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Interest in campaigning under a Dark Sun (PF1e)

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Here we go again. Gauging interest in playing Dark Sun™ using Pathfinder 1e and Ultimate Psionics. We will be playing in the Tyr region. The aspect of the game deals with trade, only the city state your trading with is Balic.

Why DARK SUN™ again?
I'm buying all the trademarks and copyrights to this campaign setting from Wizards of the Coast in the near future. I can't say exactly when, but a DARK SUN™ Roleplaying game is in the future. Using 3rd Edition (3.0) as the base. I'll be doing the writing, and I have an editor and a future team of artists to illustrate the game.

So, I'll be posting a separate thread for recruitment. So if you have to ask questions about character creation, this is the place to do it. This game does not discriminate. Although it deals with slavery (one reason why Wizards finds DARK SUN™ to be so problematic for their new player initiative). The slavery aspect for this campaign is based on Gorean principles found in the John Norman Gor series. In case you want to play a slave, you have to come to some sort of agreement with another player character so you can adventure with the group.

Note, I do realize that slavery in an RPG is touchy. But it's part of the DARK SUN™ campaign setting. You don't have to play a slave if you don't want to. But it adds an interesting dimension to the game if you do.

Another problematic aspect to DARK SUN™ is the skimpy clothing one can wear. Although it's not realistic (desert sheiks and the Bedouin people have better clothes for the desert); this game is fantasy so feel free to go with a costume for your character that has DARK SUN™ in mind.

I'm sure there are other reasons why Wizards won't touch this setting. So sound off your interest. If I can get twenty people interested, I'll start a separate recruitment thread.

I’m always interested in Dark Sun. Seems like games usually manage to not work out, but I’m up for another try. I’ll wait for build rules before I speculate on what I’d play.
Ouachitonian wrote:
I’m always interested in Dark Sun. Seems like games usually manage to not work out, but I’m up for another try. I’ll wait for build rules before I speculate on what I’d play.

ditto

Ouachitonian wrote:
I’m always interested in Dark Sun. Seems like games usually manage to not work out, but I’m up for another try. I’ll wait for build rules before I speculate on what I’d play.

Ouach and Seth, I'm going to write the guidelines using Word, because there are a lot of them. Such as Clerics and Paladins will have to be written up according to the world, and not to mention how Preserving and Defiling work. That one is easy, though. The Dark Sun races (especially the Aarakocra, Pterrans, Dragonborn, and Thri-Kreen) will need new write ups according to the ARG.

So, before I invest time in that, I want to know who will be interested in playing.

Interested :)

If I recall correctly, there are halfling cannibals in the Dark Sun setting...is that correct? Were they NPCs only or allowed as PCs?

I sat in for one or few sessions of Dark Sun decades ago, so do not recall much except for playing a defiler (blight?) druid.

Aside half-giants (muls?) and thri-keen, were there other non-traditional D&D PC races that were part of the setting?

Put me down as intererested.

For this one I would wait until the others more familiar with the setting make their PCs and then make one to help round out the party composition.
GM_Drake wrote:
If I recall correctly, there are halfling cannibals in the Dark Sun setting...is that correct? Were they NPCs only or allowed as PCs?

I think they were allowed as PCs. There's stats for them in the DS Campaign Setting.

Quote:

I sat in for one or few sessions of Dark Sun decades ago, so do not recall much except for playing a defiler (blight?) druid.

Aside half-giants (muls?) and thri-keen, were there other non-traditional D&D PC races that were part of the setting?

Muls were sterile dwarf-human half-breeds. Other PC races included:

1. Aarakocra
2. Pterrans
3. Dragonborn (second generation Dray)

Muls...I thought they might have been half-human/half dwarves (that made me wonder why half-breeds of the two races resulted in a larger race then either parent's race). The look and size of them made me think they were half-giants (until reading your post to affirmed my initial memory recall was correct.

As stated before, I will wait on which class to create my character based on what other applicants make.

As for race...dragonborn.

For dragonborn, do you choose a dragon type (a chromatic/mettalic/other type) of dragon your dragonborn is descended from?
GM_Drake wrote:

Muls...I thought they might have been half-human/half dwarves (that made me wonder why half-breeds of the two races resulted in a larger race then either parent's race). The look and size of them made me think they were half-giants (until reading your post to affirmed my initial memory recall was correct.

As stated before, I will wait on which class to create my character based on what other applicants make.

As for race...dragonborn.

For dragonborn, do you choose a dragon type (a chromatic/mettalic/other type) of dragon your dragonborn is descended from?

