Greetings everyone!
I had a build idea for a Finesse Magus, may not be optimal but I wanted to see if it looked viable, had any glaring holes, or anyone just has some advice.
The background is that an Aldori outcaste, a half-elf that is spurned due to his elven heritage but still born into Aldori house. Without going too far into the fluff, here is the starting build.
Ancestry: Human
Heritage: Half-Elf
Background: Sword Scion (access to Dueling sword and RP reasons, but if rare wont fly than unconventional weaponry can cover this)
Class: Magus
Hybrid Study: Starlit Span
Starting Abilities: STR - 10 , DEX - 18 , CON - 14 , INT - 14 , WIS - 10 , CHA - 12
Skills: Acrobatics, Arcana, Diplomacy, Lore:Warfare, Society, Stealth
Ancestry Feat: Nimble Elf (Or Unconventional Weaponry (Dueling Sword)
The play style is that of a flashy, stylistic duelist. Thrower's Bandolier is a requirement, with shurikens due to reload 0. Moving around the battlefield throwing ranged Spellstrikes with the dueling sword reserved for when enemies close into melee, a true switch hitter. I really like the Gambit-esque feel of ranged Spellstrikes, but hate the concept of a standing turret, seems boring. Free Archetype is in play, going to start with Psychic(Tangible Dream) for the buffed Shield and Imaginary Weapon, and extra spell slots. Eventually going to also grab Rogue for Strong Arm and Sneak Attacker. Considered switching that order if I needed to drop Int to 12.
Slightly worried about my Ability array. With him being an Aldori I felt I HAD to take a bit in CHA, though mechanically it isn't all that useful. Perhaps for the occasional Bon Mot, but how often would that even land. Dumping WIS feels like a bad idea also. I know Expansive Spellstrike can be a trap, but it's particularly good with Starlit Span I think. Obviously base damage is low with STR 10, and shurikens rocking a d4, but theoretically the Spellstrikes will make up the difference, and STR will be increased as he levels. Looks really, really MAD. Could drop CON to 12 (risky) and CHA to bump WIS & STR to 12. Other thought was to flavor it as an Eldritch Scion, drop INT, pump CHA... but then Expansive Spellstrike is kaput. Also I had the Remaster in mind with the build, so focus points will be leaned on heavily.
Cannot really give the party composition as I dont know it yet.
Does this seem viable, or am I trying too hard to make finesse work?
Thank you in advance!
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I think going with starlit span and switch hitting is a good move. The charisma is unneeded. Probably better to go with a bit of strength since you're using thrown weapons. Definitely a workable concept though.
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You don't need to fell compelled to have a high Int or Cha just because the Magus and Aldori "templates" usually get it. You always can do an unconventional char like a casters that compensates it lack of natural talent with magic (low-int) learn to compensate and Aldori aren't Swashbucklers nothing stand that you need to be charismatic.
About have shurikens and a finesse weapon mix is very interesting and the spellstrike will help to compensate the lack of firepower of these weapons. About melee weapon I recommend you to take an thrownable finesse melee weapon to prevent you to double your expenses with runes.
If you really want an Aldori Dueling Sword you also need to talk with your GM. Some GMs may not consider Aldori Dueling Sword as qualified as Unconventional Weaponry due the term "common in another culture" is very relative.
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They'll need the 14 int for psychic dedication.
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Another fun thing you can do with shurikens is pick up striker's scroll and attach scrolls to individual shurikens. With throwers bandoliers, it's probably the most efficient way to use that feat.
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The sword scion background is a campaign background from the Kingmaker adventure path. If you're going to play that adventure path, it's probably fine, but otherwise I would not count too heavily on it being allowed.
That said, it looks like a fun build.
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I would have bumped strength instead of charisma. You still add your strength to damage with thrown weapons.
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aobst128 wrote: Another fun thing you can do with shurikens is pick up striker's scroll and attach scrolls to individual shurikens. With throwers bandoliers, it's probably the most efficient way to use that feat. If the GM allows Striker scroll to work with that bandolier then so should fused staff work with would be interesting.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions, been really helpful! Dumping Cha for Str, and maybe lowering Con to 12 for 12 Wis. I think I can pull it off being at range more often than not.
You know I never thought about Fused Ftaff with Throwers Bandolier... I'd considered ignoring it as it wont be reliable on the sword, but that is an interesting option. Guess it depends on how the GM rules between Strikers Scroll on individual shurikens vs Fused Staff on the bandolier as a whole. RAW I dont think it'll fly, but it's unique that it can be runed so it's worth an ask.
