This will be an open table style of game. Old school-ish style of play but with modified 3.5 mechanics. I’ll accept plenty of players as there is no need to all be in the same party.
Note: I will primarily be able to post Thursday through Sunday.
The players will all be aspiring delvers, those who make a living from go into living dungeons to collect resources and materials. Delvers are also seen as a sort of militia and so are often hired for other jobs as well.
The game will be mainly a sandbox but not only will there be various dungeons for you to explore, but missions will come up occasionally to handle as well that aren’t in a dungeon, and frankly, you don’t actually have to go for dungeons if you don’t want to.
That said, this setting is a pretty gritty place. You won’t need a whole stack of characters, but survival will absolutely be a concern. Additionally, this is a combat-as-war game, so do NOT expect encounters to all be balanced for your level, or even balanced at all. Use wit and creativity to unbalance things in your favor.
I altered advancement rules so you can gain 90 levels or so while remaining at the gritty first tier of play, though you’ll have lots more feats to work with, but fewer class levels.
Magic is no longer balanced by being limited in uses per day. Though yea slots are limited, but once out of slots you can cast magic with fatigue cost. Magic is powerful, but you need to invest a LOT of character build resources which necessitate specialization, and you only get free choice of spells at character generation. After that you’ll need to find or buy or create new spells, though it is a magic rich world, so finding spells won’t be too hard.
This setting does not have soldiers that don’t know magic. And spellcasters that intend to go delving into dungeons or dangerous situations train with weapons and armor.
I have created a player guide detailing the rules I’ll be using. Feel free to ask questions and point out anything you think is missing from it. There are a lot of minor changes that players may want clarification on, such as how I blanket changed spell durations, but I didn’t rewrite every spell. That’s way too much work to do before evn starting to play, instead I’ll get to them and add them to the guide as players ask for them or I put them in the game for loot or purchase.
Players guide to Azorian Adventures!
There is no need to have built a character to join, in fact I expect to work with everyone answering questions and building a character and their background to tie them into the world and handle any questions.
Worth a shot!
What does one roll for attributes? I did read the guide, but if the spread sucks (in my estimation), I may withdraw.
I don't mind all the homebrew and actually appreciate all the thought that went into it. Though in my estimation nothing makes up for perceived low attribute stats.
Maybe you bookend it with a minimum and maximum point-buy equivalent (ex: 18-23) to be eligible.
Reading the guide, if we're cleaving to the math/averages... you seem to be OK with a 3 point-buy.
That particular bit isn't for me.
Well, I plan on getting some feedback about a couple options for stats.
I hate pure point buy, but I recognize that it often feels more fair (which I care about) and more balanced (which I don’t care about ), both of which are important to most players.
I like rolling for two big reasons, first, it gives more natural stat spreads instead of the inhuman ridiculousness that comes from minmaxing stats. And second, it gives something that players then need to put some creativity into figuring out how to work with.
Thus I came up with two methods that bring all of these concerns together.
Option 1, Point Rolling. In this option, instead of rolling for stat values directly, you get a D6 for each point of whatever point buy you are going for, then roll for which stat each point gets put into. So if you were going with 10 point buy, then you’d roll 10D6, and all the ones would be strength, all the twos dexterity, etc. A variant of this is too keep a few points in reserve to place as the player desires.
Option 2, Rolling Minimum. In this option, you use the 3d6 each stat rolling method, then if the result is less than the desired point buy, you treat the roll as the base and get the missing points to distribute as desired to perhaps represent what the character has done in early life. This method can give you some interesting material to work with yet adds some customization, and if you get really lucky and get a stat spread of higher than the point buy minimum, you can forego any customization to keep the lucky roll. Or if that seems unfair, reroll anything above the point buy.
For either of these options, the 3.5 way of counting points works better.
Now, another interesting possibility depends on why you dislike a 3 point buy spread as you mention. If the reason is like me, in that you dislike penalties greatly, then this third option can work, but it requires a few additional alterations otherwise the math gets thrown off by around 4 points.
In this concept, the ability score modifiers are calculated differently such that there are no penalties. So a score of 1-4 is a modifier of 0, and a score of 5-8 is a modifier of +1, etc. Then even a very low point buy has all bonuses.
The math gets thrown off however, and many things which are balanced around a normal person having a modifier of zero gets a power boost.
