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Hello, I just wanted to say that today I received the remastered Player Core and GM Core Pathfinder books. I will be browsing through them, then diving in for a more in depth read. I had been on the fence for quite some time about ending my relations with D&D and WOTC and moving on to Pathfinder. If the books meet my expectations and needs, I plan to fully endorse and play the game system. My initial browse of the GM Core indicates that a lot is different, most certainly better in most cases. I'll learn more as I go along.
I am the creator of Darknoth Chronicles, a fantasy game world I began long ago. I have commissioned a professional map maker to design the world and three continent maps. As the maps are nearing completion, I am busy working on the manuscripts for the world related books. Once complete I hope to publish them using the available Paizo licensing. So here is hoping to meet new people, make a few friends, and have a successful journey along the way!
Welcome to the Paizo forums, CDC!
Let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to help.
Welcome to the Paizo forums, CDC!
Let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to help.
Thank you Ravindork, as I am not new to roleplaying games but am just beginning to learn the Pathfinder rules, I know I will have many rule questions to ask as I glean over the books.
I am looking forward to the monster book coming out in March, and hope that it is not overly divergent from the basics of what D&D has offered over the past 50 years. I have heard rumors that the owlbear is no more. I am concerned about dragons in particular, as a significant part of my world is dragon based. Hopefully, when the time comes, I will not have to make significant changes to my documents and world history.
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Welcome to the Paizo forums, CDC!
Let us know if you have any questions. We're happy to help.
Thank you Ravindork, as I am not new to roleplaying games but am just beginning to learn the Pathfinder rules, I know I will have many rule questions to ask as I glean over the books.
I am looking forward to the monster book coming out in March, and hope that it is not overly divergent from the basics of what D&D has offered over the past 50 years. I have heard rumors that the owlbear is no more. I am concerned about dragons in particular, as a significant part of my world is dragon based. Hopefully, when the time comes, I will not have to make significant changes to my documents and world history.
Welcome and a very happy and fruitful new year.
Chromatic and Metallic dragons, the dragon families most iconic to DnD, had to be left out of Remastered PF2.
To kind of fill the gap, Remaster will introduce new dragon types specific to PF2 and based on the 4 Traditions of Magic (Arcane Tradition = magic of the Wizard, Primal Tradition = magic of the Druid, Divine Tradition = magic of the Cleric, Occult Tradition = magic of the Bard).
Chromatic and Metallic dragons, the dragon families most iconic to DnD, had to be left out of Remastered PF2.
To kind of fill the gap, Remaster will introduce new dragon types specific to PF2 and based on the 4 Traditions of Magic (Arcane Tradition = magic of the Wizard, Primal Tradition = magic of the Druid, Divine Tradition = magic of the Cleric, Occult Tradition = magic of the Bard).
Can anyone elaborate on these types of dragons?
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Hello! PF2 is a great game, that is very easy to mod and add your own content to, I think you will find it a lot of fun.
If your interest is primarily in a rule set that you can freely publish your own content under, I think you will be very pleased with the ORC license. You should do what feels right to you, but following Paizo’s lead on dropping certain proprietary monsters, including the old distinctions of dragons might be a good idea if you don’t want to hire your own IP lawyers to make sure you don’t become the target of the wrathful eye of coastal magicians. Again, you do what you feel is right, but Paizo made its choices carefully and with a lot of smart and ethical deliberation.
Hello! PF2 is a great game, that is very easy to mod and add your own content to, I think you will find it a lot of fun.
If your interest is primarily in a rule set that you can freely publish your own content under, I think you will be very pleased with the ORC license. You should do what feels right to you, but following Paizo’s lead on dropping certain proprietary monsters, including the old distinctions of dragons might be a good idea if you don’t want to hire your own IP lawyers to make sure you don’t become the target of the wrathful eye of coastal magicians. Again, you do what you feel is right, but Paizo made its choices carefully and with a lot of smart and ethical deliberation.
