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So I seen a ton of things from War of Immortals and i got to ask this very simple question. Why does Mythic not interact with Kineticist? I know Paizo said they would fix this but it has been a while and they have yet to mention a quick errate for Kineticist and Impulses. On top of that not only did Kineticist get the shaft again mind you but a good class decided to join Kineticist upon the shelf. Does Paizo forget Impulses aren't spells and the Kinetic Blast isn't a cantrip or something?
Why is the level 10 Mythic Feats (Mythic Cast & Mythic Strike) not compatible with the Magus's Spellstrike class feature? Am I the only one who notices this or am I going mad? You can't seen to attack using Mythic proficiency using Spellstrike which I guess Mythic Spells at level 8 is good since it let you cast a handful o bonus spells at highest rank you can cast at Mythic Proficiency but anyone can do that and with int being something you neglect on many Magus builds would this even be useful?
I actually kind of like mythic spells on the Magus. The fact that it gives you the +10 proficiency no matter what is really nice on a class that has a somewhat delayed proficiency. Though it would be pretty cool if you could mythic spellstrike, I don't think it dumpsters the class though.
TBH the fact that Mythic Strike isn't compatible with any strike action kind of devalues it for a bunch of builds, I'm not really a huge fan of the design choice.
Oh yeah that is a big point right there, I didn't even consider that. Mythic Strike is a special Strike action which in itself doesn't work with many builds, wow that devalues it quite a big compared to Mythic Cast or Mythic Spells. You can't combine it with Exemplar Transcendence effects, Vicious Swing, Twin takedown, or any spell Strike action, meaning, Fighters, Champions, Barbarian, Rogues and Investigators get the most of the feature.
Oh yeah that is a big point right there, I didn't even consider that. Mythic Strike is a special Strike action which in itself doesn't work with many builds, wow that devalues it quite a big compared to Mythic Cast or Mythic Spells. You can't combine it with Exemplar Transcendence effects, Vicious Swing, Twin takedown, or any spell Strike action, meaning, Fighters, Champions, Barbarian, Rogues and Investigators get the most of the feature.
It's worth noting that some Exemplar does have a few weapon transcendence effects that aren't meta-strikes, and so work just fine. "Heal half of last action's attack" from Barrow's Edge is great, because the greater crit chance means more opportunities to heal more. Noble Branch is just extra guaranteed damage. So Exemplar does play pretty nicely with mythic power.
Hopefully both classes' respective books get a remaster too in the foreseeable future, not unlike Guns and Gears for early next year...
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I mean, is there a mythic Alchemy action? Quick Bomber is not a vanilla Strike, and Alchemist does not get spells.
Or a mythic Hunted Shot?
Most Strike-using classes either start with, or seek to obtain, a form of enhanced or compressed Strike.
We can understand that classes like Magus, Alchemist, and Ranger will be unable to take advantage of the mechanic as well as other classes, but the existence of some inequity does not mean that something is "too far."
I do think other posts have presented an argument that Kineticist is within the "too far" range of mythic incompatibility, and needs some direct attention.
However, I do think the Magus is an odd example to cite, when there are classes like Monk or Ranger that always want to prioritize a super-Strike before a raw Strike.
Hybrids benefit more from gaining a flat prof, blah blah, etc ect.
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However, while I do agree there is no-bueno inequity among the classes via these rules, IMO all of those problems pale in comparison to the issues brought about by the foe-side mythic rules.
IMO the mythic immunities and resistances are at minimum absurdly antifun, and likely are balance-breaking. Like, D&D's legendary resistance earns plenty of grumbles when foes to simply ignore big spells, but that mechanic is "one and done" where it's used and gone.
Paizo's form of mythic is arguably *worse,* it requires the PC spend of a super hero point to bypass an immunity for a single act. IMO, the as-written foe mythic defenses are honestly close to a disaster of design that will be hell to play.
If you thought the urge to save a hero point to avoid those 1-roll-deaths was an issue, wait until every corner you turn could have a mythic foe immune to your main strategy outright.