No, not for Dark Sun (the usual fantasy tropes have been reimagined). In Dark Sun, if you remember correctly, Defilers can become dragons. Preservers become Avangions. So, if it makes it easier, just choose the Red Dragon type.

Elton, I read up on the dray ("dragonborn") race (Dark Sun, AD&D 2nd Ed books Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium Appendix II Terrors Beyond Tyr and Dark Sun Campaign Expansion City by the Silt Sea (which has the player character rules for dray PCs).

Trying to incorporate everything from AD&D 2nd ed got me to 17 race points, not including differences between 1st generation and 2nd generation dray (ability score modifiers quality for both generations, +1 bonus to attack/damage rolls with natural attacks for 1st-gen; +1 bonus to attack rolls with dray-crafted weapons for 2nd-gen, and using immunity to fire (4 points) instead of fire resistance (1 point).

I came up with a 10 race point build for the dray race. Does it look good to you?

Dray (10 race point build):

Racial Qualities

Type: Dragon (10 race points --> dropped down to 3 race points (only gains darkvision, as the dray race is not listed as having low-light vision nor immunity to magical sleep and paralysis effects).  Other race types that only grant darkvision cost 3 race points (aberration, monstrous humanoid).
Size: Medium (0 race points)
Base Speed: Normal (0 race points) The Monstrous Compendium lists their speed as 12" (which is the same as humans).
Languages: Standard (ancient Giustenal common tongue, Common tongue) or Xenophobic (ancient Giustenal common tongue) (0 race points) 
Ability Score Modifier: Specialized* (1 race point)
*1st generation dray: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int
*2nd generation dray: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Wis

Total race points for racial qualities: 4 race points

Racial Traits

Defense Racial Traits

(standard) Energy Resistance (fire) (1 race point)
(standard) Natural Armor (+1 bonus) (2 race points)
(advanced) Improved Natural Armor (Increases by another +1 bonus) (1 race point)

Total race points for defense racial traits: 4 race points

Offense Racial Traits

(standard) Bite (1d3 damage) (1 race point)
(advanced) Claws (1d4 damage) (2 race points)
(standard) Weapon Familiarity (Dragon's Paw and any weapon with the word 'dray' in it it) (1 race point)

Total race points for offense racial traits: 4 race points

Weakness Racial Traits

(advanced) Elemental Vulnerability (cold) (-2 race points)

Total race points for weakness racial traits: -2 race points

Total dray race build cost: 10 race points (Using advanced racial traits to gain Improved Natural Armor, Claws and Elemental Vulnerability.)
GM_Drake wrote:

Elton, I read up on the dray ("dragonborn") race (Dark Sun, AD&D 2nd Ed books Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium Appendix II Terrors Beyond Tyr and Dark Sun Campaign Expansion City by the Silt Sea (which has the player character rules for dray PCs).

Trying to incorporate everything from AD&D 2nd ed got me to 17 race points, not including differences between 1st generation and 2nd generation dray (ability score modifiers quality for both generations, +1 bonus to attack/damage rolls with natural attacks for 1st-gen; +1 bonus to attack rolls with dray-crafted weapons for 2nd-gen, and using immunity to fire (4 points) instead of fire resistance (1 point).

I came up with a 10 race point build for the dray race. Does it look good to you?

** spoiler omitted **...

Okay, that looks like a good writeup. I may use it myself when I prepare the character creation document. When I did Dragonborn, I tried to get it to a 15 RP race. Looks like you got them down to ten.

Thanks, Elton.

Things the 10 point build did not get:

+3 natural armor (10 point build got it to +2)

bite attacks that deal 1d4 damage (10 point build it is 1d3)

claw attacks that deal 1d6 damage (10 point build it is 1d4)

their reduced daily water intake requirement

The mutation roll for 1st-generation dray (that can result in good or bad game mechanic effects; some of the positive results are worth 9 race points: Natural armor bonus increasing to +5 (2+3+4=9 RP); an ability score increasing by 2 points via the ability score racial traits (not the requisite quality) (4 RP)

full D&D3E/PF1E equivalent ability scores of 1st-gen dray: +4 Str, +4 Con, - 4 Int, -2 Wis

the bonus on attack/damage rolls with 1st-gen bite and claw attacks

the bonus on attack rolls with dray-crafted weapons for 2nd-generation dray

Oops, I misread the intelligence modifier for 2nd-generation dray: they have a positive +1 to their Intelligence (not a -1) Could adjust the ability scores for 2nd-gen to: +2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Wis (which would be 0 race points instead of 1 race point for the specialized ability score adjustments, as well as making the 1st-generaton dray stronger than the 2nd-generation dray (like they are in AD&D 2nd Ed.

