Fall of the Void (Inactive)

Game Master Vinsomner

Galactic Map
Sector: Centuria Sector Therian Nebula
Solar System: CS-X102
Planet: III

Space Battle Map


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Okay so I think I'm addicted to GMing, and I have this particular sci-fi itch I want to scratch with the recent boost in sci-fi content in video games and movies.

I'm still trying to decide upon a system to use, might actually go with a modified Pathfinder rules or another ruleset entirely. I'm open to suggestions.

So here's the basic ground premise below:(Haven't went over with a fine-tooth comb yet)

Story Background:

Wars ravage the known galaxy, ripping apart planets and solar systems. Governments and corporations alike battling eachother for the newly discovered alien artifacts of a superier race long gone. Control of the artifacts give their ownings unparralled power and technological advancements that were only dreams of.

These alien artifacts are littered throughout the galaxy and thus causing the corporations and governments to expand, to war, to conquer for these things. The destabilization of peace has wrought a new age of mercenaries and pirates. Lawless space growing between the borders of once great nations and ideas. All now torn apart for the quest for the ultimate power and technology. The new age has arrived.

This story will begin in the Centuria Sector near a planet known as LL-001. The hired guns have just confirmed the transfer of agreed upon credits. Their ship's engines flare to live as they begin their orbit run.

They were not alone, thousands of lights come to life as one after another engines started. Ships of all sizes and shapes were converging on the planet before them. It was a glorious sight... a glorious sight to the beginning of the battle for this once forgotten planet.

It was an important battle, a lot of money was being tossed around and a lot of bodies were hired for this precious little planet. It was discovered that this planet held a massive alien structure that corporation Xul tried to lay claim to. The ones that were paying you, Leinder Hulls, wanted it for themselves and are making a move.

The importance of this battle could be immediately seen from just the roster of ships present, particular one of them. The dreadnaught Liara which belonged to the Black Wolf's, the largest and disputably the most powerful mercenary outfit in the Centuria Sector.

You can expect to be apart of a team of players who share a large ship together, acting under a mercenary or pirate flag of your own choosing. You will experience espionage, space battles, large scale warfare, skirmishes and the lawlessness of space!

This campaign would be supplemented with detailed galactic maps and allow a deep and rich story experience with freedom to explore, fight and conquer. Images will be supplied to help give you visual appearances of ships, mech suits and such! (Reference material, not my own designs).

Again I am open to system suggestions, and I am able to acquire the necessary books if needed.

Races and those details can be decided once we settle upon a system to use.

Thoughts? Questions? Suggestions? Make them below!


Sounds interesting.

If you are going with Pathfinder, "Distant Worlds" is a useful supplement, though it deals primarily with terrestrial exploration of other worlds rather than widespread space travel.


If you're interested in other rulesets, you might want to try D20 Modern or Mutants and Masterminds.


If you want to try Pathfinder, you may look into the stuff from the Santiago AP by EN Publishing. It varies in just how useful and well-designed it is in my opinion, but it's got some great suggestions and neat ideas. It's also free to get the Player's Guide, Campaign Guide, and even the first book as PDFs in Paizo's store, so there's that.


Well... this is a Pathfinder place... and as people say, there is support for Sci-Fi Pathfinder. Including the Tech Stuff (which isn't THAT good) and 3rd Party Material, like Legendary Planet.


Honestly, most of the stuff to make pathfinder play like scifi is badly written. The only reason to use it would be that people around here are used to playing pathfinder, so you'd garner more interest like that.

You're probably better off with something like one of the star wars systems, I personally like the d20 Star Wars Revised Edition, but that might just be me. You can just cut out the force stuff, and it plays like a charm.

d20 modern is serviceable as well, and I believe the rules are availible for free online, even the Future stuff. The rules printed there for space battles aren't very expansive, however. SWd20RE does that better.


You've got my interest. My suggestion for system would be the Cortex System used for Serenity and Battlestar Galactica by Margaret Weiss Productions. It avoids classes and levels, though archetypes can easily be created. Beginning characters can start as Novices, Veterans, or Elites, which sets how many attribute, skill, and traits you have to create your character. Admittedly, they do have a few derived stats, which is the only knock for me.


