Can Counter Element be used to counteract a non-magical effect, such as an alchemist's bomb? If so, how does that work exactly?
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Trigger You're targeted by or in the area of an effect that has the trait matching your kinetic element and originates from an enemy or hazard.
I would still count a bomb as being an effect that came from an enemy.
Taking fire damage from weather or environment is an example of something that wouldn't qualify.
What is slightly strange is that you can't use it to protect yourself from an AoE effect from an ally.
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The problem with that is that Strikes don't inherit traits of the items used.
Which leads to questioning why bombs and runes have damage traits in the first place, since you don't use them when attacking with them.
Can you throw an Alchemist's Fire underwater?
Can you use a Flaming Longsword underwater?
If the answer is, 'technically yes, but the attack wouldn't have any of the fire damage', then I would say that the Fire trait is still at least partially active for the Strikes made. And at that point, the Fire damage part of those attacks would qualify for Counter Element.
Can you throw an Alchemist's Fire underwater?
Can you use a Flaming Longsword underwater?
Yes you can.
If the answer is, 'technically yes, but the attack wouldn't have any of the fire damage',
Everything underwater has fire resist 5. That's a separate effect.
That isn't the aquatic combat effect that I was referencing.
Use these rules for battles in water or underwater:
* You’re flat-footed unless you have a swim Speed.
* You gain resistance 5 to acid and fire.
* You take a –2 circumstance penalty to melee slashing or bludgeoning attacks that pass through water.
* Ranged attacks that deal bludgeoning or slashing damage automatically miss if the attacker or target is underwater, and piercing ranged attacks made by an underwater creature or against an underwater target have their range increments halved.
* You can’t cast fire spells or use actions with the fire trait underwater.
* At the GM’s discretion, some ground-based actions might not work underwater or while floating.
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Nothing in that bolded sentence makes you unable to swing a flaming Longsword.
The Action (Strike) doesn't have the fire trait.
Damage from the rune would be almost completely negated due to everything having fire resist 5, but that's irrelevant of the trait.
Yeah, if only Flame Oracles and Fire Kineticists are hobbled by fighting underwater and Fighters with Flaming runes and Alchemists throwing Alchemist's Fire are unaffected, then having Fire Kineticist unable to use Counter Element against those Flaming runes and Alchemist's Fire would at least be consistent.
But I am not sure how common of a rule interpretation that is. Underwater Combat rules seem to imply that fire simply isn't available. It may not be strict RAW, but it is something that I would expect to see - that Alchemist's Fire can be thrown, but won't do any damage, and Flaming longswords can be swung, but the fire damage won't happen at all. Because while the Strike action doesn't have the fire trait, the damage effect that it is producing does. And at that point, you should be able to use Counter Element against those same damage effects from Strike.
That's the reason I was proposing those questions - because those answers inform the answer to Counter Elements. And they may be different at different tables.
The question about Conduct Energy is different because it is specifically looking at the action used by the player rather than any effects that that action may have caused. So in either ruling scenario the answer should be 'no'. Which doesn't make a very good decision making question.
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Striking with bombs is different than Striking with a weapon.
When you Strike with a bomb, you are Activating the Item. The item's traits apply as normal for that Strike, so you could counteract it just fine. The counteract rank and DC would be that of the item, or for an Alchemist with the right feats, the level and DC of the Alchemist.
As a side note, this does mean that an Alchemist fire doesn't work underwater, mainly since it requires oxygen for the chemicals to combust, but also because the bomb has the Fire trait.
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The problem with that is that Strikes don't inherit traits of the items used.Which leads to questioning why bombs and runes have damage traits in the first place, since you don't use them when attacking with them.
EDIT: On second thought, my thoughts on the "why" are better left unsaid publicly. Maybe it's too late and someone has already quoted my first post but I sort of hope not.
As for the whole Fiery Weapon underwater thing, I VERY much still believe that was the WRONG CALL much like how you're not allowed to use Dex for Trip when using a Finesse Weapon with the Trip trait. It would have been better and more consistent to just update the rules that implied you couldn't swing the weapon in the first place rather than completely undoing the entire mechanical connection between Weapon Traits and the end-effect/use of said Weapons, like graystone said, as it stands now they really don't serve much of a purpose at all anymore.
That isn't the aquatic combat effect that I was referencing.
Use these rules for battles in water or underwater:
* You’re flat-footed unless you have a swim Speed.
* You gain resistance 5 to acid and fire.
* You take a –2 circumstance penalty to melee slashing or bludgeoning attacks that pass through water.
* Ranged attacks that deal bludgeoning or slashing damage automatically miss if the attacker or target is underwater, and piercing ranged attacks made by an underwater creature or against an underwater target have their range increments halved.
* You can’t cast fire spells or use actions with the fire trait underwater.
* At the GM’s discretion, some ground-based actions might not work underwater or while floating.
This is specifically why trait inheritance was removed from the game fwiw.
So...any kineticist with a fire gate cannot use any of their Impulses underwater?
When you use Channel Elements, it gains ALL the traits of the elements you possess. If one of them is Fire, then per the rule quoted by breithauptclan above, you can't use Channel Elements underwater. If you can't Channel Elements, you can't use your Impulses.
It seems to me that the mundane effect of "water" just countered the elements. LOL.
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So...any kineticist with a fire gate cannot use any of their Impulses underwater?
Pyrokinetics can explicitly use their fire trait abilities while underwater. It's right there in the description of kinetic gate.
Well, carry on then! :P