Eh, Ridley just suggested the river because they're made of fire, so...
Well, if diplomacy fails, we can always splash them with water, giggling like a bunch of teenage girls while hiding in the deep part of the river. *shrug*
Umbriak in a one piece bathing suit is a sight for the brave and the mad.
Or rather, the brave AND mad(as in, both at the same time). San-Check?
Just kidding, I'm certain he would look splendid. But do Dwarven girls need to cover their chest area? I expected their beard to take care of that, and them wearing the same kind of chainmail boxers as their male counterparts...
Oooh, just over the line...
Hm...if one polymorphs a Unicorn into a young lady...would she be willing to be courted? Damn, no time to daydream...
Farod, you nasty!
Farod, you nasty!
Hm...if one polymorphs a Unicorn into a young lady...would she be willing to be courted? Damn, no time to daydream...
Wouldn't want to act in a way contradicting my nature. *whistles innocently*
What you're proposing doesn't sound especially natural...
I guess that means my nature isn't very natural, then, is it?
I'm a half-breed myself. Don't judge...how do you think centaurs are made?
It's when a heroic half-orc father and a loving unicorn mother...anyway, it will take a time before I have access to polymorph and charm monster.
As an evolutionary geneticist, I can confidently say that successfully combining the DNA of a half-orc and unicorn would not give you a centaur.
...although maybe that's where gibbering mouthers come from...
As an evolutionary geneticist, are you familiar with the impact of crossbreeding while under the effect of magic of the polymorph subschool of transmutation spells?
Err, ever seen a chromosome map of wheat? Because this is a pretty reasonable explanation of where that whole mess came from. Then there's things like polyploid rats, desert cats, or the whole ridiculous mess that is reproduction in Tetrahymena (Greek: "four weddings")
Like, while I don't support the concept of Intelligent Design ("a wizard did it") I am a big fan of the theory of Unintelligent Design ("a really drunk wizard did it")
But, we are talking about the involvement of magic.
A Scenario involving Farod is quite literally "A wizard did it" even if the job description says Sorcerer, because they share their spell list. The only difference is that Farod is more handsome with a more charming personality, and less likely to reflect on the possible future implications.
As in, traditional rules don't apply, and both intelligent and unintelligent design have a chance, depending on wether I'm drunk when I mess with nature and the universe.
As mentioned, polymorph. Transmutation spells. If you never analyzed the chromosome map of wheat turned into a housecat, then this is beyond your expertise! Wether Thessalar really did make Owlbears originally or not does not matter(plus there's Bearowls, too). The fact that hybrids CAN be made using magic counts.
Same as certain outsiders are only fertile for crossbreeding if they choose to. If you impregnate an Succubus, that's her doing, not the virility of your seed. Magic!
Now, if Rednal decides he does not want little Quarter-Orc/Half-Unicorn Centauric Magical Hybrids galopping around, whinnying as they enjoy their day on the steppes, thats perfectly fair, but says nothing about the theoretical possibilities magic opens up when it comes to that sort of thing.
You know, this is rare, but...
*Slowly backs away in terror.*
"I made popped corn!"
*adjusts 3-D glasses and watches on in delight*
Err, I guess centaurs are *monstrous* humanoids. You'd probably wind up with something more like this, though—magic doesn't mysteriously give two basal quadrupeds a hexapodal body structure.
Now, if you shifted into a *girallon,* maybe...
But honestly, my first guess would be that polymorph doesn't change your DNA (or at least, anything leaving your person reverts to its original form, and reproductive cells, eggs, etc. are explicitly not part of your person according to science). Which makes dragons' ability to reproduce with anything genetically troubling, until you remember that half-dragon gelatinous cubes, invisible stalkers, earth elementals, kolaryut, shambling mounds, worms that walk, and half-troll half-fiend half-celestial half-janni lycanthrope androids are all 100% allowed by the rules, and then decide that maybe dragon reproduction is *innately* an act of magic, and not genetics.
Hmm. Was that in 3.5, or was it added in PF?
Fair enough!
#themoreyouknow
Why would I not get a hexapodal body structure?
I am absolutely certain that magic can help, there.
Also, even alter self as a Level 2 spell allows me to alter my gender AND race.(and, on permanent application e.g. using a cursed girdle of gender swapping, would definitely have long-lasting effects on the physical body/hormonal balance/etc)
If you look on what's "permanent" on "Polymorph any object", then I could polymorph a male storm giant into a female halfling. Permanently.(same kingdom, same class(humanoids), same(or lower) intelligence)
Of course, I could also transform an ogre into a horse, permanently.(same size, intelligence, kingdom) Then have my int 6 mount breed with the horsified ogre!
Magic!
What if I use clones or simulacrums? Or use Summoner Evolutions?
