New to Starfinder (and Golarion)… I had a few questions

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1) We know that technology will advance on Golarion because we have the result of that advancement in the Starfinder setting. The “Gap” doesn’t let us know how far into the future the Starfinder setting is but can we assume the Golarion tech level advances at the same rate as it did/does on Earth? So, in a couple hundred years we’ll have an “industrial revolution” on Golarion and then, from there, tech blasts off at an exponential rate?

In most fantasy settings we don’t have to think about this as it doesn’t have a companion setting that’s set in the far future with advanced tech. We can just assume the setting pretty much stays at medieval/Renaisance tech level as that’s what we know and love from fiction - the setting might stay like that for thousands of years and we can hand wave it as it’s fantasy. With Golarion, however, it is confirmed it does advance to a high tech level. So I find the question of how fast tech advances on Golarion needs to be asked.

2) Are elves, dwarves, gnomes, half-elves, half-orcs and halflings as prolific as they were when they lived on Golarion? I just ask the question as they’re not core PC races in Starfinder.

3) Where do the core Starfinder PC races (lashuntas, kasathas, androids, vesk, ysoki, shirrens) come from? Are they from planets within the Golarion solar system or are they from external solar systems?

4) What examples of a fusion of magic and technology are there? Can you just get a +1 enchanted blaster, etc? A starship nuclear reactor of endless power? Has magic crafting been industrialised with magic-using factory workers pumping out magitech?

5) The Pathfinder setting is called Golarion. Does the Starfinder setting have a name? It would be nice to refer to it as something other than the “Starfinder setting”.

Thank you

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

1) this isn’t confirmed at all, the opposite even, they are two separate timelines because of the Gap, what happens in one doesn’t dictate the other.

2) no, or rather not compared to all the other species.

3) this info is available on the Starfinderwiki.

4) Plenty, the specifics are covered in the books for specific lore and items.

5) The Pact Worlds System

[Justin Norveg]

1) Golarion has vanished. Its a big mystery in the setting. All that the most powerful divinations will reveal is that it's somewhere, it and the people living there are safe. We know Torag (Grand pappy of the dwarven pantheon) is there looking after it.

There is a gap in the universes collective histories that starts roughly 323 years ago , goes back at least a thousand years, and then history picks back up again. Some speculate that the gap and Golarion gone missing are related. Others speculate that Golarion just happened to vanish during the gap and are only surprised pathfinders didn't blow it up before then.

Whether its been stopped in time, put into its own pocket dimension, shunted 4 widdershins dimensionally, moved to the far corners of the galaxy or what no one knows. The big deities aren't talking and the smaller ones seem to genuinely not know.

So we have no idea how far tech on Golarion has advanced.

2) Most aren't as prolific

Elves are originally from Castrovel (pulp novel Venus) , they magic gated to Golarion so they have a homeland. However, many of them were alive during the gap so they came to as fully grown adults with fully intact memories. They got kinda paranoid about it and really don't want to talk to anyone else. Most of the adventures you see are considered a little odd.

Dwarves took to mining the asteroid belts. Their relative numbers seem to have been reduced a bit.

Gnomes: Gnomes seem to have diverged into two sub species during the gap. On Golarion, a gnome who got bored would turn white and "bleach" losing their color and eventually sanity before giving up on life and dying. There are now happy go lucky wheeeee gnomes and serious dour bleachling gnomes. They're a fair bit rarer than when Golarion was around.

Humans: Definitely fell a few steps down the galactic food chain in the pact worlds. Sorry about your planet (but we highly suspect they're the reason its not around anymore). They however have a population on Akiton (mars). They are also the dominant species in the azlanti star empire. Apparently just before a meteor took out the azlanti empire, some of their explorers took a portal off world to who knows where. They not only survived but thrived/ Being humans they thought the universe owed them an empire and made one.

Orcs have a large population on Apostae where they're an oppressed underclass.

halfings: reduced in prominence a fair bit since they tended to live alongside humans.

3) Lashuntas are native to castrovel. They're more psychic than magic, so didn't make quite the impact on golarion as elves

Kasathans arrived on a generational star ship. Apparently when they left they were planning on just taking over a primitive planet but by the time they got here everyone had caught up. So they parked their ship in orbit and live there.

