With the fact Psychic is not on the Remastered table, which is a real shame you got to be asking yourself some questions. Why can Animist get 3-4 slots of magic, a "Must have" level 4 feat, Sustaining Dancve, start with 2 focus points and can auto-grba a 3rd at level 4. Not to mention get even class features.
Is it time we all consider giving Psychic 3 slots of Occult Magic instead of limiting them down to just 2? Animist get Light, medium armor, 8 hit points, 3 focus points while Psychic gets 10 minute insta refocus and reduced spell-casting for amp'd cantrips.
This and some other things makes me think that the class probably will be nerfed in its final version.
But we need to remember that druid's have a very solid chassis too (and even more solid after remaster).
The question is more why some caster get a considerably more solid chassis while others don't.
I would expect changes to the psychic focus amps in the remaster probably just allowing them to regain all their focus points in 10 minutes from level 1.This and some other things makes me think that the class probably will be nerfed in its final version.
But we need to remember that druid's have a very solid chassis too (and even more solid after remaster).
The question is more why some caster get a considerably more solid chassis while others don't.
Per the remaster preview doc, the Refocus action as a default is getting improved, regardless of class, to get 1 point back per 10 minutes, and every class that gets a feat to improve their refocus (I think all of them at 12th level) their feat gets changed to let them get back all their points with one Refocus.
AFAIK though, Psychic isn't slated for any remaster-specific changes outside of that.
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With the fact Psychic is not on the Remastered table, which is a real shame you got to be asking yourself some questions. Why can Animist get 3-4 slots of magic, a "Must have" level 4 feat, Sustaining Dancve, start with 2 focus points and can auto-grba a 3rd at level 4. Not to mention get even class features.
Is it time we all consider giving Psychic 3 slots of Occult Magic instead of limiting them down to just 2? Animist get Light, medium armor, 8 hit points, 3 focus points while Psychic gets 10 minute insta refocus and reduced spell-casting for amp'd cantrips.
You seem to keep doing this - comparing the best features of Animist with a crude caricature of another class. It isn't a valid comparison.
Try actually building a character of each class - realizing that it isn't going to be the same character - and then comparing those for how well they actually fit their respective character roles.
Don't try to build the same Animist character using a different class and then pointing out how bad a Psychic is at filling the role of an Animist.
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Psychic is a focus point casting character that specializes in damage blasting. They get 3 amp focus spells at level 1 and the 2 focus points to cast them with. They also get Unleash Psyche which will add 2 points per spell rank to all of their damage spells.
Yeah, Earth's Bile isn't bad as a damage blasting spell. Now check out Telekinetic Rend, both non-amped that doesn't cost a focus point, amped that does cost a focus point, and while under the effects of Unleash Psyche which, since focus spells and cantrips are auto-heightened to maximum level, will add a bonus to damage approximately equal to your character level.
I don't think that a Psychic that is trying to be a Psychic is going to be jealous of an Animist either.
Yes. IMO Bile is currently the best Animist's Focus Spell. It's pretty easy to use, pretty fast to get its maximum output (1st round, stance, bile, bile and starting from 2nd round bile, sustain, sustain, and then sustain, sustain, sustain) you still can Leap/Step each time you sustain it.
Even if you put into a situation where you need to use another spell (like healing someone) you can simply stop to sustain 2 biles and begin to use your spell slots (it's like your was changing you gameplay mode).
Making this using the new refocus rules that allows you get all your 3 focus point in 30 minutes this makes that build pretty sustainable as a default strategy for blaster Animists.
I understand why some people compares it with psychics and put psychic into a subpar position. But remember that this is a playtest (the final version could be pretty different) and we still don't know what the designers will do with psychics in post-remaster.
But currently using the playtest. If you want to make an very efficient sustainable focus caster the animist probably is your best option.
Not convinced on out-blast. It is still a big 10 foot burst that makes no distinction between friend and foe. Hard to use if the enemies are in melee range with allies.
