What Can a Blinded Spellcaster or Ranged Attacker Do?


Rules Discussion


https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=59

If you're a melee attacker, then you could hobble at half speed to the sound of combat and attack in a square if you think an enemy is there with a 50% miss chance (plus you're off-guard).

A ranged attacker trying to shoot from a distance seems unlikely to be reasonable.

A spellcaster targeting any spells from a distance seems unlikely to be reasonable.

Do they basically need to switch to melee weapons and hobble to the fight to do anything other than just stand around?

Do they need to try to fire arrows or cast spells essentially point blank range so they're confident about targeting?

Anyone had experience dealing with this sort of thing?


While I'd agree for long distances, an enemy who's a few dozen feet away from you can be targetted at range. Anyway, if the enemy makes sound (as in doesn't use Stealth and is relatively close to you) you pinpoint it and can shoot at it. For a spellcaster there's also always the choice of AoE effects.

Also, this is a fantasy game, it's by nature unreasonable.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well it depends on how their imprecise sense(hearing) is handled.

In a room with to much noise the target would be undetected, so the caster/attacker needs to Seek first to establish where they are.

If you can hear it without to much background noise or if the target is loud enough as it is (Like when performing verbal actions or casting spells) you should be able to just fire away at them as they would be Hidden instead of Undetected (providing they arent using stealth to sneak)

As said, AoE also ignores Hidden/Concealed which casters are in no short supply of, But if you are blinded with no other precise sense then any attack roll is subject to the 50% chance to miss.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

A blinded character can also cast spells that affect them personally or that are emanations and/or use items that don't require targeting (for example, an alchemist can use a versatile vial to create an elixir or mutagen and drink it).


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Balkoth wrote:

https://2e.aonprd.com/Conditions.aspx?ID=59

If you're a melee attacker, then you could hobble at half speed to the sound of combat and attack in a square if you think an enemy is there with a 50% miss chance (plus you're off-guard).

A ranged attacker trying to shoot from a distance seems unlikely to be reasonable.

A spellcaster targeting any spells from a distance seems unlikely to be reasonable.

Why do you consider those cases unreasonable? If a melee character can figure out what distance and direction to travel in to get to the right square to swing a sword from, then why can't a ranged character make the same distinction to figure out where approximately to aim?

Honest question. I don't view the distinction here as being overly severe, so I don't make it in my games. Blind character can make a Perception to try to figure out approximate direction/distance using another sense (like Hearing) and work off that.

Now if they're trying to hear someone specifically that is 100' away and there's seven other things in combat between them? I'll impose Circumstance penalties on the check because they're trying to hear something specific over a lot of noise and that's more difficult than "there's a large creature thudding around nearby."

Likewise if an ally tells them "3 o'clock at 15'", then the player can attempt to use that information to help make it easier to have some idea of what to do.

Ideally I'd like the Blinded player to feel like they still have a chance to do something on their turn, without devaluing the condition. Making it effectively crippling to non-melee characters just takes the player out of the combat so long as it lasts, and I want to avoid that outcome.


Tridus wrote:
Now if they're trying to hear someone specifically that is 100' away and there's seven other things in combat between them? I'll impose Circumstance penalties on the check because they're trying to hear something specific over a lot of noise and that's more difficult than "there's a large creature thudding around nearby."

In this case it was more like "A PC (enemy) is in melee with two NPCs (allies) about 100 feet away."

I didn't think the NPC could reasonably make a hearing check to be firing arrows into the right square under those circumstances :)

I basically had the blinded NPC caster start stacking some buffs on himself and the combat wound up ending (NPCs surrendering) a few rounds later as the buffs were finishing, amusingly.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I think once we get to higher levels we have to refer more to genre than physiology, as in it's likely some of the PCs have Legendary Perception so should be able to do (or at least try) some fantastic achievements. Think of if Hawkeye or Green Arrow were temporarily blinded; they'd pull back their arrows, cock their heads to zero in on their target, and make a decent attempt at it, enough to scare the target at least. Or take it up a notch and think Legolas who breaks the laws of physics as a norm (and in the books too), and LotR's the basis for the modern epic fantasy genre that spawned RPGs. Samurais on a blood vendetta, martial artists in death tournaments, and many more fictional warriors fight quite well blinded.

Now an at-level threat trying to Sneak might elude a legendary hero at times, but a rambunctious butterfly would be skewered.


Balkoth wrote:
In this case it was more like "A PC (enemy) is in melee with two NPCs (allies) about 100 feet away."

That's definitely a case where hearing starts to fail. At that distance, I'd tell the player he just hears the noise of combat (as an Imprecise Sense).

The PC can get closer to the source of noise so they'll be able to make sense of what's happening. But at 100 feet, it's too far for me, too.


Yeah anything further than 30-60 depending on conditions is realistically going to have your hearing treated as a vague sense (you can hear something but cannot use it to locate the position of the source)

If they know a target hasnt moved since they got blinded this doesn't really matter but having a high perception to be able to seek under these circumstances is extremely valuable for when it happens.


SuperBidi wrote:
Balkoth wrote:
In this case it was more like "A PC (enemy) is in melee with two NPCs (allies) about 100 feet away."
That's definitely a case where hearing starts to fail. At that distance, I'd tell the player he just hears the noise of combat (as an Imprecise Sense).

Vague sense you mean. Imprecise is enough to target (would be hidden).


Balkoth wrote:
A spellcaster targeting any spells from a distance seems unlikely to be reasonable.

For some area spells you are still Ok as long as the GM agrees that you know which area to position the effect in. Typically an imprecise sense is enough for that.

The rule is A spell that has an area but no targets listed usually affects all creatures in the area indiscriminately.

Example Fireball can be used to effect targets you can't see.

A GM may well put some reasonable limits on your secondary senses as an extra restriction.


Errenor wrote:
Vague sense you mean. Imprecise is enough to target (would be hidden).

Yep, I made a mistake.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / What Can a Blinded Spellcaster or Ranged Attacker Do? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.