Can I do this?
Two-action Act Together
- Summoner casts Thundering dominance on eidolon
- Then eidolon immediately uses the Thundering Roar action given by the spell
Weird thing is the eidolon doesn't have the Thundering Roar action until AFTER the spell is cast. Can the eidolon legally take the Thundering Roar action for the Act Together single action even if it did not exist until well after I already committed to Act Together?
Okay, so maybe the better question is this---
Do I declare the exact two actions I plan to take when I take the Act Together activity, possibly the exact targets and other decisions for those actions, OR do I simply commit to a number of actions to Act Together first then choose the appropriate actions to fit as I go?
For a more general example, let's say I two-action Act Together planning to summoner cantrip and eidolon strike a target. I resolve the eidolon strike first and it unexpectedly crits and kills the target. Do I waste the cantrip as it no longer has a target, do I still cast the cantrip but instead choose a different target, or do I have the freedom to choose any other two-action activity to complete the two-action Act Together?
Thanks in advance!!
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Yes, you can.
You never declare anything up front in PF2, actions are meant to happen one after the other. So you wait for the resolution of the previous action to choose what action and who you target with the next.
Still, there's a catch with Act Together which is that you have to use the action with the various cost first. So you need to use Electric Arc before your Eidolon Strike.
You never declare anything up front in PF2, actions are meant to happen one after the other. So you wait for the resolution of the previous action to choose what action and who you target with the next.
Note that this doesn't work for stuff like Magic Missile/Force Barrage, as you have to choose all targets before rolling damage. This is because it's all part of the same action or actions.
Still, there's a catch with Act Together which is that you have to use the action with the various cost first. So you need to use Electric Arc before your Eidolon Strike.
Could you please direct me to where this kind of rule is stated? Because in the Act Together text I read that one does one thing, and (not then) the other does another thing. There's no order implied.
Use the rules, not the examples given in the rules.
If going just by the examples, then you couldn't use any 1-action activity since it says that the character of the pair that is not using an activity uses 'an action' and all of the examples are simple actions of Stride and Strike.
But that is so brutally limiting in what is available for the Summoner player's turn that it is only worth mentioning as an example of what ruling to not make.
Could you please direct me to where this kind of rule is stated? Because in the Act Together text I read that one does one thing, and (not then) the other does another thing. There's no order implied.
If the actions can be done in any order, it's written like in Skirmish Strike.
Otherwise, you do the first one then the second one, like in Coordinated Charge.
I think you are reading too much into there only being two examples given. With four possibilities,
Summoner activity, Eidolon action
Eidolon activity, Summoner action
Summoner action, Eidolon activity
Eidolon action, Summoner activity
that means that something is going to be consistent in all of the examples.
They could have given the Summoner going first in all cases and switch up whether they do an action or an activity. These two:
Summoner activity, Eidolon action
Summoner action, Eidolon activity
And we would instead be arguing if the Eidolon could ever use their actions first during Act Together before the Summoner uses theirs.
Or they could have used these two examples:
Summoner activity, Eidolon action
Eidolon action, Summoner activity
And we would be arguing if the Eidolon is ever allowed to be the one using a multi-action activity.
But instead they used these two examples:
Summoner activity, Eidolon action
Eidolon activity, Summoner action
So here we are.
I also point out that the word 'then' is not used in the Act Together rules text.
Even you use it when trying to show that the order of actions is specified.
Otherwise, you do the first one then the second one
Because that word is what English requires in order to show that the order is important. Since the Act Together rule deliberately omits that*, the order is not important.
* The sentence actually sounds more natural to native speakers if it says 'and then'. "Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and then the other takes a single action.
Not having the 'then' in there is very obvious and sounds a bit jarring.
And at the end of the day, when the dice are hitting the table:
Any ruling that doesn't allow
...
◆◆Act Together (◇Boost Eidolon, ◇◇Beast's Charge)
◆ Strike
is likely going to be ruled as too bad to be true.
Whether that ruling is because Boost Eidolon is a spell and therefore an activity and therefore not a single action, or because the Boost Eidolon effect can't happen before Beast's Charge does.
Yes, you can.
You never declare anything up front in PF2, actions are meant to happen one after the other. So you wait for the resolution of the previous action to choose what action and who you target with the next.
Thanks!! I was definitely overthinking it but had to make sure to tie up all possible loose ends in my head.
Still, there's a catch with Act Together which is that you have to use the action with the various cost first. So you need to use Electric Arc before your Eidolon Strike.Could you please direct me to where this kind of rule is stated? Because in the Act Together text I read that one does one thing, and (not then) the other does another thing. There's no order implied.
I never got the impression there was an order implied either, both in the Act Together description and the examples. The order description from the playtest, which is where I get my bias from I guess, is missed here.
I think you are reading too much into there only being two examples given.
Well, everywhere in the rules where you can choose the order it is explicitly stated. On the other hand, you have activities like Coordinated Charge where the "and" clearly means a "then" (I assume you won't allow the Strike to happen before the Stride).
But at the same time I agree with your Beast Charge example.So I think there are 2 valid interpretations in that case.
Well, everywhere in the rules where you can choose the order it is explicitly stated.
I haven't checked all of them. But I also assume that in all of the other examples that the ability isn't talking about two different creatures taking the actions.
Act Together is very much a unique ability in the rules.
On the other hand, you have activities like Coordinated Charge where the "and" clearly means a "then" (I assume you won't allow the Strike to happen before the Stride).
That is also true.