Not Yet Announced SF2e Hopes

[Perpdepog]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I wanna say we got abilities like this in PF1E, also. I forget the name of the line, Celestial Ink or something I believe, but it was a series of discoveries for the alchemist that let you paint things into tangibility. It was very cool.

[Xenobiologist]

It would probably be fairly easy to reflavor it as a prepared Illusionist, give it some alternate class features (or the 2E equivalent) to make sure it fits into low-tech fantasy. Some of the alternate class features could be designed and flavored to fit into science fantasy as well by being applicable to holograms.

[SenahBirdR]

I think there could be a specific Cyborg archetypes (similar to the Sterling Dynamo archetype) but I think a Cyborg versatile heritage would be fun add for Starfinder. Can even give a ruling that it can be retrained into with the right circumstance. As a versatile heritage, Cyborg might work like a half-Android heritage and use the Android feats.

Mystic and Witchwarper subclasses leave a lot of room for various SciFantasy magic types.

[keftiu]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I'd sooner point to that jerk from Neuromancer who specialized in holograms - a cyberpunk classic feels like fair game as inspiration for a Starfinder class!

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd welcome a Razorgirl-equivalent, too. What's SF2's answer to the Monk, as a cyborg power fantasy?

[Mangaholic13]

keftiu wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I'd sooner point to that jerk from Neuromancer who specialized in holograms - a cyberpunk classic feels like fair game as inspiration for a Starfinder class!

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd welcome a Razorgirl-equivalent, too. What's SF2's answer to the Monk, as a cyborg power fantasy?

In SF1, the answer to Monk was Vanguard. Used the power of entropy and shields, along with a resource generated by taking damage to pull of space magic.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

I could also see a world where a shifter/evolutionist style shapeshifting martial class has a cyborg/nanobots subclass option.

The 10-foot reach attack may be combat tentacles to the eldritch subclass, but they're extending robot fists for you. Your teammate might turn their hand into tiger claws, but you have blades that swing out of your fingers like switchblades.

And I bet you could have plenty of unique feats, too. Your hand can pop off and act as the crawling claw familiar. Your head can fly off and act as a scouting drone. You can remotely attempt hacking checks with a computer in your brain, and your cyborg body gives special reactions when taking vitality or electric damage.

[WWHsmackdown]

A netrunner type class could be the technological mirror of the mystic class, giving out passive buffs and actions by way of everybody's comms and augmetics being tied to a party network

[Perpdepog]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I'd sooner point to that jerk from Neuromancer who specialized in holograms - a cyberpunk classic feels like fair game as inspiration for a Starfinder class!

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd welcome a Razorgirl-equivalent, too. What's SF2's answer to the Monk, as a cyborg power fantasy?

In SF1, the answer to Monk was Vanguard. Used the power of entropy and shields, along with a resource generated by taking damage to pull of space magic.

There are also some pretty appropriate soldier fighting styles, too. The Qi Adept comes to mind as probably the best example, but there are a fair number of other brawling-focused styles that you could also mine for ideas.

[moosher12]

So I'm reading the Vanguard right now, and I really want to see the Vanguard be brought to SF2E, but the Vanguard really needs a name change to something that invokes what it actually is. I don't what name would actually invoke it's vibes, but the Shigaraki Tomura vibes are awesome. Perhaps an "Entropath," or a "Discordant?"

Biohacker is also cool, would love to see it brought in as a dedicated non-magical healer. Feels like it'd make an interesting alternative to an alchemist. Don't really want to see the biohacker brought in as it is in 1E though, feel it should implement some additional considerations to emphasize surgery as well as medicine and poison. Put more emphasis on them as a physician and surgeon on top of being a Hojo-tier bio scientist. Let them emphasize knives as well as darts. Let them craft elixirs, poisons, and mutagens in addition to medicinal items.

