Vanguard Gunslinger, Defensive Armaments, and Combination Weapons


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm building a Vanguard with the intent to use a Gun Sword as the character's weapon and take Defensive Armaments to give them the ability to defend themselves in melee, where they'll likely be spending most of their time.

How is Defensive Armaments intended to interact with combination weapons like the Gun Sword? Is the intent that only the ranged half gains the Parry trait? Or does the weapon itself gain the parry trait because it is a single object with two modes?

I'll have to just deal with whatever the answer is, but it would significantly affect how the character would act and whether it would be worth it to take the Mauler Dedication.


Unfortunately, when a combination weapon is in its melee form it is not a firearm/crossbow, ergo defensive armaments does not apply. From an in universe perspective, the stance used when firing two handed range weapons is completely different from using a spear or sword, so the skills for parrying with a long rifle don't translate to using said long rifle as a sword.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I see. Thank you.

I thought I'd finally found a use for the Gun Sword, dang. Oh, well. Maybe it'd be better to just go with a Dawnsilver Tree with Weapon Improviser Dedication, or something.


That might be RAW (though there may be an argument to be made regarding inherent stats and stats as used). But it does seem a bit too restrictive.

Allowing Defensive Armaments to be used with a combination weapon no matter which mode it is in wouldn't be any more powerful than Dueling Parry normally is. Or other 'use weapon defensively' options available. So I don't think it is a balance concern to allow it to work for combination weapons in either mode.

It might not work in PFS. But for other games, it might be worth asking the GM about.


A key point for combination weapons when asking "can I do X with it" is whether the ability requires that you be "wielding" instead of only "holding" the weapon type or mode in question. Wield is clarified in its definition as being ready to use, not just being held. So if you're wielding a combination weapon in one way, you're not wielding it in its other way


Yes, basically the idea of ​​combination weapons was to solve 3 problems. Being able to meet the requirements of 2 weapon groups at the same time with a single hand (you are wielding a firearm/crossbow and a one-handed melee weapon belonging to some group at the same time), saving on runes and being able to "switch weapons" with a single action just by changing the way you hold the grip. However, the latter ended up losing a lot of its effect due to the implementation of swap in the remaster.

Maybe this was the last straw for the new version of Guns & Gears to allow you to use them with the firearms proficiency in the gunslinger.

Coming back to the point, despite having 2 groups, the traits of combination weapons only apply when you are using the specific grip. If you are wielding it as a melee weapon, without aiming and with your finger on the trigger, you only have access to the available melee traits, while if you are wielding it as a ranged weapon, with the weapon pointed at a target and with your finger on the trigger, you only have access to its ranged traits.

So you can shoot with it, switch your grip to melee and use the parry, but if you are not wielding it as a melee weapon you will not be able to use it, having to switch your grip back to melee first.

It's similar to "release" a shield without detaching it from your arm. You no longer have the hilt of it, but it's still attached to your arm and "occupying" your hand, but it can't be used until you regain the hilt of it.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Yeah. It is what it is; it just would've been nice to have the parry on the melee half, which is the half I would prefer to use while in melee. Having it on the ranged half is a little awkward for a Way that wants you to invest heavily in Strength.

Thanks for the answers, all!

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