Can I use Battlecry and Avoid Notice to roll Stealth for Initiative together, or does one preclude the other?
Could I use abilities such as Spring From the Shadows or Sneak with Battlecry? Why or why not?
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Battle Cry seems to have two parts. Part 1 is a free action Demoralize when you roll initiative. Part 2 is a reaction Demoralize when you crit on an attack roll (Strike or Spell Attack both look like they would work).
Avoid Notice is what you are doing before you roll initiative. I don't find a problem with using Battle Cry as you roll initiative, even if you are rolling Stealth for initiative. Though I may rule that it breaks any unnoticed condition you may or may not have since it is taking an action other than Hide, Sneak, or Step.
Spring From the Shadows would work with the part 2 of Battle Cry (as long as you qualify to have access to that part). If you crit with the Strike, then you could use your reaction to Demoralize. You probably wouldn't use Spring From the Shadows with rolling initiative.
Sneak doesn't interact at all. You can hide and sneak after using Battle Cry just like you can after casting Sound Burst. You can hide and sneak before using Battle Cry too, but neither Hide or Sneak involves rolling initiative or making an attack roll, so neither will trigger either form of Battle Cry.
Can I use Battlecry and Avoid Notice to roll Stealth for Initiative together, or does one preclude the other?
Could I use abilities such as Spring From the Shadows or Sneak with Battlecry? Why or why not?
Hmm...
Screaming at someone as you leap out from hiding works, but then trying to hide without first pulling a disappearing act... I'm not sure. I think it depends on how much your GM likes Batman.
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Roll Stealth for Initiative and then Battlecry? Sure.
Obviously, you'll no longer be undetected if that stealth roll was good, since you're giving away your location with that not-at-all stealthy battle cry. If the enemies couldn't hear you, and you didn't give away your location, then the Demoralize wouldn't work, because it is Auditory.
Spring From The Shadows requires you to be Hidden or Undetected to the target before you use it, so you could use it only if there was a reason for you to still be Hidden after giving away your location (like if you were in a place the target couldn't perceive with a precise sense, were invisible, etc).
Hmm...
Screaming at someone as you leap out from hiding works, but then trying to hide without first pulling a disappearing act... I'm not sure. I think it depends on how much your GM likes Batman.
The less noisy way is to use Intimidating Glare with the Battle Cry Demoralize. However, the visual trait means it would be just as overt.
Can you use Intimidating Glare to Battlecry?
IG isn't limited to only standard Demoralize attempts?
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Can you use Intimidating Glare to Battlecry?
IG isn't limited to only standard Demoralize attempts?
Intimidating Glare isn't its own action or activity. So I also don't see it as using the standard Demoralize as a subordinate action.
So instead I see it as an optional modification to any Demoralize action that you use - even ones used as a subordinate action of another action such as Battle Cry.
I also think you could use Intimidating Glare with You're Next.
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Intimidating Glare is also not compatible with remaining Undetected, of course. It makes your Demoralize Visual, so if they can't see you, you can't Demoralize them.
I agree with those who are saying planning to use Battle Cry after using Avoid Notice doesn't seem precluded by the rules.
It's a bit meta-gamey (because you're trying to avoid using your [likely worse] Perception and instead use Stealth) but it's not too bad. Plus there is some justification of "sneaking up on the enemy only to scare the crap out of them".
And like the others I would definitely rule regardless of anything else, after the Battle Cry, whether you Intimidating Glare or anything like that you're going to be obviously noticed by everyone who can see or hear the battlefield.
It's a bit meta-gamey (because you're trying to avoid using your [likely worse] Perception and instead use Stealth) but it's not too bad. Plus there is some justification of "sneaking up on the enemy only to scare the crap out of them".
I think the most meta-gamey part is that Battle Cry happens as part of the initiative roll. Which means that the character using Battle Cry may not have their turn come up for a while.
To an extent, that is just part of the Battle Cry action and rules. The same metagame problem happens if you aren't using Stealth. Initiative rolls, Battle Cry happens, character stands there and tanks hits from several enemies before their turn happens.
It does seem a bit more strange to do that while also saying that you are hiding behind a barrel.
I could see as a houserule that the Battle Cry action is a free action triggered by your first turn starting. It is a bit of a nerf though. Your allies won't get the benefit of the Demoralize if they or some enemies attacking them happen to go before you in initiative. It also conflicts with other actions triggered by the start of a turn. The benefit being that you would stay hidden until your turn comes up and Battle Cry is still available.
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I would probably just use it RAW, not much to win trying to "does it make sense in real life" for rules, better to find scenarios/descriptions to make the scene rule compliant.
Hearing an intimidating cry but not being able to locate it.
Or seeing a frightening face glaring at you, then vanishing into the shadows again, being hidden instead of undetected.
Its a bit of a stretch, but not enough to houserule it.
I would probably just use it RAW, not much to win trying to "does it make sense in real life" for rules, better to find scenarios/descriptions to make the scene rule compliant.
Hearing an intimidating cry but not being able to locate it.
Or seeing a frightening face glaring at you, then vanishing into the shadows again, being hidden instead of undetected.
Its a bit of a stretch, but not enough to houserule it.
Indeed. Characters being unnerved by seemingly disembodied voices or ethereal noises is kind of a common trope in fantasy.
I think Battlecry from hiding could represent that quite well with a lenient GM.
Indeed. Characters being unnerved by seemingly disembodied voices or ethereal noises is kind of a common trope in fantasy.Yeah, sure, and it's represented by lvl 8 class feat: Eerie Environs So, we know 'there's a feat for this so this doesn't work without it' is wrong. But 'there's a feat for that so this should be worse without it' is still valid.
Or Figment (with a different aim).
But a 7lvl skill feat made for a different case is not enough.
That's only really useful for people who happen to have Dark Archives, or are otherwise aware of the feats existence though.
Take care not to be that guy who tells others their playstyle is badwrongfun; your post comes pretty close to crossing that line.
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What puts a crimp on "Battle Cry from behind a boulder and thus staying hidden" is that Battle Cry requires your target be "an observed foe" and so that'll be hard to pull off without being observable yourself.
Concealed also works for hiding in, and it doesn't break observed conditions. You can get one-way observed that way.
But as I mentioned before, I still argue RAW that Battle Cry is an action that is not Hide, Sneak, or Step so it breaks Hide or Avoid Notice that is the exploration activity equivalent of Hide/Sneak.