Thank you, I have no problem dropping WOTC IP related things like chromatic and metallic dragons. I'm just trying to find out what the Pathfinder versions of dragons are all about so I can modify my world lore accordingly. I'm assuming at this point that the Paizo dragon content is legally useable. If not, it is best for me to know now so I can rethink how the dragons are going to work in my world as they are such an intricate part of the world history.
Can anyone elaborate on these types of dragons?Search 'pathfinder dragons most diabolical' for a pic and the official announcement from April 2023.
Some less official info I pulled from reddit (so...this could be wrong). There will be at least eight types. They are:
Arcane: fortune (force), mirage (mental)
Divine: diabolic (fire), empyreal (spirit)
Occult: conspirator (poison), omen (mental)
Primal: adamantine (bludgeon), horned (poison)
Thank you, categories like that may be easy to work with in my world.
Here you go:
Remaster Previews: Dragons Most Diabolical
Thanks Guys, that was most helpful. I read the part on diabolical dragons and that appears very compatible with the world lore I already have. Do we have information on the other spell casting categories of dragons?
Do we have any information on good versus evil in regards to dragons? I read somewhere that Pathfinder remastered did away with the alignment system and I haven't gotten far enough in my reading to find out how good versus evil works in the game for characters and monsters.
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Also, an important thing to keep in mind is that the devs have specifically said that chromatics & metallics aren't going the way of the drow and definitely still exist in setting, it'll take them a bit longer to figure out how to use them properly and in the mean time if they ever need the statblock for one of them for an Adventure, they'll just include a unique one for that specific individual. As well as that, a lot of options themed around dragons will be now more geared towards the new dragon types instead of the metallics/chromatics.
Also, an important thing to keep in mind is that the devs have specifically said that chromatics & metallics aren't going the way of the drow and definitely still exist in setting, it'll take them a bit longer to figure out how to use them properly and in the mean time if they ever need the statblock for one of them for an Adventure, they'll just include a unique one for that specific individual. As well as that, a lot of options themed around dragons will be now more geared towards the new dragon types instead of the metallics/chromatics.
So your saying that Paizo plans on keeping the terms metallic and chromatic. Are you thinking they most likely will be divided into good versus evil dragons?
Oh! And also: Outside some minor stuff with you probably having to replace Law/Chaos damage with Spirit damage, Good damage with Holy Spirit damage, Evil damage with Unholy Spirit damage (stuff that will realistically only matter on your celestials / fiends); and some other name changes to things (like positive / negative energy becoming vitality / void), pretty much all the pre-remaster statblocks should still be entirely fine to use under the current rules. The changes really weren't system shaking enough to invalidate the old stuff (this especially matters for your dragon case, as you can still have access to your metallic, chromatic, imperial, and primal dragon family statblocks which have all been converted to PF2 already).
As for how good vs evil works now, there's kind of two things which have replaced it in the system: Edicts & Anathema, and Sanctification.
Edicts & Anathema are pretty much an entirely play-facing thing without much mechanical basis outside what already existed in the system with a couple classes such as Cleric (Which if they broke their anathema lost their powers), with the job of filling Alignment's roll of "Describing what your character's morality is". Edicts are things which your character tries to do whenever possible, whilst Anathema describes things your character will try to avoid doing whenever possible
The other system which replaces alignment is actually new, and is Sanctification. This fulfills the mechanical space which Alignment and
Alignment Damage previously took up, and are themed as "Picking a side between the cosmic battle of good & evil". Pretty much, some characters and monsters are holy/unholy (most are just neither). Some things have the Sanctification trait, meaning if you are holy/unholy, that effect will also be so. Things like fiends then will have a weakness to holy effects.