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I just had a fight in an AP where we could not avoid a foe getting charged, whereupon they gained resistance 20 to phys, and resistance 10 to all else. Even with all the means available to us at level 12, this fight was unfun hell. The Monk could never land both Flurry hits to help overcome the resistance, my Alch damage over time and Blood in the Water was doing 1 or 0 dmg due to save-for-half. And all the low level NPCs were doing better at chipping her down with Disrupt Undead's 6ds being all one dmg type, while martials rune-mixed damage meant their 3d_ +_ could almost never break the 20 resistance.
Our Sorcerer did what they could with mono-dmg spells, and the Barb got a crit or two that really helped.
It was not fun, it did not feel epic mythic. It felt like the foe had a cheat code.
An undead outright resisting positive, force, etc. Even though I adapted and used Gouging Claw to actually get some dmg on the board, it was not fun. The level gap meant we were all one un/lucky crit from dropping dying 2, and the gap also meant that the luck didn't need to be that strong for it to happen.
Flat resistances and save upgrading are the two most "dangerous" mechanics to play with from a balance perspective, and I cannot fathom that this far into pf2's lifespan, with all the time for lessons learned, even from outside discussions like D&D legendary resistance, and they still chose this system where mythic foes will "no-sell" and "nuh-uh, that doesn't work against me!"
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Honestly, even if Paizo gives Kineticist support for mythic by giving them +3 gate attenuator or access to Mythic Kineticist DC, they're still absolutely disadvantaged due to Mythic Resilience being a thing. Kineticists in particular are hit super hard by this since they mostly target Fortitude/Reflex, so a monster with resilience in even one of these is going to screw them over really hard.
That would not be great if the kineticist doesn't work with mythic rules or spellstrike.
One point worth noting is that the Correct the Story feat 6 works if an enemy critically succeeds at saving throw - it doesn't say rolls one, so if they got the upgrade vs Mythic Resilience on a regular save you can still force a reroll and hope for a crit fail (upgraded to fail and regular damage) or fail (upgraded to success and half damage) on their reroll.
It's not great, but it's something. You've also still got your passive hazardous terrain effects and walls and stuff.
Honestly the Kineticist, the go all day against weak to moderate encounters class with infinite ammo that isn't super optimized, was probably never going to be a great for mythic fights against challenging supercharged foes who absorb a lot of damage.
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I really wish the Mythic Rules were a thing we had gotten to playtest. Things like "um, this doesn't work with my favorite class when it probably should" get spotted pretty quickly that way.
Yeah, mythic certainly feels like something that needed a playtest.
Its like everybody has their own complaint about mythic and it feels like nobody is pleased with it.
That's fair, though I certainly do have problems with it after reading the book and those aren't problems that could be solved with errata. Rewrite Fate is, like, the absolutely best thing about mythic until the 12th-level mythic paths, with the callings and most of the low level mythic feats feeling like glorified skill feats that do the same thing that Rewrite Fate does but more limited for whatever reason. For example, if I have Acrobat's Calling I can spend a point to to make most Acrobatics checks with mythic proficiency, but Rewrite Fate allows me to reroll any skill check or saving throw with mythic proficiency, which is arguably the same thing but better. You could arguably use both in a single check by spending two mythic points, but isn't that too much of an overkill? Not to mention mythic characters lose access to hero points too. Not to mention that I would have personally took all the page space of callings and just have mythic characters select a skill and allow them to spend mythic points to roll with mythic proficiency and regain a mythic point when they crit with it, rather than print like 10 or so callings that do exactly that but with one skill (or most of the actions of a skill) instead.
That or replace callings and Rewrite Fate with the old mythic paths from PF1e with each allowing you to roll or receive mythic proficiency for a single specific check (archmage would with spell attacks and DCs, champion with weapon and unarmed attacks, guardian with AC and saves, and trickster with skills. I don't know what hierophant and marshal could do honestly. Hierophant could be mythic HP and marshal gain a mythic action or something like that I guess).