However, the most noticeable math related to world results such as skills can be brought back into line by rolling a D12 plus two dice based on ability scores for the standard roll.
Obviously this is a big departure from standard rolling but it can work. Indeed this is what I do in my more completely original system.
So from a mechanics perspective you're kind stripping away the players ability to choose.
I remember rolling 3d6, straight down the line... miserable.
I gotta tell ya, the system is sounding less and less palatable (again, to me - can't speak for others).
My thoughts are, if I'm going to play a homebrew (s)low power deadly system (less and less and less player control)... at least let me create the character I want.
Everything seems engineered keep the player oppressed and off balance. It's as if the main thrust is to see how much they can take before they crack.
Granted story trumps dice, that's awesome! But although the power is the player's to RP... the DM is the arbiter (therefore the power is really theirs and not the players).
The characters may not be powerless, but the players are or at least can easily feel that way.
So from a mechanics perspective you're kind stripping away the players ability to choose.
I remember rolling 3d6, straight down the line... miserable.
I gotta tell ya, the system is sounding less and less palatable (again, to me - can't speak for others).
My thoughts are, if I'm going to play a homebrew (s)low power deadly system (less and less and less player control)... at least let me create the character I want.
Everything seems engineered keep the player oppressed and off balance. It's as if the main thrust is to see how much they can take before they crack.
Granted story trumps dice, that's awesome! But although the power is the player's to RP... the DM is the arbiter (therefore the power is really theirs and not the players).
The characters may not be powerless, but the players are or at least can easily feel that way.
I am leaving this issue to discussion for a reason. Because issues like this arise.
Firstly, you are the first I’ve encountered to argue for point buy because of choice of character. Usually the players arguing for point buy are very gamist in their play, which is something I’m seeking to avoid. For such players, there is generally a disconnect between their stats and their character. They will do nonsensical things like have a little waif of a girl with 18 strength, when an 18 strength is claiming to be a character built like lighthouse and just as heavy. A character with 18 strength is supposed to resemble Halfthor from game of thrones or Andre the giant from princess bride, because that is what it means to have 18 strength. But such players usually discount that and separate the implications of their stats from their characters.
Most players who argue for rolling stats are much better about fitting narrative and stats together. IE I want a bookworm but rolled high strength, why does my bookworm have high strength? Maybe they were bullied because they were big and therefore called troll or orc as a kid and thus retreated to their books as a kid. See how this takes an existing character concept and puts the player into adding detail, but does not alter the fundamental character concept?
Certainly not universal, but the mindset of fitting narrative and stats together is preferable to me.
It has nothing to do with controlling players, in fact, this is a sandbox, player agency is a high priority.
But it does fascinate me that you would see this as taking away player choice and control, when you play a class based game. That is exactly what classes do, they take away choice and control, yet I meet a great deal of resistance in trying to make a classless version of d20 because for many, classes help them make characters because not having classes is too much choice and control for them to know what to do with, suffering from analysis paralysis.
So it is most interesting to see.
I suspect however, that your current mindset with how to play an rpg is at odds with what I’m looking to do here. No I don’t want to take away your control, nor to oppress you.
Something to remember is that paizo is all about high powered fantasy. They focus on characters who not only expect some amount of plot armor, but are also superhuman in capabilities. They focus on this not just in narrative but also in mechanics. That is not the game I’m going for. It has the impact of making superhuman characters seem normal and therefore normal characters to seem weak and oppressed by comparison, but they aren’t weak nor oppressed to be normal.
Big important point, the mechanics are not the game. The mechanics are simply a tool, a play aid. They help communicate things, like a strength 16 says you are built like the terminator because that is what 16 strength means, but also helps maintain consistency and verisimilitude. This is part of what it means to have narrative trump mechanics. The mechanics are like a baseline, not a border. Judgment calls and rulings are based on, not limited by, the mechanics.
I admit, the style of play I prefer requires being gable to trust the GM because the mechanics are not there to keep the GM in check, but with a good GM, it opens up a very different field of experience from modern play, one in which the mechanics play a minor role in what happens.
I'm not sure why point buy amount or rolling is directly associated with one's ability to craft story or RP. That may weed out those that can't. But, it indirectly restricts those that can.
I would want to play... me.
