A swallowed creature can attack the monster that has swallowed it, but only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or less. The swallowing creature is off-guard against the attack. If the monster takes piercing or slashing damage equaling or exceeding the listed Rupture value from a single attack or spell, the swallowed creature cuts itself free. A creature that gets free by either Escaping or cutting itself free can immediately breathe and exits the swallowing monster's space.
So to cut my way out with a spell, not only do I need to beat the DC 5 flat check for using a manipulate action while grabbed, but it has to do enough piercing or slashing damage to beat the Rupture value.
On top of that, it has to not be an attack, or if it is an attack, it has to use my unarmed attack or a weapon of light Bulk? So hand of the apprentice or telekinetic projectile would work, but only if I fling a weapon of light Bulk?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The discrepancy of what is allowed between
but only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or less
and
slashing damage equaling or exceeding the listed Rupture value from a single attack or spell
is interesting and worth bringing up.
None of us can rule on it universally. The GM should be able to rule one way or another fairly easily at the table.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Another important note on casting spells while swallowed.
....If you speak (including Casting a Spell) you lose all remaining air.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and start suffocating. You can't recover from being unconscious and must attempt a DC 20 Fortitude save at the end of each of your turns......
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Another important note on casting spells while swallowed.
....If you speak (including Casting a Spell) you lose all remaining air.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and start suffocating. You can't recover from being unconscious and must attempt a DC 20 Fortitude save at the end of each of your turns......
That's what Air Bubble is for.
The discrepancy of what is allowed between
but only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or lessand
slashing damage equaling or exceeding the listed Rupture value from a single attack or spellis interesting and worth bringing up.
None of us can rule on it universally. The GM should be able to rule one way or another fairly easily at the table.
Yes the rules looks contradictory but as GM I would allow a caster that is able or don't need to breath to use a melee slashing/piercing spell like Gouging Claw to try to Escape. Hand of the apprentice or Telekinetic projectile I won't accept because they are ranged spell attacks.
That said probably still way better to try to Escape instead. Including I always recommends casters to invest into Acrobatics to not become in a bad position when grabbed and when note that the enemy is able to Swallow you try to cast Unfettered Movement for your own safety.
That's what Air Bubble is for.Another important note on casting spells while swallowed.
....If you speak (including Casting a Spell) you lose all remaining air.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and start suffocating. You can't recover from being unconscious and must attempt a DC 20 Fortitude save at the end of each of your turns......
There is a problem here:
Reduce your remaining air by 1 round at the end of each of your turns, or by 2 if you attacked or cast any spells that turn. You also lose 1 round worth of air each time you are critically hit or critically fail a save against a damaging effect. If you speak (including Casting a Spell) you lose all remaining air
in that there are two rules for what happens when you cast a spell and can't breathe. Do you lose 2 air or all your air?
That's what Air Bubble is for.Another important note on casting spells while swallowed.
....If you speak (including Casting a Spell) you lose all remaining air.
When you run out of air, you fall unconscious and start suffocating. You can't recover from being unconscious and must attempt a DC 20 Fortitude save at the end of each of your turns......
There is a problem here:
Reduce your remaining air by 1 round at the end of each of your turns, or by 2 if you attacked or cast any spells that turn. You also lose 1 round worth of air each time you are critically hit or critically fail a save against a damaging effect. If you speak (including Casting a Spell) you lose all remaining airin that there are two rules for what happens when you cast a spell and can't breathe. Do you lose 2 air or all your air?
I think the distinction here is for Cast a Spell and Casting a Spell including speaking... unfortunately the sharp distinction that used to exist between these two types of spells no longer exists.
That is over the top. Making a simple assertion or asking a question is reasonable.
The issue relates to Air Bubble as it is cast after/as you can no longer breathe.
That 2 of you point out the distinction can be made via the Subtle trait, gives it a reasonable answer. So I'll accept that. I've already updated my records.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
>>A swallowed creature can attack the monster that has swallowed it, but only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or less. The swallowing creature is off-guard against the attack.
>If the monster takes piercing or slashing damage equaling or exceeding the listed Rupture value from a single attack or spell, the swallowed creature cuts itself free.
These lines, despite being consecutive, have no bearing on each other. It does not say you can attack the monster with a spell while swallowed. So you cannot attack the monster with a spell while swallowed, "only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or less."
You put an interesting point here. In fact the rules aren't contradictory they are just over restrictive. So by RAW a swallowed creature cannot cast Gouging Claw to free itself because it's a "melee spell attack" but it isn't classified as unarmed nor light. Yet RAI I can see this easily qualifying as an unarmed attack.