[Driftbourne]

moosher12 wrote:

Biohacker is also cool, would love to see it brought in as a dedicated non-magical healer. Feels like it'd make an interesting alternative to an alchemist. Don't really want to see the biohacker brought in as it is in 1E though, feel it should implement some additional considerations to emphasize surgery as well as medicine and poison. Put more emphasis on them as a physician and surgeon on top of being a Hojo-tier bio scientist. Let them emphasize knives as well as darts. Let them craft elixirs, poisons, and mutagens in addition to medicinal items.

I wouldn't want to see Biohacker as a dedicated non-magical healer. I wouldn't mind Biohackers having a healing subclass that is really good at non-magical experimental healing, with some cost, risk, or side effect.

An extreme case of Biohackers focused on improving themselves could be the Evolutionist class. Farscape episode 9, "DNA Mad Scientist," would be a good example. The Netflix series "Biohackers" is a good example of biohackers without going the full Evolutionist class route. Spider from the movie Johnny Mnemonic would be another Biohacker example, more focused on augmentations.

[moosher12]

I guess I should clarify that I don't mean for them to be dedicated to being a nonmagical healer, but I want them to be able to play the role of an effective dedicated healer if they want to. And they certainly should not need to delve into an archetype to be such.

Just poking people for good or ill feels so limiting though. Perhaps giving them an auto-scaling Medicine proficiency so they can effectively treat wounds as a baseline, and granting them a few class feats to choose that expand their medicine checks to do more, like the Medic archetype can, but with the potency that a proper class offers. You can of course flex away from it to focus more on creating drugs for buffs and nerfs, but the package should include avenues for being a competent field medic without the need for delving into an archetype. I don't think it should be a subclass though, I think it should be a series of feats any biohacker can invest in, as it simply does not make much sense that a class that knows the body so well they can make chemical compounds to enhance or hinder it, somehow is not capable of patching it up, or fighting off the types of afflictions they inflict.

As for the evolutionist, I don't know much about the evolutionist, as that's 8 books away on my reading order, so I probably won't get to read it for some time to give it a call. A brief skim of its description indicates I would not be surprised if it got rolled into the biohacker like the precog got rolled into the witchwarper though, but that's an uneducated sentiment as I have not read the class in full yet.

[Zoken44]

The Evolutionist still has a fairly clear space in SF2e. There is no other class that focuses on Grafts. I could see it as giving you a discount on grafts, and maybe increasing your body's tolerance of them. And further giving you special "Mutations" Essentially impuses that you can use based on your Evolutionary Destiny (subclass) or which part of yourself has a graft. Not to mention an unarmed attack that can be melee or ranged, and can be energy or physical is a nice place to go. part of your class would probably be adding certain traits to your weapon with the list of traits changing depending on what you added previously. (Both to make it thematic of evolutionary branches, but also to balance so you can't get a d12 finesse agile weapon)

I'll repeat myself, I really want to see the nanocyte come back.

[moosher12]

Versatile Heritage for heavily borged out ancestries. Not an android where they are a robot first. But a base ancestry that is so heavily modded out the gate that they get access to ancestry feats that revolve around being as much or more machine than their base ancestry.

[Nezuyo]

Pure borged out Versatile Heritage would be nice, ties into my own pipe dream, of multi-arm augmentation so that any ancestry could have 4/6 arms if they so wish (and pony up the credits.)

[Perpdepog]

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get some higher-end implants that gave you extra arms. We are already seeing some ancestry feats that do so in Galaxy Guide.

Come to think, we're already seeing good feats to model for a cyborg versatile heritage, too. IIRC dragonkin and kalo already have heritages and feats that give them more implants.

[moosher12]

Starfinder 1E actually had that as a spinal implant, the cybernetic arm.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

I think arm augmentations are inevitable. Soldiers will end up with a lot more augmentation slots than other classes and want 2-handed weapons, so I imagine that we're going to see a lot of 4-Armed Cyber-Vesk Soldiers and whatnot.

[Perpdepog]

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

I think arm augmentations are inevitable. Soldiers will end up with a lot more augmentation slots than other classes and want 2-handed weapons, so I imagine that we're going to see a lot of 4-Armed Cyber-Vesk Soldiers and whatnot.

