The casting of a spell can range from a simple word of magical might that creates a fleeting effect to a complex process taking hours to cast and producing a long-term impact. Casting a spell requires the caster to make gestures and utter incantations, so being unable to speak prevents spellcasting for most casters. If your character has a long-term disability that prevents or complicates them from speaking (as described in GM Core), work with the GM to determine an analogous way they cast their spells, such as tapping in code on their staff or whistling.
Or does manipulate and concentrate dictate the need for gestures and incantations respectively?
I was reading the remaster witch focus spells and pg. 385 conveniently had a spell for each trait combination.
-Elemental Betrayal only has concentrate
-Life Boost only has manipulate
-Malicious Shadow has both
-Patron's puppet has neither
None are subtle so they all have obvious and noticeable manifestations, but I was wondering if the gestures and incantations are dependent on the spell's traits.
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Meanwhile at psychic class feature
Instead of speaking, you substitute any verbal components with a special mental component determined by your subconscious mind class feature. Any of these components impart the concentrate trait to the spell you're casting.
You also substitute any material components with somatic components, though these tend to be simple movements of the hand or head compared to those used by other spellcasters.
Your spells still have clear and noticeable visual and auditory manifestations, as normal for a spellcaster.
I don't see that the remaster's addressed this yet, so this is applying pre-remaster rules to post-remaster rules. Still, judging by the text, I'd say the material-to-somatic conversion just replaces one Manipulate action with another, so no real difference there.
As far as incantations and gestures, I'd assume without other text that all spells have them, just that Manipulate-tagged spells have elaborate enough gestures that it can set off reactions and Concentrate-tagged spells just require mental concentration and thus aren't available when you're using Rage. And Subtle spells suppress most notice.
As far as incantations and gestures, I'd assume without other text that all spells have them, just that Manipulate-tagged spells have elaborate enough gestures that it can set off reactions and Concentrate-tagged spells just require mental concentration and thus aren't available when you're using Rage. And Subtle spells suppress most notice.
As far as I've read, there are no direct mentions of the incantations and gestures being attached to specific traits unlike how verbal and somatic were before the remaster. I think that makes the most sense on how it works then, especially in context with how the Subtle trait works. As in, Subtle doesn't interact with traits either.
But that seems strange to me with "Power Word" like spells using gestures, o some other that are clearly of type "infiltration" currently using only somatic with uttering incantation taking it to the ground.
That eliminates some play cases like using Feather Fall (verbal only) if a companion falls while you have your hands on the rope.
I expect some clarify from them.
But that seems strange to me with "Power Word" like spells using gestures, o some other that are clearly of type "infiltration" currently using only somatic with uttering incantation taking it to the ground.
That eliminates some play cases like using Feather Fall (verbal only) if a companion falls while you have your hands on the rope.
I expect some clarify from them.
I'm assuming if you're fit enough to adventure you can hold onto a rope with one hand and both legs while hurriedly making the Gentle Landing gestures. This seems like a spell that would be engineered for casting on the fly, as it were.
And I like imagining the gestures for Power Word Kill to involve one specific finger on the caster's hand, extended to the target.
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Gentle landing has only the concentrate trait, so you can even do it fully restrained. Maybe your gestures for it involve eyebrows or ear wiggles.
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They’re nothing I’ve seen actually tying specific concentrate/manipulate traits to individual gesture/incantation requirements.
The basic spell rules say all spells requires both. This appears to be the case even for the handful of spells missing one or both of those traits.
Even subtle trait seems to leave some amount of talking, contrary to what I and others initially thought.
A spell with the subtle trait can be cast without incantations and doesn’t have obvious manifestations.
It's in one of the sidebars.
A spell with the subtle trait can be cast without incantations and doesn’t have obvious manifestations.It's in one of the sidebars.
This seems to be the case for spells innately with the subtle trait, but there is more ambiguity with spells that gain the trait due to conceal spell, as the descriptive text there just talks about the incantations being concealed.
The spell Traits and the need for speaking/gesturing seem fully decoupled now. All spells by default now require the latter (and require them to be obvious, unless the spell is Subtle). This means Lay on Hands requires speaking now and Shield requires you not to be tied up, which is ... annoying but there it is. The Concentrate and Manipulate Traits themselves have no connection to this mechanically and exist for the purposes of other interactions (Reactive Strike, effects that shut down Concentrate, etc.).
In other words, just because a spell is Subtle doesn't mean it doesn't still require gestures. They're just don't obviously give away that you're casting a spell. It also doesn't remove the Manipulate Trait. This is one of the things I really liked about the remaster. We needed a well-defined and discrete mechanic for this.
And for clarity: I don't think "gestures" means "Free Hand", it just means "can move limbs, probably". I would rule that if your arms and legs are bound, then you cannot gesture (unless you're a psychic - you would need to paralyze them completely).
- Jee
EDIT: Seems like "incantations" cover "all speaking related to spells" so that sidebar seems pretty clear on Subtle = no words. But I reckon you still need to be able to move, even subtly.
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This seems to be the case for spells innately with the subtle trait, but there is more ambiguity with spells that gain the trait due to conceal spell, as the descriptive text there just talks about the incantations being concealed.A spell with the subtle trait can be cast without incantations and doesn’t have obvious manifestations.It's in one of the sidebars.
Thanks, you two helped clarify where the confusion lies and why people were pushing back on me and making me doubt this.
I think the Subtle trait is clear - no incantations necessary. (Innocent seeming gestures remain. The Clintonian thumb gesture as you Charm someone seems appropos.)
Conceal Spell feat (for Wizard) reads:
By shaping the magical energies and parameters of your spells all in your head through sheer concentration, you can simplify the incantations and gestures needed to spellcast, leaving them barely noticeable. If the next action you use is to Cast a Spell, the spell gains the subtle trait, hiding the shining runes, sparks of magic, and other manifestations that would usually give away your spellcasting. The trait hides only the spell’s spellcasting actions and manifestations, not its effects, so an observer might still see a ray streak out from you or see you vanish into thin air.
It says as part of Paizo's often confusing and unhelpful flavor text it "can simplify the incantations" (implying they're still there), but it also gives the subtle trait, which explicitly takes the incantations away.
When stuff like this conflicts I always rely on the trait language the most (glossary language is the same as the side bar, btw), the intro sentences where they're often freestyling a bad description for copyfit purposes the least.
I don't doubt that subtle spell prevents things like breath loss underwater and you can cast while gagged.
Speaking of unhelpful and confusing wizard flavor text, Interdisciplinary Incantation, while a terrible focus spell regardless, might not be as terrible as it tries to be. The intro sentence says "you gather the embers of another caster's spell," but the actual trigger is just "a creature within 30 feet casts an arcane spell. You should be able to use it to dump a prepared slot you don't want to double cast something else once per day.