Need Help: What's the best chassis for a Takedown specialist for Outlaws of Alkenstar?

[Flames of Chaos]

Hello
I am starting an Outlaws campaign, so like the title says: I need help figuring out the best chassis/build for a bounty hunter-esque take-down artist. I've tried looking up guides and other articles in the advice area, but I'm lost at an endless sea here.

Right now I see Swash gymnast (for the eventual Daring Do combo at 10th) or the Flurry Ranger as the most straight-forward and interesting builds; the first because this would be my second swing at the class, the second because I've never been that attracted in general in the past to rangers and would love an excuse to try the build. (Also, I can see some the potential in the Flurry Edge/Twin Takedown tree).

While the above two are the ones Ive been focused on the most, I'm open to other suggestions with the one caveat of "AMMA gonna need a REEEEL good reason to go monk". Doesn't fit the flavor of what I had in my head, but still open if there's a persuasive argument.

Any help is super appreciated and hope I'm not asking for retreads of a billion other articles my lack of Google Fu is causing. (P.S. My focus for this is we have like 1.5 meleers in the party, and we could really use a more front-line focused build.)

Thanks a ton in advance!

[Finoan]

What, exactly, do you mean by "Takedown"?

If you are wanting hunting/tracking abilities like a Ranger there is the Bounty Hunter.

If you are wanting to bring people in alive, there is Gladiator with Stage Fighting or Investigator multiclass with Takedown Expert.

All of those could be put onto any (but probably martial type) class base.

[Flames of Chaos]

Finoan wrote:

What, exactly, do you mean by "Takedown"?

If you are wanting hunting/tracking abilities like a Ranger there is the Bounty Hunter.

If you are wanting to bring people in alive, there is Gladiator with Stage Fighting or Investigator multiclass with Takedown Expert.

All of those could be put onto any (but probably martial type) class base.

I mean a char who specializes in returning bounties alive, but isn't a gimp in a combat scenario, hencethe two mains I was originally looking at.

That being said, I thought the primary way to do this would be using the athletics attack maneuvers. If there's a better way, please, please, please enlighten me as this is my first attempt at trying this kind of build.

Thanks!

[Tactical Drongo]

If you want to go for maneuevers check the monk and wrestler archetype

monk is also very good in the sense that they can effortlessly use nonlethal damage

otherwise what fionan said

you can also take literally any class and use a merciful or baseline nonlethal weapon

there are no maneuvers at all that completely take an enemy out of the combat, but maneuvers are great for battlefield and action control

that all said, it is really hard to nail down what *exactly* you are looking for

you got two good classes as option and a base tactic to go with it? What is wrong with that?

[Finoan]

What I have found is that the game rules don't do a very good job of representing the character concept of "I'm not going to hurt you, just hold you down and tie you up."

Tying someone up with rope is technically a thing - but not a very defined one. The only place I know of that it is referenced is in the Escape action - which doesn't actually say how to tie someone up. Just that escaping from being tied up is a check against the Thievery DC of the character doing the tying.

There are also Manacles but those can only be applied as an exploration activity.

The next hurdle is that while grabbed and prone are great conditions to apply to an enemy, they don't prevent the enemy from continuing to fight. You can certainly build a character themed around grappling and tripping opponents, but at some point you or your allies still have to take them out.

So if you are wanting the "take 'em down, but bring 'em in alive" type of character, you are going to want something that will let you do nonlethal damage. Either using weapons that have the trait already, or one of the options that lets you add it to any of your attacks. Including a houserule or campaign rule like Agents of Edgewatch has that simply lets all player characters decide to do nonlethal damage at no penalty and with no character build investment.

And you will probably want the rest of your party in on the concept too (especially the GM). Because it is the last hit that drops the enemy that counts as far as nonlethal goes. If you do 99/100 HP damage as nonlethal and then one of your buddies hits him with a dagger, he dies. If you and your buddies do 99/100 damage as lethal damage and then you bonk him over the head with a Sap, then he is only KO - even though he is bleeding profusely and nearly dead.

[Dr. Frank Funkelstein]

Our monk wrestler (free archetype) is really good in alkenstar, we had several situations where whirling throw saved us.

With the specific adventure path in mind, i would not suggest a build that comes together at lvl 10.

My current backup character is a hard tail goblin ruffian rogue with martial artist dedication, i always wanted to try the synergy of "the harder they fall" with tail spin.
I feel that entering a stance is a much higher opportunity cost when you cannot follow up with a flurry of blows though.

[Dorian 'Grey']

Magus (Twisting Tree) [Wrestler] will provide plenty of dps, lock down shananagins.

[FreneticKineticAscetic]

Outside the use of nonlethal weapons and athletics maneuvers, I agree that the best chance at making it work is discussing it with your GM. They also have the option of using recovery checks for any creature.

Quote:

Player Core pg. 410: Player characters, their companions, and other significant characters and creatures don't automatically die when they reach 0 Hit Points. Instead, they are knocked out and are at risk of death. The GM might determine that villains, powerful monsters, special NPCs, and enemies with special abilities that are likely to bring them back to the fight (like ferocity, regeneration, or healing magic) can use these rules as well.

a valuable bounty seems like a reasonable candidate for "special NPC," so you might be able to stabilize them even after taking lethal damage. This can bog down combat, so I'd talk to your GM about it beforehand.

[Flames of Chaos]

Thanks all, for the help with this concept! I think on some level I was pining for the good ol' days of Dirty Trick maneuvers, even if it took WAAAAAAYYYYY too many feats just to get them to decent action sinks for the enemy.

Was definitely thinking wrestler at one point, and may do this with a different class; just was kinda torn between the ranger vs. gymnast swash as they seemed the closest to on brand for the concept I wanted.

Have a good night all and again thanks for the help!