GM Rednal's War of the Burning Sky (Inactive)

Game Master Rednal

Zen Archer is powerful(which is why I picked it in the original build in the first place), but it feels like shenanigans. Gamey in a way of being frontloaded with stuff.
@Full Paladin: not even about Smite - Hospitaler delays that. But better and earlier scaling on the Lay on Hands(+mercies), better and earlier scaling of divine bond, earlier and full scaling on the weapon damage(well, level 10+, but I also count earlier Weapon Specialisations), earlier and more powerful channel.
(Plus if we do get to Level 20, the Paladin capstone would be fun to have...definitely not a reason, but fancy, regardless(for the auto-maxed healing))

Plus as you say, the Bonus Feats do allow some viability...I still took care to balance between combat and non-combat Feats, but I slightly frontloaded the Combat Feats to make things work.

Heh, I'm lined up to not take full advantage of my capstones. Though Monk 20 has better DR than Paladin 20...

Hmm. Lay on Hands gets used a lot more by melee paladins, and might be less useful considering that both Umbriak and I are getting better Channel Energy progression. Divine Bond is really hard to use properly, unless you're getting a mount—but a ranged character doesn't benefit as much from the templates a paladin mount gets, and you could just as easily dip into Animal Ally for the mobility boost.

Zen Archer is only kind of shenanigans? It may be a bit frontloaded, but by level 2-3 a ranger or fighter is already better at archery, and the campaign setting does have a strong monastic element.

I think the big difference though is, do you want your character to act like a paladin? (to be fair, I've played LG characters and I've played paladins, but I've never played an LG paladin)

Uhm...nope - let me stop this before old habits take over: I am not actually looking for input, I was just fancying your question/out of curiosity-

@DR: It's not "better", both are 10, but it's more useful for the monk with Chaotic, rather than Evil. Then again, Paladin is less dependent on DR in the first place, since he will auto-heal 60 points of damage.

@Channel progression: Actually Umbriak is not better off, but worse. Since his Channel is based on Fervor it tops out at 7d6, while I will reach 9d6(same as VMC cleric, just one level delayed). Also, he uses Fervor to trigger it, while I have a separate pool(of 3+Cha, as opposed to VMC 1+Cha times per day). Oh, and that is 56 healing at L20 since it's also maxed.
Regarding only needing it as melee paladin: the new build still has Point Blank Master, I don't intend to stand back...plus it's a great free failsafe no matter what causes damage.

@Divine Bond: lasts long enough. the only thing making it difficult to use is needing a standard action to buff. Considering I can trigger it with lay-on-hands uses, I can also afford to activate it on the chance that it is needed.
Getting a Holy or a Brilliant Energy Weapon just when needed is fancy, and not really hard to use imho. Same as the swift action Arcane Pool...I can run with a flat enhancement on the bow, and add special properties as needed via Divine Bond and Arcane Pool.

@Zen Archer: Since there ever was only a plan to dip 4 levels(up to Ki Pool), it is heavily front-loaded, yes. Getting Weapon Focus, Point Blank Master, and 2 choosen bonus feats(point-blank+precise shot?) on the first 3 levels, together with the flurry(=effectively rapid shot) and monkie goodies(primarily the +5 AC while unarmored and speed increase, which neither fighter nor ranger provide, in addition to 4(5 with improved unarmed so you threaten in melee) free feats over 3 levels in addition to normal progression? yep...frontloaded).

@Act like a Paladin: Always was going to be, considering 16 of the 20 levels would have been paladin anyway. I believe Erastil is some nicely traditional dude with down-to-earth views supporting a hands-on-approach, with little of that fancy tacked-on b~~#*$&! serving no purpose. I think we'll get along just fine. If that is not the case, I'll see it as an opportunity to step up my game.

My bad! I'll shut up about advice then.

Hmm, didn't realize Umbraik's channel scaled on Fervor. I think my bigger point though was that if we have trouble with healing in this party we're probably doing something wrong.

I guess Brilliant Energy is worth a standard action? The big problem as I see it is that Divine Bond gets more powerful at high levels, when martial characters have fewer standard actions to spare—unlike things like Inspire Courage, Tactician, etc. which become easier to use (or Arcane Pool, which is swift). It's the same issue I have with Occultists, whose ability to grant anyone in the party anything-bane would be much better if it didn't always take a standard action and only last a few turns.

Actually RAW, does Divine Bond last all day? Because it kinda seems like that.