I agree pretty completely that I don't like using PF (or by extension any d20 system I've seen) for modern or sci-fi games. It's doable at times, but I've always felt that class-based rulesets don't do well to capture modern or futuristic heroes. To that end, even the Star Wars d20 systems aren't my favorites.

A pretty easy and nice system to use is Savage Worlds, which is designed to be a generic system you can use for all kinds of games. There's even a setting line for sci-fi stuff--The Last Parsec. Most of it is over at PEG's site, but you can find a lot here too.

I'm personally not a big fan of the Cortex System or the Serenity/Firefly RPGs, but that's just me.


I've considered d20 Modern as I have the books and such so that is on the table.

With the mention of well this being a Pathfinder place, using an augmented Pathfinder rule-set for future style games. The only issue here is as @The Dragon mentioned, there is difficulty finding well written rulesets that make use of pathfinders style of play.

That's the other issue, trying to find a good sci-fi system period.

I have contemplated the new revised star wars ruleset, and it looks interesting. Cortex System's though seems to be interesting, so I'm taking a look at that as well.

I've been told Savage Worlds before, and there are a lot of players who play that ruleset where I live.

When it comes down to it, I can adapt to any ruleset. It really comes down to the group is what I'm thinking. So if I get enough interest and the players agree upon a ruleset, that's what we would end up with. Though narrowing the choices would be handy.

So far we have:
Savage Worlds
Star Wars Revised
Cortex Systems
d20 Modern


I am in agreement with Loup Blanc that class-level based mechanics don't capture modern/future heroes very well. How skilled one is always seems to be based on ones training in modern/future stories more than their actual profession, though that can play a huge part in a character's capabilities.


If you want to consider a d100 system, then Eclipse Phase or WH40k offer great stuff for space exploration and battle. EP phase goes into much greater detail on the exploration side and less heavy on the Ship side as people don't travel far by ship. WH40k picks up that slack with plenty of examples and stats to create/modify ships of various class. More fluff than rules. EP really captures the economy you described more than WH40k, could be good read for ideas and it's all free for download under creative licenses. Character classes in EP are just background and starting faction, with the player able to decide what skills and traits they want freely. WH40k is different and offers some general classes and numerous alternate ranks suitable to your setting.

Anyways, just my 2 cents from my experience. Don't play PF, but been on paizo for more than a year now. A number of us here that play other games besides PF. It's a great place for PBP.


I'd second Deko's suggestion of Mutants and Masterminds. Its a points based system with Super Heroes in mind by the core assumptions, but has a lot of resources out there for alternative settings. Being point based and classless makes it extremely flexible.

Second edition is close enough to Pathfinder core mechanics that most new players I've seen make the transition pretty easily. There is a 3rd edition that is more recent, but it ditches the OGL, and as a result loses a lot of the familiar terms Pathfinder and 3.5 players will be familiar with.


I second Rigor MM would be good with a low spend and non linked powers.

Traveller T20 could be good


I have never played MM, but have perused the books. It does have potential. Though it doesn't have true levels per se, it still has them with the Power Levels. Admittedly, MM does allow for the broad types of characters that suit sci-fi games.

I have and have played a few sessions of Eclipse Phase. System is bit clunky for me, though the rolling 11,22,33,44,55, etc. does make for a pretty cool "something cool happens" mechanic.


Power Levels are somewhat like Class Levels in Pathfinder, in that they are a bit of a balancing mechanic. A Power Level of 10 basically means, you can be as powerful as a 10th level character in any given aspect (it's not exactly a fair comparison though, as PL 10 is likely far more powerful than a level 10 character, but this is just an example).

You have a given number of points to spend, and no more. You can spend them to say, "I want to be a top notch PL 10 gunslinger." Great, but that takes a bunch of your points. If you then also want to be a top notch star-pilot, and a top notch doctor, and a top notch inventor, you are going to run out of points very quickly. It is still a classless system, but you then get to prioritize what you want your character to be able to do. I find it refreshingly flexible, and versatile, and the Power Level vs. spendable Power Points is quite effective at self-limiting what a character can do, and how many things they can be good at.


I saw some right-ups for DC heroes with 2nd ED MM. They have Green Arrow as PL10, Batman as PL12, The Flash as PL14, Superman as PL15, Jim Gordon as PL5. So, it does grant a lot of flexibility in character focus. And it does use much of the same terminology: Same six attributes, skills set-up the same, as well as saves [with Toughness added as a fourth save], feats as well.


