The Curious Companion feat from Wilderness Origins (published 2019) states
"Prerequisite: Animal companion class feature.
Benefits: You can select a plant companion or
vermin companion as your animal companion."
Per Ultimate Magic (published 2013), "In addition to the normal choices of animal companions listed in the Core Rulebook, a druid who is so inclined may select a vermin as her companion." No reference to any required feats.
It would seem to me, based on this, that:
1) Anyone who gets an animal companion as a druid (Druids, Wild Child brawlers, Hunters, Mad Dog barbarians, Sylvan sorcerers, maybe others) can take a vermin without needing the Curious Companion feat.
2) Anyone who gets an animal companion from a limited list (Rangers, Castellan Cavaliers, Lunar Oracles, Animal Ally feat, who else?) can take Curious Companion to get a vermin.
3) What about classes that get mounts? The Cavalier Mount "functions as a Druid's animal companion" but has a restricted list. Does that put it in category 2, or are they excluded entirely?
Am I understanding the uses/necessity of this feat correctly?
The underlying project is wanting a martial class with a wasp or butterfly companion for a champion of Calistria or Desna.
Ultimate Magic states that a Druid can take a vermin companion. This is listed under class options for druids. It mentions no other classes so RAW those other classes cannot take vermin companions.
The wording for any class that gains an animal companion is that your effective druid level is equal to X. You are not a druid and do not gain access to any other druid class options that are not specifically granted to you.
Curious Companion also allows you to choose a plant for your animal companion.
Mysterious Stranger wrote: Ultimate Magic states that a Druid can take a vermin companion. This is listed under class options for druids. It mentions no other classes so RAW those other classes cannot take vermin companions.
The wording for any class that gains an animal companion is that your effective druid level is equal to X. You are not a druid and do not gain access to any other druid class options that are not specifically granted to you.
Curious Companion also allows you to choose a plant for your animal companion.
Hmm...that gets even deeper into specific wordings than I'd thought was needed. I think you're right, though.
For example, Wild Child and Hunter say they "can begin play with any of the animals available to a druid." While Sylvan Sorcerer says "At 1st level, you gain an animal companion. Your effective druid level for this ability is equal to your sorcerer level – 3 (minimum 1st)." And Mad Dog says "At 1st level, a mad dog gains the service of an animal companion, using the barbarian’s level as her effective druid level."
By your reasoning, it could be argued that Wild Child and Hunter don't need the feat, but everyone else does. Or are you taking the harder position that Wild Child and Hunter specifically reference "animals" and so are excluded from the Druid Ultimate Magic benefit?
I'm inclined to agree with the latter, as I find it easier to believe that Paizo collectively used inconsistent wording across multiple publications than that they intentionally privileged Brawlers and Hunters over Sorcerers and Barbarians.
@belacRLJ for some reason you picked the few archtypes\class options that do not limit the companion type.
just look at ranger or cavalier to see those who DO limit the type of companion for which this might be more suitable.
zza ni wrote: @belacRLJ for some reason you picked the few archtypes\class options that do not limit the companion type.
just look at ranger or cavalier to see those who DO limit the type of companion for which this might be more suitable.
If I understand it, you’re saying that my original post has it right but that category 3 (mounts) is part of category 2 (can take this feat and needs to to get a vermin companion?
The reason I’m focusing on the non-Druid options that don’t limit choices is because it’s not obvious to me whether you or Mysterious Stranger is right.
Has there ever been official clarification of the Curious Companion feat, a PFS ruling, etc?
BelacRLJ wrote: The Curious Companion feat from Wilderness Origins (published 2019) states ... [PFS legal]Curious Companion feat from PPC:Wilderness Origins
no PFS Campaign Clarifications on this feat (there are many for other entries). Paizo didn't do FAQs for PPC products (otherwise they would have been quite busy).
The text of the feat is simple and clear.
like any feat, nobody needs to take it, it's optional and usually build dependent.
Is it a good option? maybe but not likely as it just expands possible choices to average/below average combat creature types. To be good it would need to affect CR, HD, HPs, or caster's effective level for calculating their animal companion (like Magical Knack for casters). It is just for those players that want RP flavor choices as some archetypes open those creature types already (for free).