Zen Archer flurry is actually worse than Rapid Shot (until level 8), because it doesn't work with Manyshot. The Monk +5 AC isn't much different than what you'd get with Arcane Armor Mastery, though that is another few feats. Getting 4 feats in 4 levels isn't much different than a fighter getting 3, while going all the way to fighter 5 nets you a ton of goodies that the monk can't. (Though the classic cheap-o dip would probably be Lore Warden 2/Ranger 2)

All I remember about paladins of Erastil is that they *really* don't have a sense of humor.

The normal Divine Bond lasts 1 min/Paladin level. Some effects may alter that, of course, but that's true for basically everything in this game. XD

Divine Bond is 1 min/pala level. So it's a good pre-battle buff, if you know something is going to happen...or expect it to. As said, I can trigger it off lay on hands if I am out of uses, so it's sweet to have, but not something I would depend on. But e.g. turning my bow into a flaming holy thingie may be worthwhile. Plus, as so often, I MAY need to move or get into a position that gives me line of fire, in which case I have something fancy to do with my standard action.
Of course, being an arcane caster, I may often have something to do with my standard action anyway. Plus, of course, I can buff myself up in pretty nasty ways in general, given time.

@Zen archer Flurry: I care to disagree. Manyshot requires BaB of +6 - and from Level 4 onward, Zen Dude can spend a Ki point to make 3 attacks, in one of the few ways stacking with haste. That also means less overkill potential, and more crit possibilities. Of course, Manyshot is free while the extra attack costs Ki, BUT, the Zennie HAS the potential for levels 4+5, Manyshot gets to shine at level 6+7, then Zennie gets yet another attack AND can still use the Ki-Point(which, as it happens, would have been interchangeably useable with Magus Arcana Pool points from VMC - so reasonably plentiful.)

@Armor+Zennie: Arcane Armor Mastery eats my swift action. Which I don't want, if I intend to be able to heal myself. Plus that just means I need to wear armor.
With the Monk Bonus, boosting my Charisma 18(to start, +4 level, +6 bonus progression, +1 lv4 monk bonus), and casting regular old Mage Armor(if I don't want to pick up Bracers of Armor), I'll have a sweet 14 AC(18 AC if using Bracers +8)...simply from armor+Monk Bonus, with no max Dex or investment(neither financial, feat-, nor action-wise) needed. Arcane Armor Mastery eats a swift action and can't quite get there.
@4 feats in 4 levels: The point is the package you get. Point Blank Master is 2 levels early for fighter, or 3 levels early compared to ranger. If you mention Level 5, then I'll raise you Level 6, where Zennie gets free Weapon Specialization and Improved Precise Shot(early entry) or Parting Shot(sans prereqs, sweet with the +20 feet base speed since it puts you out of charge range and gives you a free round of full attacking.) So we're at 7 Feats(I am counting Improved Unarmed here to flank and threaten in melee), with some early entries- as said in addition to what else you get(e.g. great saves all around). I suppose it's just a matter of how one personally values certain aspects or elements. We obviously have different priorities, there. *shrug*

@Erastil sense of humor: Luckily, thats not in the tenets. I think I'm good to go.
I am not much of a fan of going with pre-done interpretations of roles. So I'll take some liberties there trying to follow my reading. As said, if that differs from Rednals and he prefers a gruff guy that can't take a joke, I'll work on that...certainly, there would be plenty events possible in the AP that could have that effect...including news from home - Farod did have a theoretic love interest back in Gate Pass. If tragedy befell her, nobody could blame him for becoming a bit grumpy.

Oh, right, forgot about Ki. Forgot about that extra attack, which, sure, is nice.

You'd only be using Arcane Mastery in rounds you cast a spell—in which case you're not that concerned about smiting or flurrying. If you wanted high AC, the solution is Iroran Paladin, though that work great with being an archer.

Point Blank Master is one of those feats I've never seen anyone actually take except as a pre-req, but I guess that's something. And huh, I somehow missed a few of those bonus feats, it's a lot (Improved Unarmed isn't useful unless you need it for a feat chain though, just wear armor spikes)

I thought "gruff guy that can't take a joke" is Erastil's entire deal?

@Arcane Armor Mastery, again: As said, stuff like lay on hands is swift to self-heal. I suppose you could say it's about keeping options open. The less actions I need to expend to do things, the better.

@Point Blank Master: I suppose that's table variance explaining that one. That Fighter with Step up and Strike can really mess up a ranged guys day if he provokes, as can large creatures keeping you in range despite 5-foot stepping. Sure, there's other ways around that. But the plain simple "yeah, I'm flanked in 3 directions from enemies and I can still do my ranged full attack with no worries" has a very easy answer with Point Blank Master. As said, I fully expect that to be a thing varying from game to game. Meta-Dynamics, so to say. And how valuable the other available alternatives are to one's build.

