Not Yet Announced SF2e Hopes

[Perpdepog]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I wanna say we got abilities like this in PF1E, also. I forget the name of the line, Celestial Ink or something I believe, but it was a series of discoveries for the alchemist that let you paint things into tangibility. It was very cool.

[Xenobiologist]

It would probably be fairly easy to reflavor it as a prepared Illusionist, give it some alternate class features (or the 2E equivalent) to make sure it fits into low-tech fantasy. Some of the alternate class features could be designed and flavored to fit into science fantasy as well by being applicable to holograms.

[SenahBirdR]

I think there could be a specific Cyborg archetypes (similar to the Sterling Dynamo archetype) but I think a Cyborg versatile heritage would be fun add for Starfinder. Can even give a ruling that it can be retrained into with the right circumstance. As a versatile heritage, Cyborg might work like a half-Android heritage and use the Android feats.

Mystic and Witchwarper subclasses leave a lot of room for various SciFantasy magic types.

[keftiu]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I'd sooner point to that jerk from Neuromancer who specialized in holograms - a cyberpunk classic feels like fair game as inspiration for a Starfinder class!

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd welcome a Razorgirl-equivalent, too. What's SF2's answer to the Monk, as a cyborg power fantasy?

[Mangaholic13]

keftiu wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I'd sooner point to that jerk from Neuromancer who specialized in holograms - a cyberpunk classic feels like fair game as inspiration for a Starfinder class!

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd welcome a Razorgirl-equivalent, too. What's SF2's answer to the Monk, as a cyborg power fantasy?

In SF1, the answer to Monk was Vanguard. Used the power of entropy and shields, along with a resource generated by taking damage to pull of space magic.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

I could also see a world where a shifter/evolutionist style shapeshifting martial class has a cyborg/nanobots subclass option.

The 10-foot reach attack may be combat tentacles to the eldritch subclass, but they're extending robot fists for you. Your teammate might turn their hand into tiger claws, but you have blades that swing out of your fingers like switchblades.

And I bet you could have plenty of unique feats, too. Your hand can pop off and act as the crawling claw familiar. Your head can fly off and act as a scouting drone. You can remotely attempt hacking checks with a computer in your brain, and your cyborg body gives special reactions when taking vitality or electric damage.

[WWHsmackdown]

A netrunner type class could be the technological mirror of the mystic class, giving out passive buffs and actions by way of everybody's comms and augmetics being tied to a party network

[Perpdepog]

Mangaholic13 wrote:

keftiu wrote:

Mangaholic13 wrote:

moosher12 wrote:

Holoartist would be brilliant, but I hope in such a way to enable reflavoring to natural art. Would be fun to play a character like that even in fantasy, always was a fan of Sai from Naruto and Kurozumi Kanjuro from One Piece, who had similar abilities.

...You mean the Pictomancer from Final Fantasy?

I'd sooner point to that jerk from Neuromancer who specialized in holograms - a cyberpunk classic feels like fair game as inspiration for a Starfinder class!

EDIT: Come to think of it, I'd welcome a Razorgirl-equivalent, too. What's SF2's answer to the Monk, as a cyborg power fantasy?

In SF1, the answer to Monk was Vanguard. Used the power of entropy and shields, along with a resource generated by taking damage to pull of space magic.

There are also some pretty appropriate soldier fighting styles, too. The Qi Adept comes to mind as probably the best example, but there are a fair number of other brawling-focused styles that you could also mine for ideas.

[moosher12]

So I'm reading the Vanguard right now, and I really want to see the Vanguard be brought to SF2E, but the Vanguard really needs a name change to something that invokes what it actually is. I don't what name would actually invoke it's vibes, but the Shigaraki Tomura vibes are awesome. Perhaps an "Entropath," or a "Discordant?"

Biohacker is also cool, would love to see it brought in as a dedicated non-magical healer. Feels like it'd make an interesting alternative to an alchemist. Don't really want to see the biohacker brought in as it is in 1E though, feel it should implement some additional considerations to emphasize surgery as well as medicine and poison. Put more emphasis on them as a physician and surgeon on top of being a Hojo-tier bio scientist. Let them emphasize knives as well as darts. Let them craft elixirs, poisons, and mutagens in addition to medicinal items.

[Driftbourne]

moosher12 wrote:

Biohacker is also cool, would love to see it brought in as a dedicated non-magical healer. Feels like it'd make an interesting alternative to an alchemist. Don't really want to see the biohacker brought in as it is in 1E though, feel it should implement some additional considerations to emphasize surgery as well as medicine and poison. Put more emphasis on them as a physician and surgeon on top of being a Hojo-tier bio scientist. Let them emphasize knives as well as darts. Let them craft elixirs, poisons, and mutagens in addition to medicinal items.

I wouldn't want to see Biohacker as a dedicated non-magical healer. I wouldn't mind Biohackers having a healing subclass that is really good at non-magical experimental healing, with some cost, risk, or side effect.

