Thunderfist from Rogue Genius Games


Rules Questions


So this isn't exactly RAW, but give me your best ruling on this:

2nd level spell from 3rd party Rogue Genius Games, their book The Genius Guide to Air Magic.

The Spell is Thunderfist:
School evocation [air]; Level archon 2, druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 2

CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT
Range short (25 ft. +5 ft./2 levels)
Effect shimmering limbs of air
Duration 1 round/2 levels
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes

DESCRIPTION
This spell creates two columns of wind that can mimic your limbs’ movements when you make unarmed attacks. This allows you to make unarmed attacks at range. You can make one such attack on the same round you cast the spell. On subsequent rounds you can make a single ranged unarmed attack as a standard action or, as a full round action, make as many ranged attacks as you are normally allowed unarmed attacks when performing a full attack action. These attacks use your unarmed melee attack bonus and deal 1d4 damage or your normal unarmed damage (whichever is greater). The damage from these attacks may be lethal or nonlethal damage at your choice.

You may not use this spell to make combat maneuvers or deliver special attacks normally associated with unarmed attacks (such as Stunning Fist). You also cannot use it to deliver touch-range spells or similar magic effects. You cannot use this spell to make ranged attacks with natural weapons. While casting this spell provokes attacks of opportunity normally, the attacks made with the spell do not.

****

I've ruled that based on the spell description's use of "you" and "your" that it is a target self spell only. The caster can't use it on someone else. But that's ok, because the caster has taken a few levels of monk. So far, so good.

The new wrinkle is that the character has just taken Combat Reflexes, and now the player is arguing that with this spell they should get Attacks of Opportunity on everything within range of the spell (Short range, he's 12th level, so that makes it 55 feet).

Seems to me based on the spell description this is kosher. The spell specifically forbids using combat maneuvers or special effects, but AOO is neither. Alternately, I could retcon the spell itself such that it specially says it increases Reach out to a distance of X.

Your thoughts?


Probably should go in third-party discussions, but based on this -
1) spell allows standard or full-round action to make attacks based on what the character would be able to use to make unarmed attacks - AOO isn't covered by either of these
2) spell does not say you threaten, so spell doesn't threaten. To further this point: it is allowing the caster to make ranged attacks, which by default do not threaten, and would provoke AOO if the spell hadn't explicitly said the attacks don't.
3) it doesn't increase reach (as the game term)

Compare power to the spell blood crow strike, which is a 4th level spell, and it allows an attack or flurry of blows against only a single target per 1 round casting, though with a greater range.


3rd party product.
Often a caster only gets what the spell says he gets, so you are intrepreting things/effects into the spell. A conservative simple reading is a bit pedantic but stays in context.

Threatening squares is a basic game mechanic and this spell does not do that.

[wind] is not a standard energy type or descriptor so RAW lacks language for interactions. That means it bypasses RAW defenses and has undefined interactions (alter winds, cloak of winds, windwall, etc). The standard association for air is electric or sonic.


Azothath wrote:

3rd party product.

Often a caster only gets what the spell says he gets, so you are intrepreting things/effects into the spell. A conservative simple reading is a bit pedantic but stays in context.

Threatening squares is a basic game mechanic and this spell does not do that.

[wind] is not a standard energy type or descriptor so RAW lacks language for interactions. That means it bypasses RAW defenses and has undefined interactions (alter winds, cloak of winds, windwall, etc). The standard association for air is electric or sonic.

Air attacks or spells that don't involve electricity typically do bludgeoning damage.


I grok do u wrote:

Probably should go in third-party discussions, but based on this -

1) spell allows standard or full-round action to make attacks based on what the character would be able to use to make unarmed attacks - AOO isn't covered by either of these
2) spell does not say you threaten, so spell doesn't threaten. To further this point: it is allowing the caster to make ranged attacks, which by default do not threaten, and would provoke AOO if the spell hadn't explicitly said the attacks don't.
3) it doesn't increase reach (as the game term)

Compare power to the spell blood crow strike, which is a 4th level spell, and it allows an attack or flurry of blows against only a single target per 1 round casting, though with a greater range.

That's a key point. It specifically says the spells allows ranged attacks. If instead it said it increased Reach out to X distance, then AOO would come into play.

Cool, thanks.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Thunderfist from Rogue Genius Games All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.