Androids are manufactured by many species. When a mind artificial or biological, becomes complex enough it attracts or develops a soul and becomes truly sentient. They were relatively recently declared free sentient individuals but echos of android slavery still persist.

Vesk: vesk are from a different solar system. they conquered that one, tried to come and conquer this one. Fighting them off is what formed the pact worlds into the pact worlds. Then the swarm (killer bugs from outer space ala starship troopers) attacked both, so the vesk and pact teamed up.

Shirren: speaking of the swarm... some of them broke free of the hive mind and came to value independent freedom and choice. They came to the pact worlds asked for and received sanctuary from their nomnomnomicidal space locust relatives.

ysoki Were known as "ratfolk" on golarion and Akiton before the gap. I would be careful tossing that term around if you don't want someone decoupling your radiation safe guards while you're sleeping. We're not actually A species so much as a group of species that look enough like the rest of you to be lumped in together. Not surprisingly since we have like six kids at once, we've recovered from the loss of golarion with gusto and spread everywhere. Besides akiton there's no "ysoki planet", but we're 10% of the population EVERYWHERE including the idari, taking up jobs and living spaces no one else can fit in.

4) Indvidual items can fuse magic and technology. Magitech is a category of items, and a category of cybernetics. Lore wise, in the process of making it either magic or technology will be used in manufacture: whichever is more efficient. Like "remove all chemicals except water" is 56 chemical processes depending on whats in it, but just one easy spell you can put on an item. You can (and should) go to S Mart and buy a perfectly ordinary semi auto hand gun, and have the weird guy in the back with the crystals put an enchantment on it the same way you could get a key made. Magic items are consumer level goods. DR/magic is pretty useless, and ghosts aren't happy peasants can take them out now.

The fusions have less number crunching mechanical effects and more utilitarian bent. There's no generic +1 to hit, (there is some that helps if you're aiming or making an AOO), but mostly they disguise the weapon, return when thrown, appear in your hand with a whistle, or really hurt when they crit, let you use it as a grenade launcher etc.

5) "Pact worlds" would be the local solar system.

[dead]

Thanks so much for the info. That helps a lot. I’m wondering whether to jump on board with Starfinder.

When it originally came out, I wasn’t sure about it mainly because it used slightly different rules to Pathfinder (1E). My attitude was, if it’s in the same universe, it should use the same ruleset. I’m happy with the announcement that the next edition of Starfinder will use the same ruleset as Pathfinder 2E.

Is there anyone out there who has modified the current Starfinder rules to bring it back to the Pathfinder 1E ruleset?

Justin Norveg wrote:

...So we have no idea how far tech on Golarion has advanced.

With my first question, I wasn’t asking what level of tech Golarion would be at if we knew where it had disappeared to. I was asking at what rate would tech reasonably advance on Golarion? Would it advance at the same rate tech has advanced on Earth? Would it advance slower? Or would it advance faster? One could argue it might advance faster as you’re throwing magic into the mix which is really another power source like electricity or nuclear.

GURPS breaks down tech levels based on the real world:

-------------------

Tech Level 3 - Medieval (600 AD+)
Stirrups; oceangoing sailing ships (longships, roundships, etc.).
Steel weapons; early firearms; plate armor; castles.
Heavy horses and horse-collars; windmills.
Crude prosthetics; anatomical science.

Tech Level 4 - Age of Sail (1450 AD+)
Stagecoach; three-masted sailing ships; precise navigation.
Muskets and pikes; horse artillery; naval broadsides.
Improved windmills; belt drives; clockwork.
Optical microscope makes cells visible.

Tech Level 5 - Industrial Revolution (1730 AD+)
Steam locomotives; steamboats; early submersibles; balloons and early airships. Early repeating small arms; rifled cannon; ironclads.
Steam engines; direct current; batteries.
Germ theory of disease; safe anesthetics; vaccines.

Tech Level 6 - Mechanized Age (1880 AD+)
Automobiles; continental railways; ocean liners; submarines; aircraft.
Smokeless powder; automatic weapons; tanks; combat aircraft.
Steam turbines; internal combustion; alternating current; hydroelectricity. Antibiotics; blood typing and safe transfusions; heredity; biochemistry.

Tech Level 7 - Nuclear Age (1940 AD+)
Nuclear submarines; jet aircraft; helicopters; manned space flight.
Ballistic body armor; guided munitions; combat jets; nuclear weapons.
Gas turbines; fission; solar power.
Discovery of DNA; organ transplants; pacemakers.