Finally, with pre-existing dragons (So your metallics, chromatics, imperial, primal, ect.) the morality of them hasn't changed with the removal of mechanical alignment, but with the new ones we don't really know tons about them. Pretty much just know the Diabolical and Mirage ones, the prior you already have supposedly read on and the latter I am linking below:
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6siax?Remaster-Preview-Oh-my-It-s- a-mirage
Also, an important thing to keep in mind is that the devs have specifically said that chromatics & metallics aren't going the way of the drow and definitely still exist in setting, it'll take them a bit longer to figure out how to use them properly and in the mean time if they ever need the statblock for one of them for an Adventure, they'll just include a unique one for that specific individual. As well as that, a lot of options themed around dragons will be now more geared towards the new dragon types instead of the metallics/chromatics.So your saying that Paizo plans on keeping the terms metallic and chromatic. Are you thinking they most likely will be divided into good versus evil dragons?
What I mean by that is these new dragon types are just new dragon types that aren't replacing anything, and the pre-existing red, blue, green, gold, silver, brass, ect. dragons will still exist, and whilst I imagine some changes will occur to them as to make them legally fit better (like I wouldn't be suprised if when they do get around to being remastered, they get some new names for the types instead of just the colours), I doubt they're going to have their morality entirely flipped on its head , probably just having maybe a tad more nuance thrown in. We don't really know for sure until that future date where the devs go and transfer them over to the remaster.
I have no idea if the specific terms "Chromatic Dragons" and "Metallic Dragons" are staying, just know that the dragon types which those terms are referring to is.
LOL, like the drow or the owlbear, I'd be surprised if chromatic and metallic dragons are ever mentioned again in content published under the ORC license. They might reference existing dragons by name (such as Black Fang, Kazavon, or Sicnavier), but they certainly won't be calling them by their traditional types (such as chromatic red or metallic gold) or introducing new dragons of said types. They might also refer to them in plain English, such as "the red-scaled dragon" I suppose.
It's true that they're not going anywhere and can still be used in home games, but they've effectively been phased out for any practical purposes of any future content moving forward.
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I wouldn't expect to see many creatures inherently set on the side of good or evil going forward, other than extraplanar beings.
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So far what you all have told me, things should work well without me having to literally rethink and do a major rewrite on the world history and lore, which is exactly what I was hoping for.
Now I haven't had the opportunity to read up on the Pathfinder character classes but I did a comparison to 5th edition D&D and saw that there was no barbarian. Does the character class system of Pathfinder provide ways to create a more primitive fighter type. My wife needs to know...She plays a barbarian.
So your saying that Paizo plans on keeping the terms metallic and chromatic. Are you thinking they most likely will be divided into good versus evil dragons?
Sort-of. And no.
A Red Dragon stat block still exists. There is nothing wrong with using them in your own games with your friends. The future published APs may not be using them though.
As for Good and Evil, Sanctification has taken its place - but only for super-good and super-evil. There are still good guys and bad guys that aren't Sanctified to Holy or Unholy. And it could be possible (probably with Skeleton Ancestry or something like that) to be both Sanctified Unholy and be a good guy (neutral or good alignment).
If you are wanting more clear cut lines for who players are allowed to kill on sight with no social repercussions, then you probably want to houserule back in the alignment system. One of the other things that I have heard - possibly even from that blog post linked earlier - is that the dragons are going to have varied morality just like all of the other creatures in the setting.
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Now I haven't had the opportunity to read up on the Pathfinder character classes but I did a comparison to 5th edition D&D and saw that there was no barbarian. Does the character class system of Pathfinder provide ways to create a more primitive fighter type. My wife needs to know...She plays a barbarian.
Barbarian is moving to Player Core 2 coming out later in the year.
There are a couple of other classes in the CRB that are moving similarly. Sorcerer and Alchemist come to mind immediately. There may be another that I am not thinking of.
Now I haven't had the opportunity to read up on the Pathfinder character classes but I did a comparison to 5th edition D&D and saw that there was no barbarian. Does the character class system of Pathfinder provide ways to create a more primitive fighter type. My wife needs to know...She plays a barbarian.Barbarian is moving to Player Core 2 coming out later in the year.
