Complete Pathfinder newbie here (though I have experience from D&D and other systems). I just received Player Core for a recent birthday and am looking up details to roll a first character. No table yet, but wanted one or two PCs on hand in case I can find an online or pick-up game.
I like magical characters with crowd control and lots of utility. I don't need to have huge DPS, so long as I'm not a liability to my team. Overall "coolness" is more important to me. Storywise, I tend to like natural outdoorsy characters. Mechanically, I like characters with lots of per-encounter or at-will abilities that I can just do rather than having to ration out over the course of a day.
Druid and Kineticist both immediately caught my eye. Untamed Druid would let me shapeshift per battle using the Focus spell, plus having movement and sensory abilities on hand whenever I'd need them. Build looks fairly straightforward, unless I'm missing something, as there's a new Shape feat at nearly every level. Nomming on people sounds cool, especially once you can turn into dragons and dinosaurs, and there's still spells for utility. Probably thinking Dwarf here.
Kineticist seems awesome as well. I especially am drawn to the crazy utility of Air. Even their weaker options involve planet-wide communication, turning into gas to slip through cracks, or flinging people 135 feet away on a whim. I like the free movement and forced movement. I like rouge-like characters, especially if they're not tied to the standard criminal themes. More "tricky" than "thiefy". Human would give me an extra Impulse plus, maybe more importantly, Clever Improviser that'll help with their poor skills issue.
My thoughts there would be how to plan this type of character out in advance. There seems to be plenty of low-level feats I'm interested in, but I'm also drawn to the resistances/immunity and aura benefits. Plus, for a utility caster, I'd need more elements if I'm going to get the most out of something like Base Kinesis. (That seems opposite of what I'm reading online, where it seems more common to pick your favorite element and then poach the utility features from Air.)
Water seems the most thematically compatible, though everything is Overflow which would stop stances and auras and ongoing abilities. Metal/Wood are more tanky than I'd imagine someone so light and mobile. Fire fixes Air's low DPS, but kinda forces you into multiple junctions to improve the damage. Earth has some cool abilities like Swim Through Earth and Igneokinesis. At the same time, this seems opposite of Air flavor and I'd be picking odd things like Tremorsense over the Armor in Earth and Tremors that Earth does best.
Two questions here:
1) Any recommendations of which character I should try first, once I get a chance to play?
2) If I go with the Kineticist, any specific Junctions or Impulses that'd be ideal for someone who wants to play (mostly) as an Air Kineticist, only with an extra gate or two to expand their portfolio?
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My 2 cents :
Druid is a full caster. Primal is an awesome list. Untamed Druid will be a secondary combattant usually.
Kineticist really needs fine-tuning the choice of Elements when you first play the class. Negotiate with the GM to be able to rebuild your PC a few times at first level so that you can find the combination that best fits your playstyle.
I am playing a Wood/Fire Kineticist in PFS and I took liberal advantage of the free rebuilds anytime before level 2 rule, trying various Wood/x before settling on my final build.
My 2 cents too:
I like magical characters with crowd control and lots of utility. I don't need to have huge DPS, so long as I'm not a liability to my team. Overall "coolness" is more important to me. Storywise, I tend to like natural outdoorsy characters. Mechanically, I like characters with lots of per-encounter or at-will abilities that I can just do rather than having to ration out over the course of a day.
Druid and Kineticist both immediately caught my eye. Untamed Druid would let me shapeshift per battle using the Focus spell, plus having movement and sensory abilities on hand whenever I'd need them. Build looks fairly straightforward, unless I'm missing something, as there's a new Shape feat at nearly every level. Nomming on people sounds cool, especially once you can turn into dragons and dinosaurs, and there's still spells for utility. Probably thinking Dwarf here.