Tech Level 8 - Digital Age (1980 AD+)
Satellite navigation; SSTO ("single stage to orbit") spacecraft.
Smartguns; blinding lasers; unmanned combat vehicles.
Fuel cells; advanced batteries. Genetically modified organisms; gene therapy; cloning.

Tech Level 9 - Microtech Age (2025 AD+)
Robot cars; space elevators; manned interplanetary space flight. Electrolasers; heavy laser weapons; battlesuits; combat robots; designer viruses.
Micro fuel cells; deuterium-hydrogen fusion; high-temperature superconductors. Human genetic engineering; tissue engineering; artificial wombs; cybernetic implants

Tech Level 10 - Robotic Age (2070 AD+)
Fast interplanetary space flight.
Compact laser and heavy particle-beam weapons; Gauss guns; nanotech armor; nanoviruses; antimatter bombs.
Aneutronic fusion; antimatter. Brain transplants; uploading; bioroids; uplifted animals.

-------------------

So… if the current year of Golarion in the Pathfinder setting is 4723, could we say that its tech level is about the equivalent of very late middle ages Earth, say 1500 AD? And, then, would it be reasonable to say tech advances at a similar rate as Earth from there? So, in 200 years on Golarion, we will have steam power across the globe (Industrial Revolution)? In 400 years will Golarion have railways and automatic weapons (Mechanized Age)? In 500 years will Golarion have nuclear weapons (Nuclear Age)?

Normally, we don’t think about this as most fantasy settings seem locked into their tech level (usually medieval/Renaisance). And, even if the heroes go into the future or the past by thousands of years, it’s still usually at roughly the same tech level as it always is - and we except this as it’s fantasy. But with Golarion, we know it advances in tech via the Starfinder line of books, so I thought it a reasonable question to consider.

[Rysky the Dark Solarion]

No, you trying to map the tech advancement is fruitless, since again Starfinder and Pathfinder are two SEPERATE timelines, one doesn’t lead into the other.

Also you would need to know the current tech than more or less making stuff up. We have airships and steamships and guns in Golarion, and Numeria gives them lasers and robots. The tech of the setting can’t be compared to a specific timeline on earth, they don’t map that way.

Also Earth exists in the Pathfinder setting, Anastasia from Russia is the current ruler of Irrisen.

[The Ragi]

Oddly enough, in SF there aren't +1 weapons.

[Driftbourne]

There's a conversion guide in the back of the core rule book. I've never played PF1e so no idea how well it works, but sounds like a lot of work.

The Gap eliminates the need for any tech/lore timeline between Pathfinder and Starfinder. Doing everything is a GURPS thing, not a Paizo thing. Paizo only makes two settings but goes supper deep into them.

Pathfinder Golarion is a kitchen sink, and Starfinder is a galaxy filled with kitchen sinks. There's no timeline of technology, but there are different locations with varying levels of tech, in Pathfinder that ranges from tribal mammoth hunters to steampunk and off-worked alien tech. That's tricky to pull off well, but Paizo does it very well. Anything could fit into the Starfinder setting without feeling out of place, but Paizo isn't trying to fill in every possible level of tech gap between Pathfinder and Starfinder.

[Justin Norveg]

dead wrote:

T. I was asking at what rate would tech reasonably advance on Golarion?

We wouldn't know the rate because we don't know what year it is in the universe relative to golarion. Best Guess is it would have been at the same tech level as the other pact worlds: On your scale that looks like a 9.5 (level 9 stuff is normal, level 10 stuff exists but is weird) Except spaceflight which is 10+ (because a Triune god of technolgy said here's the plans for a hyperspace engine have fun exploring the universe!)

Fictional fantasy societies tend to advance much slower than earth technology. Either because magic makes people not bother with technology, or some disaster or another keeps resetting society back to the dung ages. Or because writers want to have archeological mysteries without the 800 year old elf in the party go "The missing lost king of Xeryn? You mean Uncle Bob?"

I think the gap exists partially to not have to bother answering that question. So the answer is that there isn't an answer.

[John Mangrum]

Might be worth noting that page 126 of the Galaxy Exploration Manual discusses tech categories, listing examples of the types of technology expected to emerge in each of nine technological eras. It's general guidelines, not specific to Golarion, but it gives the general sense that:

* Pathfinder-era Golarion is in its Archaic Age (cat 1), with limited hotspots entering an Industrial Age (cat 2).