05 pts: 09/10/11/11/12/12
10 pts: 09/10/12/12/12/14
15 pts: 10/10/12/13/13/15
20 pts: 10/11/13/13/13/16
25 pts: 10/12/13/14/14/16
The above are versions of a renaissance man ("me") depending on point buy.
At early levels, I'd focus on survivability (combat & stealth) and perhaps pick up some minor magicks along the way as the character advances.
Trust in the DM is required but, so is trust in the player. You can kill me off at any time, quite easily in a more lethal world.
Perhaps I misunderstand it, but I sincerely worry about the skill/skill points system in the guide. It seems rather anemic. Perhaps that's because I'm a "jack of all trades" type.
Master of non, perhaps. But, it's within the synergy and fluidity of skills and abilities where I craft uniqueness of character, strategy and even story. That's fun!
PF 1-20 levels and Class based is limiting, but in multi classing, variant multi-classing to a lesser degree and Gestalt (simply to blend), woohoo! Folks balk at gestalt, but just make the challenges tougher.
It's like painting, limiting colors may be a nice exercise... but being limited perpetually, sucks. I fear the character will be limited to a handful of skills, forced to put points into fewer and fewer as time goes on (because of the linear cost progression).
Perhaps my fears are unfounded.
Trying to convey what attracts me to and deters me from playing any given game. Can't speak for others.
I'm not knocking the game system. Actually would love to collaborate and refine it even more - not being pushy, just offering.
No worries, I’m glad I haven’t scared you off because someone like you is excellent for the kind of good feedback I need.
As for skills, one thing I don’t do is perpetually increase DCs to keep up with PC level. If I did, you’d be right about the skills falling behind, but I maintain that most of the time, things are low level, thus as you improve, you get to see how those earlier difficulties become easier over time, a very important aspect of making player feel growth in power as the game continues.
As for gestalt, I love gestalt myself as well.
In any case, I’m going to give at least a week and a half for any other interest to show up and chip in on the starting ability scores issue before we play. Otherwise though, I’m happy to help build your character in the other aspects till then. Might be good for others who peek in to see that as well. It might attract more people.
Character is pretty much as briefly described, what do we need to do?
Character is pretty much as briefly described, what do we need to do?
Lots. Starting level is 6, when you get your first class level and is basically when become a journeyman of some craft or at least thereabouts in age (earlier levels are basically your childhood levels, cause I’ve played kids before and need to build npc children at times), so that’s a few feats, your first class level, the base number of skillpoints at least, and all the background of why you have those selected skills, the background of your family and where your character is from, why are they becoming delvers, is it temporary or their dream job, etc. I’m presuming human, which have you read the lore snippet on humans? Very important for this world, what kind of heritage do you have? Were you born to a small village, or a big town?
That kind of stuff.
To start with, the underdark area is somewhat asian in theme, while the surface is european, though the Ardent Empire spans both and is very cosmopolitan with fair influence of both european and asian elements and is the central area of where I’ll be inserting players. What kind of questions do you have about the world in building your character’s background?
... Why don't you just make an entirely new system rather than trying to tack on something this mind-numbingly complicated onto 3.5?
First, while there are a lot of changes in this iteration, tje result is no more complex than standard d20.
Second, I am making a new system. Two of them. One of them is built ground up. The other is combining the best parts of what I like from my system and putting them in d20, which would likely be more successful as you can use d20 resources for it easily.
Third, testing various concepts and ideas in d20 is a lot better because it is less work, not only in that I don’t have to create a bunch of classes and spells just to test something, but also less work required to explain the system to players, because nearly all of them will know d20 allowing me to simply explain the stuff I’m testing out rather than needing to introduce an entirely new system just to test out a few ideas.
Character is pretty much as briefly described, what do we need to do?
Did I scare you away?
I’m not expecting complete finished answers. It is a new setting after all, but once I know a rough idea of what you think, I can then add suggested details and expand lore around the choices you make.
I'm still leary of the low start block. Just makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand. Danger!
But just a busy week and waiting for others.
I'm getting a (possibly distinct) Maze Runner vibe... which I think is very cool.
Not scared away, Humans are product of Dwarves & Elves... doesn't thrill me. A creation/amalgam... I can reconcile, how he envisions the lore.