It doesn't hurt that the major concern with having lots of arms, being able to have lots of items and options readied without needing to pull them free or prep them, is basically mitigated by introducing the rules regarding active arms.

[Zoken44]

I think being "heavily borged out" would fall more under an archetype (much like the sterling dynamo before it) than an ancestry feat. And possibly even be tied into an Evolutionist class.

[Zoken44]

So what are some archetype ideas you guys think would be unique to Starfinder?

I think an archetype exclusive to ancestries with multiple arms that allow them to coordinate those arms better would be nice.

Maybe an archetype for Azlanti turncoats (or in evil campaigns active duty)

[Justnobodyfqwl]

A quick speed round of archetypes that i'm expecting to see:

-Grenadier that specializes in grenades and be able to do tricks with them/improve the DC

-Hacker archetype that offers early Expertise, a few specific skill feat options, and and a variety of ways to use hacking in encounter and exploration modes.

-Trick Driver 2, highlighting piloting checks for land vehicles before we see any starship rules.

-Social Media Star. It's absolutely going to happen, probably a best-of of the Celebrity and Dandy archetypes that integrates Performance and Computers.

-Scifi Doctor, emphasizing Life Sciences Lore and non-magical medical knowledge in a setting with lots of science.

[NoxiousMiasma]

I'd love to see a Grenadier archetype, especially if it gets free grenades, in the model of 1e Bombard Soldier or 2e alchemist. I would also love to see the hybrid grenades come back, because then I can update my favourite 1e character for the new edition! (Grenade of summon monster + creature companion on a Bombard Soldier = basically a pokemon trainer)

Besides that, I really want a Xenometric Android versatile heritage, and I'd love to see a 2e take on a lot of the weirder alien options (holograms! Raxilites! Thyr! Stellifera! Some kind of archetype or versatile heritage for Entu symbiotes!). Honestly, just give us a Lost Omens Ancestry Guide in Space, that'd be great.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

NoxiousMiasma wrote:

I'd love to see a Grenadier archetype, especially if it gets free grenades, in the model of 1e Bombard Soldier or 2e alchemist. I would also love to see the hybrid grenades come back, because then I can update my favourite 1e character for the new edition! (Grenade of summon monster + creature companion on a Bombard Soldier = basically a pokemon trainer)

Besides that, I really want a Xenometric Android versatile heritage, and I'd love to see a 2e take on a lot of the weirder alien options (holograms! Raxilites! Thyr! Stellifera! Some kind of archetype or versatile heritage for Entu symbiotes!). Honestly, just give us a Lost Omens Ancestry Guide in Space, that'd be great.

Oh hey, I think I heard someone talk about that grenade of summon monster before! It sounds super fun, i'd love to be able to make one of those for free each day.

I think SROs are being very deliberately set up for the Tech Core book, so I would be shocked to not see Holograms as a heritage or separate ancestry in the same book.

Stellifera are one of the all-timer Starfinder aliens to me, and I absolutely want a million art pieces of them interacting with armor and weapons. I off-handedly made a backstage concert employee a Stellifera without thinking about it once, and it became a fun puzzle to try to figure out how a being surrounded by water interacts with stage equipment!

But the biggest horn i'm going to toot is something i've pitched for on this very forum: Entu as a universal heritage! What better way to feel like you're playing a symbiotic fungus species than being able to play as one inside the body of any alien?

Feats could be anything from "you have two minds working together, giving you a bonus against emotion effects" to "your entu remembers languages from its last host, giving you the Multilingual feat" to "your entu controls lower brain function muscle memory while you think, making the flat check DC to not lose concentrate actions higher".

[Squiggit]

Zoken44 wrote:

I think being "heavily borged out" would fall more under an archetype (much like the sterling dynamo before it) than an ancestry feat. And possibly even be tied into an Evolutionist class.

Why not all three? Something Sterling Dynamo esque but for augmentations seems like a good design space, but something in the heritage space I think is also valuable because it lets you play a character whose augments are a part of their character from the start and leans into that heavily modified space more.

