Arcane Bond: Ring of Diamond Spray


Rules Questions


I'm going to be running a 7th level Svirfneblin Wizard, and would like to have his arcane bonded item be a Ring of Diamond Spray. What would I need to do to make it, and does anyone have any better ideas for a bonded ring? I was thinking of scenarios where I would be grappled or swallowed and wanted something offensive as an enchantment. I also considered Dimension Door as a get-out-of-jail-free option. Thanks for any feedback.


I should add that the Diamon Spray could only be cast from the ring once per day at caster level 7.

Shadow Lodge

Two key things to note:

  • Diamond Spray appears to be a D&D3.5 era spell that was never republished in PF1, so its availability is completely up to your GM, and
  • Creating any item not found on the existing magical items list would be a custom item and therefore completely up to your GM to determine if it is even possible. There are guidelines for pricing such an item, but many campaigns don't allow them at all...
You need to go over this idea with your GM...


Thank you. I will.

According to this: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/diamond-spray/

it can be found in:
Pathfinder 24: The Final Wish. Copyright 2009, Paizo Publishing, LLC;


to make a bonded object you just need to meet the crafter level requirements and should be able to cast the spells in the requirements. Ignore material composition of the bonded object.
Just take the RAW item's price and divide by 2 for your cost. This is the same as if you had the crafting feat.

ADVICE
rather than a ring go with a bonded object amulet, it should be an amulet of spell cunning with +3 SplLvls per day at 7th level and an amulet of spell mastery with +6 SplLvls per day at 11th level.
It can also act as an Aegis of recovery for +2250gp(=1.5*1500) then apply discount. Just review with your GM.

[non-PFS]diamond spray is an OGL item, it came with the use of 3.0/3.5 open gaming license. Early on PF had a lot of OGL content in products so a 2009 product with OGL stuff makes sense.


Azothath wrote:

to make a bonded object you just need to meet the crafter level requirements and should be able to cast the spells in the requirements. Ignore material composition of the bonded object.

Just take the RAW item's price and divide by 2, which is your usual cost with the crafting feat.

ADVICE
rather than a ring go with a bonded object amulet, it should be an amulet of spell cunning with +3 SplLvls per day at 7th level and an amulet of spell mastery with +6 SplLvls per day at 11th level.
It can also act as an Aegis of recovery for +2250gp(=1.5*1500) then apply discount. Just review with your GM.

[non-PFS]diamond spray is an OGL item, it came with the use of 3.0/3.5 open gaming license. Early on PF had a lot of OGL content in products so a 2009 product with OGL stuff makes sense.

Thank you. This is really very helpful. :)

The Exchange

Any custom ring that requires using the item creation rules is very much GM-dependent, so I'll offer you a couple of ideas of published rings. I'm assuming this is a one-shot at 7th level and you are using standard Wealth By Level of 23,500 gp.

1) Ring of Resistance is a good choice if you have a cloak you really want to wear other than the standard cloak of resistance.

2) Ring of Transposition can be a lot of fun. Not quite as "get out of jail free" as a real dimension door (kind of a jerk move to use it while in a [/i]black tentacles[/i]), but if a big bad melee ends up in your face you can say "Instead of you taking AoOs while I cast, how about if I put the barbarian where she can full attack you?"

3) Ring of Inner Fortitude would be very expensive, but is oh so useful.

4) Especially if this is going to be an ongoing campaign, Ring of Wizardry is extremely handy at half price.


Belafon
2) & 4) are out due to CL as it's above 7.

1) is okay but if you decide to trade a feat(Craft Wondrous) for cash savings you can do quite alright saving 50% on about 1/3 your gold for equipment.

3) with restoration it's +5 DC... but not bad for whittling away initial penalties.

as we've fully gone into Advice -
Items that can save you
Advice on how to play a wizard I reference 4 types of wizards and I'd suggest (in order); school specialist wizard (diviner, conjurer, evoker), Clr-VPriest1 Wiz6, Mage-killer Monk-Flow 2 Wiz-Diviner 5. The posted builds list a lot of equipment.

Liberty's Edge

Azothath wrote:

Belafon

2) & 4) are out due to CL as it's above 7.

Fully bypassable taking a +5 to the crafting DC.

FAQ wrote:

Crafting and Bypassing Requirements: What crafting requirements can you bypass by adding +5 to the DC of your Spellcraft check?