There are a couple of other classes in the CRB that are moving similarly. Sorcerer and Alchemist come to mind immediately. There may be another that I am not thinking of.
Thank you Finoan, my wife will be happy to hear that and its slightly less rewriting for me.
So your saying that Paizo plans on keeping the terms metallic and chromatic. Are you thinking they most likely will be divided into good versus evil dragons?Sort-of. And no.
A Red Dragon stat block still exists. There is nothing wrong with using them in your own games with your friends. The future published APs may not be using them though.
As for Good and Evil, Sanctification has taken its place - but only for super-good and super-evil. There are still good guys and bad guys that aren't Sanctified to Holy or Unholy. And it could be possible (probably with Skeleton Ancestry or something like that) to be both Sanctified Unholy and be a good guy (neutral or good alignment).
If you are wanting more clear cut lines for who players are allowed to kill on sight with no social repercussions, then you probably want to houserule back in the alignment system. One of the other things that I have heard - possibly even from that blog post linked earlier - is that the dragons are going to have varied morality just like all of the other creatures in the setting.
I'm not in need of a clear-cut alignment system, I understand its a different game and have accepted that easily enough. I'm just trying to get ahead of the learning curve I am faced with and changes to the game world that will be necessary.
Next Question I have is are there any type of humanoid dragon-sort of monsters that could easily replace the dragonborn. I don't need them for use by player characters but they are the working population and primarily source of military soldiers for the draconic empire. In my world history they are focal to winning what essentially was a world war in my world.
Is there any such creature? Or will I have to create my own?
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As others have said, Archives of Nethys has all the rules for pretty much everything on there, and all of that is compatible with post-remaster stuff (At a good enough level that Organised Play lets you use stuff from both), which includes a lot of the stuff that you might be expecting to be in the Player Core (as they decided to more evenly split the content between Player Core 1 & 2, instead of like it was before with 12 classes in the Core Rulebook and 4 in the Advanced Player's Guide). Now, do keep in mind that the people who work on that site haven't yet updated everything to the post-remaster rules, but in the cases where that is different you can just check the Errata page's section on remaster compatibility (which admittedly just covers a couple of the books).
Next Question I have is are there any type of humanoid dragon-sort of monsters that could easily replace the dragonborn. I don't need them for use by player characters but they are the working population and primarily source of military soldiers for the draconic empire. In my world history they are focal to winning what essentially was a world war in my world.
Is there any such creature? Or will I have to create my own?
There isn't any direct dragonborn equivalent, but that said by just making kobolds medium, changing up the ability scores and reflavoring a couple of their feats themed around cowardice, you already are about 90% of the way there. A lot of their heritages & feats are themed around getting draconic abilities.
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Thank you Finoan, my wife will be happy to hear that and its slightly less rewriting for me.Barbarian is moving to Player Core 2 coming out later in the year.
There are a couple of other classes in the CRB that are moving similarly. Sorcerer and Alchemist come to mind immediately. There may be another that I am not thinking of.
Three things of note:
1. The Archives of Nethys has all the PF2E classes. In fact all the core rules. Obviously it doesn't have not-yet-published material such as the remastered Barbarian, but all of the non-remastered classes such as Barbarian are there, and they are perfectly playable as is. Honestly, the changes to that class will likely be very minor. So your wife doesn't have to wait; she can browse the Barbarian class right now.2. She/you/your group can also use the free Pathbuilder app (just google it) to create PF2E characters of any level. Some features are not available on the freebie system, but IMO the Pathfinder freeware is far superior in terms of ease of use to anything I ever saw in my (admittedly very limited) experience with 5e.
3. Your wife should know that the PF2E Barbarian is very offense-focused and not at all a defensive tank like the 5E one. If she's looking to maintain that defensive tank feel, Champion may be a better fit.
I second all of this.
