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So my friends and I did a playtest of the classes today, and they asked me to do the big long write up (I hope they intend to do the survey). We played PFS scenario 3-13 (Guardian's Covenant) at level 5 but it wasn't for official PFS credit as we changed some of the rules (like only having three players, and playing up when we shouldn't have)
The party:
Two animists, both channelers, both had similar apparition loadouts (one was the garden/healing one, one was the volcano/damage on, and then one had the soldier and one had the infiltrator)
Our Exemplar was a moody dagger-weilding high strength, high dex character with low charisma. His weapon ikon was a +1 striking returning throwing dagger.
Animist Notes:
-It was suggested that each apparition give something special when it is your primary apparition, other than the ability to into their unique focus spell. Also, some focus spells were way stronger than others. Standing back and activating healing from Groves and Guardans while chucking spells was a favorite; positioning yourself so that your friend could receive healing but enemies couldn't was a popular tactic.
-Both Animists picked up sustaining dance and agreed it was a 'must have' for a class so focused on sustaining animist spells. Seems like it should be a level 4 class feature or something, otherwise, it's no contest . . . everyone almost HAS to take it.
-For the most part, the spellcasting was okay, access to fun spells not normally on the divine list like fireball were great.
-One player wanted to use the soldier to do melee frontlining but found the issue a bit limiting. They'd have to invest in buying a martial weapon (longhammer in this case) but they were only proficient if they channeled the warrior. Even at level 5 with 18 strength he was way behind the melee damage curve, and felt the soldier spirit should give a small damage boost in order to remain competitive. Like an extra damage per damage die or something.
-Both Animists were channelers, and agreed the ability to change primary spirit in combat was WAY better than the sage. Even with the free feat the sage gets, the channeler is fantastic as it lets you react to situations you may not have been prepared for like ambushes.
-Volcano Spirit and the Garden's spirits were by far the most popular. The ability to heal everyone in the party to full after a 11 minutes was fantastic (1 min for the sustained spell, 10 min. to refocus), and the volcano guy could do a lot of damage that barely had any resource cost for a single action a round. Nothing else came close, not even the soldier.
-Both Animists agreed that there needed to be a boost to the lore skills you get from spirits. As a non-int based class, getting only trained in lore skills is eventually going to fail you, the DCs are just going to outpace what you have. Even at level 5, the bonus to lore skills were +7 or 8, and the DCs were around 20s, meaning you needed to roll a 12-13 to succeed. This problem is only going to get worse at high levels. By the time you are level 17, assuming your int is 10, the average DC is 34, meaning you'd need a 17 on the die to succeed at an AVERAGE check, let alone a difficult one.
-There was some complaint that the auras were indiscriminant. It really hurt the player who wanted to role-play with the infiltrator by giving enemies roll twice take the worst on attack rolls but that would have meant beaing near the Exemplar and hurting his rolls as well. Seems like having a few of the focus spells recognize friends might be good.
IN SUMMERY: Solid class, but some apparitions are way stronger than others. Soldier needs a slight damage boost to make them something other than a joke. Lore Skills need to progress, or else give them some other boost (maybe wisdom based?) Channelers way stronger than sages (especially since the sage ability really doesn't work, I go into that in other posts.)
Some fixes: The volcano and garden apparitions seemed really strong, and were 'auto picks.' Either up the other apparitions or tone down those ones. Maybe at level 10 your apparition's lore skills go to expert, and maybe at 15 master? Buff the sage. Sustaining dance should be a class feature. Buff the soldier. Maybe each apparition could give an 'ancalarry benifit' when it is your primary? Like giving you martial weapon proficiency for the soldier, or the infiltrator making it harder to detect you.
EXEMPLAR
The big issue here with the Exemplar is that they just stupid amounts of damage. Our Exemplar was using a throwing dagger, and his damage was still insane. Using the Gleaming Blade and Throw at the Horizon, he could make two attacks at his highest base attack bonus from 30 feet away doing 2d6+10 damage per hit . . . and it was all spirit damage so it bypassed any resistances or physical damage reduction he had.