Could be human or half-orc (mostly human 3/4?, but darkvision).
Vaguely, his "group" (tribe, village, family, clan) different some unexplained event... People died, close people too, perhaps civilian/innocent/children. The event seemed random but perhaps some clues were left.
He and others figure best to explore, understand why... if it is likely to happen again, how to stop it or defend against it.
Perhaps a trope.
36 skill points?
Athletics
Acrobatics
Perception
Investigation
Speech
Bows
Light Blades (short sword, dagger, sickle, etc...)
Dodge
Handle Animal
Ride
Stealth
Survival
Maybe he's young, a ranger type, an outrider... a sentinel of sorts.
Perhaps he feels it's his inexperience that allowed the approach or attack. Maybe he simply fell asleep and around too later. He feels responsible.
What do you mean by “low start block?”
What do you mean by “low start block?”
Typo... low stat block (attributes). That whole previous discussion regarding ability scores.
10-11 is average, one or two ability scores above that and you're heroic, etc...
Another typo: "...fell asleep and came around (woke up) too late..."
Ah, I see.
That is something I’m curious about though. Why do you dislike low stats? Is it because penalties feel worse than bonuses feel good, or is there some other reason? (I’m not referring to generating stats, I’m just referring to having low stats regardless of how they are generated)
Orcs, the height of goblin kind, are from the surface, so being a half orc means you almost certainly come from the surface, a temperate or cold climate, which on this world also means very mountainous and rough terrain.
Going for the edgy rogue-worthy backstory I see. I can see a couple ideas for a village’s destruction. Not really sure about tropes, not exactly my normal way of thinking, but I’ll look around.
RP(G)s for me are somewhat of a manifesting... it's not reality, I'm not delusional. But, I'm manifesting by best evolved self into... a particular avatar.
I prefer that avatar to be exceptional such that what I imagine doing and will... is done.
If they are average and foibled, that's a challenge to RP (and I could)... But, it's not the pleasant escape I desire.
I wish to shed that shackles of my reality and be fantastic... it's fantasy.
Something along those lines.
RP, I've got in spades. Coming up with background stories, laying in events to accommodate how, why or when... that's easy (for me).
I want the heroes to carry the day in some manner. Because of who and what they are, not in spite of it.
Don't get me wrong, we can still be underdogs compared to the obstacles we face, the villains can be more powerful. That's OK.
I want the heroes to carry the day in some manner. Because of who and what they are, not in spite of it.
Fascinating. I tend to think of heroes as carrying the day in spite of what they are because of who they are. Multiple aspects that both aid and hold them back. It is boring to me if they just win without any kind of needing to overcome. Courage is not the lack of fear, it is being the sort of person who acts despite fear.
I think playing with you will be some of my most interesting play ever.
Personally, I find it easier to rp a character by being that character in mind, and the most fun I ever had was playing a pregen pyromancer hot headed sorceress, with a very teasing rogue that almost got fried to crisp a few times, and I think I had so much fun playing her because she was so opposite of myself.
I enjoy that, too... the challenge of crafting a character that fits into an existing group. The mechanics and personality that may fit.
Character Acting.
I'm not looking to breeze through any challenges. The challenge can be bigger, harder.
It's like I'm saying... apply the Advanced Template to my character and make the encounters +2 CR. Something like that.
Examples: The Silver Surfer vs Galactus. Terminator T-800 vs Liquid Terminator T-1000, unawakened Neo vs Matrix Agents.
You can be powerful and yet still be the underdog.
If they are average and foibled, that's a challenge to RP (and I could)... But, it's not the pleasant escape I desire.
Well, I’m not necessarily looking for average people stats, just to pull back from the need for ever increasing numbers.
I notice that players tend to over time want bigger and bigger numbers to feel powerful because they get used to numbers they have and over time it starts feeling normal instead of powerfu, thus requiring higher numbers so they can feel powerful again.
I think the major reason for this is because they have no connection between the numbers and the world. They don’t feel like normal people have 8-12 stats, and therefore that fact is not an anchor to their expectations. Thus their 14 stops feeling powerful after awhile. The running of combat as sport where encounters are always of “appropriate” level further drives this disconnect.
Thus, if players have 12-16 for their stats, I want them to not only recognize that their stats are actually very powerful, I want them to feel it. But they also need to recognize the stats as being powerful, instead of leaving them to randomly attribute their powerful feeling to something else.
