|
So, Am I the only one confused about the hazard Stealth bonus? Like, is that the trap's bonus to stealth? Should I roll a d20 and add that bonus and see if the PCs can find it? If so . . . it seems awfully high. And some scenarios expect the players to find and disarm the hazards to complete the mission. Not just face-check them.
Like, I'm running an officially published game right now, I won't say which because spoilers, but in an upcoming section the PCs are expected to find and disarm two hazards that are not obvious. Each round the hazards hurt the PCs in a way that does not give away their presence, and there are other things to do in the round (basically saving civilians.) The stealth bonus on these traps, for a level 7 encounter, is +21! So assuming they take 10, that's a DC 31. A level seven rogue, who's master in perception and has a modest wisdom bonus (say, +1) has a +14. They'd need a 17 or better on the die to spot it. And that's if they even think to look for it. It's a hazard, not a trap, so trapspotter doesn't work, and they likely will think that all the bad stuff happening is just part of the scenario's flavor and won't be looking for a hazard.
And if you are, say, a wizard looking for the hazard? Forget about it, you'd only succeed on a nat 20 because it would bump your failure up to a success.
AND YOU HAVE TO FIND TWO OF THEM!
|
GM Core p. 110 gives the typical stealth DCs for hazards, and mentions that getting the stealth modifier for a complex hazard is the DC - 10.
The Extreme DC for a level 7 hazard is 30, and high is 27. So the hazards in your adventure are 1 point over Extreme, which should indeed feel pretty extreme. (A level 8 hazard would be a 31 Extreme.)
The previous page mentions that having one extreme DC is normal:
Extreme: The hazard is world class in this statistic and
can challenge almost any character. Almost all hazards
have one extreme statistic because hazards normally
activate only if they have gone unnoticed or if someone
critically failed to disable them. Does it have an extreme
Stealth DC that makes it incredibly hard to find, an
extreme Disable DC that makes it perilous to disable,
or an extreme save DC that makes it deadly in the event
it triggers? These are the most common choices, as each
affects a different phase of encountering the hazard.
So this hazard is likely to not be spotted and therefore trigger. But after that, unless the hazard has a specific ability that really says you don't detect it even while active, I think you just detect it. Similar to how even if you don't detect an enemy beforehand, if combat starts, everyone rolls initiative because "battle background music just started".
It's a hazard, not a trap, so trapspotter doesn't work, and they likely will think that all the bad stuff happening is just part of the scenario's flavor and won't be looking for a hazard.
I think this is something you as a GM need to tell them. It could be a hazard, or it could be a victory point minigame that has specific actions players can take to interact with it. Players can't know how they're allowed to play the game unless you tell them.
It's important to decide what to keep secret, and what to reveal to the players. I think revealing which rules engine is being used is generally good.
"Who is doing this to us? What are they going to do next?" is a good mystery.
"How long do turns last in this scene, how many actions can I take, what can I interact with" is not a good mystery.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And that's if they even think to look for it. It's a hazard, not a trap, so trapspotter doesn't work,I think Trap Finder absolutely works for all hazards. All traps in the game when they are not Snares or simple plot devices are hazards. And even snares set by NPCs are basically hazards. What is even the point of the feat if it wouldn't work for hazards?
All traps are hazards, but not all hazards are traps. Trapspotter is only for traps.
Haunts for example are also hazards, but not traps.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And that's if they even think to look for it. It's a hazard, not a trap, so trapspotter doesn't work,I think Trap Finder absolutely works for all hazards. All traps in the game when they are not Snares or simple plot devices are hazards. And even snares set by NPCs are basically hazards. What is even the point of the feat if it wouldn't work for hazards?All traps are hazards, but not all hazards are traps. Trapspotter is only for traps.
Haunts for example are also hazards, but not traps.
I know. I am just not sure we should make this distinction in this case. But yes, maybe you are right, this was intended and we should exclude haunts and environmental hazards. But not anything more, for all traps, even magical, it works.
Actually, there's a trait 'trap'. This should help.
I'm sure the distinction was intended. Trapfinder is a level 1 feat; Hazard Finder is a level 8 feat that does it for all kinds of hazards, not just traps. Spirit Soother allows you to detect haunts even when not Searching.
Compared to other similar feats rogues actually get their trap-only option really early level, but they also need it more. It enables them to Avoid Notice without being a total sitting duck against traps. But it doesn't completely devalue Searching because it really only does traps, not haunts, natural hazards like potential mudslides, hidden treasure, secret doors, and hidden enemies.
I learned something new today.