But it ALSO does not say the swallowed creature needs to inflict the piercing or slashing damage from a single attack or spell. Only that IF the monster takes that much damage from a single attack or spell, the swallowed creature cuts itself free. Another party member may use a spell to inflict the required damage
Unfortunately it says indirectly:
A swallowed creature is grabbed, is slowed 1, and has to hold its breath or start suffocating. The swallowed creature takes the listed amount of damage when first swallowed and at the end of each of its turns while it's swallowed. If the victim Escapes this ability's grabbed condition, it exits through the monster's mouth. This frees any other creature captured in the monster's mouth or jaws. A swallowed creature can attack the monster that has swallowed it, but only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or less. The swallowing creature is off-guard against the attack. If the monster takes piercing or slashing damage equaling or exceeding the listed Rupture value from a single attack or spell, the swallowed creature cuts itself free. A creature that gets free by either Escaping or cutting itself free can immediately breathe and exits the swallowing monster's space.
The point where this is written remounts as it's the own creature that needs to make the damage not an outside creature. Once again this doesn't say that some GM cannot RAI it and allow that an external creature explicitly trying to cut its stomach to free an ally but probably this will be pretty harder to do (requiring some difficult penalty or AC bonus to the creature that has Swallowed Whole) because it needs to both know where to cut and due the creature constant movement during a battle.
You are always so eager to fabricate ambiguities in the rules where none exist.
Please let us try to avoid ad hominem. Nothing good comes from it.
Now I'm thinking something a bit stupid but. There's something preventing a creature inside a monster to Trip/Grab it?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Now I'm thinking something a bit stupid but. There's something preventing a creature inside a monster to Trip/Grab it?
This is why TTRPG games should be run by GMs, not AI.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
These lines, despite being consecutive, have no bearing on each other.
That's a pretty bold statement.
But it ALSO does not say the swallowed creature needs to inflict the piercing or slashing damage from a single attack or spell. Only that IF the monster takes that much damage from a single attack or spell, the swallowed creature cuts itself free. Another party member may use a spell to inflict the required damage
If I am chillin' inside a creature that swallowed me whole, and someone else hits the creature with a greatsword and does sufficient damage, can I really say that I cut myself free?
Now I'm thinking something a bit stupid but. There's something preventing a creature inside a monster to Trip/Grab it?
I could see those actions giving the monster cramps, thereby preventing movement or causing them to fall over. But Grapple has a size restriction, doesn't it?
I think this is completely false. What these lines do - they restrict attacks. Or Strikes more precisely (no, I don't think this here means 'all actions with Attack trait' and thus concerns some spells and Escape; it doesn't). They say nothing about spells. So it's the opposite - all spells work. But - speaking and breathing restrictions still apply. And there's also manipulate too.>A swallowed creature can attack the monster that has swallowed it, but only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or less. The swallowing creature is off-guard against the attack.
>If the monster takes piercing or slashing damage equaling or exceeding the listed Rupture value from a single attack or spell, the swallowed creature cuts itself free.
These lines, despite being consecutive, have no bearing on each other. It does not say you can attack the monster with a spell while swallowed. So you cannot attack the monster with a spell while swallowed, "only with unarmed attacks or with weapons of light Bulk or less."
You're saying that they just mean Strikes when they mention attacking? Maybe the item damage rules are supposed to be read the same way, such that Strikes can target unattended objects. Hmm...
Now I'm thinking something a bit stupid but. There's something preventing a creature inside a monster to Trip/Grab it?I could see those actions giving the monster cramps, thereby preventing movement or causing them to fall over. But Grapple has a size restriction, doesn't it?
Trip has size restriction too but this basically goes way with Titan Wrestler only the largest ones can resist and this feat is basically a most have for those who invest into Athletics to Trip/Grab.
Trip has size restriction too but this basically goes way with Titan Wrestler only the largest ones can resist and this feat is basically a most have for those who invest into Athletics to Trip/Grab.Now I'm thinking something a bit stupid but. There's something preventing a creature inside a monster to Trip/Grab it?I could see those actions giving the monster cramps, thereby preventing movement or causing them to fall over. But Grapple has a size restriction, doesn't it?
Well, if anyone can give them cramps, it's someone who wrestles titans.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
You might "chill" inside a monster that swallowed you, but I would be fighting to cut myself out even with my bare teeth and nails if necessary.
Even while unconscious? Because my your interpretation, being freed by an ally with that ally's actions rather than your own would count as "cutting yourself free."
I do get the balance concern, as Swallow Whole is pretty dangerous. But the language "cuts itself free" means it's definitely the swallowed creature that has to do it.