@Improved Unarmed: True that armor spikes do the provoking/threaten part, too. But IUS is prereq for a couple feats I situationally like on characters. E.g. if I am convinced that I can maintain ranged combat most of the time, even picking up basic Deflect Arrows can be nice. That opposing archer who just tried to many-shot me? Sucks to be him. Plus it helps with bar fights/at night(I usually don't sleep in armor. While there are mechanical ways to do that, I feel that for most of my characters it's not what THEY would do.) :)

@Erastil's deal: Sure thing. But he's him, and me's me. You expect a child to follow his fathers advice...but going it's own way, not copying every step. And aren't we all but children compared to the mysterious wisdom of the gods? Except Caylen. He's simply drunk - and Arshea...well...er...pity she has Flail as Favored Weapon, not Bows...(and the second boon would compensate so nicely for loss of monk-AC-) "Haddim, do you mind if I pray to my Goddess together with Krystin?"...oh, I can see that going well for a day or two...

Don't forget that the GM's views often color how deities actually act in a game. 8D ...If you expect this to affect you, you're always free to ask about how the GM would likely play a given deity for a certain situation.

I thought thats what a Phylactery of Faithfulness was for? The meta-game-tool that tells you your GM's interpretation? ^_^

I am confident that things will work out, either way.

Getting rid of fatigue required about eight hours of genuine rest - something you wouldn't quite be able to get if you had to stand watch against troubles.

Just a clarification question: Does this mean you are part of the faction claiming you can't keep watch and rest? Sitting someplace and watching an entrance hardly is a strenous activity, even if you are not sleeping during that time...and unless something happens in which case rest is interrupted anyway-

Only trying to understand so we can properly plan around this, because then a page of spell knowledge(Keep Watch) would be handy to look for.
I am used to the "8 hours" including stuff like a watch shift, but then, I usually saw spell prep and set/break camp as something happening outside rest time.

Seems like Rednal's saying "you marched too hard yesterday, now you need to rest a few more hours"

Aye. I'm basically asking if this is because we are fatigued already, or will apply to every rest.
I realized that so far, in the Rednal-Games I was in, there either was no opportunity to rest, or no time pressure during resting - this is the first instance of "timed rest" so would like to know to what extent this handling is standard, or depending on being fatigued or exhausted.

Basically, you need eight hours of complete rest (i.e. sleep, or your race's equivalent) to recover from fatigue. o wo/ Keeping watch is a light activity, but still an activity.

(Incidentally, you CAN keep watch and still recover daily powers and such. It's the difference between "rest" and "complete rest".)

Thats good, then...if it's a special case based on fatigue wording => no worries here.

The exact text is "After 8 hours of complete rest, fatigued characters are no longer fatigued."

"Complete rest" is a phrase that's not actually used that often. ^^ So... this isn't something you'll have to worry about more than a handful of times, I think. (If it helps, think of it as part of the nastiness of the condition. o wo/ Aside from dropping your abilities a bit, it takes some extra time to cure without magic if you're in a dangerous area and need to stay on-guard. Basically, "extra rest afterwards" is the price you're paying to push yourself and travel further than you should in a day.)

Aye...that, or, the next time it comes up I'll simply touch myself a bit and feel refreshed afterwards.
I'm talking about the Paladin Mercy, of course. ^_^

It was a mental omission, I forgot the "complete" rest, and my mind tricked me into "8 hours of rest" as prerequisite to not be fatigued. Thanks for your patience.

Ah, right. A bearded devil sent by the inquisition trying to murder arcane casters, part of the army threatening my choosen home town, suggesting an alliance.

If either of you wants to talk with him, best speak up now, with the other one of you preventing me from pumping him full of arrows. I can stretch my Paladin-stuff(especially because no rebuilding took place yet), but from my perspective, that guy gets a resounding "screw you" as answer.

On the one hand: eww, a devil.

On the other hand: I do worship a goddess of redemption and all.

Ridley's definitely gonna want to at least hear this guy's story, gimme a bit to think up a response.

Alas, we're still a level away from everyone being able to cast Silence :/

Why would we want that right now?

A devil told us to shut the Fey up. If anything we should encourage them to keep singing...because I'm pretty certain that what the devil wants at best partially overlaps with what we want, so blindly following his advice seems counterintuitive.