Suggested reading, not mandatory but it might give you insight into how I am looking at the mechanics, is to read the Alexandrian’s Calibrating Your Expectations.
Edit: d20 vs 3d6 also plays a roll here. A +1 difference is basically unnoticeable on a d20 roll, nor even a +2, and +3 is only starting to be noticeable, but on a 3d6 roll +1 is small but noticeable.
If they are average and foibled, that's a challenge to RP (and I could)... But, it's not the pleasant escape I desire.
Well, I’m not necessarily looking for average people stats, just to pull back from the need for ever increasing numbers.
I notice that players tend to over time want bigger and bigger numbers to feel powerful because they get used to numbers they have and over time it starts feeling normal instead of powerful, thus requiring higher numbers so they can feel powerful again.
I don't think that's it. I'll posit that it's the "randomness" they dislike. It prevents them from co-creating/shaping their own destiny and story.
They are forced to tip-toe around the rolls "if" they are lucky enough and successful. We are forced to write to the roll, not the role.
It's the flip side of role play don't roll play. It's insidious.
The higher the attributes, weapons bonuses, items bonuses, compared to the d20 roll, the less random the result can be. The more control one has over their story.
The more likely their desired action will be their action.
The whole point of rolls is the randomness, the risks that may or may not pan out. If you get to succeed just because you want to put enough points there, it’s not much different than having your wins handed to you on a silver platter.
Paradoxically, it’s dealing with the undesirable things that gives results their value. A participation award is worthless, even insulting to many, but winning the gold by going through hell and getting lucky feels epic.
So of course everyone wants high bonuses that let them win with minimal risk, but the end result is far less satisfying. Being forced to deal with randomness can indeed be an actual good thing.
That said, consistency is one reason to use 3d6, it makes results able to hit a wide spread but being more likely to hit middle values makes smaller bonuses feel impactful.
Besides, there are systems out there with no rolling at all for attacks and such, and those would be far more suitable for people who want to avoid randomness.
In the end though, it’s the struggle to achieve that matters, and for some players that struggle starts at the meta game with trying to get mechanics in their favor, while others focus on the in character struggles and using in game elements to overcome.
My designs are absolutely for the latter, never for the former.
I should say that the design intent is for in game struggle to overcome, and not designed for making PC’s mechanically superior. Doesn’t mean you can’t do that though.
You mention being forced to tip toe around the dice rolls, but really, why have the dice rolls if not the chance for failure? If you always succeed, then why bother? Why not just autosucceed at everything in your job as a party member?
Perhaps there is a subtlety I’m missing, but arranging the mechanics so you can never fail except maybe on a nat 1 seems to me to be missing the whole point of dice. It also seems to be wholly focused on playing mechanics. If we dropped the mechanics, where would this line of thinking go?
The problem is not in arranging things to avoid failure, but rather in looking at the meta game structure to avoid failure. What I desire in an rpg is to look exclusively in game for ways to arrange more certainty in victory. Planning, preparation, strategy, use the environment, use consumables, use items, use trickery and deception and manipulation of other characters, etc. The mechanics are just to communicate how the world works, allow a shorthand for describing necessary details for decision making that are less fitting for narrative prose, shift risk resolution away from the GM fiat yet still account for character capabilities and task difficulty, and make it easier to make rulings that are sensible, plausible, and consistent.
You call it insidious, but I think what’s insidious here is this:
The more likely their desired action will be their action.
This quote implies that dice dictate your action, but the truth of the matter is that the dice dictate the success of an action. If you jump a gap, then nothing about the dice will change that you jumped. The disconnect at this point is the successfulness of the jump, if you jump, there is a chance of failing to reach the other side. The player chooses to take that risk, using their skill stat to estimate how big of a risk it is and the dice simply decide whether the risk pans out or falls through. Thus, if someone is looking at this and thinking the dice changed their action, it’s only because they were not choosing an action but rather choosing a result that wasn’t theirs to choose (that’s what makes it a risk). Choosing an action vs choosing a result, that is the difference.
If the players get to choose the outcomes of their actions, it is less if a roleplaying game and more of a storywriting game, as players are not taking risks as their characters takes, but instead writing scenes. If the GM chooses the outcome of actions, it’s no different for the player than letting the dice roll except they can feel like the GM is being unfair far more easily and the GM is basically just writing a novel with occasional input about the characters.
