just had with my GM.
The line in question from arcane pool is this one
"These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon
enhancement to a maximum of +5"
I first read this and assumed ok so you can't increase the numerical bonus above +5 , ok no probs, but you can push the overall enchantment on a weapon to +10 like normal.
GM read it slightly differently and I can see the merit in his interpretation.
Max enchantment on the weapon is +5 as in you can't go over +5 overall enchanting
Meaning a level 17 Magus with a +5 sword cannot turn his +5 sword into a +5 vorpal sword he can only turn it into a Vorpal Sword, replacing the existing +5 bonus.
This way the ability becomes semi useless once you start getting +6-+10 overall weapons as this ability can only go up to +5 max.
Has there been anything official on this ?
or general people's thoughts ?
No... you can add a maximum of +5 in bonuses or qualities. When you are at 20 as a Magus the weapon is a base +5 hit and damage weapon so you can add up to +5 in qualities to it. So yes, as long as you did not enchant anything on it, you can have a +5 vorpal sword at cap.
unfortunately thats not clearly stated as per this line
"These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weaponenhancement to a maximum of +5"
hence our discussion
to a maximum of +5 added at level 20, which means 5 is the max that the pool will add to the weapon. at level 20 you'll have a +5 weapon/+5 qualities. Rember that without the arcane pool the weapon is a +5 hit/damage without special qualities you'll use the pool to add up to +5 worth of qualities on it.No... you can add a maximum of +5 in bonuses or qualities. When you are at 20 as a Magus the weapon is a base +5 hit and damage weapon so you can add up to +5 in qualities to it. So yes, as long as you did not enchant anything on it, you can have a +5 vorpal sword at cap.unfortunately thats not clearly stated as per this line
"These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon
enhancement to a maximum of +5"hence our discussion
thats acutally covered in the previous line
For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon
enhancement to a maximum of +5.
why say the same thing twice unless they're not saying the same thing
(btw I'm not arguing for the sake of it I'm looking for a concrete answer to take to my GM)
No, it isn't a max enchantment bonus of +5, but enhancement bonus. There is a difference. Enhancement bonus is a specific type of bonus. The max of +5, is bonus to hit and damage (for weapons).
Now on top of the max +5 enhancement bonus, you can give an additional +5 of special qualities. In your example, +5 for a Vorpal sword, giving a total of +10 enchantment bonus. +5 for the enhancement bonus and +5 for special qualities.
To clarify, here's the rules quotes that resolve this problem:
A magic weapon is enhanced to strike more truly and deliver more damage. Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5.
...
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.
The ability refers only to the "enhancement bonus", and never makes mention of the "modified bonus" or "special ability bonus equivalents".
Therefore, it is simply reinforcing that the Magus ability does not break the general rule of "enhancement bonus of +1 to +5 only", even when tacking onto a weapon that already has an enhancement bonus ().
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'... Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's base price modifier...' (Ultimate Magic, page 9)
An enhancement bonus which has been 'consumed' is no longer an enhancement bonus - it's something else - so it no longer counts towards the weapon's maximum enhancement bonus... because it isn't one...
Technically, RAW, this ability doesn't even limit a Magus from pushing an already magical weapon's total bonus equivalent above +10 either... a level 5 Magus who found a +5 Vorpal sword (total bonus equivalent of +10) can still burn an arcane pool point to add Frost and Shock to the weapon. In no place in the Arcane Pool text does it mention the overall magical weapon 'plus equivalent' cap of +10 as a limiting factor on what the class feature can do.
There doesn't need to be anything "official" on this, its clear reading this you just have to read it with an eye to not try and screw the player characters over. No where in the English speaking world does "add" mean "replace."
Beyond that, why on earth would the ability to add special properties require a minimum of +1 enhancement if you're just replacing the enhancement anyways.
+1
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'... Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's base price modifier...' (Ultimate Magic, page 9)
An enhancement bonus which has been 'consumed' is no longer an enhancement bonus - it's something else - so it no longer counts towards the weapon's maximum enhancement bonus... because it isn't one...
Technically, RAW, this ability doesn't even limit a Magus from pushing an already magical weapon's total bonus equivalent above +10 either... a level 5 Magus who found a +5 Vorpal sword (total bonus equivalent of +10) can still burn an arcane pool point to add Frost and Shock to the weapon. In no place in the Arcane Pool text does it mention the overall magical weapon 'plus equivalent' cap of +10 as a limiting factor on what the class feature can do.
its been said a pally's divine bond can break the +10 limit, and i think they are worded similar enough.
its been said a pally's divine bond can break the +10 limit, and i think they are worded similar enough.'... Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's base price modifier...' (Ultimate Magic, page 9)
An enhancement bonus which has been 'consumed' is no longer an enhancement bonus - it's something else - so it no longer counts towards the weapon's maximum enhancement bonus... because it isn't one...
Technically, RAW, this ability doesn't even limit a Magus from pushing an already magical weapon's total bonus equivalent above +10 either... a level 5 Magus who found a +5 Vorpal sword (total bonus equivalent of +10) can still burn an arcane pool point to add Frost and Shock to the weapon. In no place in the Arcane Pool text does it mention the overall magical weapon 'plus equivalent' cap of +10 as a limiting factor on what the class feature can do.
As can Greater Magic Weapon (+1 Dancing Vorpal = +10 item) and then cast GMW to change the Enhancement Bonus to +5 for a +5 Dancing Vorpal _______ that's Effectively a +14 weapon.
Rules fail:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, ) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.