Speculation time/Consideration: What if that fey girl was, for example, tricked by that devil, to steal some important artifact from the village. The others are simply after her to retrieve it and assume we are the outsiders that she stole it for. If we kill any of them, even in self-defence, that may cause their whole village to become hostile to us, locking us into doing as the devil wants, if there was another option to resolve the situation before.

I'd prefer if we try and fend off the assault without any casualties on either side...if that is still possible.

We can try, but it isn't Umbriak's first thought. Shout for him to take them alive and he'll try.

Aye, did do so, in game. I just thought I should add some OOC thoughts as well, as I can't well give a full explanation in a 6-second round in-game.

As Rednal knows, I'm afraid I'm heading a funeral. Umbriak will therefore hit things in the head more mechanically than normal, and if someone shouts that he needs to it less terminally he'll bludgeon them with the flat bits instead. Sorry about this.

No, I am sorry to hear about it. Best wishes to you. And do not worry about anything game-related.

Just a reminder that we're waiting on Farod, the only speaker-of-Sylvan.

Apologies. Matter of fact, after pointing out that I would translate, I wanted to give the two of you a chance to chip in, assuming you read the spoiler, trying not to "dominate" the conversation courtesy of being the only speaker of Sylvan.
I'll get a post up in time for tonights update.

Oh! I uh... missed that. Thanks!

Oh yes, sorry. I'd blame the horrible pain and large number of pain killers, but honestly it's more likely that I simply forgot.

Does anyone else understand the story the Fairy's telling? I'm real confused.

Roughly.

It seems Firegod came here, the Elven Hero with the Shrine dedicated did battle, using a wooden sword from a Dryads tree.
Fey supported by singing, which seems to manifest Firegod.
Elven Hero managed to pin Firegod to the bottom of the lake, but perished in the battle.
Fey keep singing to keep Firegod manifested, which keeps it trapped.

My deduction would be: If Fey stop singing, Firegod can break free because Manifestation is trapped physically by magic Dryad Woodsword.
Then they are all murdered by Firegod in retaliation.

At the same time, it seems Firegod physically is kept in some stasis, as long as the blade remains...which, btw, only Mortals can handle.
At least I would assume they would have tried to cut Firegods Manifestation into pieces at the bottom of the lake.

While trapped, Firegod is still conscious and, either through the Song or through the connection with the Dryad, has it's presence spread through the whole wood, causing the intense heat, the fiery templates, and all that.

But yeah, probably, we should try and get the Dryad to talk and learn more.
Elven Hero MAY have wanted to slay Firegod, and only pinned it when mortally wounded...or Elven Hero may have had a different plan to deal with it. Since Wooden Sword came from Dryad, Dryad may be aware of what was planned/how they intended to deal with Firegod.

Why Firey came here in the first place and needed to be trapped? No idea.

We'll gather info about the hero, the sword, the song, the Dryad and Captain Napalmpants in the village. I suspect if we miss something we might make the bad choice. Not sure if that's saving or killing the fiery little so-and-so.

Hopefully we level up soon-ish, and can spend some time learning Sylvan ourselves, otherwise Farod is going to have to handle info gathering duties...

*Amused look* Actually, you WILL be leveling pretty much as soon as you actually head to the village, so you might want to start working on that and be ready to post your summaries...

Hopefully we level up soon-ish, and can spend some time learning Sylvan ourselves, otherwise Farod is going to have to handle info gathering duties...

Hey, that sounds like it's a bad thing :P

Ah. So we could potentially negotiate a deal where the firegod *leaves* after we remove the sword *without* killing everyone, but only if we can find a way to bind it to its word.

Or something.

Before we allow it to leave without killing people, I would like to learn WHY it was trapped in the first place.
I'm rather certain it was not that Elven Hero had a bad day and decided to pin Captain Napalm to the bottom of a lake for fun and giggles.
I mean, "Yeah well, we accidently re-started the doomsday clock of the world causing every living being to die within weeks, but hey, we DID save some Fey in a village temporarily-" does not look good on our resumees even if we manage to plane-shift before the Meteor hits.

Well sure, it seemed suggested that the thing came to the forest to kill the fey, no?

I'm just not keen on fighting an ancient god at the bottom of a lake.

Meanwhile, here's my level-in-advance:

Feat:
-Combat Expertise

Ability score:
-Dex +1

Rogue:
-Divine Purpose (+1 to will/fort)
-Rogue Talent: Weapon Training: Heavy Shield Bash (this will uh, make sense eventually, uh...)

