Good “Knight” style class / archetype / other options, from any source? d20, 3e or PF

[moppom]

As title.

Hoping for something fairly simple and close to a Fighter for a very new player, so an archetype might suit..?

However, I would like to see a decent Will save, and something that involves Charisma mattering at all. Oh, and at least 4+Int skill points would probably help, along with appropriate class skills, I guess?

A bit less Fighter-y and a bit more .. Knight-y? Focus on a mount not required, or even wanted really.

Thanks in advance.

[Gol Golarion]

Are you familiar with the Cavalier? It's almost exactly what you're describing, though charisma matters less for them than a paladin and their will could be better. Order of the Lion might be a good place to start, and I personally like the Daring Champion archetype for getting rid of the mount.

https://aonprd.com/ClassDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cavalier

[Melkiador]

I’m currently home brewing a class intended to be very simple. It’s not really meant to be a “knight” but that’s more of a theme than a play style. It’s passively good at charisma and has an ok will save as it progresses.

Basic Paragon

It may change a little as I keep tweaking it. It has been suggested that it could have 4 skill points per level.

[Temperans]

So paladin?

Is there a specific type of knight? Getting "just a knight" is can be got just by getting full plate, but more specific forms can help narrow things down.

Ex: Kinetic Knight Kineticist to go more "Jedi". While Faceless Enforcer and Masked Maiden Vigilante are more "Never/rarely take off the suit" types.

[Sysryke]

Temperans wrote:

So paladin?

Is there a specific type of knight? Getting "just a knight" is can be got just by getting full plate, but more specific forms can help narrow things down.

Ex: Kinetic Knight Kineticist to go more "Jedi". While Faceless Enforcer and Masked Maiden Vigilante are more "Never/rarely take off the suit" types.

Second for the Paladin. What the OP describes is exactly the Paladin class. Original Paladin were heavily influenced by and modeled on Arthurian Knights. The only real change has been to bring them into the fold of the various deities of the many settings over the years. Depending on your deity and/or archetype choices, you can lean into the religious champion as much or little as you choose. Mechanically though, the Paladin is exactly what you described. If you don't want spells or any divine overtones, then Cavalier or Samurai is your answer, but Charisma doesn't matter quite as much for those unless you build with it in mind.

[Tom Sampson]

You should not be recommending Kineticist to a new player. Come on. That class is a bit of a mess of convoluted mechanical interactions.

I would honestly recommend the Paladin, perhaps the Tempered Champion archetype if you want to trade out spellcasting for feats, although I think having Paladin spellcasting is okay because the player doesn't have to cast spells until he wants to, and he gets to learn a variety of game mechanics without being overwhelmed. It only gets 2+int skills, but if you play a Human Paladin and put your favored class bonus into skills (which is advised, because the Paladin is good at self-healing and staying alive but has poor skills), you get 4+int skills (and a much-appreciated bonus feat for being Human). You can also put a feat into Cunning if you want another skill per level. The Paladin very much lends itself to a virtuous knight sort of character, involves charisma, and has a good will save, even if you were to dump wisdom (which is honestly a reasonable call for a Paladin).

If he takes the weapon divine bond (which is a popular choice) instead of the mount bond, he won't have a mount either.

[Mysterious Stranger]

I have to agree with paladin especially for a new player. The paladin excels at defensive abilities without having to do much. For a new player this can be a huge benefit. Combine this with Lay on Hands for in combat healing and you have a very forgiving class. A paladin can survive rookie mistakes that might otherwise kill a character of another class. The paladin’s limited resources start of low which gives the player a bit of time to learn how to manage them. They get a lot of different resources but are spread out, so the player gradually gets exposure to them instead of being overwhelmed.

The only downside is the alignment restrictions and the chance of falling. Make sure the player is well aware of this so they can avoid losing all the advantages of the class. I would avoid trading out spell casting, so the player gets an introduction to spells without it being the main focus of the character. The only downside is the low number of skill points but a human with favored class bonus into skills can cover that. If you can squeeze out a 12 INT you can get the skill ranks up to 5 per level this way.

[Temperans]

I only used the kineticist as an example to make a point that just saying "knight" can have widely different result depending on the specifics.

[Tom Sampson]

As for the Code of Conduct, I would note that the Paladin is only required to respect legitimate authority, act with honor, help those in need, and punish those who threaten or harm innocents.

I would make a common sense exemption for situations beyond the Paladin's control, and I would note that the Paladin is only required to be honorable and respect legitimate authority (ie. an evil, incompetent, or fraudulent authority would not require respect). He is not required to be zealot for enforcing the law, and he is not required to spare evildoers who surrender (indeed, the paladin is obligated to punish evildoers), nor is he required to bring people to jail just because they demand a trial. He can exercise judgment in favor of doing the right thing, and if doing the right and honorable thing requires him to break or ignore a law, he wouldn't fall for doing that. If you need to bust down the door of some evil cultists to bring them to justice, you're not about to fall for breaking and entering a legal residence without a warrant.

And even if he does do something inappropriate enough to fall (ie. playing Robin Hood and committing theft just because the poor deserve the money more or assaulting an innocent because your Paladin panicked and was caught in a bad situation - note that self-defense is still okay), you can arrange an Atonement quest to get him his powers back.

[Dragonchess Player]

Sysryke wrote:

What the OP describes is exactly the Paladin class. Original Paladin were heavily influenced by and modeled on Arthurian Knights.

The word paladin was a title given to close retainers in old French and is derived from the Latin 'palatinus' ("of the palace"). The 12 peers of Charlemagne were referred to as paladins.

The D&D/AD&D paladin is primarily based on Holger Carlsen (Ogier the Dane) from the novel Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Anderson (1961). Note that the novel is also the source of the D&D/AD&D holy avenger, nixie, and troll; it also, along with the Elric novels by Moorcock, influenced the Law/Chaos alignment structure. [/lingustic and RPG history]

For a "knight," there are quite a few classes that can be used: cavalier, fighter, paladin, ranger (mounted combat style), etc.; even casters like cleric, druid, occultist, summoner, warpriest, etc. All that's really needed is a way to gain an animal companion/eidolon/mount (either via a class feature, variant multiclassing, or the Nature Soul/Animal Ally feats; Boon Companion might also be desired) and investing in the Mounted Combat feat chain.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

I'm going to second the cavalier and daring champion archetype.

[moppom]

Tethered Champion looks good, as do some of the other options. Great stuff, thanks!