Rules during mounted combat

[Guy Ladouceur]

When a character is riding their mount, which has significantly weaker stats in this case (not that it honestly matters for the general question) and they are charging an enemy, and one of the enemies allies casts grease under the mount the mount is the one that would role its saving throw. Failure lands the mount as well as the character prone, is how I am reading the rules anyway. I ask this so as to get others thoughts on other actions that could possibly happen under the rules before the horse actually roles its saving throw and falls to the ground. These actions would be allowing the character riding the mount to role a ride check as a swift action, thus having the horse either dodge or jump over the grease spell. I wouldn`t normally allow this if its not a character that has a bond with their mount and doesn`t have any mounted feats, for in this case the character has multiple. I will include the stats for both the rider and the mount below.

SIR MARTIMUS THE LOST
XP 4,800
Male human fallen paladin of Muir 9
CE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +0; Perception +4
CR 8
AC 20, touch 10, fl at-footed 20 (+8 armor, +2 shield)
hp 99 (9d10+36 plus 9)
Fort +10; Ref +3; Will +8
Speed 20 ft.
Melee mwk lance +15/+10 (1d8+6/x3 plus disease) or +2
vicious heavy pick +15/+10 (1d6+4/x4 plus disease)
Special Attacks disease
Str 18, Dex 10, Con 19, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 6
Base Atk +9; CMB +13; CMD 23
Feats Lunge, Mounted Combat, Power AttackB, Ride-By
Attack, Spirited Charge, Weapon Focus (lance)
Skills Handle Animal +6, Heal +11, Intimidate +2, Knowledge
(local) +7, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Knowledge (religion) +6,
Perception +4, Ride +3
Languages Common, Dwarven
Gear battered half-plate, heavy steel shield, masterwork
lance, +2 vicious heavy pick
Disease (Ex) The Shakes: Contact; save DC 18; onset 1 day;
frequency 1/day; effect 1d8 Dex; cure 2 consecutive save.
The save DC is Constitution-based.
Martimus has suffered from the shakes for over 80 years.
The nature of his curse keeps him perpetually infected as a
carrier but will not let him deteriorate too far to function. Any
personal contact with Martimus, including being struck by
his weapons, risks infection and requires a Fortitude save.

HEAVY WARHORSE SKELETON
CR 1
XP 400
Advanced horse skeleton (Pathfi nder Roleplaying Game
Bestiary “Horse,” “Skeleton”)
NE Large undead
Init +9; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +0
AC 16, touch 14, fl at-footed 11 (+5 Dex, +2 natural, –1 size)
hp 9 (2d8)
Fort +0; Ref +5; Will +3
DR 5/bludgeoning; Immune cold, undead traits
Speed 50 ft.
Melee 2 hooves +5 (1d6+5) and bite +5 (1d4+5)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 2—, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +1; CMB +7; CMD 21 (25 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative

In this case it involves an NPC, but in another case involving a PC which had wings I have allowed them a fly check as an immediate action to catch themselves from being thrown into lava before they had to role a savings throw.

So basically my questions is, am I massaging the rules to much or are the rules actually made to do things such as these

[Name Violation]

The ability to make a ride check in place of a saving throw is a feat, Indomidible Mount

[Pizza Lord]

Guy Ladouceur wrote:

When a character is riding their mount, ... and they are charging an enemy, and one of the enemies allies casts grease under the mount the mount is the one that would role its saving throw.

When grease is cast, creatures within it (such as the one in your example where the mount is charging and someone, likely using a readied action, casts it under them) need to make a Reflex save. It will be the mount (with its +5 Reflex).

If the grease were already in place, the mount would need an Acrobatics check (DC 10) when it entered the grease. On a failure, it is stopped and then needs the Reflex save or it falls. If it fails the Acrobatics check by 5 (which it shouldn't, since it gets a +5 from Dex, but it might have barding or something else giving it a penalty), then it falls prone. If it passes, it is still reduced to half speed and that would wreck it's charge. I (meaning just me) would likely let the character opt to continue moving (as far as they want, accounting for the half speed) along the charge path, but they cannot take the charge attack at the end (still have the AC penalty).

Guy Ladouceur wrote:

Failure lands the mount as well as the character prone, is how I am reading the rules anyway.

If the mount fails, the rider will also fall prone. At best, they can attempt a Ride check for soft fall to take no damage from the fall. A kind GM may allow them to land on their feet with a good roll, but that's their call, but by that measure, I'd probably require an immediate save from them for the grease (if they landed in it) or they fall prone anyway.

Guy Ladouceur wrote:

I ask this so as to get others thoughts on other actions that could possibly happen under the rules before the horse actually roles its saving throw and falls to the ground. These actions would be allowing the character riding the mount to role a ride check as a swift action, thus having the horse either dodge or jump over the grease spell.

Looking at the feats in your example character, I see none that would have any effect on the mount making its save or skill check. At best the rider can soft fall. If the grease was in place and the rider knew about it, they could certainly have their mount jump over it with a Ride check likely. Most GM's will not allow you to charge while doing that however (maybe unless you had pounce or something similar).

Possible feats that could work would be Wheeling Charge where maybe if you suddenly saw the grease I would let you make the 90 degree turn at that point instead of where you planned. And I'd probably let you attack a target if it came into your reach (since it lets you make an attack at any point along the path).

Other than that, Indomitable Mount is the only thing I see that might work. It would let the rider use their Ride check in place of the Reflex save for the mount, so it will work if grease is cast in the mount's space. It won't help with the mount's Acrobatics check if it moves in after the spell is cast (but will help with the Reflex save if they fail the Acrobatics check by less than 5).

[Melkiador]

Quote:

If Your Mount Falls in Battle: If your mount falls, you have to succeed on a DC 15 Ride check to make a soft fall and take no damage. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of damage.

Quote:

Creatures that take lethal damage from a fall land in a prone position.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Another thing the rider could do would be to attempt a quick dismount. If the mount is charging that probably means it is the characters turn. So, as long as the character has a move action available, he might be able to dismount before the horse goes down.