Opportune Riposte MAP?


Rules Discussion


Dose the swashbuckler Opportune Riposte attack get MAP applied to it or like Reactive strike ignore map? They are both reactions, but Opportune Riposte does not specify they way reactive strike does.


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MAP only applies during your turn.

MAP wrote:
The more attacks you make beyond your first in a single turn, the less accurate you become, represented by the multiple attack penalty. The second time you use an attack action during your turn, you take a –5 penalty to your check. The third time you attack, and on any subsequent attacks, you take a –10 penalty to your check.

(There's an exception for readied actions).

Ready wrote:
If you have a multiple attack penalty and your readied action is an attack action, your readied attack takes the multiple attack penalty you had at the time you used Ready. This is one of the few times the multiple attack penalty applies when it's not your turn.

So I suppose if Opportune Riposte triggered during your turn it would count towards/apply MAP.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Yes, that's correct. Being a Reaction doesn't change anything. Being outside of your turn does.


This is following the standard rules writing design of giving both a rule and an example or two.

Quote:
The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don't have to keep track of it if you can perform a Reactive Strike or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else's turn.

The example is not exhaustive. Reactive Strike is not the only reaction that lets you make an Attack action when it is not your turn.

The rule is that "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn".

Reactive Strike is just one example. Opportune Riposte is another reaction that would follow the same rule. As is Stand Still.


Finoan wrote:

This is following the standard rules writing design of giving both a rule and an example or two.

Quote:
The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don't have to keep track of it if you can perform a Reactive Strike or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else's turn.

The example is not exhaustive. Reactive Strike is not the only reaction that lets you make an Attack action when it is not your turn.

The rule is that "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn".

Btw what about MAP of several attacks during one someone else's turn? Like Flurry of Blows? Or several reactions on one turn (is it possible? maybe for fighter?)


Errenor wrote:
Btw what about MAP of several attacks during one someone else's turn? Like Flurry of Blows? Or several reactions on one turn (is it possible? maybe for fighter?)

The only thing like that that I have seen in play is from a Vrock that has a reaction that does 2 Strikes instead of only one.

Readied Flurry of Blows would run into the override in Ready. I would rule it that MAP applies normally during the reaction starting at the MAP stage that you had when you used Ready. So if you did Strike, Ready during your turn, and readied Flurry of Blows, then the triggered reaction would have you making your flurry strikes at -4 and -8 (assuming agile attacks).

I'm not aware of anything that will give Fighter or anyone else an extra reaction that can be used for Reactive Strike. ... I did just check and there is a feat - Reflexive Riposte - that gives Swashbuckler an extra reaction for Opportune Riposte.

So this is no longer an academic rules exercise.

From the rule: "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn" I would say that if you have multiple reactions that you can use to make attacks with or if your reaction lets you make multiple attacks (aside from Readied actions because of the override of the general rule), then MAP does not apply to any of the attacks. The Vrock is making both of their reaction attacks at no MAP penalty. As is the Swashbuckler using Riposte against multiple crit-failed attacks against them.


Yeah, MAP goes away when your turn ends. MAP applies when it's your turn. The question is then reduced to "when is the reaction triggered."


Interesting, I suppose you could trigger a readied strike on your turn and they could fumble and trigger Opportune Riposte. It seems odd that MAP might apply then but not right after your turn when they fumble.


Finoan wrote:
From the rule: "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn" I would say that if you have multiple reactions that you can use to make attacks with or if your reaction lets you make multiple attacks (aside from Readied actions because of the override of the general rule), then MAP does not apply to any of the attacks.

Yeah, this is explicit and clear. It's just they used 'a single turn' earlier and only after that wrote 'your turn'. But this is determinate.


Finoan wrote:
I'm not aware of anything that will give Fighter or anyone else an extra reaction that can be used for Reactive Strike. ... I did just check and there is a feat - Reflexive Riposte - that gives Swashbuckler an extra reaction for Opportune Riposte.

Tactical Reflexes, available at 10th, "At the start of each of your turns when you regain your actions, you gain an additional reaction that can be used only to make a Reactive Strike." Then, at 20th, Boundless Reprisals, "At the start of each enemy’s turn, you gain a reaction you can use only during that turn for any reaction from a fighter feat or class feature."

Also, apropos, Rogues can get Preparation to exchange one action for an additional reaction for any rogue reaction like Opportune Backstab.


Finoan wrote:

I'm not aware of anything that will give Fighter or anyone else an extra reaction that can be used for Reactive Strike. ... I did just check and there is a feat - Reflexive Riposte - that gives Swashbuckler an extra reaction for Opportune Riposte.

So this is no longer an academic rules exercise.

From the rule: "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn" I would say that if you have multiple reactions that you can use to make attacks with or if your reaction lets you make multiple attacks (aside from Readied actions because of the override of the general rule), then MAP does not apply to any of the attacks. The Vrock is making both of their reaction attacks at no MAP penalty. As is the Swashbuckler using Riposte against multiple crit-failed attacks against them.

Tactical Reflexes (aka Combat Reflexes) and Boundless Reprisal. It's possible for a level 20 Fighter to make 3 Reactive Strikes during a single foe's turn if they provoke enough times.

But yes, the rule applies the same: MAP doesn't apply to reactions taken when its not your turn, because its not your turn and it only applies during your turn.

(It never applies to Reactive Strike at all, but thats because Reactive Strike says so rather than due to the general rule.)

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