* Assorted hints and tidbits suggest that discrete outposts of tech development on Golarion were just starting to enter the Space Age (cat 3) when the Gap began.

* Starfinder-era galactic society is generally in the Drift Age (cat 8), with lower tech categories pretty common (but isolated) and a handful of known powers reaching the Intergalactic Age (cat 9) in various ways.

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Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:

No, you trying to map the tech advancement is fruitless, since again Starfinder and Pathfinder are two SEPERATE timelines, one doesn’t lead into the other.

When you say “separate timelines”, do you mean they are alternate realities?

I thought Paizo might have created the Gap so Starfinder didn’t step on the toes of Golarion’s possible future in the Pathfinder setting. If Starfinder presents an alternate reality, I wonder why they didn’t just keep Golarion in the solar system and flesh it out. It would be nice to visit a futuristic Golarion.

Nevertheless, I don’t think the effort to map the tech advancement for a custom game is fruitless. Pondering such gets the creative juices flowing and opens up so many opportunities. Adventures in different eras/genres of Golarion, time-travel opportunities, etc.

John Mangrum wrote:

Assorted hints and tidbits suggest that discrete outposts of tech development on Golarion were just starting to enter the Space Age (cat 3) when the Gap began.

This is interesting, at least we know then that Golarion got to early Space Age tech level. My task would be to then plot out the tech advancement over the years.

----------------

Oh… I had 2 more questions…

1) I was thinking of picking up the Iron Gods adventure path. Have the alien entities/robots from that adventure been officially mapped back to an origin point in the Starfinder universe?

2) Is time travel possible in Starfinder? With either magic or technology or both?

[Justin Norveg]

"Time travel forward is definitely possible and relatively easy. Back is legendarily difficult and not understood but it HAS happen.. "

another White mouse in a tattered cloak, eyepatch, and full of mad max armor appears.

"NOOO don't tell hi... crap. There goes this timeline. "

[CorvusMask]

I mean IG itself explains where the spaceship was from (it also being kinda nod at creative director's homebrew setting, so very much not showing up in starfinder)

And Pathfinder and Starfinder are AUs in the "Starfinder is a possible future for Pathfinder" way where they could connect, but there are enough clashing setting differences that they don't match one to one without really weird shenanigans.

[keftiu]

I also wanna point out that Golarion is hardly grounded in tech level during Pathfinder times, with non-magical clockwork capable of acting as autonomous robots and one lineage of firearm technology dating back thousands of years. There’s two nations with industrial factories, and several with gunpowder-equipped militaries.

Your Pathfinder character can feasibly be someone who was sentenced to the guillotine for printing anarchist propaganda. It’s not all faux-Tolkien medieval stasis, even before factoring in the nanomachines and the interplanetary travel.

[dead]

keftiu wrote:

I also wanna point out that Golarion is hardly grounded in tech level during Pathfinder times, with non-magical clockwork capable of acting as autonomous robots and one lineage of firearm technology dating back thousands of years. There’s two nations with industrial factories, and several with gunpowder-equipped militaries.

I think that would only mean tech advances even faster than normal (Earth equivalent) as those robots and firearms would eventually find their way out of those nations and spread across the realm.

Then magic may counter balance this and slow tech advancement to an Earth equivalent. So I think in 600 to 800 years Golarion would have achieved a “space age” type tech level and then the Gap occurs sometime after that.

[Calgon-3]

The simple answer is the Gap was a way to make a connection between the Pathfinder legacy and the Starfinder universe without having to create a thousand year (or whatever) setting backstory for Starfinder with inflexible history to tie it firmly to Pathfinder, and explain why there are rule changes between one game and the other. It leaves a conveniently undefined amount of room for development of adventure paths that can take place before or during the Gap, with either Pathfinder or Starfinder rules and classes, or a combination of them.

You could fit a whole different game in the Gap if you wanted, but Paizo doesn't seem to want to do that.

[BigNorseWolf]

I just don't get why the gap had to be universe wide.

[CorvusMask]

I mean... Do we know that for sure since we don't know what is in other galaxies?

I can't think of lot of confirmed effects of Gap on planes just because there aren't lot of planar stuff, maybe dawn of flame had something for fire plane?

