Giant instinct barbarian weapon question


Rules Discussion


Hi our GM is new to pathfinder 2e. One of the players are playing a Giant Instinct Barbarian and we need someone to weigh in on a rules question.

The question is: Does a giant instinct Barbarian get their bonuses from the large weapon they start with only or any large weapon? If he finds a large sized weapon later can he use it with all his instinct bonuses?

Liberty's Edge

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It's any weapon that is one size larger than your personal size, the GI rules have text stating that you are provided Access to a single one right out of the gate but you're in no way restricted to only using that specific Weapon or others of the same type later on.

If you choose a Large Glaive at level 1 and then find a Large Quarterstaff you could use either of them, you're not restricted by the choice you made to get Access at level one with regard to using your abilities.


Yup. It may be challenging to find a place to buy weapons of that size, but you are not restricted to any particular one. If you get your hands on a second Giant Instinct sized weapon, you can use it.

With the change to crafting rules and formula, you may be able to craft or commission an NPC to craft an appropriate sized new weapon.

Liberty's Edge

Finoan wrote:

Yup. It may be challenging to find a place to buy weapons of that size, but you are not restricted to any particular one. If you get your hands on a second Giant Instinct sized weapon, you can use it.

With the change to crafting rules and formula, you may be able to craft or commission an NPC to craft an appropriate sized new weapon.

How does the size changing impacts the rarity ?


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The Raven Black wrote:
How does the size changing impacts the rarity ?

For narrative reasons.

Also, can you find a stat block for one of those oversized weapons? What rarity do they have?

I'm not saying that all GMs or campaigns are going to have the weapons hard to find. But it is possible.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There is no rarity tied to size. You could choose, as a GM, to make them Uncommon or Rare, but that is not a default rule. (The Giant Instinct granting Access to one guarantees they can still get the one they need for their instinct ability to function even in those cases).

The adjustments for large size aren't in stat block form in the books, but only include Bulk and Price changing.

Liberty's Edge

The Raven Black wrote:
How does the size changing impacts the rarity ?

Ya ever have a hard time shopping for clothes or shoes? Imagine that except at 2-3x the scale and in a society where resource scarcity and commercial availability isn't greased by the wheels of an industrial and capitalist revolution that's well over 200 years old.

I have a hard time finding shoes AND slacks that fit me right, I couldn't imagine how hard it would be if I had a size 90+ waist or size 25 shoe.


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Themetricsystem wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
How does the size changing impacts the rarity ?

Ya ever have a hard time shopping for clothes or shoes? Imagine that except at 2-3x the scale and in a society where resource scarcity and commercial availability isn't greased by the wheels of an industrial and capitalist revolution that's well over 200 years old.

I have a hard time finding shoes AND slacks that fit me right, I couldn't imagine how hard it would be if I had a size 90+ waist or size 25 shoe.

IMO best not to try and RL-approximate it here. True, Golarion has smaller population towns and lacks a lot of industry. But they have magical crafting, often "action movie" time frames for downtime activities, and sentient tool-wielding humanoids of sizes ranging from tiny to huge. So 'what size stuff is available' is not comparable to how the availability of big & tall stores in a western city.

I would make this a table decision rather than a simulationist decision. The answer is what works best for your table, your campaign, your game. Not how easy it would be to buy an oversized axe in 21st century Kansas.

Personally, I really can't see any reason to punish Bar characters by making such stuff uncommon, so my personal 'table' decision would be common. But YMMV.


HammerJack wrote:

There is no rarity tied to size. You could choose, as a GM, to make them Uncommon or Rare, but that is not a default rule. (The Giant Instinct granting Access to one guarantees they can still get the one they need for their instinct ability to function even in those cases).

The adjustments for large size aren't in stat block form in the books, but only include Bulk and Price changing.

Well, "gain access" typically means that the item is uncommon or rare to begin with.

Titan Mauler (Instinct Ability) wrote:
You gain access to this larger weapon, which can be of any weapon type otherwise available at character creation.

And being "otherwise available" means that the oversized weapons are normally not available at character creation.