Oops, I forgot to incorporate their -2 to attack rolls while fighting in areas of bright light (such as sunlight).

* *

I will adjust the RP build to make one for 1st-generation dray (that incorporates positive 4 RP build random mutations); one for 1st-generation dray (that incorporates negative random mutations). Using the mutation table from City by the Silt Sea as the guiding force.

So will have three distinct RP builds: 2nd-generation dray; 1st-generation dray with poor-quality mutation; 1st-generation dray with good-quality mutation.

Okay. I hope it's not a lot of work for you.

2nd Generation Dray (10 race point build):

Racial Qualities

Type: Dragon (10 race points --> dropped down to 3 race points (only gains darkvision). Other race types that only grant darkvision cost 3 race points (aberration, monstrous humanoid).
Size: Medium (0 race points)
Base Speed: Normal (0 race points) The Monstrous Compendium lists their speed as 12" (which is the same as humans)
Languages*: Xenophobic (ancient Guistenal common tongue) (0 race points)
Ability Score Modifier**: Standard (+2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Wis) (0 race points)

*Most of the second-generation dray of New Giustenal do not know the surface common tongue, unlike first-generation dray, who teach their young their ancestral tongue as well as the surface common tongue to increase their chances for survival on the harsh surface of Athas.

**Second-generation dray are not as inherently strong as first-generation dray are. Second-generation dray are considerably smarter than a typical first-generation dray, but their dependence on living within New Giustenal makes them less suited to surviving on the surface of Athas, unlike first-generation dray, who have become accustomed to surviving on the surface since Dregoth banished them from Giustenal more than 1,500 years ago.

Total race points for racial qualities: 3 race points

Racial Traits

Defense Racial Traits

(standard) Energy Resistance (fire) (1 race point)
(standard) Natural Armor (+1 bonus) (2 race points)
(advanced) Improved Natural Armor (Increases by another +1 bonus) (1 race point)

Total race points for defense racial traits: 4 race points

Feat and Skill Racial Traits

(standard) static bonus feat (one of the following*** GM decides on: Additional Traits; Cunning; Prodigy; Scholar; Skill Focus) (2 race points)

Total race points for feat and skill racial traits: 2 race points

Offense Racial Traits

(standard) Bite (1d3 damage) (1 race point)
(advanced) Claws (1d4 damage) (2 race points)
(standard) Weapon Familiarity (Dragon's Paw and any weapon with the word 'dray' in it it) (1 race point)

Total race points for offense racial traits: 4 race points

Weakness Racial Traits

(advanced) Elemental Vulnerability (cold) (-2 race points)
(standard) Light Sensitivity (-1 point)

Total race points for weakness racial traits: -3

Total 2nd-generation dray race build cost: 10 race points (Using advanced racial traits to gain Improved Natural Armor, Claws and Elemental Vulnerability.)

*** All static feat choices give customization to an individual 2nd-generation dray character.

Additional Traits: You gain two character traits of your choice (see Chapter 8). These traits must be chosen from different lists, and cannot be chosen from lists from which you have already selected a character trait. You must meet any additional qualifications for the character traits you choose.

Cunning: You gain 1 additional skill point per Hit Die. When you take this feat, you gain a number of skill points equal to your Hit Dice right away, and every time your Hit Dice increase in the future, you will gain an additional skill point as well.

Prodigy: Choose two Craft, Perform, or Profession skills in any combination (two Craft skills, a Craft skill and a Perform skill, and so on). You receive a +2 bonus on checks with these skills. If you have 10 or more ranks in any one of these skills, the bonus increases to +4 for that skill.

Scholar: Pick any two Knowledge skills. You gain a +2 bonus on checks with these two skills. If you have 10 or more ranks in one of these Knowledge skills, the bonus increases to +4 for that skill.

Skill Focus: Choose a skill. You get a +3 bonus on all checks involving the chosen skill. If you have 10 or more ranks in that skill, this bonus increases to +6.
GM_Drake wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

Good work. You managed to capture the race.

Thank you.

When I work on the first-generaton dray, I am going to include the 1 RP Skill Training (Perception and Survival), as not being permitted to return to their ancestral home underground, all of them had to learn to adapt to the surface (regardless of what character class they are).

LOL. I forgot about alternate racial traits....even though I gave four of them without realizing it.

Which of the five options for the static bonus feat do you think best applies as having the highest representation with second-generation dray?

I have not gone to sleep yet...looks at the time...it is noon....wt? :P

Ooh...that covers some of the ideas I am liking for the static bonus feat options for the first-generation dray. :D All but one can be alternate racial traits.
GM_Drake wrote:

LOL. I forgot about alternate racial traits....even though I gave four of them without realizing it.

