Qu: Can the Figment Cantrip give off light?

[patrickbdunlap]

Question about the cantrip: Figment. If you are creating an illusion of something that normally would give off light, would the illusion give off light?

Ex: A torch in a dark room. Would you be able to see with the illusion, where you normally would not?

And if, yes, does that light end at the 5' area effect or is it considered an emanation from the effect, like sound is?

Thank you for any replies.

[Agonarchy]

The stricter reading would be that you create an illusion of light, which wouldn't actually be able to illuminate anything. It might be "visible" but it wouldn't actually function as light, but more like a weird graphical detail in the darkness.

A bit like the "lights" we see when we close our eyes.

[pauljathome]

I think I'd allow it in a home game but not in PFS.

The fact that it is sustained compensates for the fact that you're trying to have 1 cantrip do the work of 2.

[patrickbdunlap]

Agonarchy wrote:

The stricter reading would be that you create an illusion of light, which wouldn't actually be able to illuminate anything. It might be "visible" but it wouldn't actually function as light, but more like a weird graphical detail in the darkness.

A bit like the "lights" we see when we close our eyes.

Well here is my thought, if you had an actual object, a light source would have to bounce off of it, back to the observers eyes, so it's the other light source that produces the light. But with the illusion, the illusion would have to produce the actual light as there is nothing for the light waves to bounce off of.

It's why I mentioned the sound since both light energy (EM) and sound (kinetic) energy are both just different wave. For the illusion to work, it has to actually produce both these waves.

The spell clearly notes that beyond 15', the sound is undetailed, meaning you can still hear it past it's 5' AOE, and, by assumption, beyond 15' like normal sound.

In the end, it's magic but I do like to try and understand what is actually happening with the effects to best use these abilities.

Thank you for the reply.

[QuidEst]

This is one of those things completely up to a GM. Illusions defitely don't follow normal optics rules, since Invisibility doesn't make the subject blind.

My general approach is "illusory light"- it can be seen normally, but stops illuminating objects outside the spell's affected area- in Figment's case, outside the square. There's nothing in the rules to support that, though, or any particular approach, really.

[pH unbalanced]

Based solely on the fact that the Remaster replaced the Tangible Dream Psychic's cantrip Dancing Lights with Figment, I would allow it to give off the equivalent of candlelight. (Dim light in a 20 ft radius). Especally if you had built a character depending on that for visibility.

By strict RAW I would say it would glow (be itself visible in dim light/darkness) but not shed light in a radius.

[Errenor]

patrickbdunlap wrote:

It's why I mentioned the sound since both light energy (EM) and sound (kinetic) energy are both just different wave. For the illusion to work, it has to actually produce both these waves.

[Noting we discuss how magic work which is not always healthy] Or illusions do neither of those things ever, because being illusions they just directly project relevant sensations into observing creatures. And when surroundings aren't part of an illusion it can't project sensation of seeing those surroundings.

Well, unless it's a particularly powerful and complex illusion which explicitly does this I guess. Which Figment isn't.