More 3.5 related, but if there are mechanics or rules in pathfinder to draw from then that will/can absolutely help.
So, I'm realizing that you can harvest poison and spider silk from spider form because it's a polymorph.
Poison is easy enough, a bites worth released per round into some harvest vassel.
How much spider web though? How much can they release per round?
Also, are there any mechanics for how to process spider web into spidersilk?
Also, taking this a little futher, how could I go about cutting off one or two of my legs in a single round (meat and chiting) and would doing so cause me to lose any of my normal limbs?
The rules for Polymorph in Pathfinder are a lot different than those in 3.5. You don’t actually change into the creature you are mimicking and only gain the abilities specified in the description of the spell. If the creature has a lesser ability, you gain the lesser ability. Basically, you gain the worst of either the spell or the creature. This makes most polymorph spells from 3.5 useless because the description does not list abilities the spell grants, so you don’t gain much. About all is the natural attacks of the base creature.
Unless the spell description has a duration of permanent or instantaneous you change back to your original form when the duration expires. That includes parts that have been separated from you. So, none of the things you are looking to harvest remains except the damage you did to yourself by cutting off your legs. If the spell has a duration of permanent the change lasts indefinitely but can be dispelled. This is a function of the duration of the spell, not because it is a polymorph.
Like Mysterious Stranger said, the rules are a bit different. In 3.5, they had the wording 'Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.'
This kept people from harvesting organs or chopping off body parts (you also reverted to your normal form on death).
Opinion:
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I really liked that part, because it could be extrapolated to prevent things like harvesting poison or whether such individuals could breed with others, since a GM could say that certain fluids didn't remain potent either after leaving the host or it reverting back. (In 3.0 poisons typically only have a 1 minute existence for the most part, so it wasn't an issue.)
In Pathfinder, they left things very ambiguous and it can cause some problems. If you can create new life as a polymorphed creature, there would be almost no extinct races ever, since you could polymorph a creature into the extinct (assuming you knew enough about them) creature or a rare or threatened creature and either just breed new ones or harvest them. Only my opinion on whether that's a good or bad thing.
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1. 'Poison is easy enough, a bite's worth released per round into some harvest vessel.'
Not quite. While delivering venom normally is typically one attack, milking venom takes longer under the general rules (specific cases can be different). You can find them under Poisons and the rules for Milking Venom.
Basically 10 minutes (and Handle Animal, but if it's you, probably unnecessary). You can harvest doses through milking equal to its Con modifier (min 1), but then it loses the poison ability for a day.
You'll also need to store it properly, which is in the section below that.
2. 'How much spider web though? How much can they release per round?'
Depends on the spider. Must spiders have a number of times per day they can use their webbing. There's also whether they use it in sheeting to cover an area or like a lasso or net targeting a creature. One would assume the single strand would be stronger. Also might depend on the size of the spider. That I can't be sure of.
3. 'Are there any mechanics for how to process spider web into spidersilk?'
There's lot of methods, not necessarily mechanics. There's notes on making sunsilk or aranea silk or silkweave. Most of those require treating with alchemical processes and various specific things (leaving in the sun, or soaking in lime pools). If you're trying to make something, the rough in-game mechanic is that you would reasonably need enough to make the item. That means if you're making a shirt of silk, you would either need 1/3 cost of the shirt in materials (and this could be GM call if the entire object isn't made of the material) or you need that weight of material. For instance, making a 1 pound silk rope should require you to get 1 pound of silk (at least). Probably go with the most expensive or difficult thing if it can go either way.
I'd say just the typical rules for Crafting something apply. You get the materials you need and you make what you need and, in-character/in-game, you know the process. Unless it's some secret or restricted process, like making spiderweave that the drow and duergar keep for themselves, you should be fine.
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.
Pathfinder is quite clear that you do not actually become the creature whose form you assume. They make you appear to be that creature. You do not even change your type. That means you cannot reproduce. Putting it in scientific terms your DNA does not change. This shuts down a lot of the 3.x shenanigans.
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
You can actually figure out that something is under a polymorph spell by making a perception roll. That is why you gain a +10 to disguise skill.
I am glad we agree, however, saying that Pathfinder is quite clear on it is not that definitive. If it takes a lot of bolding and explaining and pointing out various things to piece it together. That's not 'quite clear'. (I also don't know why you bolded the specific individuals part, that has no bearing on the topic. I can turn into a human, I can't turn into Dolly Parton. If I can turn into a dog, I can't turn into Scooby Doo; I could turn into a great dane with brown fur.)
