My idea here starts with a guide that is to be found at Zenith Guides called "Summoning Information - a guide to an alternate Eidolon" which champions the idea of creating your Eidolon as a ersatz Rogue and using the Summon Monster SLA boosted by feats for combat. Interesting and innovative.
This guide dates to 2013 so is talking of the original "chained" Summoner, which I will be doing here. In 2015 the Morphic Savant archetype was published.
My idea is that this archetype allows you to create three Eidolons, one a Rogue and two others that can be employed for other purposes, most obviously combat, at need. Great for flexibility. Morphic Monsters makes your SLA's more powerful and flexible.
I will quote the 3 changes made to a Summoner by the archetype with some comments of mine in italics.
"Eidolon of Chaos
A morphic savant’s eidolon must be of a chaotic alignment (if using the Unchained Summoner, the eidolon must have the azata, demon, or protean subtype). The morphic savant’s eidolon has three base forms: biped, quadruped, and serpentine. Each form has the same feats and skills, but has its own set of evolutions.
When the summoner meditates and regains his spell slots for the day, he can select any of the three base forms of his eidolon. The eidolon has 1 fewer evolution point than normal for an eidolon of the morphic savant’s summoner level, and has 1 fewer skill point per Hit Die.
This ability alters eidolon."
So you get 3 eidolon forms to select from each day. You can use the serpentine Eidolon as a Rogue or scout, a second as a traditional combat wombat and the third... On this I am undecided.
"Morphic Monsters
Since a morphic savant’s power is drawn from planar energies aligned with chaos, all the creatures he summons must be of a chaotic alignment.
If a creature would normally be celestial or fiendish, it is instead an entropic creature.
This also causes the morphic savant’s summoning power to be less reliable than a standard summoner‘s.
Each time he uses his summon monster spell-like ability to summon multiple creatures, there is a 50% chance he summons one more monster than normal for the summon monster spell he uses, in which case the creatures remain for only 1 round per level (instead of 1 minute per level).
Also, starting at 2nd level, the morphic savant can grant one 1-point evolution to all the creatures he summons with his summon monster spell-like ability. He can’t grant an evolution that duplicates the function of, or has the same name as, any ability the summoned creatures already possess (for example, he can’t grant a creature with a bite attack another bite attack), nor can he add an evolution that causes the summoned monsters to have more attacks than his eidolon‘s maximum number of attacks. The creatures do not have to be of the correct subtype to gain an evolution, but do have to meet any other prerequisites.
This ability alters summon monster."
The news starts bad as you can not summon creatures which are not chaotic, so no devils or elementals. A significant negative. Any summoned creature with a template gets the entropic template instead.
The fourth paragraph changes how your summons work, in an appropriately chaotic fashion. I think this does not change the power of the SLA.
Finally, at level 2 all of your summoned creatures gain a one point evolution. That is Evolved Summon Monster on each creature and technically you can select the Reach or Pounce evolutions. This is absolutely brilliant.
"Chaos Magic
A morphic savant gains the following bonus spells known at the listed spell level: 1st—protection from law, 2nd—shard of chaos, 3rd—magic circle against law, 4th—chaos hammer, 5th—dispel law, 6th—word of chaos. The morphic savant gains one fewer spell known per spell level for spell levels 1–6.
This ability alters the summoner’s spells known."
This is horrible. Effectively your 1st spell choice for each spell level is made for you and all the choices are horrible.
I am going to see if I get any responses before writing any more.
Keep in mind that not all trades are self contained. The 3 form eidolon is pretty good, so some of the other trades are lacking.
Morphic monsters is pretty rough though, but not because it forbids just lawful but neutral as well. That means you lose elementals, which is a big loss. At that point, I’m not sure if I’d focus as much on the summons anymore. There are some good chaotic options but it’s uneven and the expanded chaotic good ones are the best, which is weird flavor to me.
Chaos magic is lacking. It wouldn’t be too bad if those were powerful spells, but it comes off feeling more like a flavor tax. Damaging magic on a summoner could have been nice but these are too niche to fighting lawful creatures.
I toyed around with a similar concept a bit ago, specifically the 'one eidolon for different roles', but I never bothered to look into Morphic Master since once the Unchained Summoner came out, I've pretty much just focused on that.
I would suggest an alternative method for achieving this, one that doesn't sacrifice spellcasting, and actually has a better capacity for it.
See the Druid archetype: Elemental Ally. You get 4 elemental eidolons, each with their own feats and skills, but lose out on the Evolution points that a summoner grants. Its a fair trade in my books.
@ Melkiador
Nice to hear from you again.
I agree totally about chaos magic, it is vile.