As presented on page 549 of the Core Rulebook, there are no limitations other than (1) you have to have the item creation feat, and (2) you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites. So racial requirements, specific spell requirements, math requirements (such as "caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus"), and so on, are all subject to the +5 DC rule.

I don't like it, as it makes crafting stuff too easy (and potentially allows the creation of Gems of Wishes at level 5, if you have the money and the GM permits them), but that is the RAW.


IF he were crafting, bonded object is a bit different. So you're out of bounds Diego. *tweet* play on

The Exchange

Azothath wrote:
IF he were crafting, bonded object is a bit different. So you're out of bounds Diego. *tweet* play on

I’m not seeing how it is different.

Wizard wrote:
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat.


1) "he adds abilites"
so it's not quite the same as crafting which is why RAW construction requirements (such as being mithral or platinum for flavor) can be ignored.

2) level issues. The CL of the item at times is independent of the spell req's and I've treated it as a requirement. 8^|
Crafting allows bypassing a spell for +5 DC but the section on crafting items of lesser CL implies it would drop to the spell if the if it is bypassed. So a CL:11 item would drop to CL:7 if the crafter were CL7 and the spell was 4th (requiring CL:7) and the DC goes up 5 for the spell, and my uncertainty is it goes up +5 for not meeting the CL of the item. 5+11+5+5=DC26 for an expected Spellcraft of +15 at 7th for a take 10 total of 25 which is less than 26. Thus my issue on this point.

Liberty's Edge

Azothath wrote:
I've treated it as a requirement.

What you do, like what I prefer, doesn't matter. What matters is whether it is RAW or not.

RAW says that you can bypass the CL requirement. Doing that only increases the DC by +5.


Belafon wrote:
Azothath wrote:
IF he were crafting, bonded object is a bit different. So you're out of bounds Diego. *tweet* play on

I’m not seeing how it is different.

Wizard wrote:
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat.

Continuing...

Arcane Bond wrote:
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger (see the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat in Feats).

Not exactly the issue being argued here, but to clarify, as there are 2 separate levels relevant to the discussion:

To add magic abilities to a ring (which would require Forge ring requires the wizard to be at least 7th level, but can then use the DC+5 crafting rules to add abilities above CL 7.

For arcane bonds:
Amulet - 3rd Level
Ring - 7th Level
Staff - 11th Level
Wand - 5th Level
Weapon - 5th Level

Carry on!


Thanks to everyone for the excellent consults. This has been extremely helpful.


Generically, you only have to meet the items CL spell completion and spell trigger items (and three times the plus for weapons and armour). For rings, you only have to meet the CL if it specifically says "you must have a CL of (whatever)" under the Construction Requirements. Neither the ring of wizardry nor ring of transposition have any such text, so CL is not a requirement. So, whether you can bypass a CL requirement with +5 to the craft DC is moot in this case: You don't need to, because no such requirement exists.

You do need to meet the CL of the item creation feat, and I don't think this is bypassable with +5 DC because it is not a requirement of the item, it is a requirement to use that part of the Bonded Item feature in the first place. But as I grok do u correctly points out that is always* going to be 7 for a ring.

(* Theoretically it is possible for an item to require Forge Ring and another item creation feat, but I cannot think of any OTTOMH and in any case the most of the other CL requirements are lower - an item requiring Forge Ring and Craft Staff seems unlikely.)

Liberty's Edge

glass wrote:
You do need to meet the CL of the item creation feat, and I don't think this is bypassable with +5 DC because it is not a requirement of the item, it is a requirement to use that part of the Bonded Item feature in the first place. But as I grok do u correctly points out that is always* going to be 7 for a ring.
[quote"CRB]A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat.

You can't bypass that CL because it is a prerequisite for Arcane Bond to work like Craft Ring.

Without Arcane Bond you don't have the Craft Ring feat unless you take it separately when you get CL 7.


Diego Rossi wrote:
glass wrote:
You do need to meet the CL of the item creation feat, and I don't think this is bypassable with +5 DC because it is not a requirement of the item, it is a requirement to use that part of the Bonded Item feature in the first place. But as I grok do u correctly points out that is always* going to be 7 for a ring.
CRB wrote:
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat.

You can't bypass that CL because it is a prerequisite for Arcane Bond to work like Craft Ring.

Without Arcane Bond you don't have the Craft Ring feat unless you take it separately when you get CL 7.

The tone of your post seems to suggest that you disagree, but AFAICT the content is just repeating what I said back to me. What am I missing?

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