So, Vinsomner, what is the verdict? Which system shall we use to use for our various Galactic Privateering and Mayhem?


I've got it down to two systems:

Savage Worlds or Mutants and Masterminds.

Having a bit of difficulty deciding between the two but they both seem to look pretty solid, though MM is getting more of a favorable lean to as it's already shown that their is few that suggest it.

The lean to MM is more because of terminology and it seems pretty easy to adjust to, especially for regular Pathfinder players.

What do you say? MM sound good?


I'd vote 'Yay', obviously, as I was one of those gunning for it.

Since you're referencing the 3.5/Pathfinder similarity as part of your decision, I imagine you're thinking 2nd edition. As I said, there is a 3rd edition out there, but 2e is not all that old, and I for one actually like it a bit better than 3.

3e is its own game, that while you can see how it evolved out of 3.5, uses none of the same terms. Basically, in 3e Ability scores are gone and instead you just pay for the bonuses (Such as Agility +3 instead of Dexterity 16). It's not that much of a leap from Pathfinder to 3e, but you basically have to learn how 2e works in the process, and then progress from there to 3e.

Sticking with 2e is probably much simpler.


@Rigor Rictus: Ay, that would be what I'm thinking. It'll just be easier transition on everyone to go to the 2e rather then going to the third edition. Newer isn't always better right?


I'm ok with MM, 2E or 3E. Admittedly, 2E will have less of learning curve. The question is, what's the Power Level? And what are the power restrictions?


That my friend, I would have to dig in for a day or two and come up with a game plan. I would start a recruitment but you kinda need all those details first!

Will everyone be able to get their hands on the required material in the mean time? I'll post here shortly, though I'm going to say... for powerlevel might be in the mid range (like 5ish, batman style) The players should be really good, they excel at what they do but their still mortal. I like the games where the players still need to be careful to survive the adventures.

I'll get more details in here asap.


I have the 2E and 3E source material, so I'm good to go.


Likewise, I have 2e, and 3e is available through their SRD (the rules are public/OGL), similar to Pathfinder in that regard.

5 is very low in terms of PL, just to let you know. More like Commishoner Gordan than Batman... I don't have the books with me at the moment, but I think the breakdown is kinda like this:

PL 5: True to life professional. Cop, pilot, soldier, MMA or Martial Arts type. Something like that.
PL 6: Elite level. SWAT, Green Beret, martial arts master.
PL 7: Peak human, low super, Urban Fantasy, Kung Fu movie. Navy Seals, James Bond, the Bride, etc...
PL 8: Street Level Super, enhanced human. Master Chief, 6 Million Dollar man, Luke Cage, rookie spiderman.
PL 10: typical super hero.
PL 12: veteran super hero: Batman, Green Lantern, Iron Man, Captain America,
PL 15: world ending super villain. Apocalypse, Darkseid, Thanos.

Hopefully that kind of gives you an idea. For a super hero game, the default suggestion is PL 10. That basically assumes a rookie but full powered group like the Avengers (just starting out), or maybe a Veteran street level hero like spiderman or Green Arrow.

If you are thinking Firefly, PL 5-6 is probably good. If you want Star Wars, I'd probably go 7-8ish.


Thank you for the clarification Rigor. I was trying to find a breakdown like that. Though if were going with Mercenaries/Pirates. Power level would be around PL 5 - 6. It would fit the idea that the crew has some experience, have seen some stuff, but they are still considered to be fresh to the fight. Room to grow and become stronger.

For power restrictions, I'm still trying to figure that out. Though I want to make it more about the sci-fi and less about supernatural powers. If anyone has recommendations as to what power restrictions would be will be appreciated.


Powers could always be set as tech toys.


I don't really know MM at all but I could get my hands on any necessary material. Does it have a lot of splat books or anything besides core rule book?

Needless to say I am extremely interested


I would recommend evaluating each power and capping those you permit to rank 3. I also say that if allow any sort of external ability, such heat vision, it is only available as a device or some sort of cyberbetic enhancement.


Sach wrote:

I don't really know MM at all but I could get my hands on any necessary material. Does it have a lot of splat books or anything besides core rule book?