Plus, ancestry feats are lower tier than class feats, so you can provide more 'kind of neat' options that wouldn't fly power wise as archetype feats.

I think there's enough gap in direction here that you can easily support all these concepts.

[Perpdepog]

I'd really like to see a symbiend-focused archetype show up, sort of a half-way point of the artifact archetypes that exist in PF2E.

[Zoken44]

I kinda want to present an arguement against you on that Squiggit, but I also don't want to be a jerk and yuk someone's yum, let me know if you'd be interested.

I think the Xenometric Android should definitely be included, but should be a heritage of android, which basically gives you the adopted ancestry general feat, but you CAN take feats connected to body parts.

[NoxiousMiasma]

Zoken44 wrote:

I think the Xenometric Android should definitely be included, but should be a heritage of android, which basically gives you the adopted ancestry general feat, but you CAN take feats connected to body parts.

That seems like somewhat awkward workaround, when we've already got the rules examples of the hybrid heritages to work from - having Xenometric Android work like Aiuvarin or Dromaar, where you use it on the non-android ancestry, would be much more efficient. No need for new rules to be large or have claws at first level, that way.

[Zoken44]

Okay, a lot of you are going to guess where I got this idea, but I want a faction in starfinder that is like a successor to the Firebrands.

they started as a cult of Desna, but eventually worship of her became an optional feature. They bring songs of hope and community through out the cosmos specifically to fight the entropic eldritch beings that lurk between the stars. They are warriors and spell weavers of all walks, but because music is central to their ways, they cover their activities as just being a guild or social community for popular musicians. They eventually come to recruit Dae. In otherwords, a lot of the pop-singers and battle-ballad metal groups with their music streaming all over the infospheres are part of a secret organization fighting to combat entropy and hopelessness: will your voice join the choir of the Starsong?

[oimandibloons]

My personal unannounced dreams of SF2e are:

-Nanocytes becoming a martial class whose gimmick is controlling multiple AoEs.
-Vanguard as a 12+CON HP class with expert in unarmored defence and a class gimmick of taking damage to gain energy to discharge in an attack option depending on stance. Entropy and other physics-y flavour highly desired.
-Weapons upgrades that are basically the SF2e equivalent of reinforced stocks and bayonets, but also expanded to d4 pistols that attach to melee weapons.
-Archetypes that are designed around focusing on one ranged weapon group, like an archetype around plasma weapons or laser weapons, etc.
-A 2-slot prepared occult spellcasting class that can create hardlight walls at-will, and have burst damage focus spells (and feats) revolving around old-school prismatic magic. Think PF2 necromancer but hardlight walls.
-Any indication of the abandoned Armored Mage class that was talked about in either PaizoCon or GenCon 2024.

[Zoken44]

had an idea for a class that could be interesting

Spacemaster
where some break reality by tearing holes to new worlds, or hacking it's magical underpinnings, or finding connection to all living things, you are a living impossiblity, because you are able to violate the most basic laws of phsyics. Distance and volume are your playthings as you alter the distance between objects, enhance or reduce their capacity, and otherwise violate fundamental laws of physics.

I imagine this as a two to three slot caster who can enhance their speed by making certain spans of space just not count. can alter how much a container can hold, even batteries.

[WWHsmackdown]

Zoken44 wrote:

had an idea for a class that could be interesting

Spacemaster
where some break reality by tearing holes to new worlds, or hacking it's magical underpinnings, or finding connection to all living things, you are a living impossiblity, because you are able to violate the most basic laws of phsyics. Distance and volume are your playthings as you alter the distance between objects, enhance or reduce their capacity, and otherwise violate fundamental laws of physics.

I imagine this as a two to three slot caster who can enhance their speed by making certain spans of space just not count. can alter how much a container can hold, even batteries.

Narratively sounds similar to witchwarper

[Zoken44]

This is less about going to alternate realities as it is about violating basic laws of our own, but yeah, now that you mention it I can hear the similarities narratively.