With the removal of being able to have multiple of them going at once - or even just a note that creatures can only be affected by any instance of it once per round - then it doesn't seem to be more than what several other classes can do.
And the entire point of Animist is that you pick for a day what other class you want to be approximately equal to.
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I think Animist Focus spells and feats easily top the caster chart... At this point I am just curious to see how/if they get nerfed and if casters get anything fun in the remaster.
Right now, it seems like Animist focus spells rival Kineticist at will abilities while having near full casting too... Of course, other classes have plenty of unique things.
And if the "point" of the class is to outblast the blaster, and still be able to switch another day to a different role, then I can confidently say that this is broken.
If it is in fact outperforming other classes, then yes - it is too powerful.
But my biggest gripe with Medium was that no matter what I picked, I was noticeably less powerful than the equivalent. I don't want to see Animist in that same spot.
The point is the flexibility. Once the daily choices are made, the character should be performing on-par with the other characters in the selected role. Not relegated to second string no matter what they choose.
I think it depends on if we are talking about overall character or one particular facet of a character.
An Animist with Embodiment of Battle isn't going to be as good overall as a Fighter. They may be able to get nearly the same final bonus numbers, but they won't have the HP, and combat feats. For doing one thing - Strike - they can be a 10 without stepping on the entire class of Fighter.
Similar with Kineticist. An Animist throwing out Earth's Bile and sustaining it every round may be rather equivalent to the amount of elemental damage that Kineticist is doing. But they don't have the variety of other options that one particular Kineticist has for both in-combat and out of combat utility. And certainly not as much as a toolbox caster can get.
I'm still not liking the idea of having Animist max out at 9 on anything that they are allowed to do. Their 10 can be pretty narrow, but it shouldn't be a 9.
If Earth's bile is just amended so that the areas cannot stack, than all of the "look how good of a blaster the Animist is" talk goes away entirely, because it is only focus spells and apparition spells the animist can actually use to blast, and they have less spell slots for this than a psychic does.
So it is all cantrips, 1 focus spell, and 1 top slot a day and 1 second highest rank spell slot a day. And even with the damage and accuracy boosting feats available in the class, without being able to spam Earth's Bile, they fall off very quickly.
I am certain that Earth's Bile, and its actual effectiveness in play, is something that Mike and the developers wanted to look at closely and see how much it really gets exploited in actual play. There are many different ways it could very gently be brought down from the hyperbolic "cast this spell 3 times every encounter for the rest of your life" scenarios being tossed around, and I am sure that they are ready to do so if that is the huge sticking point of the whole class.
I am sure they want to see people playing the class and see whether everyone just builds around this one option and whether people have fun doing so, but it is very unlikely to be the brand new ceiling of blasting for the game as a whole, and especially only have one particular path to it that doesn't really interact well with the vast majority of middle and higher level feats.
Make Earth's Bile as good as Telekinetic Rend, the Psychic needs someone to share his misery.
Like I mentioned in another thread, if Animist isn't allowed to be on-par with other classes, then the class is going to be as hated as the pre-Remaster Witch - and for the same reason.
Occult Witch looks like a Bard. Arcane Witch looks like a Wizard. Divine Witch looks like a Cleric. Primal Witch looks like a Druid.
And in all of those cases, the Witch was only at an 8-9 on power level in comparison to those classes.
And was hated as a result.
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It is just a playtest and remaster is coming I am trying no to be too negative but we have nothing else to compare too.
Just look at their focus spells and compare them to others classes. They are better than one cast focus spells and can be sustained.
Focus spells are pretty much at will with the changes to focus points. 3 per battle.
My poor Kineticist gets 1d8 scaling on 2+ action overflows while Animist gets 1d4+spell level scaling on one action,
Originally I thought that was pretty good...