I get that Paizo probably didn't want to have mythic being a direct upgrade like it was in PF1e, but the strongest thing about mythic (for most of your career at least) is Rewrite Fate which allows you to go from trained to mythic a couple of times per day, because even when mythic paths are really flavorful and interesting they aren't really that strong either. Certainly above average, but there's certain builds that if you were given the choice to take mythic or free archetype some would take free archetype instead. In a way giving free Exemplar Dedication is a much better and simplified way of having mythic characters.
This in a nut shell. Until you get to level 6, the Callings and level 2 and 4 feats feel oddly to specific or underpowered for me to want ot take them. Not to mention there is no Grapple Calling or abilities but one that requires an ally to already have the enemy grabbed. What's up with that one anyways? Correct the story is incredibly powerful to above crits on anyone possible by having the enemy reroll their attack is wonderful and Divert Destiny is also really good... My problem is Caretaker's Calling and Risky Surgery is a no brainer choice. Once you hit level 8 as much as I want to say Mythic Magic is great...
Summon Mythic Power is such a staple that honestly at level 8 I think all Mythic Characters should just have the Mythic Point Pool increased to 4. Once a day you just gain 1 extra Mythic Point, it's almost...no it is as powerful as Caretaker's Calling + Risky Surgery, giving you 5 Mythic Points to play with in an session if not more since you can regain 2 per day in game time.
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That is what everyone is saying, it is weird that we didn't playtest what might be the most important ruleset outside of classes. It seem really odd and then as I stated nothing plays with Kineticist which needs to be fixed ASAP, or else any Mythic Adventure Paths will be Kineticistless. It's weird, in a normal non-mythic/dual-class game Kineticist is great. This REALLY needed playtesting. The Callings aren't good and there is barely any suppose for grappling.
Another thing I would probably homebrew myself about callings once I think more about it and see how mythic actually plays is to, instead, allow characters to roll the skill actions of their calling without having to spend mythic points but only a certain number of times per day. As I said in my earlier comment, I just don't understand why Rewrite Fate and callings have such a mechanical overlap when the one that everyone has access to is the obviously better and stronger ability rather than the ones that are more limited and "unique" to each character.
Straight up mythic rolls without spending points would obviously be too much because characters would permamently go from 0 to a 100 with a skill in the low levels, so limiting it to a few times per day but as its own resource so mythic characters can use their mythic points for their other mythic abilities makes sense to me, specially in the high levels when rolling a skill with mythic proficiency isn't that big of a deal anymore. However, how many times per day would be okay and how would it increase its daily uses, if at all? I'm thinking something like 1/day at the start and increasing by 1 every two mythic feats or something like that, up to 3 times per day.
I'd probably make it so at 20th level you just have mythic proficiency in that skill permamently. That feels, in a sense, like a logical progression for a mythic character to eventually have a permament mythic skill. It wouldn't matter for 99% of campaigns since most would end at that point, but it would be a neat ribbon feature.
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Yeah, mythic certainly feels like something that needed a playtest.
Its like everybody has their own complaint about mythic and it feels like nobody is pleased with it.
So Paizo has successfully replicated the 1e Mythic experience then.
(I love 1e Mythic. But you can't just use it out of the box -- you have to be very deliberate about what you allow and what you don't because certain pieces only work in certain types of games.)
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From what I've heard of elsewhere, they did test it privately, but apparently main reason why they don't public playtest subsystems is that subsystems tend to attract much less attention and feedback than classes do thus it can be more useful to get deeper feedback from private playtests as result because public playtest feedback sample size might be too small for the feeback to be useful? I might be misunderstanding though of what I heard due to telephone game though
Anyhoo, I do want to note that there IS use for using mythic proficiency for single roll (besides that you can then also use second mythic point to have reroll be mythic proficiency roll as well) and that's because it allows you to benefit from things like legendary proficiency effects from skill feats that scale. (so if you want to be silly, you can roll diplomacy vs 100 creatures with group impression)
(also feel like based on conversations from discord, most of mythic conversation is more of being excited with mechanics than complaining about it)