Page 49 and 50 have the tables on conception, gestation and crossbreeding. Half-Orc and Centaur is a no, but most Fey are fair game.(and Humans have a "maybe" with Centaurs, and since pathfinder half-orcs count as Humans, that could well work for Unicorns, too(despite the type difference...but she would be polymorphed into human for the conception) :P
All the polymorphs you mention maintain a quadrupedal body structure. Like I said, if you want to try for a hexapodal centaur offspring, you'd need to start as something with six limbs like a girallon, because unicorn+orc/unicorn is NOT gonna give you the right number/orientation of somites for your babies to grow six limbs. (Discounting the bigger problem of binding proteins making it basically impossible for any eggs to actually get fertilized; there's nothing that suggests polymorphed creatures can birth viable offspring).
And I've read BoEF too, but it's not exactly canon in any edition; and Fey, like dragons, probably just have a magical reproduction cycle. Centaurs, in mythology at least, are pretty into relations with humans (hence the "maybe") but unable to breed with them; in some stories, they can reproduce with regular horses, but usually they're sterile and semi-immortal.
Of course, the biggest problem with hybridization in mammals (why close species hybrids are unable to reproduce further) is due to incompatible piRNA/transposon portfolios; since these are encoded in junk DNA and have no actual effect on physiology, it's incredibly unlikely that a polymorph spell could allow the resulting zygote to survive the catastrophic transposon cascade following conception without having innate magical powers right there in its DNA (such as in the case of half-dragons/fey).
Meanwhile, uh..........
Oh wait umm
While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature.
Since polymorph only gives you the abilities listed in the spell, if "fecundity" counts as an "ability" or "power," you don't get it.
If Fecundity counts as "ability" or "power", then what about eyesight? Or digestion? What about breathing?
If it's just about Hexapodal, that's no worry. A Girallon is the same type(magical beast) as well. Could also go with a Hound of Tindalos. Or pick up something with 8 legs. Sleipnir, maybe? Also a magical beast. And 8 legs + 4 legs should make 6 legs, right? And I won't even have to morph her.
But why make it complicated, we simply both morph into a Centaur.
But honestly, the main problem I have with your argumentation is that you are making my point for me.
I maintain that I use magic to produce a crossbreed.
You are telling me that it's not possible without magic.
Duh?
Also, if there IS canon on species crossbreeding in pathfinder, do tell me where to find it...I know BoEF is not, but real world science is hardly "more canon" when it comes to mythical creatures(especially in a world with half-dragons, half-celestials, half-fiends, aasimars, tieflings, geniekind/janni, half-orcs, android clerics, living gods, and a statted out cthulhu, among other things) - oh, also, raise dead, resurrection, true resurrection, and reincarnate? They should not work, either. I mean, the existance of the recipient ended.
As for turning hexapodal on unicorn/half-orc fusion on non-magical recombination(however you imagine THAT working), you know nothing about the triple-helix structure of Unicorns, and how breaking them up and recombining them to fuse with the structure of half-orcs(fusing the primal forced adaptation aspect of their orc genetic forefathers with the human flexible mutation aspect prevalent in golarion humans) leads to a hexapodal design in 90% of cases. I got the papers right here. If you can't source me a complete mapping of the unicorn genome, I'll have to say that I won't blindly believe your analysis.
I mean, honestly. We are talking about a fantasy game with unicorns and centaurs. I'm saying "I use magic" to invoke "A wizard did it" and you are arguing real-life genetics?
Short version? I cast "Wish" and make it happen.
No, you're saying you want to use one specific spell (with specific limitations) to create a non-magical creature, in a process I maintain would require a large quantity of additional magic.
Also pretty sure unicorn horn is a single helix. Although their genome is only partially sequenced.
Yeah, Limited Wish would probably be good enough, or Polymorph Any Object. I'm just saying you can't do it with a regular polymorph.
I implied that I intended to transform the unicorn for a specific purpose. Then, as JOKE, added reverse centaurs into the discussion, to make clear that it was not serious.
I maintain that any spell responsible for successfull crossbreeding will fall under the Transmutation school, and I'm almost certain it will have a polymorph modifier.
With the amount of crossbreeds that ARE canon, it seems quite reasonable to work without needing high-level magic, or the populations would not be maintainable except in niche biomes.
That's only a partial sequence, and I was referring to the whole unicorn, not just the horn. You know, the interwoven magical strand that also generates the permanent magic circle against evil.
I did bring up Polymorph any Object before. What I am saying is that it will be polymorph subtype of Transmutation school. Not specifically the spell polymorph, or baleful polymorph.
As for sarcasm: It is hard to transmit meaning in written expression. Especially across language barriers. That is why I attempt to be explicit when it comes to sarcasm/tongue-in-cheek-humour. I do not want this kind of centaur babies with a unicorn I just met.
As such, yes, I felt that you were arguing back for arguments sake, and the sarcasm was lost on me. Especially because certain statements you brought up are reasonable(such as about the hexapodal body structure...which I did not worry about before because it was only a joke, which you seemed to try your best to disassemble - Something I took offense to because it seemed needlessly antagonistic to me(due to not seeing the reason/sarcasm.). Apologies if I misinterpreted.
If Limited Wish is indeed good enough, then yay for Blood Money+Limited Wish=>Crossbreeding+Blood Money+Limited Wish=>Restoration) I'm a sorcerer, I got slots to spare and can do that all day long, ladies.
