Can i use mischeivous tail for a fox shaped kitsune to hold an a magic item?

[Frillfill]

So, sice my dm allowed me to gain the chalice of enchantment as a magic item for my kitsune build(the one in the advice forums), i was thinking on how to use its effects while in fox shape.

So the feat mischeivous tail lets the character use your tail for all purposes as though it were a free hand, though they cannot effectively wield weapons or shields with it. The chaice of enchantment is not a weapon and to benefit from it you only need to hold it, sort of like a metamgic rod. To be fair, the item description does say while holding it in hand you gain its benefits, but since your tail can function as a free hand for all intents and purposes, i would say you could benefit from it while its held in your tail while you have the feat.

Of course you would need to put it in a polymorphic bag first and then use your tail to retrieve it which grasping tail should be able to do. So thoughts?

[Mysterious Stranger]

The feat is pretty clear that it allows you to hold things in your tail. All the chalice requires is to be held, so that should not be a problem.

[Azothath]

Kitsune race there's actually no explicit mention of a tail other than down in the favored class bonus for gaining 1/6th tail. It is an assumption that the anthropomorphic fox form has a tail with no mechanical benefit (which is why it's handwaived).

Mischievous Tail feat{spelling} Req: Grasping Tail feat(which is where holding things comes in). Mischievous improves grasping to a hand's ability (but still no wielding weapons or shields). I assume you have Grasping Tail.

In Kitsune form your main tail can hold the custom Home Game artifact so long as it is of reasonable size & weight. In human form it will have to be in a hand (no tail).

comment: a polymorphic pouch [none] $5000 is optional as a chalice is held or possessed(worn/stowed) rather than a Magic Item Body Slot and is usable in both forms. It should be easy enough to cast arcane pocket:C1 on worn clothing common to both forms.

[Melkiador]

The official images of kitsune all have tails.

But also the magical feat tail eludes to it. “You grow an extra tail that represents your growing magical powers.”

And the race is described as an anthropomorphic fox and foxes have tails.

[Azothath]

like my old math professors were fond of saying, "pictures prove nothing".
Anthropomorphic is nebulous and I wouldn't pin any hopes on that. Werewolves don't have tails in many stories...

LoL- I understand but it is simply a matter of a complete description and in this case Paizo didn't mention it. I'll add that the feat requires a tail... so it's a good thing most GMs (who even notice) understand the issue.
I would advise against taking away a thematic implied racial trait with no immediate mechanical benefit that is part of common play history without good cause.

For me it just means playing a tailless kitsune is possible and supported by RAW.

[Frillfill]

Azothath wrote:

like my old math professors were fond of saying, "pictures prove nothing".

LoL- I understand but it is simply a matter of a complete description and in this case Paizo didn't mention it. I'll add that the feat requires a tail... so it's a good thing most GMs (who even notice) understand the issue.
For me it just means playing a tailless kitsune is possible and supported by RAW.

In my case i specifically have a tail because of fox shape and because of nine tailed heir so i have multiple tails. Also all kitsune starts of with a tail, its why you can only take magical tail 8 times, you already have one and with the additional 8 you become a nine tailed kitsune

[Azothath]

Frillfill wrote:

...

In my case i specifically have a tail because of fox shape and because of nine tailed heir so i have multiple tails. Also all kitsune starts of with a tail, its why you can only take magical tail 8 times, you already have one and with the additional 8 you become a nine tailed kitsune

yes, I get it. Not the first to go that route. comment - I was just pointing out a pedantic deficiency in RAW

The first tail can hold/manipulate stuff (two feats to do that).
The other tails?... I'd say no as that would require more Grasping Tail feats and the Game is sensibly stingy with extra appendages that can do stuff and extremely stingy on using weapons/shields.

[Frillfill]

Azothath wrote:

Frillfill wrote:

...

In my case i specifically have a tail because of fox shape and because of nine tailed heir so i have multiple tails. Also all kitsune starts of with a tail, its why you can only take magical tail 8 times, you already have one and with the additional 8 you become a nine tailed kitsune

yes, I get it. Not the first to go that route. comment - I was just pointing out a pedantic deficiency in RAW

The first tail can hold/manipulate stuff (two feats to do that).
The other tails?... I'd say no as that would require more Grasping Tail feats and the Game is sensibly stingy with extra appendages that can do stuff and extremely stingy on using weapons/shields.

Yeah only my first tail needs to hold one item which is the artifact