I don't expect people to read the guide I referred to but it gives a lot of advantages and neat tricks to building your eidolon as an ersatz Rogue. The cost of getting 3 Eidolons is minimal 1 skill point and 1 evolution point. I believe having the other 2 dedicated to different uses, at least one for combat, this can be made much better than "nice". True your 3 Eidolons only have different base forms and evolutions, so you will have to make some compromises is how you build the 3.
On Morphic Monsters, you are right about the drawback. But the plus side is all of your summoned creatures gain a one point evolution. That is Evolved Summon Monster on each creature and technically you can select the Reach or Pounce evolutions.
That gives you back some versatility and a lot of raw power, especially when summoning multiple creatures. You only really need the 3 feats leading to Superior Summoning to turn this into a strong combat option.
I think if you play to the archetypes strengths you can make a character that is both powerful and very versatile. The paperwork involved does not bear thinking about however.
@ Deathless One -
An interesting but different idea. I am only really familiar with the original summoner and am presently playing in a campaign where full casters are not allowed.
When I had looked at the Elemental Ally archetype previously I had not been impressed as the Eidolons don't get any evolutions beyond those they start with.
But having a closer look in light of your suggestion, from a flexibility viewpoint they are much better than the Morphic Savant's, because-
1 There are 4 not 3
2 You can give each Eidolon a different base form and you can have different feats and skills for each &
3 There is no need to choose an Eidolon for the day, you can switch them as many times as you can use the summoning ritual.
As you say, the archetype leaves the Elemental Ally's spellcasting untouched. A fine idea all round.
For the moment I want to explore the Morphic Savant's possibilities with it's 3 more powerful Eidolons and Morphic Monsters.
For the moment I want to explore the Morphic Savant's possibilities with it's 3 more powerful Eidolons and Morphic Monsters.
Fair enough.
Whenever I approach situations like this, I always try to see if there is another archetype that stacks with the one I am considering, just to see if there is any synergy potential or something that just stands out to me as fitting a theme. In your instance... chaos.
Curiously enough, one does stand out to me though there a bit of a ... discrepancy. Twinner Summoner clearly alters (or limits) the base form of the Eidolon but doesn't say "This alters Eidolon" as Morphic Savant does, nor all the other archetypes that do. As for why it stands out to me ... there are now four different versions of yourself, two able to be present at once. And you can take the shared evolution evolution in order to modify your own capabilites (unique to the Twinned Summoner archetype).
Dunno if this helps any, but its seems like a chaotically fun thing to do.
What would help most is details of how to build the 3 eidolons at various levels. But your idea is very interesting.
Twinner Summoner clearly alters (or limits) the base form of the Eidolon but doesn't say "This alters Eidolon" as Morphic Savant does, nor all the other archetypes that do.
The legality of taking the 2 archetypes is open to question. It could be ruled that the omission of "This alters Eidolon" is an oversight as it obviously does. Also, it can be contested that having one Eidolon which is bipedal and having 3 archetypes of which one is bipedal and 2 are not does not make sense. That is up to the GM to rule on.
If allowed, the Twinned Summoner archetype comes in at around balanced, or a slight gain, in what it gains over what it gives up. And it spreads wondrous chaos.
And you can take the shared evolution evolution in order to modify your own capabilites (unique to the Twinned Summoner archetype).
I can't find this evolution.
Thanks I grok do u.
The legality of taking the 2 archetypes is open to question. It could be ruled that the omission of "This alters Eidolon" is an oversight as it obviously does. Also, it can be contested that having one Eidolon which is bipedal and having 3 archetypes of which one is bipedal and 2 are not does not make sense. That is up to the GM to rule on.
Of course. The GM always has final say. I merely presented it as an option.
What would help most is details of how to build the 3 eidolons at various levels. But your idea is very interesting.
I can really only offer basic suggestions here, as the base Summoner's Eidolons can get very complex and morphic with the evolutions. What I can offer is suggestions to how they go about fulfilling their roll(s).
Whichever form you have disabling traps, you certainly want the Skilled evolution for that racial bonus. Acrobatics is a skill that will be useful to all of your eidolon forms, so a feat Skill Focus (Acrobatics) won't be wasted. Blind-Fight will also be of use. Use Magic Device (and the Skilled Evolution/SkillFocus feat) won't go without use, provided you have the hands to manipulate the objects.
Personally, I find your first two options (Rogue/Scout and 'traditional combat wombat') to be spot on. For your third, consider building it to serve as some kind of mount, or otherwise suited for transport utility. Got a party member who can't climb or swim well? Let your utility Eidolon help. Make it cute and fluffy, so that it can serve some role in towns or role-play. Have fun with it.
I am going to have a stab at putting up some tentative builds. These are a 1st try. I am going to start at level 4 because that is when a mount type eidolon becomes feasible.