Needless to say I am extremely interested

The only one I'd recommend you need is Ultimate Power; it expands on all the powers listed in the core book, and has more detailed instructions on how to assemble different effects to create new custom powers. Of course, in this game, which is likely to be less focused on powers this book might be less useful than usual (though it does have a bigger and better explanation regarding Devices that provide powers).


Hmm, wish I'd seen this before MM was picked. I'd have suggested GURPS. Yes, I know, but GURPS space is actually one of the best written books ever (3rd edition, or 4th edition, although I have a preference for 3rd). :) Good luck Vinsomner


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

I'd love to play in a Sci Fi game, but am a bit puzzled as to why M&M was picked. Not that I don't like the game... I do, but why pick a system that you have to do a lot of converting for... and that's designed for Superpower games, when there are so many good Sci-fi designed games out there. If the system is what sells you then I'd suggest True 20 space instead of having to do all the redesign.

Fading Suns
d20 Future
Dawning Star
Ashen Start
Savage Worlds (Many Sci Fi settings available, as well as SW Space)
Harp Sci-fi
Spacemaster
Traveller
Starblazer Adventures
Starwars

Etc... Etc...
Etc...


I'd like to confess interest. Space pirates are fun as all get out. I can probably get my hands on whatever material I need to find.


Cool MM E2 power level 5-6
If we get around to outlining PCs would really like to play an Telepathic mind powers Alien, Think Jedi/Volcan who is not keen on tech or guns, like to use organic tech over metal tech.


As MDT and Scranford brought up, I am realizing there is a good amount of work to convert the powers into something that would make sense into the game world. Despite the ease of terminology between Pathfinder and MM I'm beginning to think it may have not been an ideal choice. I am reevaluating my options again as I don't want to have to convert all the powers and set up proper equipment. (Don't have the time to do a lot of converting or placeholding.)

So back to the drawing board once more.


I think it would be easier than you might imagine; M&M is already set up with rules for vehicles, super tech, cybernetics, and faster than light travel. Pretty much all you'd have to do is set the ground rules and come up with the setting. Add to that that the powers system allows no end of variation when it comes to aliens and monsters. I think it would work great!

If you do decide to go another way, I'll still be interested, but my ability to submit a character will depend on my access tote materials. I haven't even heard of a few of those systems, let alone have the books.


D20 Future or Star Wars (revised or Saga).


GURPS - D6 system, easy to learn, tons of resources on the net for it, books are easy to get (especially 3rd edition).


D20 Future lacks tech fully for SF at the moment I feel.

Traveller T20 is ok but your locked in with its way of doing tach.

GURPS is hard if you don't have the full plat books, and there are loads of SF GURPS books including Traveller d6 and d20, so take your pick.
just dont expect players to have them.

I would go with a system that is

1: has Online rules
and/or
2: Is In Herolab


Honestly, if you want to limit powers, either disallow them all and stick with equipment/skills (my M&M character is doing that, literally the only normal human in the game lol) or stick to the Device power and maybe a couple others depending on what you want the setting to be.


I am in disagreement with GURPS. Not fons of its mechanics.

With systems that have been mentioned here are my the top 3 for me:

1. Cortex
2. d20 Future
3. Savage Worlds


Links to systems on line

D20 Modern Pathfinder

The future stuff just tags on.

traveller-srd
There are other sites but this gives you an idea.

D20 Heros aka MM
Its 3E but we would have a common link for all - most powers and Tech ok

Any others guys, GURPS online link?? and the rest

My vote now gos to
1: Pathfinder D20 Modern/future
Simple, known and online
2: Traveller T20
Kind of ok
3: Cyberpunk 2020 d20 RPG
just to add stuff

.


d20 Modern is doable, as long as we use the PF updates that GM_Panic linked to. I'm not a fan of the base game from 3rd edition, but it's got some updates in that to make it better.

I still think Savage Worlds is one of the best systems out there for this kind of thing; unfortunately not free online, but it is a good game and worth the money.

I'm not personally a big fan of Mutants and Masterminds or GURPS, so if you really want to do that, I'll probably bow out.