An extreme case of Biohackers focused on improving themselves could be the Evolutionist class. Farscape episode 9, "DNA Mad Scientist," would be a good example. The Netflix series "Biohackers" is a good example of biohackers without going the full Evolutionist class route. Spider from the movie Johnny Mnemonic would be another Biohacker example, more focused on augmentations.

[moosher12]

I guess I should clarify that I don't mean for them to be dedicated to being a nonmagical healer, but I want them to be able to play the role of an effective dedicated healer if they want to. And they certainly should not need to delve into an archetype to be such.

Just poking people for good or ill feels so limiting though. Perhaps giving them an auto-scaling Medicine proficiency so they can effectively treat wounds as a baseline, and granting them a few class feats to choose that expand their medicine checks to do more, like the Medic archetype can, but with the potency that a proper class offers. You can of course flex away from it to focus more on creating drugs for buffs and nerfs, but the package should include avenues for being a competent field medic without the need for delving into an archetype. I don't think it should be a subclass though, I think it should be a series of feats any biohacker can invest in, as it simply does not make much sense that a class that knows the body so well they can make chemical compounds to enhance or hinder it, somehow is not capable of patching it up, or fighting off the types of afflictions they inflict.

As for the evolutionist, I don't know much about the evolutionist, as that's 8 books away on my reading order, so I probably won't get to read it for some time to give it a call. A brief skim of its description indicates I would not be surprised if it got rolled into the biohacker like the precog got rolled into the witchwarper though, but that's an uneducated sentiment as I have not read the class in full yet.

[Zoken44]

The Evolutionist still has a fairly clear space in SF2e. There is no other class that focuses on Grafts. I could see it as giving you a discount on grafts, and maybe increasing your body's tolerance of them. And further giving you special "Mutations" Essentially impuses that you can use based on your Evolutionary Destiny (subclass) or which part of yourself has a graft. Not to mention an unarmed attack that can be melee or ranged, and can be energy or physical is a nice place to go. part of your class would probably be adding certain traits to your weapon with the list of traits changing depending on what you added previously. (Both to make it thematic of evolutionary branches, but also to balance so you can't get a d12 finesse agile weapon)

I'll repeat myself, I really want to see the nanocyte come back.

[moosher12]

Versatile Heritage for heavily borged out ancestries. Not an android where they are a robot first. But a base ancestry that is so heavily modded out the gate that they get access to ancestry feats that revolve around being as much or more machine than their base ancestry.

[Nezuyo]

Pure borged out Versatile Heritage would be nice, ties into my own pipe dream, of multi-arm augmentation so that any ancestry could have 4/6 arms if they so wish (and pony up the credits.)

[Perpdepog]

I wouldn't be surprised if you could get some higher-end implants that gave you extra arms. We are already seeing some ancestry feats that do so in Galaxy Guide.

Come to think, we're already seeing good feats to model for a cyborg versatile heritage, too. IIRC dragonkin and kalo already have heritages and feats that give them more implants.

[moosher12]

Starfinder 1E actually had that as a spinal implant, the cybernetic arm.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

I think arm augmentations are inevitable. Soldiers will end up with a lot more augmentation slots than other classes and want 2-handed weapons, so I imagine that we're going to see a lot of 4-Armed Cyber-Vesk Soldiers and whatnot.

[Perpdepog]

Justnobodyfqwl wrote:

I think arm augmentations are inevitable. Soldiers will end up with a lot more augmentation slots than other classes and want 2-handed weapons, so I imagine that we're going to see a lot of 4-Armed Cyber-Vesk Soldiers and whatnot.

It doesn't hurt that the major concern with having lots of arms, being able to have lots of items and options readied without needing to pull them free or prep them, is basically mitigated by introducing the rules regarding active arms.

[Zoken44]

I think being "heavily borged out" would fall more under an archetype (much like the sterling dynamo before it) than an ancestry feat. And possibly even be tied into an Evolutionist class.

[Zoken44]

So what are some archetype ideas you guys think would be unique to Starfinder?

I think an archetype exclusive to ancestries with multiple arms that allow them to coordinate those arms better would be nice.

Maybe an archetype for Azlanti turncoats (or in evil campaigns active duty)

[Justnobodyfqwl]

A quick speed round of archetypes that i'm expecting to see:

-Grenadier that specializes in grenades and be able to do tricks with them/improve the DC

-Hacker archetype that offers early Expertise, a few specific skill feat options, and and a variety of ways to use hacking in encounter and exploration modes.

-Trick Driver 2, highlighting piloting checks for land vehicles before we see any starship rules.

-Social Media Star. It's absolutely going to happen, probably a best-of of the Celebrity and Dandy archetypes that integrates Performance and Computers.

-Scifi Doctor, emphasizing Life Sciences Lore and non-magical medical knowledge in a setting with lots of science.

[NoxiousMiasma]

I'd love to see a Grenadier archetype, especially if it gets free grenades, in the model of 1e Bombard Soldier or 2e alchemist. I would also love to see the hybrid grenades come back, because then I can update my favourite 1e character for the new edition! (Grenade of summon monster + creature companion on a Bombard Soldier = basically a pokemon trainer)

Besides that, I really want a Xenometric Android versatile heritage, and I'd love to see a 2e take on a lot of the weirder alien options (holograms! Raxilites! Thyr! Stellifera! Some kind of archetype or versatile heritage for Entu symbiotes!). Honestly, just give us a Lost Omens Ancestry Guide in Space, that'd be great.