[moosher12]

Zoken44 wrote:

had an idea for a class that could be interesting

Spacemaster
where some break reality by tearing holes to new worlds, or hacking it's magical underpinnings, or finding connection to all living things, you are a living impossiblity, because you are able to violate the most basic laws of phsyics. Distance and volume are your playthings as you alter the distance between objects, enhance or reduce their capacity, and otherwise violate fundamental laws of physics.

I imagine this as a two to three slot caster who can enhance their speed by making certain spans of space just not count. can alter how much a container can hold, even batteries.

I'd take a look at 1E's Vanguard, as this could be a thematic expansion off of the vanguard, who has dominion over manipulating entropy and transfers of energy and forces.

[Mangaholic13]

Personally, I'd like to see some of the following:

1) Mechs
2) Powered Armor
3) Archetypes for Mechs and Powered Armor
4) Bio-engineered Familiars.

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

A quick speed round of archetypes that i'm expecting to see:

-Grenadier that specializes in grenades and be able to do tricks with them/improve the DC

-Trick Driver 2, highlighting piloting checks for land vehicles before we see any starship rules.

-Social Media Star. It's absolutely going to happen, probably a best-of of the Celebrity and Dandy archetypes that integrates Performance and Computers.

-Scifi Doctor, emphasizing Life Sciences Lore and non-magical medical knowledge in a setting with lots of science.

1) Throw in alchemical bombs, and we'd have the bomber archetype I've longed for too.

2) You mean like an Ace Pilot?

3) Could be interesting, especially if you subdivide it based on where they're famous for acting, videos, gaming, or something else.

4) Sounds a bit like what the Biohacker might be.

oimandibloons wrote:

My personal unannounced dreams of SF2e are:

-Weapons upgrades that are basically the SF2e equivalent of reinforced stocks and bayonets, but also expanded to d4 pistols that attach to melee weapons.
-A 2-slot prepared occult spellcasting class that can create hardlight walls at-will, and have burst damage focus spells (and feats) revolving around old-school prismatic magic. Think PF2 necromancer but hardlight walls.
-Any indication of the abandoned Armored Mage class that was talked about in either PaizoCon or GenCon 2024.

1) So, the RWBY archetype? "It's also a gun!"

2) Sounds more like a class archetype (or even a Programming Language) for the Technomancer.

3) I feel like PF2e's War Mage fulfills that. While Starfinder might have Technomancer's FortRun programming language. Plus, any caster could just grab Sentinel always.

[Perpdepog]

I'm so, so looking forward to mechs and powered armor whenever they show up. I'm curious to see if they'll be their own, separate things, or if powered armors will be folded into mechs as a medium-to-large-sized mech. I'd be happy with either.

Also, after looking through the book, I'm just looking forward to more armor in general. It took me a little to groove with it, but I like the knobs that some of the armors we already have twiddle to make them distinct; swapping an AC for an extra upgrade slot is something I could see being especially fun, as well as introducing more armor specialization groups. (The hardlight series makes me hopeful we eventually see more projected, hardlight armors, and that they eventually get their own grouping. The missed opportunities there bug me more than they should.) I also think that providing armors with pre-installed upgrades that can be built into higher-tier versions but not removed could also help.

I'm feeling similarly about weapons. The addition of the new traits, possibilities for damage types, and other things they can tweak are really going to open up the kinds of stuff we can do with weapons. The Professional, or is it Profession, trait alone opens up a whole ton of fun weapon ideas.
I'm personally hoping we also see more traits like Concussive, traits that let you treat a weapon as two different damage types. The ship has sailed on Plasma being one such, fire that can be treated as electricity, but I'm still hoping for other possibilities, like Radioactive/Radiation that does poison damage that can be treated as fire damage, or Disintegration, where void damage can be treated as acid damage.
There is loads of stuff you could homebrew with what we have now, even.

[moosher12]

After helping a buddy of mine who used to do a lot of skateboarding into Pathfinder, and now winding up for Starfinder, it made me realize, It'd be cool to see an archetype for portable sports vehicles such as skates, skateboards, scooters, etc.