Their other focus spells aren't any worse. Better martial proficiencies than any other casters by far (kind of pointless with a Bard in the group), shapeshifting that seems better with the status bonus, the best defense aura.
The problem is, how do we give feedback when we have no idea what other casters are getting... Right now they just seem flat out amazing.
Just to make clear. I don't defending that Animist have to be nerfed. But in that current situation its focus spells are so good that makes feel that when designers does that power review that they do in the final version of a class the risk of nerfs to me appear to be high. But if they keep as it current are still perfect to me.
I just don't get hopes into it based in Paizo magical class history (IMO Kineticist is an out-of-range case). Yet Players Core 2 may change this point of view. Maybe (I'm trying to avoid to enter in a hype) and the Kineticist and Remaster and War of Immortals may be a change point in how the game designers deal with magical classes in PF2 (except for wizards kkkk).
Yes. IMO Bile is currently the best Animist's Focus Spell. It's pretty easy to use, pretty fast to get its maximum output (1st round, stance, bile, bile and starting from 2nd round bile, sustain, sustain, and then sustain, sustain, sustain) you still can Leap/Step each time you sustain it.
Even if you put into a situation where you need to use another spell (like healing someone) you can simply stop to sustain 2 biles and begin to use your spell slots (it's like your was changing you gameplay mode).
Making this using the new refocus rules that allows you get all your 3 focus point in 30 minutes this makes that build pretty sustainable as a default strategy for blaster Animists.
I understand why some people compares it with psychics and put psychic into a subpar position. But remember that this is a playtest (the final version could be pretty different) and we still don't know what the designers will do with psychics in post-remaster.
But currently using the playtest. If you want to make an very efficient sustainable focus caster the animist probably is your best option.
Mother of God. I had completely failed to consider sustaining multiple instances. at 5th level that'd be...
2d4+3+2d4, three times a round. Average 24 damage per turn on a single target. In a perfect scenario hitting 4 enemies that's 96 DPR at level 5. If you can reliably hit two people with each burst that's an insane damage output for such a low level and "infinite" ability.
It also has an curious advantage/disadvantaged that's the fact that you will be affected by weakness/resistances multiple times.
So if your target have physical or bludgeoning or fire resistance this will reduce the dmg output a lot but if has weakness it will be benefit from the weakness multiple times too. But in general this is good because as a spell caster when facing some damage resistance enemies you can user your other spells that you probably save using Bile in other encounter to workaround the resistance while vs weakness you just need to continue sustaining.
Witch is a specialist on the power level of a hybrid, that's why it's weak.
I'm pointing out that being at only the power level of a hybrid for the entire class is going to feel weak. No matter if the class is supposed to be a hybrid or a specialist.
I'm not saying that the focus spells don't need a balance pass. Bile especially.
What I am saying is that if the cost of being able to switch things up daily is going to cost too much in build budget - that it needs to be changed so that no matter what you pick for the day it won't be effective against on-level threats - then what is the point? Who would play that?
Changing Bile so that it doesn't out-damage Kineticist sounds like a good plan.
Changing Embodiment of Battle so that it only ever does the +1/+1 and is therefore much worse than what Inspire Courage or even Stoke the Heart can do - just so that we can't even use the spell for its intended purpose of feeling like the Animist character is holding its own in melee like a Summoner's Eidolon can? And for what purpose? So that we don't get an edge case scenario where in a whiteroom an Animist can end up with an equivalent bonus that a Fighter can get - even though the Animist can't get further boosts from the party, doesn't get any of the 2-for-1 accuracy boost actions, or action economy boosting actions, or special maneuver actions that Fighter, Monk, Barbarian, Ranger, Rogue, or even Champion can get. And instead Animist has to spend an action each round sustaining the spell that is putting them on-par with the martials.
Somehow people are claiming that this 'being equal temporarily and with a cost' is too good to be balanced.
I'm claiming that 'being permanently less than everyone else all the time' is too bad to be balanced.