[Calgon-3]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I just don't get why the gap had to be universe wide.

Same reason. Leaves room for adventure paths before the regular Starfinder setting.

[keftiu]

A setting-defining mystery that only impacted a single planet in the whole wide galaxy wouldn’t be that interesting, would it?

[BigNorseWolf]

keftiu wrote:

A setting-defining mystery that only impacted a single planet in the whole wide galaxy wouldn’t be that interesting, would it?

If an entire solar system losing their memories isn't sufficient mystery you may want to adjust your scooby senses.

[Xenocrat]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

keftiu wrote:

A setting-defining mystery that only impacted a single planet in the whole wide galaxy wouldn’t be that interesting, would it?

If an entire solar system losing their memories isn't sufficient mystery you may want to adjust your scooby senses.

That's just a random table result in Galactic Exploration Manual.

[keftiu]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

keftiu wrote:

A setting-defining mystery that only impacted a single planet in the whole wide galaxy wouldn’t be that interesting, would it?

If an entire solar system losing their memories isn't sufficient mystery you may want to adjust your scooby senses.

Why does the average Vesk care that the Pact Worlds forgot some time?

They wanted something that could hang over the whole of Starfinder the way Aroden’s death touched several continents in Pathfinder.

[BigNorseWolf]

keftiu wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

keftiu wrote:

A setting-defining mystery that only impacted a single planet in the whole wide galaxy wouldn’t be that interesting, would it?

If an entire solar system losing their memories isn't sufficient mystery you may want to adjust your scooby senses.

Why does the average Vesk care that the Pact Worlds forgot some time?

.

Dunno why the average englishman would care about the kings of egypt but it peeks enough interest to get a bunch of them down their in their pith hats.

[Metaphysician]

The Gap pretty much *has* to be universe-wide, or else it wouldn't work. The Golarion System is a major region of importance on a planar level, and also once interstellar travel became possible, it should equally be an important region on an interstellar level. If everyone in the solar system forgot 500 years of history, but everyone who had contact with and knowledge of them elsewhere retained it? This would very quickly mean "None of that 500 years would actually be forgotten anymore", not without a direly implausible conspiracy of silence.

That isn't even counting how, if only Golarion got hit with the Gap, it would put them at a crippling disadvantage versus every other society that *hasn't* suffered such a disruptive event. This would require some major juggling to make sure no one would be able or willing to take advantage of such a moment of weakness.

[BigNorseWolf]

Metaphysician wrote:

The Gap pretty much *has* to be universe-wide, or else it wouldn't work. The Golarion System is a major region of importance on a planar level

the signal doesn't happen till the end of the gap. So no one is interacting with the pact worlds on a meaningful level till the gap was over anyway.

[Xenocrat]

That's not true. There were planar based interstellar drives in use during the Gap and when it ended, and apparently some random colonies out there were seeded from the Pact Worlds during that time.

The Signal made interstellar travel cheap and ubiquitous, it didn't make it possible. Even if the number of interstellar ships was 1/1000 or 1/10000 pre-Signal there would have been plenty of colonies or contacted civilizations that knew the Pact Worlds before they lost their memories and records.

[John Mangrum]

The Gap also needs to be powerful enough to prevent the Pact Worlds' deities, who by and large are not located in the Pact Worlds, from being able to help explain it and/or fill in lost history.

[CorvusMask]

Eeeh I mean they just need to be unwilling to do it for Gap related reasons

[Metaphysician]

John Mangrum wrote:

The Gap also needs to be powerful enough to prevent the Pact Worlds' deities, who by and large are not located in the Pact Worlds, from being able to help explain it and/or fill in lost history.

The issue is less the deities ( there are plausible reasons that a circle of a few dozen people might keep a secret ), and more everyone *else* filling out the planes who have regularly interplanar contact with Golarion. And note that, on the scale that would matter for the purposes of the Gap, "regular" ranged down to "every few centuries". In particular, every planar being whose part of a structure where "regular intelligence reports" exist? Is already going to know way more than enough to compromise the purpose of the Gap. It doesn't do any good to wipe out all memory of 99% of trivial everyday affairs, if all the info in the heavenly and hellish equivalent of the CIA Worldbook still exists on Golarion. . . because that stuff is the important stuff that would have people, *inside and outside the fourth wall*, wanting to enact the Gap in the first place.