What's your opinion on allowing a Rogue 1/Magus (Greensting Slayer) 3, qualify for Arcane Trickster? He can cast 2nd level Arcane spells, has Mage Hand, all skill requirements, and (by spending an arcane point) +2d6 sneak attack...(1d6 from rogue, 1d6 from arcana)...
Accomplished Sneak Attacker is maybe more favored for early access.
It's questionable that two sources of sneak attack stack like that for purposes of prerequisites.
You also probably wouldn't want entry with magus, because they don't have full level 9 spell casting. 1 Rogue + 3 Wizard +Accomplished Sneak Attacker just gets you there so much smoother, while giving you "better" options.
My opinion on the matter: You need the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat to qualify, as the arcane point spent to get extra damage wouldn't fit a more or less 'permanent' ability you possess. I base that conclusion on magic items (like a headband) that grant you a bonus to an ability score only treating that bonus as temporary until it is worn for 24 hours. If you had a means to get yourself that +1d6 sneak attack for a whole 24+ hours, I'd be of the opinion that you are good to go.
I'm pretty much in agreement with Melkiador on the matter, especially with the class selections. You'd probably be happier with an Eldritch Scoundrel Unchained Rogue and the VMC option for Magus, or a Rogue+Blade Adept Arcanist (though the later has later entry).
Sorry, I think I'm missing something here, how is a Magus 3 casting 2nd level spells?
I just skipped over that error because it ultimately didn’t matter to my final conclusion. But yeah, you’d need 4 of magus to get the 2nd level spells.
I just skipped over that error because it ultimately didn’t matter to my final conclusion. But yeah, you’d need 4 of magus to get the 2nd level spells.
This was my process as well. I did consider, briefly, that they might be using some of the older methods that allowed for someone to count as having higher level spell slots for early entry shenanigans, but it wasn't really worth mentioning as those got shot down a long time ago.
The big problem with using the arcana to qualify for arcane trickster is that after you make the melee attack you no longer have the sneak attack. The rules state when you can no longer meet the prerequisite of something you don’t lose it, but you no longer gain the benefits of the game feature. The example is if you no longer have 13 STR you don’t lose the feat power attack but cannot use power attack or anything that has power attack as a prerequisite.
Since 2d6 sneak attack is the prerequisite for the prestige class you can no longer use any of the features of the prestige class until you do meet the requirement. That would mean you only gain any of the class features of arcane trickster while you are using the extra sneak attack die from spending the arcana. Once the attack is finished you lose all benefits of the prestige class which would include BAB, HD caster level, skills, feats and so on. The rules also state you cannot use the class features of the prestige class to meet the prerequisite of the prestige class. So, the extra dice from arcane trickster will not count for qualifying for arcane trickster.
Sorry, but this does not work.
Interesting takes. I confess, I didn't think the spell gain through... quite right, waiting til 4th level as a Magus.
Personally, I'd allow Arcane Trickster that way, after all, that's a pretty weak Prestige (most are). Last time I had someone play an Arcane Trickster, we just made it into a 20-level class of its own. But for now, we were just spitballing if there was a way to achieve Arcane Trickster by 5th level without doing any other multi-classing.
But, seems you need to dip Rogue as an Arcane class, to get Trickster by 5th level (using Accomplished Sneak Attacker, of course).
a somewhat reflection to the prestige class can be found in the Eldritch scoundrel rouge aretype. it goes all the way to level 20, get less sneak attacks but keep his caster level.
if your'e not locked down on spell casting a reasonable replacement that I like for a 'magic powered' themed rouge is the Sylvan trickster. Getting hexs (and later on major and grand hex) without giving up sneak attack is a great power.
There are a lot of alternatives for a magical rogue that is often better than a multiclassed rogue. It really depends on what you want out of the class. Probably the best is Archaeologist Bard. They do not get combat spells or sneak attack, but for trickery they cannot be beat. If you want combat spells and sneak attack the eldritch scoundrel gives you that. For a divine version of a magical rogue a Sanctified Slayer inquisitor works incredibly well. The Investigator is a full 20th level alchemy based magical rogue straight out of the box. The Questioner archetype makes it a spell caster by swapping alchemy for the bards spell list.
The arcane trickster is not that good of a class, but instead of looking for early entry tricks a better idea would be to look for a better class.
The biggest draw of the Arcane Trickster class is the ability to sneak attack with any spell (even fireball), though Invisible Thief and Tricky Spells both deserve a decent nod.
I've made an Eldritch Scoundrel 4 / Arcane Trickster 10 before. They work very well, even with being limited to 6th level spells. Just slap a VMC Magus on the build and you've got your issues with attack bonus handled, so long as you either continue Eldritch Scoundrel levels, or better yet, take levels in Eldritch Knight.