Which of the five options for the static bonus feat do you think best applies as having the highest representation with second-generation dray?

I have not gone to sleep yet...looks at the time...it is noon....wt? :P

Give me some time to work on it, alright? I think if you are going to have alternate traits for Second Gen Dray, then you don't need players to choose a static bonus feat.

EltonJ wrote:

Give me some time to work on it, alright? I think if you are going to have alternate traits for Second Gen Dray, then you don't need players to choose a static bonus feat.

For clarification: Without alternate racial traits, players do not get an 'reduced flexible feat slot' but rather all members of the race get the same prerquisite-less feat that was chosen when the race was designed.

Which means alternate racial traits for the static bonus feat slot, can be used as a 'reduced flexible feat slot' (only being able to select prerequisite-less feats, which are approved by the GM of course. Some players might look at the feat table and think metamagic feats are prerequisite-less, but technically they are not - as you need the ability to cast spells to make use of them.

So the second-generation dray have "You gain one of the following feats: Additional Traits; Cunning; Prodigy; Scholar; Skill Focus."

Which makes one of their standard racial traits a set of alternate racial traits. :)

Have a good evening/afternoon/morning/night, everyone. I have a weekly game starting soon.
GM_Drake wrote:
EltonJ wrote:

Give me some time to work on it, alright? I think if you are going to have alternate traits for Second Gen Dray, then you don't need players to choose a static bonus feat.

For clarification: Without alternate racial traits, players do not get an 'reduced flexible feat slot' but rather all members of the race get the same prerquisite-less feat that was chosen when the race was designed.

Which means alternate racial traits for the static bonus feat slot, can be used as a 'reduced flexible feat slot' (only being able to select prerequisite-less feats, which are approved by the GM of course. Some players might look at the feat table and think metamagic feats are prerequisite-less, but technically they are not - as you need the ability to cast spells to make use of them.

So the second-generation dray have "You gain one of the following feats: Additional Traits; Cunning; Prodigy; Scholar; Skill Focus."

Which makes one of their standard racial traits a set of alternate racial traits. :)

Have a good evening/afternoon/morning/night, everyone. I have a weekly game starting soon.

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

Interested

Hi everyone,

Bad news. I traded DARK SUN for FORGOTTEN REALMS. I'll still run a Dark Sun campaign, if you want me too. But the fact is, Wizards of the Coast thought it would be a good idea if I trade campaign settings. I'm no longer buying Dark Sun, but I'm buying the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign. FR wins out, I guess.

Congrats on your upcoming purchase. :)

If you were to run Al-Qadim or Dark Sun, my preference is Al-Qadim.
EltonJ wrote:

Hi everyone,

Bad news. I traded DARK SUN for FORGOTTEN REALMS. I'll still run a Dark Sun campaign, if you want me too. But the fact is, Wizards of the Coast thought it would be a good idea if I trade campaign settings. I'm no longer buying Dark Sun, but I'm buying the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign. FR wins out, I guess.

If I remember correctly you mentioned buying FR in the past but it fell through. I'm surprised WotC is selling it. It's the setting for the video games, movies, books...

If you have a choice between FR and anything else FR wins. Congrats.
trawets71 wrote:
EltonJ wrote:

Hi everyone,

Bad news. I traded DARK SUN for FORGOTTEN REALMS. I'll still run a Dark Sun campaign, if you want me too. But the fact is, Wizards of the Coast thought it would be a good idea if I trade campaign settings. I'm no longer buying Dark Sun, but I'm buying the FORGOTTEN REALMS campaign. FR wins out, I guess.

If I remember correctly you mentioned buying FR in the past but it fell through. I'm surprised WotC is selling it. It's the setting for the video games, movies, books...

If you have a choice between FR and anything else FR wins. Congrats.

Well, thanks.

Forgotten Realms is better than Dark Sun that's for sure. I don't know what rights I'm buying from Wizards yet, but I intend to get a signed contract.

Forgotten Realms are a favorite of mine.

I'm still in.
DM Lil" Eschie wrote:

Forgotten Realms are a favorite of mine.

I'm still in.

Cool. I got the Waterdeep accessory, if I don't get a lot of players for the Yuan-ti recruitment, I'll definitely contact you about a campaign set in Waterdeep.

Okay, an Update.

Wizards changed their minds again and I swapped Forgotten Realms™ for Dark Sun™. I know this is unfair, but certain shinnagins happened on our end and their end.

Wizards may change their minds again, as they are and have been very mercurial through this whole summer. I'm hoping they don't change their minds again and so I can report that I bought Dark Sun™ from them.

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