I'd imagine it as letting you use the vehicle as a weapon, and allowing you to do Acrobatics checks against an appropriate DC, likely a DC for your level with either the normal, hard, or very hard modifiers, perform a trick and then get some sort of buff, like how the Firebrands and the Swashbuckler might get. Though I suppose this could also feasibly be a Swasbuckler Style, but problematically it'd be a very modern to scifi theme, so it'd probably be easier to make it its own archetype.

[Driftbourne]

moosher12 wrote:

After helping a buddy of mine who used to do a lot of skateboarding into Pathfinder, and now winding up for Starfinder, it made me realize, It'd be cool to see an archetype for portable sports vehicles such as skates, skateboards, scooters, etc.

I'd imagine it as letting you use the vehicle as a weapon, and allowing you to do Acrobatics checks against an appropriate DC, likely a DC for your level with either the normal, hard, or very hard modifiers, perform a trick and then get some sort of buff, like how the Firebrands and the Swashbuckler might get. Though I suppose this could also feasibly be a Swasbuckler Style, but problematically it'd be a very modern to scifi theme, so it'd probably be easier to make it its own archetype.

I played a pouncer pathra precog witchwarper brutaris player in the playtest, focusing on speed and area control minuplistion for sports. I was able to stay on theme and still be effective in most combat. I'd love to be able to add roller skates, hover skates, or rocket skates to that.

I used to play real life roller derby. Not sure how to apply that to the game. Skill wise sudden stops are way more difficult than forward motion. I think being able to keep your forward momentum going without having to use moves or actions all the time, would feel right. also having to do some kind of check to stay up if you get hit while moving.

[Squiggit]

I want to play a soldier with a big shield but damoritosh's grip is a level 18 feat and there's only one 1h weapon with area (and it's an advanced weapon), zero with automatic, at least per aonsrd.

Would love a baby version of the feat available at lower levels or some more variety for 1h automatic/area weapons.

... To be honest, more 1h options in general? It's wild to me that there are only three 1h martial ranged weapons. So much for ranged meta.

Also on the subject of advanced weapons, can we get a way to use them? Most advanced weapons are inaccessible to martials without looking at Pathfinder content. Why are there so many effectively fighter-only weapons in Starfinder?

[Curious_Corvids]

I'd like more Specialisations for the Operative. It should at least have one for twohanded guns, and, if the very broad mechanical categorisation of 'Gun' is deliberate, thrown weapons and bows. As it stands an Operative that wants to use twohanded guns and does not want to invest a lot into Cha or Int is best off taking the Sniper spec simply for the free feat.

I wonder if the lack of those Specialisations, and some general oddities around the Operative, are due to the Operative's shifted focus from 'Space-Rogue' to 'Space-Fighter (Gunslinger?)'. It's the only class that feels a bit half-done. Like it could use a few more months in the oven. (See 'Focused' becoming useless at 7 and the bizarre status speed bonus at 11 and 16.)

Though, I think the class getting a substantial overhaul is a pretty far-off dream.

[Squiggit]

I mean, it's shifted focused since SF1 but the SF2 Operative has been the way it is for like over a year at this point, so it's not really something new or weird.

Not sure I agree it's half done either. I mean it has a few pain points I wish were better, but so does every class and Operative I think gets off better than most.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

Looking at the operative must be really confusing if you weren't around for the playtest. The "half finished" feeling is kind of the opposite: it was notoriously strong and LOADED with features during the playtest. The Skirmisher specialization gave them what's now a sixth level feat. They had an innate "stride whenever you reload" ability: not a stride+reload ACTION, but a "whenever this, then that". Their level 11 speed boosts were a level 3 class feature, combined with another feature that's now a feat. Etc, etc. They were highly mobile, action-compression queens in a way they aren't really anymore.