Druid is not bad but I don't see druids as the one of the best examples of "crowd control and lots of utility" because Primal tradition have some utilities (any tradition have some utility spells) but is more focused into raw energy dmg DPS and healing than in utility and crowd control spells. Instead if you want some utility and crowd control and many per encounter rechargeable spell you should consider Psychic and even Oracles too once their traditions is more focused in utility and control than the primal tradition.
About shapeshift (Battle Forms) notice that they are nor good or bad. PF2 Battle Forms was developed to not overshadow the pure martials so they are bit more weak and fewer action/activity resources than martials but have their own versatility specially elemental and dragon forms that allows you to get fly, some element/damage types, resistances and adds an energy damage type to your attacks. Yet it prevents you to cast while you are in the form so you need no choose wisely when enter and when out from your Battle Forms.
Many power players people dislike the battle forms exactly due these reasons, because you won't be so good as a true martial at same time it prevents you from casting and demands some actions to enter and exit from the form.
Kineticist seems awesome as well. I especially am drawn to the crazy utility of Air. Even their weaker options involve planet-wide communication, turning into gas to slip through cracks, or flinging people 135 feet away on a whim. I like the free movement and forced movement. I like rouge-like characters, especially if they're not tied to the standard criminal themes. More "tricky" than "thiefy". Human would give me an extra Impulse plus, maybe more importantly, Clever Improviser that'll help with their poor skills issue.
My thoughts there would be how to plan this type of character out in advance. There seems to be plenty of low-level feats I'm interested in, but I'm also drawn to the resistances/immunity and aura benefits. Plus, for a utility caster, I'd need more elements if I'm going to get the most out of something like Base Kinesis. (That seems opposite of what I'm reading online, where it seems more common to pick your favorite element and then poach the utility features from Air.)
Water seems the most thematically compatible, though everything is Overflow which would stop stances and auras and ongoing abilities. Metal/Wood are more tanky than I'd imagine someone so light and mobile. Fire fixes Air's low DPS, but kinda forces you into multiple junctions to improve the damage. Earth has some cool abilities like Swim Through Earth and Igneokinesis. At the same time, this seems opposite of Air flavor and I'd be picking odd things like Tremorsense over the Armor in Earth and Tremors that Earth does best.
Kineticists are pretty good option. The air ones are more focused into utilities and mobility while keep a good range and even a good damage (the combination o Aerial Boomerang and Desert Wind is pretty efficient) but as you notice the real crowd control is water that allows to easily move your allies and enemies while creates difficult terrain for them.
Don't worry too much about overflow abilities once that Channel Elements allows you to use blasts or activate instances again in a one-action and most overflow abilities was developed considering that you will loose your aura that's why they are stronger IMO.You also can get both air + water in order to use the air impulses for utility and water impulse for CC.
Two questions here:
1) Any recommendations of which character I should try first, once I get a chance to play?
2) If I go with the Kineticist, any specific Junctions or Impulses that'd be ideal for someone who wants to play (mostly) as an Air Kineticist, only with an extra gate or two to expand their portfolio?
1) Based in the 2 option that you place I recommend the kineticists. It's not because the casters are bad but they shine way more when you are experienced in PF2 mechanics and rules. Casters in general are complicated characters with a lot of options of spells that really shines when used in the right situation. IMO usually players more experienced in PF2 have a better gameplay experience with casters than new players.
2) Unless for thematic reasons just don't go with single element kineticists from 1-20. You may start with a single element in level 1 to get more initial impulses of the same element and to get the Impulse Junction but IMO no element have too good a complete set of junctions to justify not take many good impulses from other elements specially because many elements impulses completes the weak points of other elements. For air elements I recommend to take earth to improve your AC defense with Armored in Earth and to get some additional damage with Desert Wings but you can also take any other elements to get other benefits too like fire to improve your dmg output, water to get winter sleet and healing, wood to get a good balance between healing and protection and so on. I just don't recommend to play as single element in mid to high levels the other element that you will get will depend of how do you want to play.
I've got 4 cents now. Awesome! :D
Many power players people dislike the battle forms exactly due these reasons, because you won't be so good as a true martial at same time it prevents you from casting and demands some actions to enter and exit from the form.
