Hi ^^
I would like opinions about a template I am making ;)
Mainly from a game balance standpoint, not if i should make it :P
Elite (CR +1)
Creatures with the elite template are more resistant and more powerful than their ordinary cousins.
- Challenge Rating: +1.
- Hit Dice: The creature has maximum hit points per HD.
- Feats: An elite creature gains Toughness as a bonus feat, if it already had this feat its effects are doubled.
- Special Qualities: An elite creature gains the following special qualities.
-- Bloodied (Ex)
An elite creature is considered bloodied when its hit points reach half their starting value, when this happens its other special abilities become more powerful.
An elite creature stays bloodied until the end of the combat even if its healed back to more than half its hit points.
-- Multiple actions (Ex)
An elite creature can take an additional standard or move action per turn, this action is taken at half her initiative value and can't be used to move, cast a spell or use a spell-like ability.
When bloodied an elite creature can instead take a full turn of actions at half her initiative value, this does not count as a new turn for capacity or effect that happens at every creature turn.
-- Improved saves (Su)
An elite creature can reroll one failed save each turn, in addition if the elite creature is under an ongoing spell effect she can attempt a new save against the initial DC for that spell effect every round as a standard action.
When bloodied an elite creature can instead succeed in one failed save each turn, and can still try to break free of a spell effect as noted above.
-- Resilience (Su)
When bloodied an elite creature gains fast healing HD/2 (minimum 1).
Having problems with your players plowing through bad guys huh?
So this Template would be way more than CR+1, and really it's unnecessary - most types of bad guys have higher CR versions already available, simply use them instead.
Having problems with your players plowing through bad guys huh?
So this Template would be way more than CR+1, and really it's unnecessary - most types of bad guys have higher CR versions already available, simply use them instead.
Why would it be way more than +1, 2 of the same monster is CR +2 and that template is weaker than that so at most it would be CR +2.
I'd rather base it on the Advanced Template and leave it kinda simple. Basically you have too much in one template.
Elite template +1 CR
Requirement: Advanced template.
> Quick Rules: +1 on all rolls (including damage rolls) and special ability DCs; +3 to AC and CMD; +1 hp/HD; Gain one combat feat or Evasion(Ex). Understand what (me, you, no, good, bad, big, little, ate, want) in common mean. Add a usable weapon, armor, or (consumable) magic item of resultant 500*CR gp (commonly mwk armor/barding and possibly +1 enhancement or more).
> Rebuild Rules: AC: +2 natural armor. Ability Scores: +2 to all. Note: creatures that gain a 3 or higher Intelligence score do not gain sentience and remain animals or their type and may only gain tricks and the simple understanding of up to (3*INT) words in sylvan, common, or the trainer's language. See Dolch word list from primer to first grade for word examples. Feats: Gain one combat feat or Evasion(Ex). Equipment: The creature gains a usable weapon, armor, or magic item(s) using the new creature's CR of 500*CR gp in total value. The creature may have: up to 3 Wands which may have 6 to 25 changes with 15 being the average; up to 4 Scrolls which may have up to 4 of the same spell each; up to 4 magical Potions. The creature must be able to use the gained equipment as it does not gain a proficiency, spell list, or skills directly from this template. Creatures do not gain size due to this template.In addition add a feat Greater Toughness(general), req:toughness or regeneration. Add +1 HP per HD and an effective +2 (natural, profane, or sacred) Con for determining death or stabilizing.
I do think my template is simpler as it does not alter any roll or score of the base creature...
I'd rather base it on the Advanced Template and leave it kinda simple. Basically you have too much in one template.
Elite template +1 CR
Requirement: Advanced template.
> Quick Rules: +1 on all rolls (including damage rolls) and special ability DCs; +3 to AC and CMD; +1 hp/HD; Gain one combat feat or Evasion(Ex). Understand what (me, you, no, good, bad, big, little, ate, want) in common mean. Add a usable weapon, armor, or (consumable) magic item of resultant 500*CR gp (commonly mwk armor/barding and possibly +1 enhancement or more).
> Rebuild Rules: AC: +2 natural armor. Ability Scores: +2 to all. Note: creatures that gain a 3 or higher Intelligence score do not gain sentience and remain animals or their type and may only gain tricks and the simple understanding of up to (3*INT) words in sylvan, common, or the trainer's language. See Dolch word list from primer to first grade for word examples. Feats: Gain one combat feat or Evasion(Ex). Equipment: The creature gains a usable weapon, armor, or magic item(s) using the new creature's CR of 500*CR gp in total value. The creature may have: up to 3 Wands which may have 6 to 25 changes with 15 being the average; up to 4 Scrolls which may have up to 4 of the same spell each; up to 4 magical Potions. The creature must be able to use the gained equipment as it does not gain a proficiency, spell list, or skills directly from this template. Creatures do not gain size due to this template.In addition add a feat Greater Toughness(general), req:toughness or regeneration. Add +1 HP per HD and an effective +2 (natural, profane, or sacred) Con for determining death or stabilizing.
In addition this does not counter act a bit of the action economy by giving more actions to the boss.
If i were to use an existing template i would rather use the Agile mythic creature simple template.
in that case use the Agile (MR 1, CR +1) template as "mythic" signals what you've done, requires a mythic level, and keeps you near RAW.In addition this does not counter act a bit of the action economy by giving more actions to the boss.
If i were to use an existing template i would rather use the Agile mythic creature simple template.
Thanks for your advice but as stated in my post I am not looking for "don't do it" type of advice but opinions and advice on the balance of the template ;)
Thanks for your advice but as stated in my post I am not looking for "don't do it" type of advice but opinions and advice on the balance of the template ;)Your template is not balanced, not even close.