Again, I am not saying that the rules are clearly written one way or the other. Just that there are valid reasons and arguments for both sides - both narratively and in the rules. So expect table variation.


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Confirming the answer to the OP: a giant instinct barbarian gets access to Titan Mayker extra damage with any large weapon.

The bit I find ambiguous is whether the giant instinct barbarian has access to purchase new large sized weapon. The rules feel vague to me, and logically I wouldn't expect small/medium settlements to stock a robust selection of weapons for giants. I'd definitely allow it to be made to order, however.

Beyond the giant instinct barbarian, the question of whether large sized weapons are common, uncommon, or rare is an academic one, as using oversized weapons is strictly a debuff to any other PC.


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FWIW, if you're a blacksmith making a very large polearm or a very large axe is not going to require a lot more work than making a regular size one- since most of the extra material is just the haft.

So you should let your players just buy large weapons during downtime if there's someone around who can make blades.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

FWIW, if you're a blacksmith making a very large polearm or a very large axe is not going to require a lot more work than making a regular size one- since most of the extra material is just the haft.

So you should let your players just buy large weapons during downtime if there's someone around who can make blades.

Yeah, I wanted to say this too.

Like a large sized halberd would be mostly about the longer haft, the metal cutty bit at the end is honestly probably the same size.

The other thing we're talking about here is that players characters are only looking for large sized weapons typically (at the worst case). It is just as likely that you have a small sized character looking to use a medium weapon.

And since you're not going to penalize the whole party by making medium sized weapons difficult to acquire, you probably shouldn't make large size weapons too difficult to acquire. Like sure, they have to put in an order and wait a few days, same as anyone else who is ordering a weapon that isn't ready and waiting. They pay a bit more and that's pretty much it.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Quote:
The other thing we're talking about here is that players characters are only looking for large sized weapons typically (at the worst case). It is just as likely that you have a small sized character looking to use a medium weapon.

This part is wrong. Both Small and Medium characters use the same weapons normally. Both small and medium characters use Large weapons for giant instinct.

Quote:
You can use a weapon built for a Large creature if you are Small or Medium (both normally and when raging). If you're not Small or Medium, you can use a weapon built for a creature one size larger than you. You gain access to this larger weapon, which can be of any weapon type otherwise available at character creation. It has the normal Price and Bulk for a weapon of its size. When wielding such a weapon in combat, increase your additional damage from Rage from 2 to 6, but you have the clumsy 1 condition because of the weapon's unwieldy size. You can't remove this clumsy condition or ignore its penalties by any means while wielding the weapon.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So halfling giant instinct barbarians are much more impressive then most


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Bluemagetim wrote:
So halfling giant instinct barbarians are much more impressive then most

My first PF2 playtest character was a gnome giant barbarian who carried a polearm the size of a tree.


HammerJack wrote:
Quote:
The other thing we're talking about here is that players characters are only looking for large sized weapons typically (at the worst case). It is just as likely that you have a small sized character looking to use a medium weapon.

This part is wrong. Both Small and Medium characters use the same weapons normally. Both small and medium characters use Large weapons for giant instinct.

Quote:
You can use a weapon built for a Large creature if you are Small or Medium (both normally and when raging). If you're not Small or Medium, you can use a weapon built for a creature one size larger than you. You gain access to this larger weapon, which can be of any weapon type otherwise available at character creation. It has the normal Price and Bulk for a weapon of its size. When wielding such a weapon in combat, increase your additional damage from Rage from 2 to 6, but you have the clumsy 1 condition because of the weapon's unwieldy size. You can't remove this clumsy condition or ignore its penalties by any means while wielding the weapon.

I guess I remember it wrong, but that honestly makes no sense thematically.

In the same way that divorcing damage die size from weapon size doesn't really make sense, but I get why they did it for game balance reasons.

I can't think of a reason to insist that small sized giant instinct barbarians should use large sized weapons, except to penalize them as much as medium sized instinct barbarians are penalized (which will vary a lot depending on the game).


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Halflings that aren't Giant Instinct Barbarians can wield Medium weapons normally. So it would feel pretty thematically weird if halfling giant barbs had a special ability related to wielding medium weapons that caused them to become clumsy and deal more damage.

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