Again, I agree with your thoughts on it. But when you say that you don't get a creature's poison attack because you polymorph into them, I would have to say most people disagree. If I beast shape III into a black widow, I get the poison attack of a black widow. That means if I bite, I inject them with poison. What kind of poison? Is it polymorphed human/elf/halfing poison? No, it's black widow poison. And if a creature turned out to be specifically immune to black widow poison, like maybe another black widow... then they'd be immune to it. Whereas if I beast shape IIIpolymorphed a black widow into a rattlesnake and they bite another black widow, that other black widow would get poisoned. And what kind of poison would it be? Rattlesnake poison.
Like Mysterious Stranger said, the rules are a bit different. In 3.5, they had the wording 'Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.'
This kept people from harvesting organs or chopping off body parts (you also reverted to your normal form on death).
** spoiler omitted **
1. 'Poison is easy enough, a bite's worth released per round into some harvest vessel.'
Not quite. While delivering venom normally is typically one attack, milking venom takes longer under the general rules (specific cases can be different). You can find them under Poisons and the rules for Milking Venom.
Basically 10 minutes (and Handle Animal, but if it's you, probably unnecessary). You can harvest doses through milking equal to its Con modifier (min 1), but then it loses the poison ability for a day.
You'll also need to store it properly, which is in the section below that.
2. 'How much spider web though? How much can they release per...
You said a lot of words but in the end the only thing you gave a real answer for was for the silk processing.....
which is appreciated, but man you and mystery really rambled on.
heres the SRD
Quote:
SPIDER FORM, LESSER
Transmutation (Polymorph)
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Your arms and legs wither away as eight spindly spider legs burst through your flesh.
As the transformation finishes, your skin hardens into a dark exoskeleton. You take on the form and abilities of a Medium fiendish monstrous spider (MM 289). You are treated as having the spider’s Hit Dice (2) for the purpose of adjudicating the special abilities gained from the fiendish template. You gain 5 temporary hit points, which disappear at the end of the spell’s duration. See page 59 for details of the polymorph subschool.
Quote:
You take on the form and abilities of a Medium fiendish monstrous spider (MM 289)
Quote:
You are treated as having the spider’s Hit Dice (2) for the purpose of adjudicating the special abilities gained from the fiendish template.
the spell explicitly says you ARE a medium sized monster spider (giving a specific bestiary entry) of 2 hd with the feindesh template...
The only part thats really edition specific is the stipulation to see how polymorph works for general polymorph rules.
In 3.5 you retain mental stats.
but the rest, it says you get the form and abilites (supernatural, extraordinary, and spell like abilities... which is poison, web, and smite good). Feindesh also gives you cold resistance 5.
the spell itself explicitly states this. So you guys dont need to ramble on about polymorph and what abilities or what kind of spider youd get, its all clearly presented in the spell.
Quote:
There's also whether they use it in sheeting to cover an area or like a lasso or net targeting a creature. One would assume the single strand would be stronger. Also might depend on the size of the spider. That I can't be sure of.
since we dont need to wonder what kind of spider, there is this line of your reply.
the idea is to harvest and process the spiderweb, so sheet or lasso, whichever option can produce the most procesable silk.... clearly.
(use web ability 8 times per day) does not make it so clear to me how much silk they can really produce. So in lesser spider form I can just eject a whole web (comparable to the spell web, sounds like sheet form to me) in one round?
The answer here is firmly and completely "however the GM rules that a spell from a different game works." Previous folks in this thread have presented some solid info and insights, but there is NO actual, official, PF answer for how a DnD spell works.
You take on the form and abilities of a Medium fiendish monstrous spider (MM 289)
RAW: not a Pathfinder spell, it doesn't exist. In Pathfinder spiders are vermin, so you use Vermin Shape I or II.
Both the Pathfinder and the 3.5 versions of the spell have a duration of 1 minute/level. At the end of that time, all the harvested material revert to its original form*, spittle for the venom and something for the web (most playable races don't have glands similar to spinnerets).
Even if you process the harvested material in that short time, after the duration ends, it reverts to its original form. Processed spittle is processed spittle, not poison.
*Note: in 3.5 the parts separated from the polymorphed creature reverted immediately, but that generated problems with poison and webs, so most GMs didn't follow that rule consistently.
If you are asking a question in the Pathfinder rules question forum than the answer will be according to the Pathfinder rules. You really should be asking this in a D&D forum.