[Justnobodyfqwl]

NoxiousMiasma wrote:

I'd love to see a Grenadier archetype, especially if it gets free grenades, in the model of 1e Bombard Soldier or 2e alchemist. I would also love to see the hybrid grenades come back, because then I can update my favourite 1e character for the new edition! (Grenade of summon monster + creature companion on a Bombard Soldier = basically a pokemon trainer)

Besides that, I really want a Xenometric Android versatile heritage, and I'd love to see a 2e take on a lot of the weirder alien options (holograms! Raxilites! Thyr! Stellifera! Some kind of archetype or versatile heritage for Entu symbiotes!). Honestly, just give us a Lost Omens Ancestry Guide in Space, that'd be great.

Oh hey, I think I heard someone talk about that grenade of summon monster before! It sounds super fun, i'd love to be able to make one of those for free each day.

I think SROs are being very deliberately set up for the Tech Core book, so I would be shocked to not see Holograms as a heritage or separate ancestry in the same book.

Stellifera are one of the all-timer Starfinder aliens to me, and I absolutely want a million art pieces of them interacting with armor and weapons. I off-handedly made a backstage concert employee a Stellifera without thinking about it once, and it became a fun puzzle to try to figure out how a being surrounded by water interacts with stage equipment!

But the biggest horn i'm going to toot is something i've pitched for on this very forum: Entu as a universal heritage! What better way to feel like you're playing a symbiotic fungus species than being able to play as one inside the body of any alien?

Feats could be anything from "you have two minds working together, giving you a bonus against emotion effects" to "your entu remembers languages from its last host, giving you the Multilingual feat" to "your entu controls lower brain function muscle memory while you think, making the flat check DC to not lose concentrate actions higher".

[Squiggit]

Zoken44 wrote:

I think being "heavily borged out" would fall more under an archetype (much like the sterling dynamo before it) than an ancestry feat. And possibly even be tied into an Evolutionist class.

Why not all three? Something Sterling Dynamo esque but for augmentations seems like a good design space, but something in the heritage space I think is also valuable because it lets you play a character whose augments are a part of their character from the start and leans into that heavily modified space more.

Plus, ancestry feats are lower tier than class feats, so you can provide more 'kind of neat' options that wouldn't fly power wise as archetype feats.

I think there's enough gap in direction here that you can easily support all these concepts.

[Perpdepog]

I'd really like to see a symbiend-focused archetype show up, sort of a half-way point of the artifact archetypes that exist in PF2E.

[Zoken44]

I kinda want to present an arguement against you on that Squiggit, but I also don't want to be a jerk and yuk someone's yum, let me know if you'd be interested.

I think the Xenometric Android should definitely be included, but should be a heritage of android, which basically gives you the adopted ancestry general feat, but you CAN take feats connected to body parts.

[NoxiousMiasma]

Zoken44 wrote:

I think the Xenometric Android should definitely be included, but should be a heritage of android, which basically gives you the adopted ancestry general feat, but you CAN take feats connected to body parts.

That seems like somewhat awkward workaround, when we've already got the rules examples of the hybrid heritages to work from - having Xenometric Android work like Aiuvarin or Dromaar, where you use it on the non-android ancestry, would be much more efficient. No need for new rules to be large or have claws at first level, that way.

[Zoken44]

Okay, a lot of you are going to guess where I got this idea, but I want a faction in starfinder that is like a successor to the Firebrands.

they started as a cult of Desna, but eventually worship of her became an optional feature. They bring songs of hope and community through out the cosmos specifically to fight the entropic eldritch beings that lurk between the stars. They are warriors and spell weavers of all walks, but because music is central to their ways, they cover their activities as just being a guild or social community for popular musicians. They eventually come to recruit Dae. In otherwords, a lot of the pop-singers and battle-ballad metal groups with their music streaming all over the infospheres are part of a secret organization fighting to combat entropy and hopelessness: will your voice join the choir of the Starsong?

[oimandibloons]

My personal unannounced dreams of SF2e are:

-Nanocytes becoming a martial class whose gimmick is controlling multiple AoEs.
-Vanguard as a 12+CON HP class with expert in unarmored defence and a class gimmick of taking damage to gain energy to discharge in an attack option depending on stance. Entropy and other physics-y flavour highly desired.
-Weapons upgrades that are basically the SF2e equivalent of reinforced stocks and bayonets, but also expanded to d4 pistols that attach to melee weapons.
-Archetypes that are designed around focusing on one ranged weapon group, like an archetype around plasma weapons or laser weapons, etc.
-A 2-slot prepared occult spellcasting class that can create hardlight walls at-will, and have burst damage focus spells (and feats) revolving around old-school prismatic magic. Think PF2 necromancer but hardlight walls.
-Any indication of the abandoned Armored Mage class that was talked about in either PaizoCon or GenCon 2024.