I feel like I should note this unicorn is male. o wo
...
Also, I'm probably not going to allow Blood Money in this game.
I feel like I should note this unicorn is male. o wo
"Not after I am done with my magics!"
@Blood Money: Fire enough...I never do these shenanigans, mostly used it for something like True Seeing or Stoneskin(which I honestly feel should not have costly material components given the limitations/short duration)
But never were planned in this build...component-based spells are too...situational for my taste, with sorcerers.
Well, yeah. I'm not going to joke-argue with arguments that are *wrong*, that just seems lazy.
I'd really think Conjuration, more than Transmutation, is necessary for any sort of weird interspecies hybrid; essentially, this is all going to fall under advanced cellular healing or creation.
But "wrong" arguments can be just as amusing, and show more clearly that you are not serious. No one said you need to use "stupid" arguments. You can be witty and nonsensical at the same time. :)
I'll stick with Transmutation. Stuff is there, the creation process should be based on what both partners contribute. In my eyes, it's more a question of altering the system interfaces to be compatible without touching the genetic content. It's probably also why I'd go with polymorph, assuming that it provides a shortcut to compatible reproductive elements allowing them to interface, and once the recombination has taken place, the polymorph can be removed, and the female will have a fertilized egg(or whats adequate) with infused DNA of the other partner, if the genetic baseline is not rewritten on polymorph.
Or you could just offer me a plate of sunny-side up eggs and something might happen. 8D
If I find a creature laying worthy eggs, I might just do that.
If only to see what will happen.
In all fairness, that's also a headsup for Ridley and Umbriak. If we run into a Platinum Dragon 3 years from now, don't say I didn't warn you if I aquire it's eggs and prepare a divine dish(and an omelette for breakfast) - (and, most likely, an atonement...)
...I shall consider the moral quandary of eating the unhatched young of a sentient creature VS the potential deliciousness.
Yeah, pretty sure my religion requires that I keep you from eating those things.
But thats what Atonement exists for!
Fine, I'm certain to find some inherently evil creatures we'd need to cleanse anyway who lay delicious eggs. Yidhra swings both ways, so plan "divine sunny-side-up eggs" can still commence.
Sorry, nope, goddess of forgiveness. You're gonna have to rely on the eggs of unintelligent creatures (e.g. basilisks should be fine)
Hence why "inherently evil". Quite a couple creatures are by definition irredeemable without SERIOUSLY going out of your way to aquire means to do so. Think undead, or outsiders, locked into their alignment with no choice. Just need to find something that lays eggs and has CR 15+.
Besides, you're an Oracle, you're infused with power regardless of wether you want to or not - if Sarenrae takes offense with my actions, which are simply taken to protect the common folk and the rural community who would suffer from these beasts, she can take it up with Erastil ^_^
Eh, but I don't think those things lay eggs. And I'm a VMC cleric, which means that if I break alignment, I lose casting from *all* classes.
Right, forgot your VMC. Will be fun. Because I'm not certain OldMcGruffy and Sarry will see eye to deadeye on all matters. You are bound as Cleric, I'll be bound as Paladin, and Umbriak as Warpriest of Angradd. Fun times! ^_^
Phylacteries of Faithfulness for everybody! *imagine a mock Oprah voice*
Err... do you have a deity, or an alignment? Because Umbriak and I both picked good ol' fire gods, which at least superficially fits with the campaign title.
If there was a necessity to go pick up deities with fire in their portfolio, I seem to have missed it. I assumed the original plan of a fire-based draconic bloodline would superficially fit sufficiently.
Of course, with Dragon Disciple gone, that DOES leave a void as there's no cheesy ties to the theme left, after the re-training.
Regardless, having strong bonds with Gate Pass(yay community), and due to the necessity of a ranged combatant for the party composition, Erastil it was. Deity, holy symbol, lawful good, the whole deal.
(Hospitaler and Tempered Champion...no vow of chastity! And eggs are spoils of the hunt if you have to slay their parents!)
No necessity, just coincidence
Do we have any evidence that there's *anything* upriver? Is that where Indomitability wanted us to go?
Nope, Indomitability said something about the Lake, as well, being trapped there or something. So both the Fey Village and indomitability should be downriver.
I kind of thought we're at the source of the river here, with the unicorn? If not, we MAY be able to follow the river outside the forest, and try to flee...but even if there's no failsafe against that, we would probably bypass a lot of content that way, and not "fix" the forest, leaving everybody here suffering=>not an option :)
Also, we're basically a party of discount paladins. I can't see us deciding *not* to try and help the forest, at least a little bit.
Aye, thats what I meant. On the rebuild, I'll probably get rid of the Zen Archer part and go straight Paladin.
If I can make the AC work out. Guess it's a good time to ask Rednal if Psychic Bloodline is allowed(I think it's even PFS-legal, but I suppose I should still ask)?
Out of curiosity, why full paladin? Because it fits better with your concept of the character? I get that smite works best at full levels, but other than that, Zen Archer is usually a more powerful option (though I guess the bonus campaign feats make ranged paladin a much more viable option)