https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1900
Very strange wording on the Ooze ammunition.
Ooze ammunition is a capsule containing a sticky substance. If you hit a creature with activated ooze ammunition, it deals acid damage instead of its normal damage type, and the creature then takes the listed penalty to Speed and persistent acid damage until it ends the effects. On a critical hit, the creature is immobilized for 1 round in addition to the other effects. The target can end the effects by Escaping the sticky foam. Other creatures can provide the actions, although doing so deals half the ammunition's persistent acid damage to the assisting creature. A creature that ends the effect still takes the persistent damage that turn.
Is that text saying that until the hit target spends an action to wipe the ooze away, it will continue to take the acid dmg, no chance to roll a normal recovery for persistent damage?
It seems rather unambiguous, but I've not encounter that kind of rule modifier before.
To be clear, the Escape DC is pretty dang low, DC 20 for the L6 version.
But, if this really does force an enemy to burn an action or suffer the acid, that makes it viable in a lot more circumstances.
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Never mind, it makes more sense that the default means of recovery is still there, and the item grants one more way to get rid of it.
Damn, this is disappointing.
Had a big climatic fight, and of course I never shot a single Ooze arrow.
The L3 Acid Flask, which is thrown via 1-Action Quick Bomber, is just a better choice 99% of the time than the L6 Ooze ammo.
The Acid Flask is a just a straightforward damage tool, and even encourages paying attention to initiative order (much better to throw at something that goes after you in the turn order).
The Ooze Ammo giving an enemy a quick 1-action way to just wipe off the persistent damage absolutely ruins the potential use as a damage or debuff tool, and leaving the normal means of persistent recovery kills its potential as an action stealer.
This is the perfect example of a "trap" option. Might seem good at first glance, but. Every potential use case, even the crit rider immobilized, can be done better with something else, something you'll likely have access to.
I really wish I had the Infused Reagents of the Ooze Ammunition during that fight, or that I had spent them on more Acid Flasks.
A 'trap' option is one that doesn't work as advertised at all. Like the Hex Delivery part of Eldritch Nails.
Ooze Arrow is a 'niche' option. It isn't good in all situations or for all characters. An alchemist is probably going to be using other items such as Acid Flask with Quick Bomber because it gives good results for fewer actions.
But Ooze Arrow does actually work as described, and isn't really all that bad. A '1-action lost' effect is a pretty good debuff even if the enemy chooses that option. And since it is an item, there are no class feature requirements in order to have it available like the spells or special abilities that you could duplicate the effects with.
I've always interpreted Ooze ammo as, they take the damage until they either escape or scrape off the ooze.
Ooze ammo isn't all that bad... it's basically a combination between an Acid Flask and a Glue Bomb. It's very similar to a Goo Grenade.
I find alchemical & magical ammunition can be a bad fit with bows though. Reload 0 works because you can draw & strike with the same action... which doesn't play well with needing to Activate special ammo. To use an Ooze Arrow I imagine you'd have to Interact (Draw), then Interact (Activate) then Strike. Same amount of actions as using Ooze ammo in a gun or crossbow.
I find alchemical & magical ammunition can be a bad fit with bows though. Reload 0 works because you can draw & strike with the same action... which doesn't play well with needing to Activate special ammo. To use an Ooze Arrow I imagine you'd have to Interact (Draw), then Interact (Activate) then Strike. Same amount of actions as using Ooze ammo in a gun or crossbow.You don't need to draw it for a bow, you can activate it in a quiver.
Yeah, I suppose... it just doesn't fit the picture I have in my head. Traditionally, arrows are point down in quivers, so how are you supposed to reach the arrowhead to activate the ammo? I think you're correct and that RAW it works, but I just can't bring myself to think it should.
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Yeah, I suppose... it just doesn't fit the picture I have in my head. Traditionally, arrows are point down in quivers, so how are you supposed to reach the arrowhead to activate the ammo? I think you're correct and that RAW it works, but I just can't bring myself to think it should.
Once you have wrapped your head around that one, next you can try describing how you interact to activate already-loaded firearm ammunition like Exsanguinating Ammunition.
A 'trap' option is one that doesn't work as advertised at all. Like the Hex Delivery part of Eldritch Nails.
Ooze Arrow is a 'niche' option. It isn't good in all situations or for all characters. An alchemist is probably going to be using other items such as Acid Flask with Quick Bomber because it gives good results for fewer actions.
But Ooze Arrow does actually work as described, and isn't really all that bad. A '1-action lost' effect is a pretty good debuff even if the enemy chooses that option. And since it is an item, there are no class feature requirements in order to have it available like the spells or special abilities that you could duplicate the effects with.
IMO, the closer something looks to being viable / a good choice, but is never actually the smart thing to do, the more of a "trap" it is.
It's about looking close on paper, but never a good idea in practice.---------
Something like those Nails seems honest about how risky a trade it would be to chance a spell failure to get an extra unarmed Strike of damage in there. And I can see someone taking it for the d6 always there, rune compatible unarmed attack. Especially with how most Oils need to be used in 2-H, nails seems a valid fallback weapon when constantly Stow, Draw, or now Swapping would be too problematic for a held weapon.
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Especially now that I'll get the ability to make all common items w/o the formula nightmare, I cannot honestly think of a situation when I *should* use an Ooze arrow over something else.
Elemental Ammo literally can do the same persistent Acid damage, Splashes for a dash more, and does not have the 1-action end the effects to wipe away the persistent dmg, forcing them to pass the high flat check.
If I want a move spd slow there's a bunch of options, but Frost Vials for also doing d6 and no save would be up there, and there's Tanglefoot if you really need a lasting (still action-clearable) -spd for some reason.
IMO, the closer something looks to being viable / a good choice, but is never actually the smart thing to do, the more of a "trap" it is.
It's about looking close on paper, but never a good idea in practice.
That isn't what I am used to the meaning being when someone calls something a 'trap option'. Because this definition means anything that is just a smidge less that the optimal ideal best-pick option is a 'trap option'.
So basically, A-tier choices are trap options. Only S-tier choices are not. And even then, it is only the top end of the S-tier. Something that only just barely makes the cut into S-tier may very well still be a trap option if there is something similar that is just slightly better.
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Also, Eldritch Nails would be viable as an unarmed attack for a Witch if they had the Finesse trait. As it is currently, Handwraps and the default Fist attack is a better choice. Strength-based melee Witch is an oxymoron.
IMO, the closer something looks to being viable / a good choice, but is never actually the smart thing to do, the more of a "trap" it is.
It's about looking close on paper, but never a good idea in practice.
That isn't what I am used to the meaning being when someone calls something a 'trap option'. Because this definition means anything that is just a smidge less that the optimal ideal best-pick option is a 'trap option'.
So basically, A-tier choices are trap options. Only S-tier choices are not. And even then, it is only the top end of the S-tier. Something that only just barely makes the cut into S-tier may very well still be a trap option if there is something similar that is just slightly better.
It's less about being sub-optimal, and more about seeming better than it really is. It can be something as simple as an abnormally bad save DC meaning enemies never fail it (many alch items), something having friendly fire and causing more problems than it solves (Sun Dazzler), or something seemingly great in most circumstances, but whoops, makes you concealed to the ally that's trying to land a Heal on you (Mistform Elixirs).
Something with downsides that are hard to understand or predict, and that you immediately downgrade a full "tier" or two once you actually trigger the trap by trying to use them in practice.
Just the extra action cost of Alch Ammo by itself seems to "trap" a whole lot of players who then go on to immediately disregard them.