Poisons and similar items can't be used with unarmed attacks. The worst instance of this is probably the energy mutagen, which 'suffuses your body with energy that spills out of you whenever you attack'... but not if you're using an unarmed strike. This is because of the 'unarmed attacks aren't weapons, and effects and abilities that work with weapons never work with unarmed attacks unless they specifically say so' clause.
I wish there was more space for the poisonous natural attack fantasy. There are venomous unarmed stances now, but they only do a very small amount of poison damage. It would be great if there was an alchemist feat to support this play-style, especially for toxicologist which is supposed to be the poison user. We could have poison spine leshies, lethal nagaji spit, komodo dragon iruxi, and liquid death dripping from all manner of claws and fangs in general; a toxin-focused alchemist shouldn't be limited to blades, bows, and blowguns (and.. bullets??).
As of now, it seems I have to choose being limited to 1d4 gauntlets and reflavoring them or not using poison at all which is sad and disappointing.
Would this be too powerful? Am I overlooking something??
|
I don't think it's a balance thing, I think it's just an in-universe thing.
It is also worth noting that injury poisons don't work if you deal bludgeoning damage so a fist wouldn't work. But either way, if a player asked me to let them do it I'd probably say yes. It's not a big deal for some already fairly limited weapons to get to do another thing.
I have to agree with BotBrain that it's mainly an in-universe thing. I have to admit that pouring a poison on a body part breaks my suspension of disbelief. Yes, it's an injury poison, but being directly applied like that I would still expect it to affect the user, not allow it to poison opponents.
This goes in the category of topics where logical and critical thinking should be applied
as said above, even its considered an injury and not contact poison, applying them to unarmed attacks is a recipe for disaster
claws? chip a nail on your enemies armor and you are poisoned
teeth? dont even think about it it
horns? you want to risk is running down your forehead into your eyes?
even smaller ammounts of the poison being left after the use - or after the 'effective period' (i.e. the poison dries without effect on the nemy) expose the body to the poison
taking it in through the skin (or, imagine - taking a bath with a cut somewhere and the poison gets reactivated by the water)
if you want to use natural poison your options are (afaik)
nagaji - venom spit
venomous anadi heritage
and of course vishkanya who use weapons for their venom
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This goes in the category of topics where logical and critical thinking should be applied
as said above, even its considered an injury and not contact poison, applying them to unarmed attacks is a recipe for disaster
claws? chip a nail on your enemies armor and you are poisoned
Nick yourself while applying poison to a sword? Have it run off and get onto your exposed skin? Have some of it splash off into your eyes while you're swinging that weapon around at full speed? (Especially since with a feat it can already splash onto an adjacent target!)
This isn't just a thing that applies to unarmed attacks. I mean, is the idea that I can apply poison to claws that can kill things wearing plate armor really so much more unbelievable than the idea that I can safely apply poison to a sword in two seconds in the middle of combat?
This just doesn't feel like that big a deal to me considering how much of what the Alchemist can already do feels well outside what "critical thinking" would suggest is actually possible. It's a fantastical game, after all.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yup yup.
I've asked 2 GMs "hey, it doesn't work RaW, but would you let my PC use injury poisons on their talons?"
and both thought about it for a sec, then said ~"sure, go for it."
.
While knowing the RaW is important, IMO commenters here seem waaaay to scared to go off-book and homebrew stuff, especially when it can be seen as a "buff" like this.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Poison hand techniques are also a trope that could use more exploration. There's already cobra stance. A feat or feat line in alchemist would be neat to explore this further
Sounds like my fave kind of alchemist feat - the crazy ones.
"Your exposure to various toxins has infused your skin with poisonous properties" Writes itself, really.
This goes in the category of topics where logical and critical thinking should be applied
as said above, even its considered an injury and not contact poison, applying them to unarmed attacks is a recipe for disaster
claws? chip a nail on your enemies armor and you are poisoned
Nick yourself while applying poison to a sword? Have it run off and get onto your exposed skin? Have some of it splash off into your eyes while you're swinging that weapon around at full speed? (Especially since with a feat it can already splash onto an adjacent target!)
This isn't just a thing that applies to unarmed attacks. I mean, is the idea that I can apply poison to claws that can kill things wearing plate armor really so much more unbelievable than the idea that I can safely apply poison to a sword in two seconds in the middle of combat?
This just doesn't feel like that big a deal to me considering how much of what the Alchemist can already do feels well outside what "critical thinking" would suggest is actually possible. It's a fantastical game, after all.
I guess it's, as so often, a matter of perception
I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to apply poison mid battle without wearing some durable leather gloves to reduce the risk
(and alchemists are among the prime candidates to wear goggles)
and having the poison on weapons to pierce armor or go for weak points seems more believable then claws
working regulary with sharp tools, more or less dangerous chemicals and protective gear of different kind in my job (luckily not that often) marks the difference between our, lets call it cutoff points, drastically different
It may not directly help, but there's the poisonhide heritage and Envenomed Edge ancestry feat for the tripkee that can expand on the concept.