Feat-wise, leaning:
1) Magus Analysis(from Natural Ambition, pairs nicely with Cognative Crossover)
2) Expansive Spellstrike
4) Strikers Scroll
6) Knowledge is Power (wanted AoO, but being at range often might make it unnecessary)
8) Fused Staff* (or Standby Spell)
10) Spell Parry
12) Overwhelming Spellstrike
14) Preternatural Parry
16) Dispelling Spellstrike
18) Versatile Spellstrike
20) Supreme Spellstrike
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Dragonhearthx wrote: aobst128 wrote: Another fun thing you can do with shurikens is pick up striker's scroll and attach scrolls to individual shurikens. With throwers bandoliers, it's probably the most efficient way to use that feat. If the GM allows Striker scroll to work with that bandolier then so should fused staff work with would be interesting. It doesn't need to work with the bandoliers specifically. Attaching the scrolls to the shurikens works as intended. The bandoliers just make shurikens more viable as a weapon.
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OP, how do you see your character's rounds ?
IME Starlit Span is True Strike + Spellstrike followed by Recharge + Spellstrike ad nauseam.
With, sometimes, a Recharge + 2 actions round if you want to do the True Strike + Spellstrike again.
So, very much a standing turret style of combat.
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I guess I am envisioning an opening Spellstrike salvo followed by magus analysis. When the enemy closes to melee, Sword Spellstrike and stride away if they're still standing, or Shield if my party could finish it off. That would be the jist, swapping from ranged to melee depending on the enemy movement. I also can't see having enough true strikes to spam it reliably, without fused staff working on a bandolier. Would save them for tougher encounters.
I also built this in theory based on an Aldori theme, and have always wanted to play a Magus. My first two characters I ended up with a fighter and champion because the party just needed a tougher frontliner, but now I just want to play what I want. Haven't tried or seen one in practice, and what you mentioned is something I'm afraid of... if that rotation is all I would end up doing, I'd rather rethink the character and subclass. Range spellstrike seems awesome but just repeating that and recharge ad nauseum sounds boring.
I considered Laughing Shadow, finesse would likely be out but maybe that's the direction I should lean for a flashy Magus. Or Twisting Tree.
aobst128 wrote: Dragonhearthx wrote: aobst128 wrote: Another fun thing you can do with shurikens is pick up striker's scroll and attach scrolls to individual shurikens. With throwers bandoliers, it's probably the most efficient way to use that feat. If the GM allows Striker scroll to work with that bandolier then so should fused staff work with would be interesting. It doesn't need to work with the bandoliers specifically. Attaching the scrolls to the shurikens works as intended. The bandoliers just make shurikens more viable as a weapon. Yes, by "attaching" the runes of the bandolier to the thrown weapon. So wouldn't it be the same for talismans (aka stiker scroll). I was think it could work with fused staff. If not that's cool. Save fused staff for the melee weapon.
Psychic Dedication is so freaking overturned its actually insane it went to print the way that it did, choosing that for your FA was the right move for sure.
The build looks fine to me, in fact, I'd say it looks good to go once you move one of your Abi Bumps from Con to Cha to qualify for the Archetype.
One thing to bear in mind though, is if you don't find a way to pick up Quick Draw or Quick Shot (Via Archer Archetype) you are absolutely going to feel the pain in the Action Economy by trying to switch-hit in combat after making a Strike and moving away since the Magus is already SUPER tight when it comes to "extra" Actions during a turn so I might suggest early on trying to look at them more like a Character that can do EITHER effective Ranged or Melee in a single combat rather than actually trying to do both because ever time you do so you usually, at best, going to be dropping your Weapon on the ground where an enemy can just pick it up and burning another Action to grab your Ranged Weapon or eating two full Actions stowing your Sword and drawing your Bow.
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Alkarius wrote: I guess I am envisioning an opening Spellstrike salvo followed by magus analysis. When the enemy closes to melee, Sword Spellstrike and stride away if they're still standing, or Shield if my party could finish it off. That would be the jist, swapping from ranged to melee depending on the enemy movement. I also can't see having enough true strikes to spam it reliably, without fused staff working on a bandolier. Would save them for tougher encounters.
I also built this in theory based on an Aldori theme, and have always wanted to play a Magus. My first two characters I ended up with a fighter and champion because the party just needed a tougher frontliner, but now I just want to play what I want. Haven't tried or seen one in practice, and what you mentioned is something I'm afraid of... if that rotation is all I would end up doing, I'd rather rethink the character and subclass. Range spellstrike seems awesome but just repeating that and recharge ad nauseum sounds boring.
I considered Laughing Shadow, finesse would likely be out but maybe that's the direction I should lean for a flashy Magus. Or Twisting Tree.
Note that you will need to Recharge your Spellstrike if Magus analysis is not successful.
And the drawing a weapon issue outlined by TMS holds true.
