Alchemist Archetype

[Gortle]

I'm just looking through the archetype in the remaster. One of my players wants to give it a try.

So the dedication feat gives you 4 Versatile Vials that last for ten minutes tops. Then you can take the Advanced Alchemy archetype feat to gain 4 daily Advanced Alchemy items.

So for 2 feats you are getting access to 8 items per day. You are going to be stuck with the item DC often as your Alchemist DC is going to be on the low side. So poison and some effects are going to be less good, but buffs, mutagens, healing are going to be great.

This seems to be really good value. I can see a lot of Inventors and Investigators using this, all the Int classes especially Wizards and Witches, and a whole lot of martial characters playing some sort of Geralt of Rivia.

What do you think?

[The Ronyon]

I think I want to see every version of the Inventor/ Alchemist mashup.
Weapons Inventor with Alchemical Ammo?
Armor Inventor dosed with Mutagens?
An Inventors Construct with poisoned Weapons AND dosed with Mutagens?

A Summoner gets twice the bang for the buck with Mutagens.
Can a Summoner use Alchemical items while merged?

I particularly want to see a Green Arrow type Archer/Alchemist.
I'm not smart enough to know how to optimize that, but it seems like good synergy.

[Qaianna]

My wizard is going to enjoy having a few spontaneous options. Especially when her turn as party healer comes up. Raw quantity is nice but she did have to scrap many old elixirs pre-remaster.

[Enchanter Tim]

I have a PFS Investigator/Alchemist bomber, and I'm uncertain whether to convert him to the remastered archetype. Up until now, he's benefited from levelx2 amount of bombs to be able to hurl, with his free recall knowledge helping him decide what type is best and Strategic Strike keeping the damage respectable. Devise a Stratagem helps him rarely waste a bomb.

But the remaster archetype will severely limit the number of bombs he has available, even though he can choose the type on the fly. He could revert to using a normal weapon at times, but that seems less fun. He hasn't really needed a real weapon since level 2.

On the other hand, as is I suspect he's going to start to fall behind in damage. His bombs won't increase in damage until level 15 (and never again), and while Strategic Strike will bump up at level 9 and 13, is that enough? He's more of a utility striker, but even then, it might be too low.

With PFS, if I take the remastered Investigator, I probably have to take the remastered Alchemist archetype too, right?

[Red Griffyn]

I think its a great archetype.

L2 - Alchemist Dedication (4 VVs)
L4 - Advanced Alchemy (4 VVs, 4 AAs)
L6 - Basic Concoction - Improvise Admixture (4+(1 to 3)VVs, 4 AAs)
L8 - Advanced Concoction - Efficient Alchemy (4+(1 to 3)VVs, 6+INT AAs)

If you strap that to an ancestry with a familiar you can get 1 more VV and 1 more AA from the "Extra Alchemy" and "Extra Vial" abilities.

Here is who I think will want or benefit the most. Most assume you will slot in a shifting spider collar at L5 and free action apply a mutagen for pretty much every combat per day.

Quicksilver Mutagen: Any ranged martial (gunslinger/fighter/ranger/monk/champion) for a +1 to attack or a ~15% DPR increase. Ranged D10 HD classes can handle a step down to D8 without too much issue and they aren't forced to be in a 20ft range like a bomber alchemist.

Warblood Mutagen: Any melee weapon martial (barbarian/fighter/ranger/monk/swashbuckler/inventor/champion) for a +1 to attack or a 15% DPR increase. The downsides of the mutagen are very minimal.

Drakeheart Mutagen: Various builds that want improved AC for survivability.

Stoneblood Mutagen:Various tank builds who don't have access to resistance easily or can get bludgeoning resistance (think dragon blood scaly hide STR monk that uses ancesteral paragon for draconic resistance bludgeoning from being an adamantine dragon blood at L3 with resistance to all physical damage in combat).

Energy Mutagen: Basically a free +1 to +2d6 on melee weapon strikes for melee builds, but you'd probably pick up a heritage with resistance/resistance rings for all 4 major types.

At L16+ fighter with the bestial mutagen and mutant physique could be cool for a one-shot but not really worth running the rest of the time.

The other mutagens are more out of combat utility for skill boosts, which could be fine for social encounters and what not, but not something I'd dip and use limited resources on for a +1 to a skill on since many of them come with bad in combat ac penalties are accuracy penalties.

I would think investigators would love it because you get significantly more items by going into alchemist as a dedication vs. taking it as your alchemical sciences methodology. So you can sort of effectively have methodologies.

There are other elixirs and alchemical items that might be worth it. I'm not an alchemist encyclopedia like some users on these forums.

[HammerJack]

Enchanter Tim wrote:

I have a PFS Investigator/Alchemist bomber, and I'm uncertain whether to convert him to the remastered archetype. Up until now, he's benefited from levelx2 amount of bombs to be able to hurl, with his free recall knowledge helping him decide what type is best and Strategic Strike keeping the damage respectable. Devise a Stratagem helps him rarely waste a bomb.

But the remaster archetype will severely limit the number of bombs he has available, even though he can choose the type on the fly. He could revert to using a normal weapon at times, but that seems less fun. He hasn't really needed a real weapon since level 2.

On the other hand, as is I suspect he's going to start to fall behind in damage. His bombs won't increase in damage until level 15 (and never again), and while Strategic Strike will bump up at level 9 and 13, is that enough? He's more of a utility striker, but even then, it might be too low.

With PFS, if I take the remastered Investigator, I probably have to take the remastered Alchemist archetype too, right?

The alchemist archetype is just feats, not your class chassis. You use the new version of feats that have been reprinted with the same name, treated like errata, whether you do the remaster rebuild of the character or not.

There is no option to keep using the old version off the alchemist archetype in PFS.

[ottdmk]

The archetype is stronger in some ways, weaker in others. The Core Rulebook archetype could, by 20th, make 40 Items each day, while the Player Core 2 version tops out considerably lower, and somewhere between four-seven of them have to be made with Quick Alchemy.

On the other hand, the Item Level progression in Core Rulebook was horrible, and topped out at 15, while the Items created with Player Core 2 can be your Level or lower.

The new archetype is strongest for someone who can keep a hand free (for Quick Alchemy) and wants to use an Elixir of some kind (Mutagen or other) every combat. There is a lot of potential there.

[Gortle]

ottdmk wrote:

the Item Level progression in Core Rulebook was horrible, and topped out at 15, while the Items created with Player Core 2 can be your Level or lower.

Costing 2 extra feats as well. in the preremaster version and still being alway 5 levels behind.

Getting on level items is very important. So you can get the top mutagens as a part timer.