The Barbarian is not in Player Core 1 because the ORC version of the Dragon Barbarian Instinct has to be based on the new Paizo Dragons which have not yet been released. Same for the Sorcerer and its Draconic Bloodline.
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That seems counter to what the devs have actually said. At most they will get some small changes and new names unless something major has changes with Paizos approachLOL, like the drow or the owlbear, I'd be surprised if chromatic and metallic dragons are ever mentioned again in content published under the ORC license. They might reference existing dragons by name (such as Black Fang, Kazavon, or Sicnavier), but they certainly won't be calling them by their traditional types (such as chromatic red or metallic gold) or introducing new dragons of said types. They might also refer to them in plain English, such as "the red-scaled dragon" I suppose.
It's true that they're not going anywhere and can still be used in home games, but they've effectively been phased out for any practical purposes of any future content moving forward.
IIRC Paizo really wants to be able to bring the traditional DnD dragons back to PF2 but it will inevitably need time and efforts to do it without incurring wizardly wrath.
In the meantime instead of such printed PF NPC being an Evil Red dragon who breathes fire, it is an evil fire-breathing dragon who happens to have red scales.
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As for Good and Evil, Sanctification has taken its place - but only for super-good and super-evil. There are still good guys and bad guys that aren't Sanctified to Holy or Unholy. And it could be possible (probably with Skeleton Ancestry or something like that) to be both Sanctified Unholy and be a good guy (neutral or good alignment).
Just a note that IIRC being Sanctified to Holy means you pledge yourself to good behaviour. And likewise Sanctified to Unholy and evil behaviour.
Now, I hope we can have good characters (but maybe not Holy) using Unholy abilities/weapons and vice versa.
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It's already been answered above pretty well and I'd suggest if you're trying to work in a homebrew/setting-appropriate way to handle it while sticking to the PF2 chassis that you start hammering out a Medium sized Kobold Heritage that ditches much of the meek, cowardly, and sneaky stuff in favor of athletic, confident and likely paranoid descriptions instead. That and tweaks to how you describe their biology and you'll be right off to the races for a Dragonborn replacement/stand-in that's mechanically balanced with the rest of the Ancestries.
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The closest would be either the Iruxi (lizardfolk) or the Kobolds (some of their creation myths do have them descending from dragons) depending if you want the more burly, physical, lizard aspects of the dragons or the more "draconic" (breath weapons, wings, etc)Next Question I have is are there any type of humanoid dragon-sort of monsters that could easily replace the dragonborn. I don't need them for use by player characters but they are the working population and primarily source of military soldiers for the draconic empire. In my world history they are focal to winning what essentially was a world war in my world.
Is there any such creature? Or will I have to create my own?
Or both. Iruxi that can take Kobold Heritage and Ancestry feats.
Or both. Iruxi that can take Kobold Heritage and Ancestry feats.The closest would be either the Iruxi (lizardfolk) or the Kobolds (some of their creation myths do have them descending from dragons) depending if you want the more burly, physical, lizard aspects of the dragons or the more "draconic" (breath weapons, wings, etc)Next Question I have is are there any type of humanoid dragon-sort of monsters that could easily replace the dragonborn. I don't need them for use by player characters but they are the working population and primarily source of military soldiers for the draconic empire. In my world history they are focal to winning what essentially was a world war in my world.
Is there any such creature? Or will I have to create my own?
They can? News to me.
In general, I'd suggest reflavoring kobolds as a good starting point, potentially replacing the meeker seeming feats with things from burlier ancestries like iruxi or Nagaji.
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Or both. Iruxi that can take Kobold Heritage and Ancestry feats.They can? News to me.
No that isn't the standard.
That's what the houserule/adaptation suggestion is. A 5e Dragonborn could be cobbled together as an Iruxi that can get Kobold Heritage and Ancestry feats. As well as Iruxi ones.