Thanks for your well argumented feedback :)
Why would it be way more than +1, 2 of the same monster is CR +2 and that template is weaker than that so at most it would be CR +2.Having problems with your players plowing through bad guys huh?
So this Template would be way more than CR+1, and really it's unnecessary - most types of bad guys have higher CR versions already available, simply use them instead.
that's not how CR works for a single monster.
this would be at Least a CR+2, if not a CR+3 for any monster.
the max hit points and toughness are no big deal, we do that as standard play anyway, but that alone would be a CR+1 boost.
it's the extra actions, reroll saving throws, and the auto succeed on a save that puts it over the top.
Most spells which allow a save will fail anyway, there's no real need to enhance this effect.
that's not how CR works for a single monster.
I disagree, an encounter with a CR 4 monster is CR 4, an encounter with 2 CR 4 monsters is CR 6, an encounter with a CR 6 monster is CR 6 so it's stands that a CR 6 monster must be as tough as 2 CR 4 monsters and a template that would make a CR 4 monster as tough as a 2 CR 4 monsters would be CR +2.
the max hit points and toughness are no big deal, we do that as standard play anyway, but that alone would be a CR+1 boost.
A CR 1 creature is supposed to deplete about a quarter of the resources of a party of four level 1 PCs so 1 CR is roughly 1 level in raw power.
And a feat and a few hp is hardly equivalent to 1 level of power.I like it initially, but I agree that it is too powerful as written.
Thanks and after reading your post i do agree a bit:
Extra actions. I agree that i went a bit too far so i decided to remove the standard action by default.Imroved saves. Indeed the automatic success was in poor taste, i changed it too.
Resilience. Completely removed.
Here is the updated version, what do you think:
Elite (CR +1)
Creatures with the elite template are more resistant and more powerful than their ordinary cousins.
- Challenge Rating: +1.
- Hit Dice: The creature has maximum hit points per HD.
- Feats: An elite creature gains Toughness as a bonus feat, if it already had this feat its effects are doubled.
- Special Qualities: An elite creature gains the following special qualities.
-- Bloodied (Ex)
An elite creature is considered bloodied when its hit points reach half their starting value, when this happens its other special abilities become more powerful.
An elite creature stays bloodied until death or being fully healed.
-- Multiple actions (Ex)
When bloodied an elite creature gets two turns each round, one on its initiative count and another on its initiative count divided by 2. For example, if the monster’s initiative is 23, on its first turn it could make a full attack (and take a 5-foot step) at initiative 23, and on its second turn at initiative 11 it could take a move action and cast a spell. This allows the monster to perform two actions per round that normally take an entire round, such as using a summon monster spell. For the purposes of spells and effects that have a duration of a round or longer or trigger at the beginning of the elite creature’s round or the start of its turn (such as saving throws against ongoing effects or taking bleed damage), only the monster’s first turn each round counts toward such durations.
-- Improved saves (Su)
An elite creature can reroll one failed save each turn, in addition if the elite creature is under an ongoing spell effect she can attempt a new save against the initial DC for that spell effect every round as a standard action.
When bloodied an elite creature can instead reroll any failed save and can still try to break free of a spell effect as noted above.
Uhhhh, this sounds way more complicated now than it was earlier. Also, this is now just two full turns as far as I can read. It looks exactly like Dual Initiative, which is a mythic ability.
Yes I thought that if the correct wording existed i had no reason to reinvent the wheel.
The fact that it is mythic does not change anything afaik (but i could make the templates mythic) mythic CRs are not more powerful than norma CRs :D.Here is a revised version that I split between a lesser version and a more powerful one:
Elite (CR +1)
Creatures with the elite template are more resistant and more powerful than their ordinary cousins.
- Challenge Rating: +1.
- Hit Dice: The creature's hit points are increased by 50%.
- Special Qualities: An elite creature gains the following special qualities.
Bloodied (Ex)
An elite creature is considered bloodied when its hit points reach half their maximum, when this happens its other special abilities become more powerful.
An elite creature stays bloodied for the remainder of the encounter.
Multiple actions (Ex)
When bloodied, an elite creature gets an additional standard or move action each round. That standard action can't be used to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability and only one move action per turn can be used to actually move.
Improved saves (Su)
An elite creature can reroll one failed save each turn, in addition if the elite creature is bloodied and under an ongoing spell effect she can attempt a new save against the initial DC for that spell effect as a standard action.
Legendary (CR +2)
Creatures with the legendary template are the stuff of stories and legends, incredibly tough and powerful.
- Challenge Rating: +2.
- Hit Dice: The creature's hit points are doubled.
- Special Qualities: A legendary creature gains the following special qualities.
Bloodied (Ex)
A legendary creature is considered bloodied when its hit points reach half their maximum, when this happens its other special abilities become more powerful.
A legendary creature stays bloodied for the remainder of the encounter.
Multiple actions (Ex)
When bloodied, a legendary creature gets two turns each round, one on its initiative count and another on its initiative count divided by 2.
For example, if the monster’s initiative is 23, on its first turn it could make a full attack (and take a 5-foot step) at initiative 23, and on its second turn at initiative 11 it could take a move action and cast a spell. This allows the monster to perform two actions per round that normally take an entire round, such as using a summon monster spell. For the purposes of spells and effects that have a duration of a round or longer or trigger at the beginning of the legendary creature’s round or the start of its turn (such as saving throws against ongoing effects or taking bleed damage), only the monster’s first turn each round counts toward such durations.
Improved saves (Su)
A legendary creature can reroll one failed save each turn, in addition if the legendary creature is under an ongoing spell effect she can attempt a new save against the initial DC for that spell effect once a round as a standard action.
When bloodied a legendary creature can instead reroll any failed save and can still try to break free of a spell effect as noted above.
So this Template... really it's unnecessary
You could say that about half of what Paizo has put out!