Oracle:

-1st-level spells:
>>Identify (spirit guide bonus)
>>Protection from Forest Fire or whatever (replace Color Spray)

-2nd-level spells:
>>Spider Climb (mystery bonus via possesse)
>>Tongues (spirit guide bonus)
>>Cure Moderate Wounds (alignment bonus)
>>Silence

...so uh I guess I get tongues then...

10 skills (8 rogue + 2 int)
uhhh
Sense +1
Disable +1
Perception +1
Bluff +1
Diplo +1
Stealth +1
Religion +1
Arcana +1
Planes +1
UMD +1

2 campaign skills
Perform +1
Jewelry +1

2 background skills
Appraise +1
Sleight +1

I assume there's no time to casually retrain those first couple levels, so will have to proceed on the original track-

Paladin(Tempered Champion, Hospitaler)/Sorcerer(Tattoed Sorcerer(Draconic))

Feat: Eldritch Heritage(Orc): Touch of Rage (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it a morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
(Not that I would use that much...but assuming I get to retrain eventually and picking up something like Thoughness meanwhile would feel gamey...I'll simply stick with the original build until I run into the road block that is Dragon Disciple)

Ability score: Cha +1

Paladin:
-Smite Evil(1/day)
-Aura of Good
-Detect Evil (at will)
Class Skills: Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge(Nobility),

Sorcerer:
Known Spells:
+1 Cantrip: Ray of Frost
+1 First Level Spell(Human FCB): Stand the Heat
+1 Second Level Spell: Arrow Eruption

Spells per Day:
+1 First Level
+3 Second Level

4 normal skill points(2 (class) + 2 int)
+1 Perception
+1 Use Magic Device
+1 Diplomacy
+1 Spellcraft

2 campaign skill points
+1 Craft(Tattoo)
+1 Profession(Hunter)

2 background skill points
+1 Knowledge(Nobility)
+1 Appraise

Retraining follows the normal rules for doing so. o wo b Which means "you just need to get somewhere safe for long enough to do it".

Aye. I am simply assuming that at some point in the AP, we will be in a safe place and have time to do so. Hopefully while still in the single-digit levels. *shrug*

Well, I certainly don't think you'd be into double digits before you can change. XD The middle of a fire forest just does not make sense as a place to retrain, given your, uh, limits on time here. I do try to be easy on that sort of thing, though, because nobody should have to play a character they're genuinely unhappy with.

Ah, no worries. I am not "unhappy". It was just that I misunderstood that Dragon Disciple part, and would prefer to swap over to the new build plan before reaching that point and needing to "improvise", plus it takes time and money, more, the longer it takes, as there's stuff that needs retraining(e.g. Level 4 Feat in the new build would be Weapon Focus as prereq for Weapon Specialization...but since I already have Weapon Focus as static Bonus from Monk, I can't pick it up now - and will need to retrain it later, too.)

So, yeah, no hurry, I am having fun, I just won't be able to do things I wanted to do originally and would prefer fixing things sooner over later - but I am genuinely happy. sorry if I gave a wrong impression - orz

Meanwhile, I need weapon focus in a weapon I don't currently own to get Outslug Style later, so uh... yep.

See previous levelup post! I am, uh, unskilled in history, though, and can't actually make that check.

Yeah, that was mostly for Umbriak, who's... uh... been distracted with things lately. You and Farod look good. o wo/

I'm not distracted! Sure, I've lost yet another loved one, and sure, my lower back exploded like Zon-Kuthon had taken up personal residence in my spine and made my sciatic nerve into a lute, and sure, I've got enough pain killers swimming in my system to kill a Titan but, uh...

...what was I saying?

I'll try and get Umbriak (And Shalluk) updated tonight. Sorry for being slow.

And Umbriak, oddly, can do history. I'll post once I update.

General
+1 BAB, CMB and CMD
+1 Fortitude and Will
+14 HP.
Bonus Feat - Improved Weapon of the Chosen - Greater Transformation
Automatic Bonus Progression - +1 Magic Weapon, +1 Armour
Strength +1

Barbarian
Damage Recuction 2/-
Rage Power - Intimidating Glare
+3 Rounds of Rage

Warpriest
Channel Energy
Sacred Weapon +1
Magic - Restore Soul

Skills - Diplomacy +1, Perception +1, Sense Motive +1, Intimidate +1
Bonus Skills - Linguistics +1 (Sylvan), Knowledge (History) +1

Sorry to hear it, Umbriak.
May every wound that heals over time do so a bit faster for you, and those things that grow worse do so slower.

Farod is updated. Do we get to rest in the villlage? Or are the new toys still offline, for the time being.