So he got into a rotation of Throwing his dagger, doing stupid amounts of damage, then putting his divine spark in his body. Next round he'd use his transencence ability for Gaze as sharp as steel (to give him AoOs), be able to move due to his brave epithet, and then strike twice for 2d6+10 damage . . . some of which was spirit. Next round, Use the transendence ability of Gleaming blade again and start the entire rotation again. He never touched his worn Ikon, never needed to. He was doing as much damage as a giant instinct barbarian without any of the drawbacks like -2 to AC or anathemas . . . oh and also half the time his damage was spirit damage so it bypassed DR.
He did however, have a major problem, and that was he was fairly bad at skills. Limiting his skills to religion +2 was . . . not great and just straight up prevented him from role-playing with the party. He'd start to say something and then the GM would call for a diplomacy check, and all the sudden he's like, Oh, I mean . . . I don't say anything.
In Summery: Does A LOT of damage, even with a substandard weapon, seems to be little to no reason use your worn ikon, low number of skills severely hampers role play.
Fixes: Reduce damage by a bit. Gleaming blade transendence ability needs to be reworked. Maybe include some mechanic that emphasizes switching between Ikons, not just always going back to weapon.
Also, there were calls for abilities to make unarmored and unarmed options for the Exemplar
TBH the weirdest thing about the exemplar's damage in this particular instance is they get weapon specialization two levels sooner than everyone else, which combined with the way striking runes work gives them a weird power spike in the 4-5 range, followed by their damage bonus not scaling at all until 12. They could use a more linear progression.
On its own 2 damage per die isn't actually that amazing as far as martial steroids go.
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Thank you VampByDay for taking the time to partake in and give an actual playtest writeup. I particularly like the players takeaways from the test as to what worked and how, and what they felt was unbalanced/needed tinkering with.
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TBH the weirdest thing about the exemplar's damage in this particular instance is they get weapon specialization two levels sooner than everyone else, which combined with the way striking runes work gives them a weird power spike in the 4-5 range, followed by their damage bonus not scaling at all until 12. They could use a more linear progression.
On its own 2 damage per die isn't actually that amazing as far as martial steroids go.
Sure, getting a damage boost early is nice, but the ability to hit twice at your highest base attack bonus with the Gleaming Blade's transendence ability was what made it take off. I know you can twin strike with a fighter, which might look the same, but it requires two weapons (so they have to be one-handed weapons) and it is going to be reliant on both your weapons being enchanted. Meanwhile the Exemplar can pull it with just a single greatsword . . . and with a feat can do it at range!
Question: Did your play through factor in the guideline that relevant Lore skills typically can roll against an easier DC because they have a narrower scope? Depending how this is ruled, it would have a significant impact on whether the apparition Lore skills are felt to be strong.
Depends on the lore, some of the lore skills granted does not seem to help much but it would be nice if Animist started with Spirit Lore or Hasunt Lore as a bonus skill some where. It would also be nice if there was a way to use your WIS Modifier in Lore granted by your Apperaitio. Kinda like Thaumatuge with CHa.
Wait I have to ask, did the Exemplar throw his knife during Gleaming Blade Transcend? Mirrored Spirit Strike.
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To answer questions:
Sibelius: Yes, the official PFS scenario reduced the DC for all lore skills by 2. Sadly, even though the two animists had access to 6 extra lore skills each, it very rarely came up. Hilariously, the most useful lore skill was Kols Lore that the Gnome had from Gnome Obsession and his background.
Elemental of Cuteness: Yes, he was using that attack on his throwing knife with the returning Rune.
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Scenarios will not usually ask for Lore checks unless these are pretty obvious for the scenario.
The common use of Lores is for creatures' identification.
So, the value of Apparitions' lores will greatly depend on whether the GM specifically creates opportunities for them.
That will make their value highly variable, which can be an issue actually.
Do you choose your Apparitions for their Focus spell, for their spell list or for their Lore skill ?