Mass Combat


Advice


I will be running Kingmaker and am dissatisfied with the current mass combat rules. One of the modifications I am considering is treating the army like a Starcraft spaceship. Multiple positions that can make decisions and rolls that affect the army.

Ideally there would be at least 4 such positions, aside from the commander.
Currently I am thinking of an operations officer that can grant rerolls and a supply officer that can grant minor healing to units. Any thoughts on other positions and what rolls they would make to gain the benefits are greatly appreciated.


thorin001 wrote:
I will be running Kingmaker and am dissatisfied with the current mass combat rules...

you are not alone... Ult Cmpgn, Mass Combat rulez


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If you haven't already, you may want to look at the updated systems from Ultimate Campaign for kingdom building and mass combat. The systems in Ultimate Campaign provide better balance and more options than the systems in the PF1 Kingmaker AP.

Alternately, for a more narrative style of play, you could run battles as a heist from Ultimate Intrigue. Instead of focusing on the armies, the focus is on the leaders (the PCs) overcoming (or not) the critical challenges that swing the battle one way or the other. Many adventures/APs use this method rather than actual mass combat rules; you could also "borrow" the PF2 victory points to use in the heist structure.


Azothath wrote:
thorin001 wrote:
I will be running Kingmaker and am dissatisfied with the current mass combat rules...
you are not alone... Ult Cmpgn, Mass Combat rulez

Got those. Still not impressed.


Dragonchess Player wrote:

If you haven't already, you may want to look at the updated systems from Ultimate Campaign for kingdom building and mass combat. The systems in Ultimate Campaign provide better balance and more options than the systems in the PF1 Kingmaker AP.

Alternately, for a more narrative style of play, you could run battles as a heist from Ultimate Intrigue. Instead of focusing on the armies, the focus is on the leaders (the PCs) overcoming (or not) the critical challenges that swing the battle one way or the other. Many adventures/APs use this method rather than actual mass combat rules; you could also "borrow" the PF2 victory points to use in the heist structure.

That was my other option. But I also want to have an option available if my players want to be more active in controlling armies.


Well, you can set up some bonus strategies with a choice of one per round. (more along the Mass Combat Boons or Heist line) OM, DV, Morale...
a) an AC's & hp damage target to complete for an army commander to gain a OM & DV bonus for his army, or span 2-3 round leaving the army on its own. Ex) {values typical of foe's army} AC:22 HP:30, rst[acd, cold, fire]/10 F:+10, R:+8, W:+8. It may take 1 rnd or 3... spells are acceptable.
b) an AC target for an army commander to gain a OM bonus for his army.
c) a skill check DC for an army commander to gain a DV bonus for his army.
d) expend $2000 for OM, DV, Morl for the round. {just an idea, pick a number}
e) expend X spell levels for OM, DV, or Morl...


I like how its being taken care of in Reign of Winter Book 5, where each unit f soldiers are basically a giant swarm.


I'm not fond of the mass combat rules, either.

Personally, I'd rather see a system that used the Troop subtype as a starting point on how to represent an army's units.

I would port over the concept of tactics from the mass combat rules, but refine it so that it provided bonuses or penalties appropriate to the templates used by a Troop. Tactics would be selected by commanders. Skill checks (and/or ability score checks), with DCs reflecting the battlefield's conditions and other factors, would determine how effectively these were conveyed to subordinate commanders (or directly to a Troop if only one Troop is under their command). I would incorporate Morale, but probably as a Will save modified by bonuses or penalties appropriate to the conditions of the battle and the commander's (and/or sub-commander's) leadership ability.

Troops would be able to use the feats normally available to the majority of the individual soldiers assigned to it.

Concepts like flanking would apply to Troops, but would actually depend on their positioning or the formation shape an individual Troop took on the battlefield.

I'm not sure that I would use the advertised Troop hit dice or damage dice. I think I would base the HD on the level of the individual average soldier that made up the Troop, modified by the size of the Troop. So, say, a Troop is normally a squad (or whatever you want to call it) of 10 creatures and uses the normal HD for one of said creatures. A company (or whatever you want to call it), will have 3 times the normal HD (or whatever).

A Troop will have the speed, bonuses, and damage dice of the individual average soldier that made up the Troop. E.g., a Troop of 1st level Warriors armed with spears will have 8 HP, AC 17, a +3 attack bonus and do 1d8+3 points of damage. A Troop of Lastwall Border Scouts (4th level Rangers) will mop the floor with them.

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