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If earthbind is cast on a creature flying over water, does the falling stop when it hits the water (assuming it is within 120')? Or does it continue to sink towards the "earth" / "ground"?
Same if netting is rigged above the ground? Effectively grappling the earthbind target as it sinks through layers of nets?
Earthbind over Grease to force a Reflex Save / Acrobatic check or fall prone, making getting away even more difficult?
The falling is normal falling (albeit w/o damage), so falling would stop when the target hits the water. Since they're landing safely, I wouldn't even rule they plunge deeper from momentum. The fall isn't Forced Movement (et al), so if the target has ways to stop a fall, they could employ them, like Grab a Ledge.
Does the water count as ground re: leaving the ground?
Typically I'd have to wrestle with this, except the spell has the Earth trait, so I link that effect to the earth actually doing the binding in Earthbind. Kind of like saying, "I'm going to make you fall then the earth's going to bind you" except since they don't touch any earth, the latter doesn't occur. Note that "ground" is the spell's terminology, so most any solid surface should suffice. Similarly if the water was shallow enough that the target contacts the ground, I'd allow that.
Re: nets, again the spell causes normal falling, so the first net (if secured) would catch the target. If unsecured, any nets would likely detach and fall faster than the target who's falling slow enough to be unhurt. Note that a more complex arrangement could work IMO, but that's adjudication territory more than rules (and quite difficult to set up IMO). And the net wouldn't be "ground" so the target wouldn't be stuck on a Fail/Cr. Fail.
Re: Grease, technically Grease triggers in two ways: by standing in the area when it's cast and by trying to move (other than Step or Crawl). So RAW I don't think there'd be a save/check, BUT I'd likely force one because the target would have to find their footing, right? One could also say the target IS moving into greasy square even though they aren't "using an action" as the spell says. (Hmm, this would also mean by RAW that pushing somebody into Grease does nothing, which seems too weak for a cinematic game.)
Now this is my kind of question! I like the way you think, erucsbo.
Sounds like it would be a cool way to drown someone, or at least give them a good dunking.
I would also rule Earthbind as meaning that you fall through the air. Any non-air would be considered 'ground' for the meaning of the spell.
Landing in nets or Grease would mean suffering the effects of standing on those terrain effects.
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I'd leave physics out of it. This is a game.
*insert 'Sir, this is a Wendy's' meme here.*
If earthbind is cast on a creature flying over water, does the falling stop when it hits the water (assuming it is within 120')? Or does it continue to sink towards the "earth" / "ground"?
Same if netting is rigged above the ground? Effectively grappling the earthbind target as it sinks through layers of nets?
Earthbind over Grease to force a Reflex Save / Acrobatic check or fall prone, making getting away even more difficult?
The answer depends a bit on what your table values more.
I would want my players to try to set up cool interactions like this so I would reward it.Some tables might want to preserve game balance and read the spell description in a restrictive way.
I really appreciate the discussion and that I'm not missing anything in the rules already.
I do like finding inventive ways to use spells and cool interactions. I find they are more likely to create the memories that get recalled and reminisced over years later.
When discussing gaseous atmosphere, what about the interaction with solid fog? What about dropping the target into the middle of heightened (4th) earthworks?
Some tables might want to preserve game balance and read the spell description in a restrictive way.Just to clarify: not making this a drowning spell is 'restrictive'. Is this correct?
Yeah. for example, if the enemies is hovering 5 ft above deep water and this spell doesn't treat the water as ground they then get plunged 120 ft and have 115 ft to swim back up just to breath and on top of that you've created the need to adjudicate if the creature had enough time to hold their breath.
If part of the fall included going through a net and thats not ground and you allow it to grapple the creature as they fall now that creature might be immobile and 115ft under water.Thats a lot of consequence for a rank 3 spell.
But its also a lot of set up, its not the spell on its own thats creating all of the consequence.
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Earthbind makes you fall 120' on a Success. If one considers "sinking into the depths" as similar enough to count, then most every NPC living near water that can choose this spell would. That's a lot of "drown even if you succeed" going on that I doubt the players would want to buy into.
That fails the "do you want enemies returning the favor?" test of balance, especially as flying over watery terrain obstacles because more normal for PCs.
It occurred to me that you can cast earthbind on yourself in order to fly.
Hear me out.
If you're greater than 120 feet in the air when targeted by the spell (let's assume an altitude of 121 feet for my example) then--per the spell--you only fall 120 feet. That means you then stop falling. Having so mastered the art of throwing yourself at the ground and missing, gravity no longer has any power over you, thus enabling you to fly. In any case, I have it on good authority that you should pack a towel before attempting, just in case you miss the ground in unexpected ways (or someone needs to clean up your remains).
The only sticking point I've encountered so far is that the spell can only be cast on a target that already happens to be flying. XD
The only sticking point I've encountered so far is that the spell can only be cast on a target that already happens to be flying. XD
Leaving aside that you aren't really "throwing yourself at the ground" (and yes I get and love the reference) it does give another tick to using air walk over fly as air walk doesn't qualify as flying.
Earthbind does give a quicker way of getting to the ground safely than Gentle Landing (Feather Fall) if you have a slow fly speed and are within 120'.
It's also unclear whether Unfettered Movement (Freedom of Movement) would neutralize Earthbind, as it calls out specific conditions. I'd probably rule that it does neutralize it in the spirit of the game and being a higher level spell if I was making the call.
Earthbind uses the "weight of the earth" against a flying creature, so if it was up to me I'd probably have it pull a creature 5' underwater, but then stop as the creature is no longer flying but swimming/sinking instead. Could still be damaging if it was a pool of acid. If it was lava then I'd have them on the surface of the lava as it is technically "earth" (just very very hot and molten earth).
Ok. For the record, this is completely absurd. No, that's not a drowning spell and never intended to be. And after hovering 5 ft above it's definitely 5 ft drop and that's all (resolving water is another thing). And no, that's not even remotely restrictive. But, as Castilliano said it's either extremely permissive or terribly mean depending on which side PCs are.Yeah. for example, if the enemies is hovering 5 ft above deep water and this spell doesn't treat the water as ground they then get plunged 120 ft and have 115 ft to swim back up just to breath and on top of that you've created the need to adjudicate if the creature had enough time to hold their breath.Some tables might want to preserve game balance and read the spell description in a restrictive way.Just to clarify: not making this a drowning spell is 'restrictive'. Is this correct?
i don't disagree with you. its way too much for the spell to do.
But I dont think its absurd to think in terms of interactions that are not written. Clearly water is a different word than ground. You can value balance and have the spell treat it as ground. Nothing wrong with it. You could also have some interaction that is different than that outcome and that is also ok.Personally if i had described the scene and there are fishing nets out on the water and I had a creature flying and stopped over those nets, I would absolutely rewards my players for using earthbind at that moment to dunk the flier. It won't be 115 deep but i wouldn't stop it at contact either. 10-15ft deep is a suitable reward and it could take an action to untangle from the net even if i dont apply grapple with it for the clever use of the spell. That doesnt make the spell auto drown but it does eat up actions.