Not that there is anything wrong with storywriting games, but those are not what I want to run, not what my mechanics are designed for.
I would say sometimes. Sometimes it's good to work towards overcoming circumstances.
Other times, it's good to know "you were made for this" particular task.
I'm not advocating elimination of all risk.
Vaguely, d20 type systems seem to be based on the notion of 50/50 chances.
Defender's AC is 10, Dex is 10, not wearing armor, no shield. Maybe AC 11, pick up a small shield?
Attacker is Dex/Str 10, assuming proficiency, mostly likely +0 to hit unless you are a fighter of some sort, then +1.
~50% chance of success.
As you level, you add +1 or +2 to your roll. Attack, Saving throw DC, skill check, etc...
As you encounter more difficult encounters, the AC increases by about +1 to +2 (or the danger in some way). Saving throw, contested skill check, etc...
Situational modifiers often are give and take, effectively zero sum.
Combat expertise, power attack, deadly aim, charging, being prone (in cases), armor, exotic weapons or crit threat range/multiplier...
...combat maneuvers & AoOs, then a while slew of feats to address that (feat tax).
So, effectively your always at this 50% zone, give or take.
That's incredibly infuriating to me as a player. My character is effectively never getting any better.
Chances of success are never changing. That doesn't bother you? Really... a coin flip?
Oh I see what you are talking about now, and that’s a major problem with modern gaming styles. But it is not a mechanical issue at all, the problem is a combination of factors including incorrect expectations but the biggest cause of that issue is the idea that encounters are supposed to be level appropriate.
First, the notable points of 50% success chance is nothing more than a landmark that the GM can use as an aid in estimating encounters that they build, and for the designers in formulating the math to keep it consistent. A great mistake it is to think that you should face only encounters that are on that baseline and requiring you to have high stats just to have a better than 50% success chance. This misunderstanding is a one of GMs most common and greatest mistakes. That said, it became quite pervasive in the early days of 3.x. Early 3e modules followed the chart in the DMG in which encounter difficulty should be wide spread, even up to five levels above the party for bosses. But the community complained about how “unbalanced” it was to do that, so wotc, and in later days Paizo, gave way to the community’s lack of understanding on the point and went with what sells, modules with “balanced” encounters.
Second, the math in 3.x works way better for 3d6 than d20, especially for small bonuses like a +1. On 3d6, a +1 is something like 62% success chance, much better than 55%.
Third, chances of success depends in large part on what enemies the GM has you face and how they are built. Even if facing an equal CR encounter, if it is composed of multiple lower CR opponents, your chances for hitting and defending go up, letting you hit most of the time without reducing the overall difficulty. Facing fewer more powerful foes is easier to run for the GM but harder on the players in regards to them feeling capable.
Fourth, is the combat as war mentality, do the players want to rush in like absolute morons and still win? That’s a lot harder to make work while having any feeling of balance. Combat as war however, sees players relying on a lot more than just their abilities. Preparation, use of environment, creative use of all those “useless” items in the equipment section. It can massively increase chances of success. Admittedly it is a very different kind of play, but it’s the sort I try to encourage.
I have what I call the Encounter Pyramid (like the food pyramid).
It has five levels ranging from easy and common to hard and rare.
Level one: the foundational encounters. These are easy and numerous. They are foundational because the party gets to see how enemies that used to be difficult have become easier, but also represents the “normal” people in the world, and thus working like a measuring stick.
Level two: easy if the right knowledge and preparation is done, but harder if unknown are improperly.
Level three: these are the middling challanges, aiming for what the book considers equal CR, so a baseline of 50 % on any rolls that are “normal” level. In theory should take about 20% of party resources, in theory.
Level four: more challenging monsters, generally sub bosses or the like. These encounters generally need preparation and care to handle and often will be quite challenging and consume about 60% of resources.
Level five: bosses that are very tough set piece battles. Bring everything you have to these battles and don’t rush in blindly. Definitely have retreat contingencies ready.
I'm still in... just let me know how to start building the character.
Well, first thing, do you want to be from a colder mountainous region (fitting for a more orcish or goblinish heritage), or from a more temperate and flatter region (more fitting for pure human or elvish/dwarven heritage)?