A mount is only an animal companion if the class says so. As it is a restricted type you'd have to peruse the Mount list to see what is available for purchase or check monster entries for the term "mount" so it can satisfy both conditions. Often you'll have to consult your GM as you've gone into the oddball zone and Paizo didn't create a lot of mounts (compared to improved familiars).
My Advice is to take the right class or archetype and avoid this feat, or take something like Boon Companion, Monstrous Companion, Beast Speaker, Stalker's Focus instead.
Azothath wrote:
The text of the feat is simple and clear.
like any feat, nobody needs to take it, it's optional and usually build dependent.
Is it a good option? maybe but not likely as it just expands possible choices to average/below average combat creature types. To be good it would need to affect CR, HD, HPs, or caster's effective level for calculating their animal companion (like Magical Knack for casters). It is just for those players that want RP flavor choices as some archetypes open those creature types already (for free).
A mount is only an animal companion if the class says so.
Well yes, that is my question here:
1) What builds need it?
2) Which archetypes open up vermin for free?
I'm not seeking to powergame, but going for RP flavor choices. Most specifically, I'd like to understand which non-Druid class archetypes can take a vermin companion without this feat, as it is true that it's not a strong feat in itself.
BelacRLJ wrote:
2) Which archetypes open up vermin for free?
I'm not seeking to powergame, but going for RP flavor choices. Most specifically, I'd like to understand which non-Druid class archetypes can take a vermin companion without this feat, as it is true that it's not a strong feat in itself.
Vermin Tamer (Cavalier), Verminous Hunter (Hunter), and i wouldnt be surprised to find a ranger archetype
one of the issues with a lot of feats like this is there is the class feature named "animal companion" belongs to the Hunter. Theres a Druid ability Nature Bond, and a Ranger ability called Hunters Bond, Mad Dog Barbarian gets War Beast, Cavaliers get Mount. Those abilities grant an animal companion, but aren't named animal companion. But as for class abilities named Animal Companion, i only see Hunter.
Name Violation wrote: one of the issues with a lot of feats like this is there is the class feature named "animal companion" belongs to the Hunter. Theres a Druid ability Nature Bond, and a Ranger ability called Hunters Bond, Mad Dog Barbarian gets War Beast, Cavaliers get Mount. Those abilities grant an animal companion, but aren't named animal companion. But as for class abilities named Animal Companion, i only see Hunter.
I mean, yes, the real answer is that Curious Companion is a crappily-written feat that doesn't clarify how it relates to the many known animal companion-related class features that existed at the time of publication, and as Azothath notes there aren't a lot of subsequent clarifications of PPC content.
I'm just disappointed to find that.
You have to read the description of the class or archetype that is granting the animal companion. Both the Hunter and Wild Child archetype state they can have any of the animal companions available to a druid. The animal domain of the cleric does not state that they can take any companion available to a druid, nor does the Mad Dog archetype of for barbarians. So, a hunter or Wild Child do not need the feat to take vermin companion but do need the feat to take a plant companion. A cleric with the animal companion would need the feat to take a vermin companion.
War Beast (Ex): At 1st level, a mad dog gains the service of an animal companion, using the barbarian’s level as her effective druid level. This ability replaces the rage powers gained at 2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level.
The description of the class feature war beast for the mad dog specifically states it is an animal companion. Therefore, a mad dog could take the feat to gain a vermin companion.
When figuring out a rule you need to read and pay attention to the entire description of the class feature in question.
The Sylvan Bloodline is a variant of the Fey Bloodline. Fey usually are close to animals, but do not really have much in the way of connection to vermin. Hunters are a combination of Druid and Ranger so share many things with both classes.
search - "animal companion" on AoN
so all that classes etc that don't are the compliment of the above (after verifying each one).
Advice
All animal companions run off the PC's level so multiclassing causes a double hit to the primary class.
Pets are available for purchase (which makes it simple but generally low HD). You can always polymorph a friendly(charm monster) pet into whatever you want, like tiger into wasp (!).
Blood Sentinel:T3 spell offers a familiar. You could get your GM to approve a vermin model and use that. Not a big deal really.
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