They have a d20 Future srd. The PF d20 Modern will work, but I will have to look deeper as I didn't see much in regard to Future progress levels and tech. May have missed it. There is a d20 Future srd that has everything with classes.


www.d20resources.com has srd's for d20 Future or alternatively you could go to http://spellbooksoftware.com/d20mrsd/future.html.

Not sure why they aren't hyperlinking.


I do have experience with D20 Future, and I can also make modifications on the fly for those systems.

I'm taking a deeper peak into Savage Worlds right now. Also if a system is chosen and people need materials, I can help provide them. That won't be much of an issue here.

So essentially what we really want is just the base core rules for Combat, Character Creations and maybe some technology and appropriate skills for a technology setting.

And with that in mind; without needing too much conversion and just the base sets as most things will be hand done (special weapons and such. Just need the base example stats of a system)

I'm finally leaning towards Savage Worlds or D20 Future.

Savage Worlds is classless, and super, super easy from what I've been parsing through.

D20 Future is not classless, but is pretty solid (From my limited experience) and free online resources.

Later today when I get home from work, I'll check into seeing if I can get my hands on the materials needed. I already have PDF's for d20 future (if anyone needs its). Savage Worlds I will need to gnab and see what I can do. So it may come down to that. I have the Traveller stuff but I think Traveller might be too intricate/involved, especially for a campaign that will really focusing on the story and the characters. As with any good sci-fi their will be action but also mystery, drama, investigation and a lot of roleplaying aspects that make sci-fi settings really shine.

I should have my final decision this evening! If you have any last input feel free to provide them. I'm thinking of making myself available on Skype if anyone wants to have a faster discussion on this.


color me interested.


I've been following the thread and haven't felt like I have had anything to add (that wasn't said better then I could) but I will put in my 2 cents. I think a point based system for character advancement will work better then a level based system. Especially if you want a gritty (realistic) feel to the action. Now having said that availability and learning curve are pretty important considerations too. In the end if you have a good GM and involved players the system becomes less important and all the systems mentioned will work. So my advice for the GM would be to go with the system you are most comfortable with and will bring out the aspects of the story line you want (It sounds like that is what you have decided). Now if I were going to run a space campaign I would probably go with GURPS or savage worlds but that is my preference, and I'm not GMing. Anyway good luck!


Okay the system we will be using is Savage Worlds.

I will be picking up the PDF. Any participants who can't acquire it I will help.

More details will come soon.

In the mean time, anyone interested in joining begin thinking up a character. Remember this is a RP rich setting, so come up with how/why your character is a mercenary/pirate.

I'm looking for a larger then usual gang, about 6-8 players.

For species, I was planning on a multi-species setting, if you have an alien idea or find an image of one you want to be, link it and I will make the call.

Now for two important items to address:

The outfit's name. Your a mercenary/pirate gang so you need a name! I was originally going to come up with this myself but why not let those who want to join help decide!

The ship. One of the more vital pieces as the gang will have a ship to call home. You will start out with one of the options below: (Note: All ships have multiple rooms. A living quarters, command, cargo, living quarters.)

Dropship
The Dropship is a durable ship which is designed for large carry loads. Able to be utilized for many different roles. It's main design for your crew is to be able to quickly utilize planetary drops and deploying heavy armory such as mech suits and a tank. The ship itself is heavily armored but only have meager array of ship weaponry. Designed as a support ship it was not suited to handle front line combat. Modifications were made by the crew to outfit heavier guns to the ship. The ship can hold two large class weapons and two small class weapons.

Striker
The Striker was designed for a medium sized crew. It trades the load weight of the drop ship for lethal arrangement. The cruiser has a weapon built into the hull of the ship that houses a fixed massive weapon that fires from the bow of the ship. The ship also sports four large class weapons and 4 mediums. Due to the heavier armenant it makes the cruiser cargo capacity meager compared to the drop ship and for any deployment of mech suits (which it can only hold two) it needs to either dock or make sub-orbital drop runs.

Cruiser
The Cruiser is the happy inbetween of the Striker and Dropship. Sporting the ability to hold up to four mech suits and also carry a large weaponry load out of four large class weapons, two medium class weapons, and two small class weapons.

Cast your votes! Or discuss!


I'll take a look for the books when I get home, and barring any complications I'd be happy to join. My vote is for the cruiser, best of both options.


My vote is for the Cruiser as well. Better versatility.

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