It's easy to say now, I'm sure. But overall, I don't really mind being less-than-optimal when it comes to DPS. So long as it doesn't gimp the entire team. There's something thematically cool about screeching through the sky as a Phoenix or biting someone's head off as a T-Rex that you don't get when swinging a sword more rapidly than your average dude.
if you want some utility and crowd control and many per encounter rechargeable spell you should consider Psychic
Psychic sounds like a lot of fun. Mind control is a fun theme to play with, when games allow you to do this well. How would you say a Psychic stacks up against a Kineticist overall?
Unless for thematic reasons just don't go with single element kineticists from 1-20.
I wouldn't want to go 100% single element. But so far, my temptation would be to dip heavily into Air and add in bits of the others where there's either a dead Air level or a worthwhile "must have" Impulse elsewhere. But to get all of the needed Junctions and Impulses, I'd have to plan out what elements to take and in what order.
Don't worry too much about overflow abilities once that Channel Elements allows you to use blasts or activate instances again in a one-action and most overflow abilities was developed considering that you will loose your aura that's why they are stronger IMO. You also can get both air + water in order to use the air impulses for utility and water impulse for CC.
When I first read the class, Air/Water is what got me the most excited. It wasn't until I noticed that almost everything Water does is Overflow that I started having concerns.
At a glance, knowing my preferred play style, it seems like I'd rather keep my aura up and keep getting passive benefits rather than cashing it all in for one extra-strong blast. Does dropping your aura often get in the way when you're focusing mostly on Air abilities?
Also, if you have a Fighter in the party, water's "move an opponent 5' on a successful attack" effect might combo quite well with their AoO. So even if your damage is nothing to write home about, "your damage + martial AoO every time you hit" might be.
Only push and pull effects can trigger an AoO, other forced movement does not. While water does have three impulses that include push a possible outcome, the water junction 5' move is not one of them.
At a glance, knowing my preferred play style, it seems like I'd rather keep my aura up and keep getting passive benefits rather than cashing it all in for one extra-strong blast. Does dropping your aura often get in the way when you're focusing mostly on Air abilities?
Dropping your aura only really matters if you've taken aura junctions or an aura stance. If you haven't invested in either of those, then the overflow/channel setup works just fine.
Water's Aura Junction is niche. Air's Aura Junction can be replaced with a small stack of relatively low-level wands. As far as stances... I see a couple that I'd be interested in, but one of them (available at level 4) becomes less useful over time, and the other isn't available until level 18, and is competing for your hotly contested level 18 and 20 slots.
Now... if you *want* to play a aura-based kineticist, that's cool, but you're going to want to think about which auras you want specifically, and what that means about the elements you need to use and the playstyle that's likely to result... especially since for the first half of your career, your aura isn't going to cover a particularly large area. If you want your auras to really matter, you're probably going to have to get in close and stay there.
Worth noting that the kineticist in particular is a place where you can get any of a number of shiny things... but you can't get *all* the things. If you want two elements, and you want the impulse junction for both of them, then you're going to be level 13 before you can get any other kind of junction. Stuff like that.
Only push and pull effects can trigger an AoO, other forced movement does not. While water does have three impulses that include push a possible outcome, the water junction 5' move is not one of them.
It does potentially allow you to move enemies into AOO range of the fighter, though.
You're right, I was misremembering the hazardous terrain use of push/pull, which came up in the early Kineticist discussions because of the fire, wood, and metal hazardous terrain impulses.
I note that one thing it can be useful for is getting people into fireball formation, but given that pretty much all of the kineticist area effect abilities *and* all of the kineticist forced move abilities are two or more actions, that would have to be in service to someone else's fireball.
Similarly, kineticists can be pretty good at both laying down damaging terrain and pushing people into it, but trying to shuffle things around so that the same kineticist is pulling off both roles can get tricky.