Spellstrike casting Draw the Lightning?

[Bluemagetim]

How is this interaction play out if the target is adjacent but not above you or taller? Does the lightning strike at the time the strike hits allowing the 3d12 damage anyway?

[NorrKnekten]

Spellstrike Specifics - Secrets of Magic pg. 37 wrote:

Ancillary Effects: Your spell still has any non-targeted effects that might affect creatures other than the target, as well as any ongoing effects starting from the moment you hit with the Strike. For example, acid splash would still deal its splash damage to creatures other than the target and tanglefoot's circumstance penalty would last for its normal duration. The spell takes effect after the Strike deals damage; if the Strike has other special effects, the GM determines whether they happen before or after the spell.

Invalid or Immune Target: If the target you hit wouldn't be a valid target for the spell, the spell is still expended but doesn't affect the target. If the target is immune to your attack but not the spell, it can still be affected by the spell.

The target is unaffected by the spell as it is not a valid target.

It does not take the extra 1d12 as that comes into effect after the strike deals damage.

[Bluemagetim]

oh are you saying the target wouldn't be in the line of effect of the lightning bolt for the 3d12?

[Finoan]

Bluemagetim wrote:

oh are you saying the target wouldn't be in the line of effect of the lightning bolt for the 3d12?

I would agree with that.

Draw the Lightning wrote:

Targets 1 creature that is either taller than you or higher In the air than you

Spellstrike Specifics wrote:

Invalid or Immune Target: If the target you hit wouldn't be a valid target for the spell, the spell is still expended but doesn't affect the target.

So if you Spellstrike using Draw the Lightning against a creature that is not taller than you or higher in the air than you, then they are not a valid target for the spell and the spell does not affect them.

The spell would still affect you, if it normally does so. So if the GM allows you to cast Draw the Lightning without having an enemy target, then the effect of Draw the Lightning that causes the additional electrical damage on the weapon for the remaining duration of the spell would still happen. But it would not take effect before the Strike part of Spellstrike since the Strike happens before the Spell takes effect in all cases for Spellstrike.

[NorrKnekten]

Draw the Lightning is not a line of effect.
It specifies
Targets 1 creature that is either taller than you or higher In the air than you

Edit: What Finoan said yeah

[Bluemagetim]

This might seem silly but what if the pc goes prone then does it?

[NorrKnekten]

Bluemagetim wrote:

This might seem silly but what if the pc goes prone then does it?

That would be GM adjudication but yeah I think that makes it work yeah, If you are willing to take the -2 to your strike. Hit or miss you they still roll a reflex save outside a critical fail on your part to determine the effect of the spell.

[Bluemagetim]

I do see one issue.
How is taller determined.
Is it based on Size which is an in game mechanic?
Is it based on the arbitrarily chosen height for the pc at character creation?
If a weapon is chosen instead of the person
Is it the position of the weapon relative to the creature?
If spellstrike doesn't require holding the weapon aloft and the spell fires off at the time of hit like the fall errata says then wouldn't the spell always have to travel through the creature being hit by the weapon to get to it?

These are the things i was thinking about when I asked the question which made the spell look to me very much a GM fiat spell. But it seems like you two had a more straightforward approach.

[NorrKnekten]

Height is entirely arbitrary and up for the GM to decide when its unclear, Two medium humanoids would not be able to target eachother.

Height can differ between same sized creature much akin to how large creatures can either be tall or wide. So a magical quadrupedal beast can be medium and still target a medium humanoid with the spell.

Weapon selection also does not matter. The lightning bolt origin is above you and hits the target. The bolt never makes contact with you or the weapon.

Draw the Ligntning wrote:

You must hold your weapon or an empty hand aloft as part of this spell's somatic component. When you do, a bolt of lightning descends from a storm cloud in the air above you and through the target, dealing 3d12 electricity damage with a basic Reflex save.

[Bluemagetim]

It actually does say that it goes from the cloud to the weapon just before that line you posted. Is that part of the description supposed to be ignored?
"...you summon a bolt of lightning to strike through a foe above you and down into your weapon or your body..."

If its considered part of what the spell does then a choice is made between weapon or body and the end of the line for the lighting bolt may be based on that choice.

The other thought though is that the choice of weapon or body doesn't matter since the targeting choices say You and not you or your weapon.
Which bothers me a bit because it is inconsistent with the spell description.

[NorrKnekten]

Bluemagetim wrote:

It actually does say that it goes from the cloud to the weapon just before that line you posted. Is that part of the description supposed to be ignored?

"...you summon a bolt of lightning to strike through a foe above you and down into your weapon or your body..."

If its considered part of what the spell does then a choice is made between weapon or body and the end of the line for the lighting bolt may be based on that choice.

I mean fair enough, but at that point you could also say everyone between the target and you should be affected... but they arent. It targets a single creature, not a line.

Flavor is good but even then whats more likely, the bolt splits to hit both weapon and target. Or it passes harmlessly trough every enemy/ally in its path?

[Bluemagetim]

NorrKnekten wrote:

Bluemagetim wrote:

It actually does say that it goes from the cloud to the weapon just before that line you posted. Is that part of the description supposed to be ignored?

"...you summon a bolt of lightning to strike through a foe above you and down into your weapon or your body..."

If its considered part of what the spell does then a choice is made between weapon or body and the end of the line for the lighting bolt may be based on that choice.

I mean fair enough, but at that point you could also say everyone between the target and you should be affected... but they arent. It targets a single creature, not a line.

Flavor is good but even then whats more likely, the bolt splits to hit both weapon and target. Or it passes harmlessly trough every enemy/ally in its path?

Right that's another point where the description is not represented in the mechanics, even though its described as a bolt of lighting coming from a cloud (what up to 120ft high given the range on the spell) down through a target to the weapon it mechanically cannot do anything to any other creature in flying above that wasn't the chosen target.

Like if there is a creature up there in the sky above you flying that creature could be the target but if there are 5 in a line above only one of them is hit.

I mean that its not an AOE is fine. its just a line effect with a single target from some cloud to the pc.

[NorrKnekten]

Theres always been a few of these, Personally I dont see anything within the writing that suggests its a single line from cloud, to target, to PC.

I read it as a bolt of lightning that hits the target and the weapon which does not neccesarily mean its a line between the two, considering how lightning typically branch out.

Consider electric arc. Mechanically you can hit two targets that does not have line of effect to eachother as long as you have line of effect to them. But it is described as jumping from one target to another. The targets can also be on opposite ends of the caster 60ft from eachother and they are both valid targets for the spell.

The RAW specifics of the spells (Duration/targeting/Cast time/requirements) have always trumped the description within the effect block unless explicitly stated.

[Bluemagetim]

Actually thank you. I had some bad assumptions.