The world is a torus, so land closer to the poler regions is more mountainous and slightly heavier gravity, and as the home region of orcs is why orcs are stronger.
Closer to the equator is flatter ground but also full of lakes, fissures, and canyons. But this is also where the underworld races reach the surface.
Once you have decided on that, you can pick your race. For human, I’ll allow using paizo’s race builder to add uniqueness to human characters to represent any unusual heritage they might have. Any of the half races such as half orcs, tieflings, etc, are all half human with those races being the strangeness that comes from their nonhuman parentage. Keep the point cost in line with other basic races but I’m not going to set an absolute limit, keep it awesome and fitting.
Halflings and gnomes are basically humans but smaller as all the races have gained some variety over time, though gnomes have greater strange heritage.
Due to real life events, I’ll have to delay starting, but since no one else has shown interest, you can run with a 10 point buy build for your ability scores.
If you have questions ask.
Build summery,
10 point buy
Level 6, which includes your first class level
Starting gold as per class,
If you want something from a supplement, send me a link and I’ll look it over.As much as this game is intended to be fun for you, I am looking for how well the rules run so do please avoid getting too crazy with supplements.
Since you seem to be the only player so far, I can drop you into headed for module like scenerios or running dungeon crawls or a good mix of the two, just let me know if you have a preference.
Bah, I’m thinking pathfinder point buy, sorry. I always forget that changed.
Bah, I’m thinking pathfinder point buy, sorry. I always forget that changed.
What are the point buy rules?
I’m too busy to look anything up for a few days, so go with whatever point buy equals the elite array in 3.5 rules.
Standard point-buy values are 25 (Elite) and 32.
Each stat begins at 8.
A stat of 9 costs 1 point.
A stat of 10 costs 2 points.
A stat of 11 costs 3 points.
A stat of 12 costs 4 points.
A stat of 13 costs 5 points.
A stat of 14 costs 6 points.
A stat of 15 costs 8 points.
A stat of 16 costs 10 points.
A stat of 17 costs 13 points.
A stat of 18 costs 16 points.
================================
Desired arrays:
PF Point Buy
05 pts: 09/10/11/11/12/12 (in 3.5, costs 17)
10 pts: 09/10/12/12/12/14 (in 3.5, costs 21)
15 pts: 10/10/12/13/13/15 (in 3.5, costs 26)
20 pts: 10/11/13/13/13/16 (in 3.5, costs 30)
25 pts: 10/12/13/14/14/16 (in 3.5, costs 33)
The array: 10/10/12/13/13/15 is perfectly fine.
Sorry, but I basically got 2 day notice to move everything I and my family own to another state.
So, I’ve been running like mad.
In theory however, once everything settles down, I’ll actually have a better schedule for running a game.
No rush from my end, I was doing some of the point buy research you mentioned not having time for.
For about a week, I'm in a time zone that's not my own so, weird posting times for me.
After I calculated the point buy for my arrays, basically fell back asleep... Zzz.
We can pick up whenever you are ready.
Good ahead and build your character, and I’ll review it. If you names for locals and such, be creative, there is plenty of open room where I will put you.
Well, things are getting themselves sorted out. Do you have your character ready yet, or am I being stupid and forgetting something?
Well, things are getting themselves sorted out. Do you have your character ready yet, or am I being stupid and forgetting something?
No, it's me. Just need a couple of more days, I think.
That’s fine.
I’ve got a default starting direction I can drop you in, but if you have a preference for story modules or dungeon delving, let me know, and I can bring more options of that style nearby.
I’ve got a default starting direction I can drop you in, but if you have a preference for story modules or dungeon delving, etc...
DM's choice! Just not something that kills them right away.
This is what's I've got so far:
Not from the poles, half way to the equator.
Perfectly human with Low-Light Vision and Darkvision. It makes him the perfect sentinel or outrider.
10/10/12/13/13/15
10/10/13/14/13/15, +1 Int (level 2) | +1 Dex (level 5)
39 skill points, 36 +1 (level 1), +2 (level 4) from Int?