Also re: there being almost no 1-hand area weapons, and Operatives having no way to specialize in two-handed weapons: I mean it makes sense, right? They're both cause the game kinda yells "Soldiers are the two-handed weapons class" from the rooftop. An Operative can use a two-handed rifle and a Soldier can use a Starfall Pistol, but generally it makes sense for the "AoE debuff martial with heavy armor + two handed weapons" class to be using different weapons than the "Highly mobile, action compression, single target damage" class.

[WatersLethe]

The lack of 1h weapons is bizarre.

[Curious_Corvids]

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

Looking at the operative must be really confusing if you weren't around for the playtest.

Oh, I was around for the playtest or, more succinctly, I looked at the Playtest classes - and I agree that Operative was way overtuned. It just sort of feels like it lost its identity with the full release. Like, it's just blatantly not an action compression mobility class anymore.

Its speed boost is now irrelevant, Focused is just poorly designed, it went from having some of the best reload compression in the game to having none, all of its good mobility features now heavily compete with basic class power increasing feats, Urban Operator is a bizarrely orphaned feature, it's a Sharpshooter that gains legendary perception after the fast-talker does-

I could go on, but. To get to the point: It just sort of feels like it lost what made the Playtest Operative the Operative, and no real identity came to replace it.

It's a powerful class, I said that and I stand by that opinion. I just usually expect more evocative and elegant design from paizo.

[Curious_Corvids]

Also, Devastating Aim. That feat perplexes me with how much it goes against basic 2e design principles.

[Xenocrat]

Ghost and Striker are obviously the two handed ranged weapon subclasses. No, I will not elaborate.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

1) So, the RWBY archetype? "It's also a gun!"

Personally to me that feels more like the "maze core devices" developed by the nuars (who you can get close to replicating in 2e by importing the minotaur ancestry with the littlehorn heritage, given the very strong implications in 1e that while they were only called "minotaur-like" in text, their species name and the fact that Absalom Station seemed to be the closest thing they have to a homeworld indicated a historical connection to Nuar Spiritskin, a minotaur in Absalom specifically notated to be smaller than average, but I digress). Items built with a maze core could shift between two different forms and functionalities, the way RWBY weapons do, while the post you were quoting was more along the lines of a 2e combination weapon, I think.

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Zoken44 wrote:

Also, yes, the devs do sometimes read the forums and often do respond. There is no magic wand to summon them. They have deadlines and timelines they have to stick to so feedback cannot be open forever. Your best bet to be heard will be as part of the feedback for the upcoming Tech Core Playtest.

I know that the devs read the forums because they recognized me when I met them at conventions, and sometimes even commented on something I wrote months before. Plus, now we also have the incredible Maya on the Paizo Team (whom I got to meet at GenCon. Amazingly, they're even nicer in person!)

Hmm

[Hilary Moon Murphy]

Starfinder things that I want to see in 2E:

◈ The orc revolution on Apostae.
◈ Nuars
◈ Rhyphorians. We have Dragonkin, let's bring back their buddies!
◈ Worlanisi - they were my baby as a freelancer, so I'd love to see them back
◈ Sarenrae - the hottest of Golarian goddesses
◈ Vanguards
◈ Starship Stuff

Hmm

[kaid]

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

Starfinder things that I want to see in 2E:

◈ The orc revolution on Apostae.
◈ Nuars
◈ Rhyphorians. We have Dragonkin, let's bring back their buddies!
◈ Worlanisi - they were my baby as a freelancer, so I'd love to see them back
◈ Sarenrae - the hottest of Golarian goddesses
◈ Vanguards
◈ Starship Stuff

Hmm

I have to assume Rhyphorians and a lot of the other main pact world races wind up in the unnamed ancestry book they are working on for SF2. They are waay to big of a population to leave out for long and they are the dragon kin little buddies so sooner rather than later.

[pauljathome]

Hilary Moon Murphy wrote:

we also have the incredible Maya on the Paizo Team (whom I got to meet at GenCon. Amazingly, they're even nicer in person!)

Hmm

I find that INCREDIBLY hard to believe as she is so very very nice on line I wouldn't have thought there much room to be still nicer :-).