Wood Kineticist vs Plant ?

[MBT]

Can Wood Kineticist use Extract Element on Plant or Golem without wood trait(Scythe Tree or Wood Golem) ?
Same question on metal element.

[Christopher#2411504]

If the creature lacks the Trait, only if the GM determines it is made "mostly from Wood".

[Claxon]

And while trees are a kind of plant, most plants are not "wood". So I would expect many GMS to say no.

[Dubious Scholar]

Claxon wrote:

And while trees are a kind of plant, most plants are not "wood". So I would expect many GMS to say no.

Wood is the name of the element, but it covers plant matter more generally. Look at the breadth of things the impulses create - fruit, brambles, flowers...

[Easl]

Christopher#2411504 wrote:

If the creature lacks the Trait, only if the GM determines it is made "mostly from Wood".

Agree.

Target a creature within 30 feet that has a trait matching one of your kinetic elements or is made of one of your kinetic elements.

That's the text guidance. It must either have the trait, or the GM must agree it is 'made of' the element. If it's unclear in-character if some beastie is made of wood or made of metal, well...Recall Knowledge + Extract still leaves an action for EB. :)

[Claxon]

Dubious Scholar wrote:

Claxon wrote:

And while trees are a kind of plant, most plants are not "wood". So I would expect many GMS to say no.

Wood is the name of the element, but it covers plant matter more generally. Look at the breadth of things the impulses create - fruit, brambles, flowers...

EXTRACT ELEMENTS wrote:

You extract elemental matter from a creature's body to weaken it and take its power for your own. Target a creature within 30 feet that has a trait matching one of your kinetic elements or is made of one of your kinetic elements.

While it's true several of the several of the impulses in Wood element also have the plant trait, the wood elemental doesn't specify it is wood and plant, and they are separate traits.

A lenient GM might allow it, and a strict one might not. Both are reasonable conclusions from the same information.

A strict GM has a reasonable argument that it doesn't include Plants in the name of the element, and Wood element doesn't explicitly mention it anywhere, so it doesn't include Plants or Plant Trait despite several impulses doing so.

So as I said, expect many GMs not to allow it.

It is reasonable to allow, and I would argue that the simply didn't want to name the element "Plant and Wood".

But by only naming it wood, they didn't explicitly include plants.

[Ectar]

There are plenty of non-wooden Plant creatures, even in newer books.
The Giant Flytrap and Sargassum Heap chief among them.

But also plenty of Wood Plant creatures such as the Arboreals.

Also non-Plant Wood creatures. Like Jungle Drakes and Forest Trolls. Weird.

As a GM, I'd look at the pictures, if ones exist, and read the description. If it sounds like they're partially composed of Wood, I'd allow it.

For the particular creatures, I'd definitely allow it. They're both clearly made of wood and, notably, were printed before Rage of Elements, which introduced the Wood trait.

[Dubious Scholar]

Ectar wrote:

There are plenty of non-wooden Plant creatures, even in newer books.

The Giant Flytrap and Sargassum Heap chief among them.

But also plenty of Wood Plant creatures such as the Arboreals.

Also non-Plant Wood creatures. Like Jungle Drakes and Forest Trolls. Weird.

As a GM, I'd look at the pictures, if ones exist, and read the description. If it sounds like they're partially composed of Wood, I'd allow it.

For the particular creatures, I'd definitely allow it. They're both clearly made of wood and, notably, were printed before Rage of Elements, which introduced the Wood trait.

In general, "wood" directly encompasses the lifecycle of trees as a whole (seeds, trees, flowers, fruit, etc), natural growth (which doesn't generally translate to elemental matter, but this is why it gets vitality blasts), things that grow on trees (moss, vines), etc. It's broader than just the stuff that makes up tree trunks is the main point.

[Captain Morgan]

It starts to get tricky when you consider that plants and animals are mostly made up of water. And water is composed of air...

[Claxon]

Captain Morgan wrote:

It starts to get tricky when you consider that plants and animals are mostly made up of water. And water is composed of air...

Saying water is composed of air because it contains molecules of oxygen is...a choice I guess. Not one I would defend, since air is more than just oxygen.