Building a real switch-hitter on a Starlit Span Magus sounds like a worthy endavour, but it needs more in-depth analysis of actions and situations than the basic standing turret.
RK Magus with lots of Additional Lores might be fun.
I find some variety in my Starlit Span build by using Cleric MC to access more damage types through alignment and positive damage. I aim at always using the relevant damage type on my enemy.
If you use a melee Magus, you could indeed use your spells and cantrips for the ranged part and your Spellstrike for melee.
Themetricsystem wrote: The build looks fine to me, in fact, I'd say it looks good to go once you move one of your Abi Bumps from Con to Cha to qualify for the Archetype. Psychic Dedication requires a Intelligence 14 or Charisma 14: as they have an Int of 14, what do they need a 14 Cha for?
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Dragonhearthx wrote: aobst128 wrote: Dragonhearthx wrote: aobst128 wrote: Another fun thing you can do with shurikens is pick up striker's scroll and attach scrolls to individual shurikens. With throwers bandoliers, it's probably the most efficient way to use that feat. If the GM allows Striker scroll to work with that bandolier then so should fused staff work with would be interesting. It doesn't need to work with the bandoliers specifically. Attaching the scrolls to the shurikens works as intended. The bandoliers just make shurikens more viable as a weapon. Yes, by "attaching" the runes of the bandolier to the thrown weapon. So wouldn't it be the same for talismans (aka stiker scroll). I was think it could work with fused staff. If not that's cool. Save fused staff for the melee weapon. The talisman system is separate from the rune system. Transferring runes from the bandolier to the shurikens wouldn't prevent using talismans or striker's scroll.
Themetricsystem wrote: Psychic Dedication is so freaking overturned its actually insane it went to print the way that it did, choosing that for your FA was the right move for sure.
The build looks fine to me, in fact, I'd say it looks good to go once you move one of your Abi Bumps from Con to Cha to qualify for the Archetype.
One thing to bear in mind though, is if you don't find a way to pick up Quick Draw or Quick Shot (Via Archer Archetype) you are absolutely going to feel the pain in the Action Economy by trying to switch-hit in combat after making a Strike and moving away since the Magus is already SUPER tight when it comes to "extra" Actions during a turn so I might suggest early on trying to look at them more like a Character that can do EITHER effective Ranged or Melee in a single combat rather than actually trying to do both because ever time you do so you usually, at best, going to be dropping your Weapon on the ground where an enemy can just pick it up and burning another Action to grab your Ranged Weapon or eating two full Actions stowing your Sword and drawing your Bow.
The suggested build wields both ranged and melee simultaneously. No need to drop or quick draw anything
aobst128 wrote: The talisman system is separate from the rune system. Transferring runes from the bandolier to the shurikens wouldn't prevent using talismans or striker's scroll. No I mean putting a talisman on the bandolier which then goes to the weapon.
Dragonhearthx wrote: aobst128 wrote: The talisman system is separate from the rune system. Transferring runes from the bandolier to the shurikens wouldn't prevent using talismans or striker's scroll. No I mean putting a talisman on the bandolier which then goes to the weapon. That would be kinda pointless when you can just put them on the weapons and have one for each.
aobst128 wrote: Dragonhearthx wrote: aobst128 wrote: The talisman system is separate from the rune system. Transferring runes from the bandolier to the shurikens wouldn't prevent using talismans or striker's scroll. No I mean putting a talisman on the bandolier which then goes to the weapon. That would be kinda pointless when you can just put them on the weapons and have one for each. Because depending of what talisman you have you might not get the trigger thus you lost the weapon and talisman until you go and pick it up. There's also if the ability is for the rest of the turn, you just literally threw away the one thing that had the effect.
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I've played a switch hitter magus with Starlit Span using Monk dedication. It worked pretty well. Flurry at level 10, and not having to draw my fists, makes a key difference in action economy.
Regarding being a "turret" - it didn't happen to me. While I could have tried to do that, very often it was more valuable to go into melee next to the fighter, to protect the back row casters.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
My only criticism is that Aldori's aren't born. It is a name you take when you swear the Aldori Swordpact.
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Themetricsystem wrote: ... One thing to bear in mind though, is if you don't find a way to pick up Quick Draw or Quick Shot (Via Archer Archetype) you are absolutely going to feel the pain in the Action Economy ... Free hand + melee weapon + thrower's bandolier full of shuriken has no action economy problems to fix with Quick Draw. Shuriken do not require a separate action to draw.
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I also heard a Magus Switchgitter concept starting with laughing Shadow and starting with eldritch Archer in lvl 6
Admittedly it's a Problem that it comes online rather late and ist more limited in the choice of weapons
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Oh I never imagined a an Eldritch Archer Magus. This really opens many possibilities for versatile builds.
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