3 Athletics 2 (+2)
1 Acrobatics 1 (+1)
6 Perception 3 (+4)
1 Investigation 1 (+2)
3 Speech 2 (+4)
3 Bows 2 (+2)
3 Light Blades 2 (+2)
6 Dodge 3 (+3)
3 Handle Animal 2 (+4)
1 Ride 1 (+1)
6 Stealth 3 (+3)
3 Survival 2 (+3)
Feats: Combat Expertise (level 3), Improved Feint (level 6)
Class: Unchained Rogue 1 (level 6)
Saves: F +0 | R +2 | W +1
Alignment: LG
So feats, classes, spells and stuff are from 3.5
And are you running this on the boards here
So feats, classes, spells and stuff are from 3.5
Yes, or supposed to be anyway. Not sure where unchained rogue is coming from. Only one other player so I might allow the PF1 classes if everyone would prefer and there is good reason to like them.
And are you running this on the boards here
Yes, though I’ll set up a discord as well, a good spot for ooc chat, and posting resources and notes.
So feats, classes, spells and stuff are from 3.5Yes, or supposed to be anyway. Not sure where unchained rogue is coming from. Only one other player so I might allow the PF1 classes if everyone would prefer and there is good reason to like them.
Sorry, spazz'ed... guess a Rogue? Or are we going further back... Thief?
I get confused around that switch to Unearthed Arcana >>> Pathfinder era. And if that makes no sense, it proves my point :)
Option 1, Point Rolling. In this option, instead of rolling for stat values directly, you get a D6 for each point of whatever point buy you are going for, then roll for which stat each point gets put into. So if you were going with 10 point buy, then you’d roll 10D6, and all the ones would be strength, all the twos dexterity, etc. A variant of this is too keep a few points in reserve to place as the player desires.
Can you explain this some more I'm not sure I understand. Do I pick the order of the stats? Like assign 1's to Wis, 2's Cha 3's to Con? And are those the stats or do I apply that number as point buy.
Example:
(1's) 8+2 points 10
(2's) 8+8 points 15
(3's) 8+3 points 11
(4's) 8+4 points 12
(5's) 8+10 points 16
(6's) 8+0 points 8
So feats, classes, spells and stuff are from 3.5Yes, or supposed to be anyway. Not sure where unchained rogue is coming from. Only one other player so I might allow the PF1 classes if everyone would prefer and there is good reason to like them.Sorry, spazz'ed... guess a Rogue? Or are we going further back... Thief?
I get confused around that switch to Unearthed Arcana >>> Pathfinder era. And if that makes no sense, it proves my point :)
Just plain core 3.5.
That said, you haven’t asked for any other supplements and pathfinder classes aren’t that outlandish. My love of 3.5 is mostly in the secondary mechanics and math anyway, rather than the class abilities, and the reworking of class abilities is my favorite change pathfinder made, so it’s not that big of deal, but with all of the changes I made I didn’t really want to complicate things further. Some of the classes stack numbers a bit too much, but that shouldn’t be too outlandish to deal with, especially with only two players.
I’ll leave it therefore, to you two whether to use the pathfinder classes or keep it simple and stick with 3.5 classes.
Can you explain this some more I'm not sure I understand. Do I pick the order of the stats? Like assign 1's to Wis, 2's Cha 3's to Con? And are those the stats or do I apply that number as point buy.
They would have been assigned as point buy points.
I’m interested in your thoughts on the idea.That said, no one came by before last Thursday, so the other player’s choice on the matter stands, standard point buy rules in 3.5 with 26 points.
I like it in principle, I think it suffers from the same issue any roll based stat generation which is unbalanced PCs. One PC could roll 40 point buy and another could roll 15.
26 point buy: 16, 12, 14, 12, 10, 8
Lvl 1: Gain skill points equal to 6+Int
Lvl 2: Gain 6 skill points and a +1 to a stat
Lvl 3: Gain 6 skill points and a feat
Lvl 4: Gain skill points equal to 6+Int
Lvl 5: Gain 6 skill points and a +1 to a stat
Lvl 6: Gain 6 skill points, a feat, and my first level in my Class
I like it in principle, I think it suffers from the same issue any roll based stat generation which is unbalanced PCs. One PC could roll 40 point buy and another could roll 15.
Clearly it needs clarification then, as the whole point of it is that everyone gets the same point buy value.
So DM would roll the 10d6 and then players would assign the 1's, 2's ect to the stat of their choice?