Skills, the 4 I get to add are designated with a -
-Acrobatics (Dex) 1
Bluff (Cha),
Craft (Int),
-Disable Device (Dex) 1
Knowledge (planes) (Int),1
Perception (Wis),1
Sense Motive (Wis)
-Sleight of Hand (Dex)1
Stealth (Dex) 3
-Use Magic Device (Cha) 3
Feats 2
Improved initiate
Second ???
Kali
The Biped, Combat Wombat Eidolon
Starting Statistics
Armor bonus +2
Bab +3
HD 3
Size Medium; Speed 30 ft.; AC +4 natural armor; Saves Fort (good), Ref (bad), Will (good); Attack 4 claws +6 to hit,damage (1d4)+3 and 1d6 electricity
Ability Scores Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions
Claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs).
Plus 7
Claws 1, limbs (arms)2, Improved NA +2 1, Magical Attacks 1, Pounce 1, Energy Attacks (claws) 1d6 electricity.
Totally unfinished from here.
The Quadruped, Ersatz Rogue Eidolon
Starting Statistics
Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Saves Fort (good), Ref (good), Will (bad); Attack bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions
Bite, limbs (legs) (2).
Wiggles
The Serpentine, Ersatz Rogue Eidolon
Starting Statistics
Armor bonus +2
Bab +3
HD 3
Starting Statistics
Size Medium; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Saves Fort (bad), Ref (good), Will (good); Attack bite (1d6), tail slap (1d6); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions
Bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, tail slap.
I can't change my last post any more, so I will complete the forms with separate posts.
Wiggles
The Serpentine, Ersatz Rogue Eidolon
Armor bonus +2 +1 size, +4 dex, +2 NA= 19
Bab +3
HD 3
Size = small
Size small; Speed 20 ft., climb 20 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Saves Fort (bad), Ref (good), Will (good); Attack bite +1 to hit (1d6)-1 damage, tail slap +1 to hit (1d6)-1 damage; Ability Scores Str 8, Dex 18, Con 11, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Free Evolutions
Bite, climb, reach (bite), tail, tail slap.
Chosen evolutions-
Gills 1, Swim 1, Flight 2, Skilled x3, Perception, Disable Device, Sleight of hand, 3
I am now in a position to play this archetype. I have retired a character in a 10th level modified kingmaker campaign and received GM permission to play a morphic savant.
So here goes. As I will be starting at level 10 you can ignore my last 2 posts.
I will start with the summoner, who is a half elf female by the name of Annacreon of Chaos. She wears the sign of chaos on her shield.
We have a 20 point buy, the 2 level +1 increases go into Cha of course.
Attributes
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 18
Traits
Irrepressible Benefit(s): You can use your Charisma modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier when attempting Will saving throws against charm and compulsion effects.
House of Green Mothers Pupil (Magic)
You studied at a center for druidic magic long enough to begin bonding with a familiar.
Feats
Skill Focus (Knowledge [planes]) Race bonus feat
Spell Focus (conjuration) Level 1
Augment Summoning, Level 3
Superior Summoning, Level 5
Familiar Bond Level 7,
Improved Familiar Air Wysp Level 9
[Intended] Versatile Summon Monster [Aerial and Dark templates]Level 11
Notes
Everything is provisional at present.
The thing that stands out to me as likely to be able to be improved upon is the last listed trait and last three listed feats are a big investment to obtain an Air Wysp familiar.
I did that with another character who was a master summoner aiming to obtain this feature of the Wysp-
Resonance (Ex)
A wysp's natural resonance strengthens the power of its element. The wysp grants a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls to all creatures within 30 feet with an elemental subtype that matches the wysp's, and to the DCs of all racial spell-like, supernatural, and extraordinary abilities of such creatures
I can't recommend that too highly for a master summoner. Being able to give your summoned animals +2 to hit and damage and flight from the aerial template is brilliant. But for a morphic savant, for whom the summon monster SLA is one of 4 options I suspect the investment is too great.
Bipedal Eidolon
Attributes
The starting value for an Eidolon of this type appears first, then various adjustments and a final figure
Str 16 +4 [2 level increases] +8 size=
Str 28
Dex 12 +4 [2 level increases] -2 size=
Dex 14
Con 13 +1 Att increase lvl 5 +4 size=
Con 18
Int 7 +1 Att increase lvl 10=
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 11
Skills
"An eidolon receives a number of skill ranks equal to 6 + its Intelligence modifier per HD" less one for archetype= 5 + its Intelligence modifier per HD. Which is-
[5-1]x 8 =32
Evolutions
Free Evolutions
Claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs).
Evolution Pool
14 [10th level] -1 archetype +2 Half-elf FCB (one of the best in the game)= 15
1 Claws
2 limbs (arms)
2 Energy attacks [electricity]
2 Grab [claws]
2 Rend- counts as an attack
4 Large
1 Skilled- perception
1 Improved NA +2