Three things of note:
1. The Archives of Nethys has all the PF2E classes. In fact all the core rules. Obviously it doesn't have not-yet-published material such as the remastered Barbarian, but all of the non-remastered classes such as Barbarian are there, and they are perfectly playable as is. Honestly, the changes to that class will likely be very minor. So your wife doesn't have to wait; she can browse the Barbarian class right now.2. She/you/your group can also use the free Pathbuilder app (just google it) to create PF2E characters of any level. Some features are not available on the freebie system, but IMO the Pathfinder freeware is far superior in terms of ease of use to anything I ever saw in my (admittedly very limited) experience with 5e.
3. Your wife should know that the PF2E Barbarian is very offense-focused and not at all a defensive tank like the 5E one. If she's looking to maintain that defensive tank feel, Champion may be a better fit.
Thank you for letting me know where I can find these other character classes. I will let my wife know. What she likes about the barbarian isn't so much the offense or defense but rather the rustic primitive warrior feel.
Also I was unaware of the pathbuilder app, I will check it out, thank you.
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Sounds like several people favor a reskinning of the kobold. I'll check that out. I had started creating a monster called Dragon Scales to replace dragonborn but have no intention of making it available for as a PC. I have enough PC Races (ancestries) that I had developed while working under the D&D 5th edition rules set.
Right now I am going to concentrate on wrapping up the maps with the cartographer and redo several documents on my computer so they are more Pathfinder oriented instead of D&D, after that I will continue with moving forward with the book manuscripts.
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Oh, well if it isn't for a PC available ancestry, just use the lore from 5e Dragonborn if you want. If you do need to create stats for an NPC, you can use the Building Creatures rules to make them of whatever level you want - taking note of the Designing NPCs section if you are making them as villagers rather than combatants.
Basically, have the Dragonborn that you want with minimal stat minutia creation needed.
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Oh, well if it isn't for a PC available ancestry, just use the lore from 5e Dragonborn if you want. If you do need to create stats for an NPC, you can use the Building Creatures rules to make them of whatever level you want - taking note of the Designing NPCs section if you are making them as villagers rather than combatants.
Basically, have the Dragonborn that you want with minimal stat minutia creation needed.
I need to avoid copyright infringement as I eventually hope to publish, so I want to avoid WOTC material as much as possible. I appears that Paizo doesn't have a humanoid monster similiar to dragon people of any kind so I'll finish my own monster dragon people I already started, though reskinning a good monster certainly makes it easier to design the basic stats and making sure it's as balanced as possible.
Self-publishing is why I switched from D&D to Pathfinder. My understanding at this point is that most of the Pathfinder rules are legally useable, though I'm a little unsure exactly where the limitations lie.
One limitation I am wondering about is the name of the planes in Pathfinder. In the remastered book they are provided under the Age of Lost Omens chapter in the GM Core book. I am wondering if that makes the names of the planes off limits. Most of them date back to real-world mythology, such as astral, ethereal and Hell which is why I'm in question regarding the mention of them in my manuscripts. It would be nice to get a definitive answers. Anyone have a link for me to follow to check up on the legality of various content?
Yeah, if you are publishing your setting or adventures, then be sure to keep licensing in mind.
I was thinking this was just for a game among friends - where the rules and legalities are a lot looser.
Ah, if you're publishing a book then things are a tad more awkward with the remaster than if it was a just home game (or publishing under Pathfinder Infinite - though don't quote me on this), as you can't really easily mix ORC and OGL content (as the OGL has rules against additional licences).
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Ah, if you're publishing a book then things are a tad more awkward with the remaster than if it was a just home game (or publishing under Pathfinder Infinite - though don't quote me on this), as you can't really easily mix ORC and OGL content (as the OGL has rules against additional licenses).
I had no intention of mixing game license material. I just want to learn Pathfinders equivalents to certain things, so I know what needs to change in my manuscripts and game for 100% complete Pathfinder rule compliance. The less of my world history I have to change the better. I have read a huge portion of the Player Core and perused much of the GM Core to help the process move forwards.